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  1. 7 points
    Well, obviously he'd be acquired to play center.
  2. 6 points
    Subban (You did say Who SHOULD be Captain? Not who could be captain?)
  3. 6 points
  4. 5 points
    I was actually listening to a Craig Custance podcast with Lawrence Gilman, who used to be the Canucks A.GM, and was hired by the league to help with the expansion draft rules. Basically, GMs made rules... and then he did an excercise where he looked at every team, looked at who they were likely to protect and projected what the rules would mean and what Vegas would look like. He mentioned a few things. 1) the original draft of the rules was even more generous to vegas. It required teams to put a certain amount of salary exposed, it would have made them even better as better players were exposed. The process he went through made the rules tougher on Vegas. 2) McPhee started to make his deals with teams at the trade deadline. This really helped them. These deals were registered with the league, but not announced. This was so if a GM got fired between the end of the season and the expansion draft, the deal would still be in place with the new regime. 3) One thing Gilman said would really hurt Vegas would be teams trading away players prior to expansion. Sort of like our Beaulieu to Buffalo deal. Guys one team couldnt' protect but another team could. This happened in a few cases, but not as many as Gilman anticipated. The really smart thing McPhee did was "The Pledge". Any team he made a deal with to take one of their players... or things like that... he forced them to agree that they would not make any other deals of this type to circumvent protection lists. This helped him keep as many players available as possible. 4) He leveraged his cap space and used it as a weapon. Taking on contracts like David Clarkson and Mikhail Grabovski in order to get better deal from the Blue Jackets and Islanders. Gilman thought a team might do that, but he praised McPhee as he got absolute max value out of doing it. 5) He built a team. He didn't just take the best players available necessarily, but he focused on a real concept of what he wanted from his team from day 1.... that concept was speed. 6) He maxed out on the number of D he was allowed to draft under the rules. Because of the rules, D were the best assets available. 7) It was one team of expansion, so he was able to plan his picks very methodically. He didn't have to worry about a second expansion team competing for the same group of players, like previous two team expansions had to. This allowed him and Vegas to keep running the same scenario over and over and absolutely maximize every asset they would get out of the draft. Gilman's main takeaway was that McPhee did an absolutely perfect job under the rules. He basically didn't make one bad move. At the same time he took advantage of team's like Florida and Columbus and Minnesota who gave him extra assets not to take their players. He felt teams overreacted to losing one player, and should have just lost that player and not made these multi-asset trades. The last thing (and this is important for the Habs), teams only had one year to plan for expansion. They didn't know the rules. Now GMs have 2-3 years to know what they will be facing, and can manipulate their rosters well in advance. This wasn't from Gilman, but my on though on how this applies to two players on the Habs... Kotkaniemi and Suzuki. The Habs are better off putting Suzuki in the OHL, where he won't accumulate a year of pro experience... and Kotkaniemi in Finland... where he won't accumulate a year of pro experience (he would in the AHL)... under the old expansion draft rules. Depending when Seattle comes in, this is the difference between protecting the players or them being exempt from the draft and giving us more protection slots.
  5. 5 points
    Ah, too bad zero isn't an option.
  6. 4 points
    This discussion is ridiculous. Now we're being told that the 2014 or 2015 teams were "28th overall teams" - a bizarre conflation of basic realities in order to save some kind of pathetic and desperate narrative that MB is a good GM. How about this. HE TURNED A TEAM THAT CAME WITHIN TWO GAMES OF THE FINALS (2014) AND FINISHED 2ND OVERALL (2015) into the living hunk of festering shit you see today. That's what his incredible leadership has brought us. He DID have a team on the cusp of true contention. The results proved this. Its key core pieces (all inherited) were young. Pleks and Markov were aging and anyone could see they would need replacing within 2-3 years. HE dismantled it for no reason that survives rational scrutiny. HE failed to add to the good core that was there. HE failed to plan to replace the aging veterans that obviously needed replacing. His big "solution" (trading Subban) solved ZERO actual problems and made the team older and worse. This team is garbage right now for one reason and one reason only: Marc Bergevin. In the hands of a competent GM, the Subban/Patches/Price core would be in the middle of its prime Cup window. Right frigging now. Has he learned from his mistakes and is now building a team properly? Hey, the next few years will tell that tale. But wheezing on about how the team was always bad, or how finishing 28th was all part of his genius master plan, is simply preposterous.
