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2015-16 the team had the worst goaltending in hockey. I discount it from my calculations when it comes to assessing the Trade. For me, in terms of Subban-Weber, the real comparators are 2015 and 2017. Both teams had Price. And what 2017 showed was that the Trade did not solve any actual problem and did not improve the team at all. With Subban in 2015, the team got to the second round, but struggled to score, and the PP was all too predictable as everything was funnelled to Subban's boomer. In 2017, the team lost in the first round and struggled to score, and the PP was all too predictable as everything was funnelled to Weber's boomer. Indeed, the 2017 team was much more erratic than the 2015 team, melting down midseason and only righting the ship after firing the coach, only to crap out in round one. So even at the mythical level of 'leadership' the team showed zero improvement. In fact, on balance, it did worse, both in the regular season and playoff. So Bergevin's big coup accomplished less than nothing. And it's been all downhill since then. Meanwhile, of course, Nashville has taken a huge step forward. Now people will spring up and say that the trade had nothing to do with that. But all I know is that if the Habs had made the finals and then finished first overall, Bergevin's defenders would be clicking their heels and crediting the trade as a major contributor to that result. The trade was dumb and Nashville was the big winner. No other way to spin it.

Uses aged gouda on a brioche loaf, with garlic herb butter and a whole lot of love. Meanwhile Weber uses stale bread that was on sale at the grocery store and Kraft single slices of "cheese". And he doesn't flip it in time so it burns

Since the end of last season until now, it has been a very disappointing year. Before that it was average. I will judge the Subban year based on where the Canadiens team is at the end of 2020-2021. Depending I f we have participated in a Stanley Cup final or not by then The low mark for me is this year, now that we have flushed out the dead wood from the lack of high draft picks, lack of second round picks and some busts (Leblanc, Beaulieu, Tinordi and McCarron) === That being said, I follow the Canadiens for my enjoyment and for entertainment. And now I look forward the draft and the UFA market. I think we will start seeing positives news soon and we will be able to leave all this bad stuff behind

There's nothing wrong with it being brought up, as it was a massive trade. But my god, everything always seems to come back to that. I will disagree that our organization is a "disaster" since the trade. Winning the division is a disaster? Sure this year is absolute garbage, but try and tell me with a straight face that PK Subban would have single handily helped this team from the garbage pile that it's in right now. No, what happened this year was our MVP was so terrible that a goalie picked up on waivers has been better, our #1 defenseman has been injured since the first game, there was 8 million in cap space just sitting there that could have been used, our best goal scorer has been injured and was having an off year, our #1 center is actually a winger, among other things. I really don't understand how one can draw a straight line and say that the trade is the reason why everything is the way it is. The only reason why it looks so bad is because Nashville is having success and Montreal isn't. Until there is a clear gap in performance between Subban and Weber, it was a fair deal in my opinion.

Really? I never knew. I wonder what his secret is. I'm guessing he uses garlic bread.

Schlemko appears to be injured again. You almost need to consider him a #6-7 defenseman just by the # of games he's likely to play in a season.

King's Watch is over...

I am all in line with changes to player development, I also have a strange feeling TT might be overstepped on picks at the draft by MB. He seemed to have free licence in later rounds but might not always get his 1st pick in early rounds. Just a feeling no proof of this but he is the one that picked our stars now on team (edit: and some other ones), right?

I would never say the trade was the cause of all our problems. My point was rather that because the team has regressed relative to 2015, crapping out in Round One last year and now being pure garbage from pole to pole this season, we lack the level of success that could mitigate the stupidity of the trade in the way that the team success after the Chelios trade helped to do. This is one reason why it keeps coming up and why the trade is such a powerful symbol of incompetent management.

It's funny how a 2016 trade still dominates a 2018 Habs forum. Who has their panties in a knot, is it the people who just won't let it go or is it the people tired of hearing it? One of those reactions wouldn't happen without the other. I hope Bergevin has a great off season and gets this team back on track. He's a moron because he traded Subban Pacioretty is having an off year. Because Subban isn't feeding him the puck Man it sucks that Weber is injured. It's because he is old and Subban's young foot would have absorbed that slap shot I really love grilled cheese sandwiches. Subban makes the BEST grilled cheese sandwiches In my life I've never seen such a thing, it's borderline obsessive. But I suppose with any group of people, there will always be those that live in the past and have a negative outlook on everything. I'm just glad that I'm not one of those people.

You were the one who complained about my thread.... i was not going to nit pick the details of your earlier post... but since you felt the need to be a prick about the Joel Bouchard thread, i figured what the hell?

Don' Whatever, if you want to josh someone... Don't cry if they give it back... I included the word "gem" for a reason. In any event, let's move on.

I don't think the Subban trade is "an obsession." It was a stupid trade that showed beyond a shadow of a doubt that this management regime is made up of morons. And pretty much everything that's happened since has consolidated that conclusion. It's not like the Chelios trade, which was a bad move by a good management group that went on to win the Cup. No, this is a move that symbolizes everything wrong with the current management of a team that has veered from mediocrity to disaster since the trade was made. Therefore, it's natural that it come up fairly regularly. Mostly when it comes up it's mentioned in the context of other issues (e.g., MB's contract negotiation acumen or lack thereof), as an example or illustration. Few of us are posting long windy stand-alone posts that deal exclusively with the Subban trade. You can try to impose some blanket ban on any mention of the trade, but human conversation doesn't work like that. It was the biggest trade since Roy, it's going to keep coming up. And incidentally, I'm pretty sure that if MB had somehow hit a home run with a Subban trade, that would be regularly brought up in the context of defending his performance.