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  1. 6 points
  2. 4 points
    When you have a forward group filled with young players who is going to be adding a guy who set a record for most goals ever at the usntdp and the iihf under 18s, the ohl playoff mvp, the qmjhl playoff scoring leader and Mem cup mvp, the wjc mvp, Not lines... just putting people into positions... Caufield - kk - suzuki Drouin - domi - gallagher Lehkonen- danault - ylonen Armia - Poehling - weal Plus long shot prospects evans, teasdale, ikonen, fonstad, mcshane, vejdemo, hillis .. gotta think at least one of that group comes through You can build a strong lineup out of that. Then the d is gonna add the second best whl d, the wjc best dman and more talent Romanov - juulsen Mete - brooks Kulak - fleury Harris Struble Plus weber in a leadership role will still be a decent d even if not a number one Price with the best college goalie. You have a strong group of players coming through. Let the habs keep building internally. I dont care what other teams do. Keep building that squad and you can get a contender out of it It doesnt have to be this year.
  3. 4 points
    I see lots of people demanding MB make more changes since he hasn't really improved the roster this much off-season. I'm confident MB is trying but I don't see a lot of good options. Signing Gardiner to a 3 or 4 year deal would be great but it seems clear that either Gardiner is too injured or that he is too wedded to Toronto or insisting on a long term deal. I don't want to overpay him just so we can say we improved this off-season. I'd rather go through another season like last year and wait for the kids to improve. I think the team is on a good track for the first time in many years. The best option might be to wait and plan to push for the cup in 2 or 3 years. We have the prospect pool and the cap space for this to be a viable approach. I also think that MB might make some deals in the next month with one (or more) or the teams struggling to deal with the cap.
  4. 4 points
    Seems like all of this should be moved to the Fire Bergevin thread. Every time the Rumour thread is bumped, I expect something interesting. Instead, it's more Bergevin and a race of the downvotes/upvotes.
  5. 4 points
    With respect, the context being missed here is this team has gone into a full blown retool and building through youth for over a year now, expecting to make the playoffs during such a transition is setting the bar at an unrealistically high level to promote the rhetoric that he is continually failing. MB has not been very good during his tenure as a whole, he has also not been nearly as terrible as some make him out to be, the truth, as usual, is somewhere between both biased parties of the argument. He mismanaged some assets and even an entire offseason, he has also surprisingly shown great poise and solid asset management and strategy since embarking on this retool, it has thus far been the beginning of a redemption story for him. If you are going to give the guy a chance to redeem himself from past mistakes, then you have to, at some point, put those mistakes in the past and judge him based on what he is doing while trying to redeem himself. I have little complaints since the retool started about him, with the exception of the current passive offseason, but I do understand the offseason is far from over and things can happen by training camp. All in all, what I am seeing is a team with a top 5 prospect pool in the league, and miles away from any kind of cap hell, those are his dues to collect, there is no other regime to give credit to, there is no one else responsible for this current situation. So while it is easy for some people to continually pile on the dog poop about his past blunders, those same people are seemingly nowhere to be found when it comes to giving an honest unbiased assessment of his retool management. While I think it is easy enough to see why they steer clear of any positive assessment and only jump in the fray when there is mud to fling around and dead horses to beat on, it doesn't make it right by any stretch.
  6. 4 points
    Oh crap, you mean i've been looking at this the wrong way the entire time?!?! It's just like golf and you need the lowest amount of points to be the winning?! I'll see myself out...
  7. 4 points
    I made my point. I would have fired him after 2017. They didnt. They kept him on. What hes done over the last two years tells me that hes moving in the right direction. If I feel things are going well now, I'm not going to short circuit that and replace him because of a move in 2015. GMs grow and mature and learn on the job. So do coaches. So do players. I dont think hes the same guy we hired in 2013 who had never been a GM before. Over his tenure hes made good moves and mistakes. His current trajectory tells me that hes learned from the mistakes. So I'm weighing what is happening now way more than I'm weighing what happened 4 years ago. And what I see is an organization building up their young talent and prospects.
  8. 4 points
    A player who has 53, 46, and 53 points in his last three seasons is not a third line player. Michael sergachev has not proven to be a number 1 d. He was on the third pair last season. Bergevin is Trading all the prospects? What? How? We have one of the best prospect pools in the league thanks to prospects and picks we have added in recent years. Let's stop the madness people. There are areas to criticize but when you say that Bergervin is comparable to Milbury or that Drouin is a third liner. You lose any and all credibility and your argument becomes moot.