  7. 4 points
    If the GM has a core that comes within two games of the Finals, it's HIS job to elevate that core, not blow it up.
  8. 4 points
    Teams don't trade #1s... You were never getting Cody Glass, you were never getting Casey Mittelstadt, You were never getting Elias Pettersson. These are guys I would look at as 1As. They were never the guys we discussed at the deadline either. Suzuki is in the same class as the guys we talked about at the deadline.... Robert Thomas was in the 20s... Gabe Vilardi was in the 20s.... Sam Steel is in the 30s....Morgan Frost is in this area.... These are the guys I was looking at back in those trade deadline posts, and its exactly the kind of guy that we got. I never thought we'd hit the surefire #1 C with pacioretty. Teams just don't trade those, and if they do, its not for a winger.
  9. 4 points
    Glad to hear you and Max's physiotherapist's hand has healed!
  10. 4 points
    Just walked passed Max Domi in Toronto. I circled back and wished him a good season, "go habs." He thanked me and complimented my beard. Nice encounter, 8/10, would recommend.
  11. 3 points
    It always boggles my mind when fighters feel the need to fight in the preseason. Deslauriers is well-established as a fighter; he doesn't need to prove that part of his game to anyone so why engage with a minor league guy?
  12. 3 points
    While I agree that having nothing but Bergevin can be tiresome (there’s not much else at the moment) aren’t passive aggressive insults more detrimental to the forum than that? No matter what side you’re on in this discussion I’m pretty sure we’re all capable of steering away from it. The truth of the matter is that if the Habs were a powerhouse right now, we’d all be hunky dory, but they aren’t. So we’re boiling over a little as a fan base. I don’t think it’s really each other we’re mad at, it’s the the state of the team - and the state of the team is a result of the manager, so here we are. The reason you’re only seeing MB bashing is because there’s next to nothing new happening. When the season starts, I’m sure we’ll have a lot more to talk about. So the constant MB bashing will be just one of many topics.
  13. 3 points
    The sky has already fallen, my friend. The team is a piece of crap. And with a good GM, it would not be so.
  14. 3 points
    Our billet kid is heading up to Calgary for the Hitmen training camp this weekend. Good kid, and he's fitting in well. They make 15 year old kids big now. He's 5'11", and there are a couple of kids over 6' on his team. When I was 15, I think I was 5'6 or so...as fate would have it, I had my growth spurt AFTER high school. He's been on the ice with the squirt kids at a couple of practice sessions, as his coach ran a "graduating to squirt" weekend camp this summer. Speaking of squirts, things are about to get busy as my son tries out for a competitve team. The "skills and drills" as they call it is a solid two weeks of skating. He's already surpassed my expectation of him, so I just hope he continues to have fun out there. He was on a dominant team last year, so very few losses to deal with (they lost 4 out of 48 games), so it'll be interesting to see how he deals with adversity this year.
  15. 2 points
    Gotta agree, wouldnt equate you with a couple of others who tend to be over the top cynical about anything or everything Habs-related, wouldnt be fair as you are objective about most things Hab and NHL prospects for sure.
