Zowpeb
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Posts posted by Zowpeb
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1 minute ago, Commandant said:
Doughty and Pietrangelo both had really rough nights.
Agreed...I didn't really like the squad they selected for D. Their play in the tournament did not change my mind.
Bouwmeester jumps out as a guy who simply should not have been on the roster. I swear he must have dirty pictures on folks running Hockey Canada.
Vlasic and Muzzin weren't guys I would have picked...
Subban and Seabrook deserved a place. You need that depth of talent precisely because guys like Doughty and Pietrangelo can have "off nights" too...frankly, they almost cost the game last night on multiple occasions. Sure, we won but it felt like we were trying to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
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On 9/28/2016 at 1:40 AM, xXx..CK..xXx said:
I remember after last game you had nice things to say about Weber but throughout the tournament I've personally noticed Doughty and Burns a lot more than Weber. For a defenseman maybe that's a good thing, maybe it's not.
Have to say that I thought Doughty was pretty terrible last night...he was just floundering at both ends of the ice.
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Hey DLBLR,
I'm not sure I buy the "ease them into the spotlight" approach. The party doesn't stop and, if anything, is even more enticing to young players you want to develop. Sure, the media pressure may be a little less intense but there will be lots of folks trying to gain access to them for all sorts of reasons. JMHO.
I'd love to get back into the SK pool again...I'll PM you if I can remember how...lol.
Zow
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I know everyone seems to be in love with having the farm team close to home but I hate seeing the farm team in Laval. Doesn't do much to develop a fan base outside of the province, keeps the kids in the media spotlight, party atmosphere of Montreal, etc...
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I can't believe no one posted the Finland song from Monty Python...
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Over the next 2-4 years it's not a terrible deal...certainly not Roy 2.0. After that it's probably bad...but who knows, Weber could be dealt in 2 years making the balance of those years look better. I don't disagree that the Habs lose the trade and should have got more. But Weber isn't anywhere near as useless as Thibault and/or Rucinsky and Subban is not at Roy's caliber at the same time.
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Lucic is incredibly overrated. Thank god he's not on this team.
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Subban plays this game with the passion of a kid. He was run out by a bunch of schmucks who can't handle someone not being visibly angry at a loss. He doesn't need to be the captain to be a performer that can change games and carry a team. Hockey needs to stop thinking performance needs to equal locker room leadership.
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I think the character stuff is quite likely being overblown. He did not have that many issues outside of his exiting the NHL. Further, that was 4 years ago. He's the captain in Moscow. He's now 29. I think this could be a very good signing. I like this signing.
I still hate the Subban deal enough that Bergevin needs to get fired. I like Weber but if you trade Subban that's not the deal to make.
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Erat put up close to a 40 point pace a 2 years ago and that was despite some injuries and a mid season trade. I think last year was a write off due to being on Arizona...no reason he can't be a 45 point 2nd line guy with decent line mates, no 1st line pressure and some 2nd unit PP time. Pleks and Gallagher could offer that if the Habs could find a 1st line RWer to pair with Pacioretty and Galchenyuk.
He could be a serviceable 2nd line winger at a reasonable price...what PAP was supposed to be but with better two way play.
I'd sign that deal and start shaking trees to acquire a legit scoring RWer to see if we can elevate that 1st line into 3 guys with 70 point potential...something I thought Kessel could have provided even if he is a meat head. Sharp is a nice player too but he doesn't bring the scoring potential/ceiling up as much...but he is the kind of guy you want on your team generally. JMHO.
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So a couple people didn't appear to like Erat as a possibility...what's the concern with him?
He's 33 so not too old yet, is probably a 45-55 point guy for the 2nd line LW and is equally consistent in the playoffs and is respectable in his own end.
You can argue about if he can still put up those points but outside of last year in Arizona that's what he's been pretty consistently. If anything his time last season probably makes him a bit of a short term contract bargain.
I think he could do well with Plekanec and Gallagher and fit in with the Habs style of play...