  9. 4 points
    The Habs have 25 players on their roster on cap friendly right now. Every player they send down, they save the first 1.075 million in salary. 23 men is the max NHL roster... so to add a player they send 3 to the AHL. Sending down Alzner, Peca and Weise, means they would have 7.269 million in space. Most teams leave about a million in space for callups due to injury. They could sign a player worth up to 6 million with no other moves.
  10. 4 points
    ... to get the cap space to sign the top UFA centreman? At least try to give the full story, Don.
  11. 3 points
    It is highly unlikely that Poehling will just step into a top-6 NHL C slot. And it is even more unlikely that he will outperform Domi's impressive 72 points. We have seen over and over and over that, apart from rare outliers like Price, Subban, and Gallagher - prospects hardly ever come in and make a big impact. (And hell, even Price and Gally crashed a couple of years in, before recovering; and Subban was benched for five games). And yet wave after wave of prospect comes up with all tbese unrealistic assumptions about what they might be able to do.We never learn. This post also illustrates what I mean about Domi being overlooked as a C. If I told you tomorrow that Poehling would become a 60-point C, folks would be clicking their heels. Meanwhile we have a 23-year-old 72-point C and quite a few people overlook this, or else talk about moving him to W for some reason. Domi's production is that of a legit #1C in the NHL. Let's internalize that, finally.
  12. 3 points
    I fear I might be at risk of moaning Cole Caufield's stat line during sex.
  13. 3 points
    Not much to talk about these days but man, what a great job Bergevin has done with this team. *goes to get popcorn*
  14. 3 points
    The 25th and 27th teams are closer to the cup than the 14th will EVER be
  15. 3 points
    Can we please stop with the notions that we have to poop the bed for years on end to become an instant contender, and that we have to trade players based on age regardless of where your team is in its building arc? It is seriously ridiculous to consider both of those things to be absolutes, when it comes to how to reach contender status. Did you see St.Louis or Boston bottom feeding for years during the last 5 to 7 years to get where they are today? Did they trade away all their veterans on the wrong side of their prime to achieve their current status? How about San Jose? How many seasons did they spend bottom feeding to acquire a contender during the last 5 to 7 seasons? How many veterans did they trade away in that time? There are several different ways to build a contending team, but ultimately a balance of good drafting, good trades to achieve roster balance, good contracts and cap management are the keys to getting there.
  16. 3 points
    About two years ago, or post-subban trade, I was all for firing Bergevin. I mean I had zero desire to hold onto him. That, then the Alzner signing, a teeeerrrible terrible prospect pool, and the constant need to sign CHaracter guys who couldn’t skate. I really didn’t like MB. Fast forward two years. The sting of the Subban trade has lessened, and it doesn’t seem as lopsided. He’s sent Alzner to the minors, the prospect pool is the best since pacioretty subban price and McDonaugh (and deeper) he seems to realize this league requires great skaters - MB has turned a page, and so have I. Im not saying I no longer criticize him, but I’m saying I recognize what he’s done recently, and if you ask me It’s a very good job. If the team regresses, I’ll change my mind, but right now I like the direction, so right now I like MB.
  17. 3 points
    I have three downvotes on this page alone already, because I don't agree to consider Bergevin a failure. I expect I'll get at least one more for this post. But to extend your proverb, the proof of the pudding is in the eating, and the new season has not started yet. So I am not yet willing to condemn Bergevin's performance for this summer.
  18. 2 points
    Well, if by some miracle the Jets are (a) dumb enough to trade Laine and (b) dumb enough to prefer Drouin over Domi, why, we should be all over that like Ron Hextall on Chris Chelios.
  19. 2 points
    Nope. Max Domi is our best forward and finally fixed our centre problems, plays a solid game and is a guy you win with. Laine is a player you add to play with Domi. Josh Brook is our best defensive prospect and hopefully Weber’s replacement when the time comes. I’m not sure if I would do Domi for Laine straight up.
  20. 2 points
    In an effort to keep the rumour thread about rumours, I've split a lot of the talk from the last couple of weeks into here. Proceed (preferably without the same few up/downvoting simply because of who's posting and not the actual post quality...).