  16. 2 points
    There were 280 fights last season with 227 games featuring fights. 10 years prior there were 664 fights with 473 fights with games. League revenue has close to doubled in the past 10 years. Ratings averaged around 1.8 million viewers last season for Hockey Night in Canada. That number was around a 1 million in 2008. Now pre-lockout it was around 1.9 million, so we're back to the numbers it was getting back then. And back then, there were 789 fights in the season. And back then, there was a lot less to watch and it was easier to get an audience share than now. There were less fights this season than the 12-13 shortened season. By 67. Fighting is dropping at an alarming rate but ratings are up, revenue has doubled, and as new arenas with more seats are built, the league keeps filling them for the most part.
  17. 2 points
    Certainly a possibility - actually, that would make the lines make a lot more sense... Tatar - Danault - Gallagher Drouin - Kotkaniemi - Armia Byron - Plekanec - Ward Shinkaruk - McCarron - Scherbak
  18. 2 points
    I’ll just say the best hockey I watch is the Olympics and no fighting is tolerated. End of discussion.
  19. 2 points
    Wow, I got a poll to work! Hooray
  20. 2 points
    Eh, the entire jist of that is referees need to be tougher on players and call everything while DOPS needs to deliver harsher suspensions and fines. I personally would be good with people reviewing a game afterwards and delivering fines for calls that were missed. Were you hacking at a players wrist and the ref didn't see? Cool, you are still getting punished for it. In my mind some of the hits from behind and headshots, I would have given full season or half season suspensions and the league thought they were being tough with a 5 game. 5 games is a vacation. I want real punishments. And until we see real punishments, people and players will have this stupid vigilante justice viewpoint.
  21. 2 points
    It’s easy to look at a screen in our living room and say fighting is either necessary, entertaining, futile, or atrocious but what’s transpiring on the ice is often quite different than what we perceive. When I watch the 4th round of Wimbledon in tennis and one of the players isn’t playing up to their standard, it can be easy to overlook the often invisible reality that the player may be injured. We can’t see it from our living room, but the player is feeling the pain. That’s something that watching on television wouldn’t do justice. The same thing happens in hockey, actually. When the year finishes, we often hear of players having dealt with and played through week long fractures, for instance. Often these same players were criticized for not playing well. This type of thing ties in with a viewer’s perception of fighting. When you’re a professional NHL player on the ice and someone is chirping personal insults immediately after having chopped your ankle with their stick, it’s easy for a viewer to say that player A didn’t want to fight so he shouldn’t have to. Maybe that same viewer doesn’t know all the details; all they see is the end result. In the real world, these situations are no different. If someone were to take a crowbar and wack you on the ankle while calling your soulmate pretty, a fight may ensue. In no other sport do we have actual weapons that can be used against another player. If a player takes a slap shot at you after the whistle, a scrum will likely ensue. If a pitcher throws a ball at a batter, a fight sometime ensues. If a basketball player were to purposely elbow an opponent in the back of the head, or throw a basketball at their opponent, a fight would probably ensue. These incidents happen more often in hockey. When I was around 23 and still played hockey, my team was in the final and a player cross checked me in the back of the neck from behind right at the final buzzer. I left the ice right away and didn’t even shake hands but I’m pretty sure one of my teammates went after him and would have dropped the gloves. In this case I’m not sure the other guy was willing and they probably didn’t go beyond a wrestling match but I’m not sure how we can accept the fact that it’s fine to say that the opponent should only have to drop the gloves if he wants to in that situation. Regardless of what people say about the refs, that’s immediately when people will start taking liberties knowing they will face no repercussions. In the case of Domi, Eklbad was doing what every 13 year old is taught by their coach and smiling right in Domi’s frustrated face while “electing” not to fight. Who knows what else he was doing or saying that’s not visible from our television set and apparently Eklbad was indeed taking other liberties throughout the game. The outcome was the worst part, and Domi deserved to be suspended. Demanding that he absolutely should have been suspended for regular season games is going overboard.
  22. 2 points
    I used to love hockey fights. But once you take concussions seriously, they become impossible to support IMHO. I think the idea of hockey as a combination of speed and physicality is what sells tickets. 'Physicality' needn't mean fights. Frankly, I doubt that anyone is shilling out for the high price of tickets today *primarily* because they think there might be a fight or two. And I never heard anyone come out of a good, close, intense hockey game saying it sucked that there were no fights. Besides all of that, I'm actually not convinced you need the 'physicality' element at ALL. Soccer, basketball, and baseball have no integral physical element and they seem to do all right. Heck, soccer in Seattle - faked injuries and all - outdraws the average crowd at a hockey game. Even if hockey banned bodychecking (which could conceivably be the end game of all this concussion awareness) it would still be at least as exciting as those other sports.
  23. 2 points
    I am happy to see Peca on back to backs. So happy that Hudon and Lehkonen are in the same line If Ouellet is able to shine while playing with Despres, he would notch up in my D depth list I missed hockey so much!
  24. 2 points
    Human garbage seems excessive, but Domi’s actions shouldn’t be defended either in my opinion. You don’t drop the glove and clock someone who clearly isn’t engaging in the fight. If you want him to retaliate, make him angry by playing hard hockey, and I don’t know, maybe scoring a few goals? It was dirty, and should keep him out of all remaining preseason. Also doesn’t make him human garbage. He was losing, lost his temper, and made a mistake. We’ve probably all done worse.
  25. 2 points
    My god that's the softest crap I've heard. Hockey is a physical game. If a guy is throwing big clean checks and you can't accept it, you shouldn't play. Fighting is illegal. There's a penalty for it. Nobody should be resorting to illegal play because of your legal play. And if the checks are high? The referee is the one who should do something. This is the same crap expressed in baseball. Playing too well? Someone has to bean you so you stop making pitchers look bad. It's pathetic. Your job is to play hockey, not illegally play hockey because someone is mad that you're playing too good of hockey.
  26. 2 points
    Seriously? So you just used your keyboard to 'sucker punch' a young hockey player? I wouldn't even call what Domi did a sucker punch. He was looking Ekblad right in the ey (or at least the chin) Ekblad, the much bigger player, could have defended himself. So we have a young hockey player, who is willing to play tough and we call him human garbage? Wow! Welcome to Montreal, where we throw Habs players under the bus!!! Terrible.
  27. 2 points
    His article says it all.. total character.. the right type of character this team needs. Without reading into it. https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/nhl-max-pacioretty-were-going-to-vegas This team has very little identity left and first time ever..i have been a Habs fan since I was 2 years old. Even when I started kindergarten in Toronto I wore a Montreal jersey. And as an 11 year old in Edmonton. Not wanting to see Oilers win the cup. As I always was hoping was the Canadiens. When the team won in 1986 I gave it to my friends in Edmonton. Always true Montreal fan ever since I can remember. And this being first year I have lost a lot of that passion for the team. Because most important the way this team and MB treats the players that have put in their time and other than Plekanec.. all are put aside and as max on the above article says..looks forward to the enthusiasm and excitement of a new team. The excitement that the Habs should create to foster in their own team. NOW THAT IS CHARACTER MB has no business being the GM of a once CLASS and ICONIC franchise.
  28. 2 points
    What kind of depth at center do you think the Habs have to put 3 of them on one line?!?
  29. 2 points
    Trade the centre you refuse to play at centre for a winger you decide to turn into a centre. That trade is the gift that keeps on giving.
  30. 2 points
    As weak as this roster is, I'm still happy hockey is back That little thrill never goes away.
  31. 2 points
    Now this is how you announce a contract extension: Seguin gets eight years with a $9.85M cap hit.
  32. 2 points
    Jesus Christ...do your arms get tired from working those pom-poms as you play cheerleader for Bergevin?