  21. 2 points
    You didn't answer the question. The question was... what team is perfect. The Blues had goaltending issues and was lucky that their fourth string guy from the start of the season played like a good goalie after injuries hit. They also don't have the star power that Pittsburgh, Washington, etc... have. Pittsburgh lacks defence. Toronto lacks defence. Tampa lost a number of defencemen and again their weakness is at the back end. San Jose might have the worst goaltending in the NHL. IF its not the worst, its bottom 3. Florida still lacks defensive depth. Vancouver lacks scoring depth, and trusts Markstrom as their number 1 goalie. I also don't think they have a number 1 defenceman. Every team has flaws. Did they work to improve? sure... but that doesn't make them perfect. Bergevin makes moves too. Last summer he addressed the centre issue. He also has greatly added to the prospect pool. This summer he added a much better backup goalie. He also upgraded Been to Chiarot. If the question is, does the GM make moves to improve his team? We've been over this... Bergevin has never been afraid to make moves, he makes as many moves as any GM in the NHL. If the question is, has the GM fixed every weakness? Then there is no team in the NHL where the GM has fixed every weakness. There is no perfect team.
  22. 2 points
    How many playoff misses will it take before MB defenders think he should be fired, I wonder? If we miss this season, does that do the trick? I don't see why Habs29's post has three downvotes. He is quite right that data requires context, and also quite right that - in the main - the longer MB has been GM, the worse the results have gotten. The overall uptick last year doesn't change the fact that the team still missed the playoffs, after all. If that's a fine season, then the bar is just too damned low around here. The argument that the talent pool is good and the organization is now trending the right direction makes some sense. But saying that is quite different from redeeming MB's body of work to this point, which would indeed have been completely unacceptable for any Habs' GM prior to Bergevin. We may like the look of the future, but it hasn't happened yet. Taken as a whole - looking at what actually has happened, in terms of results - MB's career has been mediocre at best.
  23. 2 points
    Yes, I also knew that without the spreadsheet. The spreadsheet shows without a doubt that the CH is clearly above average in the regular season but not as good in the playoffs A pet peace of mine is when someone claims something is true based on their opinion where data shows otherwise (e.g. climate change)
  24. 2 points
    The Devils have done quite a bit to improve this off season. I have not seen a lot of Gusev, but seems to be low return to VGK, petty much what the Habs got for Shaw.
  25. 2 points
    I do love our prospect pool, but I also loved the core we had (as I mentioned above)... Bergevin showed how inept he was with the handling of that group. The Habs are worse off with the subtraction of Shaw and the addition of Chiarot. Where is the direction? We all get giddy on free agent days or in year's past deadline days, only to be disappointed once again. In 2017, our g.m went out and traded for Martinsen, Ott, and Dwight King( none of which play in the nhl anymore ), when the only real missing piece this team needed was a top 6 forward, that could bury the puck, from time to time At that very moment, I knew this g.m had no clue what he was doing. Keep eating the bread though; you guys are paying for Bergevin's hypnotizing, tailored fit suits.
  26. 2 points
    So any rumours out there?
  27. 2 points
    Agree 100%, just plain silly to spend recklessly to get to the cap. Then what happens if a good opportunity comes up??
  28. 2 points
  29. 2 points
    We can argue what caused what, but as far as can see the results constitute the pudding. Therefore to-date I give MB a failing grade. CC is right.
  30. 2 points
    I knew the comment about MB's timidity would invite derision. And it's true that it wasn't refined enough. Yet there does seem to be a weird risk-aversion in MB; it mostly has to do with money. Thus, he insisted on giving Subban a bridge deal, presumably because he felt Subban was a "risky" player. The result was that Subban had him by the balls three years later and squeezed a $9 million deal out of him. That could have been avoided easily had he not been so timid about committing to Subban in the first place. He also caused the team to crater in 2018 by timidly failing to re-sign Radulov and Markov. Those contracts were too "risky." And he failed to acquire a top-6 C when that was all the team really needed to elevate to the level of top-tier contender; and he is currently replicating this mistake (on a lesser scale) with LD. He held on to idiot Therrien long past his best-before date. He has done nothing to improve the team this year because "the price is too high." And so forth. These all seem to be related to a tendency toward caution. As for his bold moves, Subban for Weber was really a "safe" move for an old-school guy like Bergevin. Weber is a reassuring type whereas Subban was busy pushing envelopes. Too scary. Sergachev-for-Drouin was a bad hockey trade and risky in on-ice terms, but it wasn't actually risky, because with Drouin being a francophone, fan support was guaranteed. Meanwhile, trading Patches was a no-brainer. Any GM would have done that. This doesn't mean it wasn't a great trade; it was. But that wouldn't be my example of bold risk-taking. Galy for Domi was a lateral move on paper, even if it worked out brilliantly. As for the claim that MB is an "above average" GM, this is religious belief rather than rational analysis. How can an "above average GM" have such a mediocre record after eight years? Ridiculous. He had one above-average offseason (summer 2018) and fans are trying to leverage that into overblown claims about how great he is. Even Reggie Houle made a good move now and then. Doesn't follow that he was "above average."