  33. 2 points
    They weren't a 28th place team in 2014, they were 2 wins away from a Cup final. It was obvious then, when David Desharnais was the first line centre, what was needed. He didn't get it done and the team has aged and the window closed in the mean time. Seems to me that Buffalo found a #1 centre, heck they might have 2 of them now. Toronto has 2 Ottawa made their deal to get a top centre. San Jose has had Couture, Thornton and Pavelski. St. Louis is deep down the middle now. Vancouver is hoping Elias Pettersson is going to be a number 1. Those teams weren't starting with what Bergevin was given in 2012 - A top veteran defenceman in Markov - a young kid who would win the Norris Trophy. - a winger who just had his first of 5, 30 goal seasons. - A reliable 2-way centre in his prime, in Plekanec. - a captain who could still score 20. - an ageing LW who just had 35 goals. - a young goalie on the cusp of being the top goalie in the league. - A rookie RW who would become a consistent goal scoring threat - the #3 overall pick, two second rounders in 2012, and his first, plus two more second rounders in 2013. - a young Centre who would become a strong number 3, even good enough to be the number 3 on a cup winning squad. Ray Charles could see that we needed a centre when Bergevin came on board. And I don't care what Bergevin tried, he didn't Get It Done.
  34. 2 points
    This isn't the "try league" this is the "get it done" league. If you can't get it done, eventually they're going to find people who can" Bergevin failed to improve the team, he failed to get a centre when it was clear this team was a centre away from being a legit threat at the cup. I don't care what he tried, his job was to get it done.
  35. 2 points
    It was Bergevin who decided to stand still in the summer of 2014 after his team got to the ECF. It was Bergevin who decided to stand still in the summer of 2015 after his team had the second best record in the league. He could have added a centre. He could have added a real 1RW. He could have fired Therrien for a better coach. Instead he did nothing until 2016, when his big decision was to subtract Subban and add Weber.
  36. 2 points
    I'm not crying for a tax on the 1%, sorry.
  37. 2 points
    He's not Lars Eller 2.0 He was number 5 on MacKenzie's list which is a survey of actual NHL scouts. He wasn't that big of a reach. And some of those actual NHL scouts had him rated 3rd. Zadina didn't get picked by the Sens, or the Coyotes. Less than half of the scouts surveyed by McKenzie had him at #3. The idea that we passed up a player who everyone agrees is a better talent just isn't true. There are a number of teams who would have passed on Zadina, and at least two more that actually did.
  38. 2 points
    Kotkaniemi will likely be our Kadri. He is right now our best prospect but once he hits his stride we need to have a Matthews and Marner and Nylander surrounding so he looks underrated. If he is our best young player for years to come he either broke out huge or we neglected a proper rebuild and will suck for another 10 years.
  39. 2 points
    Lateral move at best. Bring me a 1st pair LD and I'll be happy.
  40. 2 points
    I have never wished bodily harm to an adversary, I do not think we should let things boil over down that slippery slope. Criticize =YES Argue = YES Wish Death = NO
  41. 2 points
    Kraken or bust for me. People have already designed awesome logos.
  42. 2 points
    First, that didn't come close to answering the question. Second, Shaw is coming off a concussion and a subsequent knee issue that will keep him out of the lineup into the season. Perhaps that's why he's still on the team? The fact that he wasn't dealt for Domi (in a trade that would have made no sense for Arizona at all) doesn't mean that Bergevin valued him over Galchenyuk at all. Teams aren't lining up to acquire a concussion-prone bottom-six forward. That doesn't automatically mean Bergevin is valuing him over more talented players. (That does mean he's on an overpaid contract, something I think everyone was pretty much in agreement on the moment it was signed.)
  43. 2 points
    Cause the best years are years that this team likely won't be very good. And the bad years will be years that we need cap space for Kotkaniemi, Poehling, Our 2019 Draft Pick, Mete, and others to get extensions which will be significant raises on their current deals. If we were ready to compete now, I'd agree with you. But we aren't.