  31. 2 points
    Excessively cautious? Unwilling to make bold moves? There are many things to criticize but a guy who traded subban for weber, traded pacioretty, gave the price contract, traded galchenyuk for domi, sergachev for drouin, etc... doesnt suggest a guy overly cautious and unwilling to make a bold move to me. Then there is the alzner deal, trying to pay lucic a lot, bringing radulov back from russia, the aho offersheet. Being bold isnt and has never been the issue. Weber is also a freak. Im not sure he'll be a number 1 dman, i agree there, but a top 4? I think he will.
  32. 2 points
    A few things I will say. 1) GMs, coaches, players... they all develop with experience. The fact that Bergevin made mistakes earlier in his career does not mean that he is destined to repeat those mistakes. 2) Yes Price and Weber are in their 30s. Chara is still a top 4 defenceman and an effective part of a team that was one win away from a Stanley Cup just this past year, in his 40s. Goalies, especially elite ones, have always traditionally aged well. If the rest of the team is young and grows into a contender, there is no reason those two can't still be core parts of that contender even if they are no longer the clear two best players (as hopefully Kotkaniemi takes the role of best player, and one of Romanov/Brook takes the role of #1 defenceman) 3) based on the two way metrics with Kotkaniemi, he is at that top-tier all-star calibre of prospect. It will just be more Patrice Bergeron/Anze Kopitar 75-80 point guy with Selke defence as well, then it will be Pettersson at 90-100 points. Which one is more valuable is up for debate. The defensive metrics at 18 were elite level, while he still showed he can contribute offence, doing all of this as the youngest player in the NHL.
  33. 1 point
    Yeah, much as I love Domi, Laine is a potential superstar. You make that deal.
  34. 1 point
    Personally I don’t. For one, although Domi Isn’t the pure goal scorer Laine is, I’d argue he’s actually the better all around player at the moment (the Laine could blossom in the next couple year. Second, Brook has high potential to be a legit top 4, 30+ point D man. Third, Laine’s struggles last year are flashing a few warning lights for me. I get that he has superstar potential but he also has enigma potential.
  35. 1 point
    Not sure how any of us doesn't wish Radulov was still on our team. He was hands down Dallas best player this season and a monster in the playoffs as well as ours 3 seasons ago... Losing those 2 players + sergachev and replacing with Alzner and drouin was a monumental setback. Radulov especially would be an absolute beast with us. Id like to see Drouin coasting with radulov on his line. Guy would bite his ear off... The cost of not having him on the team was definitively the playoffs this year at least. As for markov, i do believe his time has past from 3 seasons ago when he again was arguably our best defender (ahead of Weber). I stand firm though that taking him on as depth defenceman would not hurt us. Markov on our bottom pair or #7 is a no brainer. Allowing Brook, Fleury and Juulsen one more year for development and bringing them up on merit rather necessity would be ideal. ALZNER IN NO WAY is better then him even at 40. The same guys/ fans who called his demise since 2010 would eat crow in 2019. The problem would be CJ using Markov in a higher role, impeding the development of Mete or taking minutes away from a 24 year old kulak who showed alot of promise. That's what I would not like. Again for me, it was Karlsson/ Panarin or nobody. I would not doubt Poehling pushes Domi out to the wing but due to Domi's success there LY it could make it a hard choice. I dont doubt Poehling will pay instant dividends and Kotkaniemi will be much tougher to play against next year as well
  36. 1 point
    I sat in aa white once year. It was good value. You could see the whole game. I only go to one or two games a year so I like premium seats as a rule.
  37. 1 point
    At least in Toronto, a Leafs-Habs game will always be one of the most expensive tickets.
  38. 1 point
    Good point about the backup...but then again Kinkaid's numbers were so atrocious last year that I am not too excited about him. You're right about the fine margins. Fair point. Then again, we can flip that point around. The team missed by two points - a healthy and non-regressed Weber will make up the gap, right? Well, maybe not. What if Gallagher gets hurt? Or Domi? My point here is just to say that, rather than settle for marginal improvement (if we have even that), we gave ourselves a bigger margin of error. Instead we are basically standing pat with a bubble team and hoping the breaks go our way this time around. Fundamentally, I do not understand why fans are satisfied with that. I'm being honest here. I just don't get it. Now if someone wants to reiterate the point that the offseason isn't over yet, more could still happen - hey, I agree. But as of right now, I see no reason to be particularly excited or especially optimistic. We have a bubble team just like last year! Yaaaaaaaaay!