  44. 2 points
    We were talking about prospects the other day. There just wasn't anymore news. Of course that doesn't fit your martyrdom so
  45. 2 points
    Generally, teams will want a trade agreed on before granting a negotiation window. You don't necessarily want a blanket window where teams can quietly use it to make overtures about next year's free agency that could turn around and hurt Montreal's leverage. (That's not being moronic as H29 suggests, just proper business sense...) For example, the Habs open up the window and Florida (a team it's believed he'd like to play for) comes and in says they'll give him x for x number of years but they don't have the payroll room to trade for him in 2018-19. Pacioretty agrees to the deal in principle and turns around and tells the Habs and anyone else interested that he's no longer interested in pursuing an extension. In doing so, the Habs just lost one of the few things going for them - a pure rental isn't going to garner as much in return as someone that has the willingness to extend. Therefore, they won't grant the window until a deal is firmly agreed upon pending the acquiring team agreeing on an extension.
  46. 2 points
    I think that's decent. Muzzin is a legit top pair defenceman.and Anderson-Dolan is a good C prospect.
  47. 2 points
    I commend the positive outlook, really I do, and you are going to need every ounce of it to get through the coming storm. What is posted is, statistically solid, to prove the very point you are trying to make, the team under Bergevin's tenure has overall, been above average. the problem with averages is they don't show you where things are trending. In this case, we have been trending down with a few lucky spikes for the better part of those years. I am not just talking about points in a season, position in the standings, and all that, I am talking about the product on the ice, in its entirety and in its make up, it has been trending down. From blatantly obvious holes not being filled putting us in a worse and worse situation because of it, to letting go of the wrong players at the wrong time. The grand make up of this team has been trending downward, it is really as simple as that, we were trying to trend upward, with core pieces in every position, except Center, being damn good, and instead squandered it through a snowball like effect of improvised Management, creating holes where there once weren't any not long ago, and not filling holes that have been around for far too long. I'm all for looking at things through glass is half full spectrum, but sometimes you just gotta call a turd, a turd. You can tell me you you think the cat litter doesn't stink that bad, but don't tell me there isn't that many turds in the box when there is. It is important to ensure the line between positive thinking and ignorance doesn't get fuzzy
  48. 2 points
    Some fans really do seem to be satisfied with a team that 'has a chance to make the playoffs.' If all you want is a team that could make the playoffs if everything goes just right, then sure, MB is doing at least a passable job. And so is every other GM including Dorion, because every team always has a chance to make the playoffs if everything goes just right. Others seem to take the view that our role, as fans, is to get behind the organization, no matter what; and that this rules out serious critical assessment of the GM or anyone else. But for those who don't subscribe to these approaches, I have a really hard time seeing how the case against MB is other than open and shut.
  49. 2 points
    Agreed. And some don't get it that Bergevin walked into a situation where the Habs only had to compete with an unstable Tampa, inconsistent Ottawa, and declining Boston in their division. Their conference was a mirror New York, underachieving Washington, and disheveled Pittsburgh. 2014-2017 was a real window to make the final. In that time, Bergevin believed in Therrien. He stuck to Desharnais. He only had temporary solutions for 1RW. He didn't think Subban was good enough. He thought defence mattered more than scoring. He thought physicality was the missing ingredient. He trusted Sylvain Lefebvre in the AHL. And with the final years of Markov, he never found his heir, let alone a 2LD to play behind him. I don't expect him to be perfect. Pittsburgh won back to back Cups with an imperfect defence. But with this many issues during the Cup window, he closed it himself. Bergevin will be remembered as a GM who sat back on decisions the team needed most, and was always proactive on decisions the team didn't need to answer. And now we go into the season with a captain that reports said requested a trade, and I'm supposed to what? Ignore all this? Give Bergevin and the team a clean slate? I don't know what some expect on a discussion forum.
  50. 2 points
    The team was an above average club. It had a strong group and needed just one more piece in a top line centre. Its no longer above average though, the window on this roster has closed and it needs to be re-opened. The fact that this happened without the missing piece being added in six years absolutely falls at the feet of the GM
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