  39. 1 point
    So to clarify.. screwing around in the middle of summer... putting a line up together suggesting with no more signings and no more trades what the heck are biggest Hope's and dreams for next season could actually be.. I suggest imagining/wish/ hope/ dream that Poehling could impress SO much that he could merit a spot high in the line up and you all are flipping out and changing everything around like I'm saying this is a done deal! FFS you tell me how this team is improving from within then? Without saying I dont want Domi moving after having his best season to date... but suggesting no alternative hope to improving the opening day line up. Byron Weal Armia lehkonan on Domi's RW to replace shaw? YA that's a real big dream for success!! Ok, if you said Suzuki impressing and playing on Domi's wing I could share that dream. Sorry for not thinking Max Domi at 24yrs old CAN ONLY score 70 points from C and he'll be our saviour at #1C for life... Meanwhile he put up 52 in his rookie season on a shi$ty a$S team playing wing. (I thought rookies cant contribute) -Was a dynamo at the WJC at wing -Put up 100+ points in London on wing Is getting 20 more points then his rookie season 3 seasons later so impressive?considering he had 2 stalled seasons with a wrist injury. (Gallagher all over again) Gimmie a break what a joke! Can anyone quote anywhere that someone said Poehling was putting up 70 points next year? But to think Domi cant get 70 points next year with a good C on the wing is just as asinine as any other hope dream someone has. Hate to break the news but going into next season our forward depth is at C. But let's hope for Jason freakin Pominville on PTO to take us to the next level and save the day!
  40. 1 point
    Kk has a much higher ceiling and played 3c all year. You can hope in one hand and shit in the other and see which fills first. Poeling may not even make the team. I dont think it's pessimistic to think that if he does make it he will be protected and get 4th line minutes.
  41. 1 point
    Poehling might grow into a top-6 C. It's possible given the lift-off that his offensive game displayed in the minors, after he was drafted as more of a two-way guy. What I'm skeptical about is that he will step in and be a #2C next season, his rookie year. And even in the highly unlikely event that he plays like a top-6 FW consistently, it is probably more realistic that *he* would be the guy placed on the wing next to Domi, rather than the other way around. Here's another way to put it: Poehling is 99% guaranteed NOT to be a better player, or better C, than Max Domi next season. My general attitude can be summed up as follows. Rookies rarely step in and make a consistent impact. That's just reality. And that's why I generally don't get too excited about what they will add to the roster, in that first season. Call me a pessimist all you want, but the list of Habs rookies/prospects that people got all excited about is practically endless - and of all of them, only a small handful actually bucked the odds and had an immediate impact. (Indeed, most of them amounted to nothing or relatively little as NHL players in general, never mind as rookies).
  42. 1 point
    Romanov has played 4 pre-season games and has 3a Khisamutdinov no pts in 4 gms Ylonen 5pts in 4gms Ikonen just 1game so far Khisamutdinov gets 1a in 2-1 win
  43. 1 point
    I don't want to move Domi back to wing. He had his best season, BY FAR, at centre. Why move him off that?
  44. 1 point
    PTOs are literally no risk The fact is that if these guys are as old and washed up as Don claims then the kids will easily beat them in camp. If the kids don't beat them out, then the kids aren't ready and they have something more to give.
  45. 1 point
    This is an over the top statement. Calling him mediocre is a fair assessment, but milbery snow level ineptitude is radical.
  46. 1 point
    The GM needs to be best candidate, not just the best French candidate. Politics needs to take a back seat, at some point.
  47. 1 point
  48. 1 point
    Come on man.... Using the Leafs in any conversation about being ok with the cap right now is ludicrous, they have had to reshape their roster in a significant way to try to get around their cap issues, have a handful of important expiring contracts next summer that will be nearly impossible to hold onto. They have their best player without a contract and are needing to scrounge every last penny of cap space to even attempt to facilitate that signing.
  49. 1 point
  50. 1 point
    I agree with your first two points. But while Bergevin undeniably made mistakes early in his tenure, his last two-three years have been strong, so I would be loth to characterize him as a "failure".