I still think Galchenyuk should move to C full time on the 1st line so it would mean trying to find a LWer and a RWer...perhaps Erat could still be a reasonably priced fit for 2nd line LW duty...and he's certainly no worse then most other LW UFA's.
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As much as a stud #1 C would be a welcome addition I don't think it's a necessity.
Move Galchenyuk to the 1st line C for the full year and Pleks to 2nd line C. Eller can fill out 3rd line C.
Trade for Kessel to line up with Galchenyuk and Pacioretty. That's a first line that could put up huge points...and could allow Galchenyuk to develop into a real offensive threat. Not sure what the Leafs want but I'd assume a 1st round pick, a halfway decent prospect and a d-man from the roster...especially if they eat some salary (not sure how that impacts the cap).
Sign a LWer for the 2nd line with Pleks and Gallagher. Martin Erat might be worth a look...I see him as a rebound candidate (a productive guy till he left Nashville - used wrong in Washington and, well, Arizona is Arizona).
Find a way to dump DD's, Parenteau's and Gonchar's salaries to help pay for Erat, Kessel and some of the re-signings that need to happen. Even better if Gonchar or DD can move in part of a Kessel deal to make the cap work...but that's probably wishful thinking without taking back some other equally off-setting Leaf slug.
Habs have enough depth on D to make this work and still look strong there...
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I'm a little worried about how they try to fit these three guys in, the inevitable tinkering, and what it could mean to chemistry as we approach the playoffs. Hopefully they don't try to force any of it...
I'm really happy they should be able to run out the 3rd and 4th lines hard every night and keep fresh legs going by inserting guys as needed. Having some decent depth to simply run teams ragged as much as possible in a playoff run can be pretty valuable. I also love the depth on D which could be invaluable leading up to, and including, the playoffs...and might keep Subban and Markov fresher as well as less likely to get injured...not to mention being better able to overcome any potential injuries to any of the D corps, or take the time to get over nagging ones.
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This team wins because of goaltending and team defense...and it has had a 2-3 decent puck movers out of the back end which helps the forwards look better. This team needs a significant offensive force at C or RW to be legit...and that's without losing much of the remaining top 6. JMHO
Perhaps Galchenyuk can be that "force" in the next 1-2 years...though I don't think Therrien is the coach to develop him into that 80 point potential he has. Pacioretty is a great player who needs a Getzlaf type C to take him to the next level of production. Gallagher is a spark plug best suited to a second line. Pleks is a good 2nd line C...or a great 3rd line C. DD is, IMHO, the kind of 2nd line C that low seeded playoff teams have...but he's elevated in Montreal into more then he is. Parenteau is similar to DD without the fan love in...but he's clearly a below Vanek in talent and threat level.
So, I give Therrien credit for getting everything out of these guys...
Here's some trivia...how many 100 point scorers have the Habs had? Bear in mind, while infrequent now it was much more common though the 80's and 90's. While 100 points is infrequent today...how many 80 point scorers have the Habs had since the late 90's? Want to know why we haven't had a cup since '93...start there IMHO. We never have high scoring, franchise level, offensive talent at forward. Pisses me off.
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The toughest sport in the world is probably rugby which has no fighting. Of course they do have players biting blood capsules to fake injury though.
In other words, like BlueKross said, one size does not fit all.
Fights DO break out from time to time in Rugby. Less then you might think given the sport...but they still happen from time to time.
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Frankly, I don't think you can remove fighting from the sport...even if you really want to. Perhaps you could regulate it so there are less incidences. Stopping it entirely isn't realistic. Comparing it to other sports is also unrealistic. Football is physical but very slow paced allowing time for guys to calm down, guys don't carry sticks and they wear indestructible pads/helmets even moreso then hockey. Baseball, soccer and basketball simply don't compare. Only Lacrosse or Rugby would compare...and fights do happen in those sports too. Hockey is simply a faster pace game then the big 4, played on a relatively small surface, with equipment that allows guys to fly into each other, allows that physical contact in the rules and guys carry sticks. Do I think fighting should be promoted as part of the sport for it's entertainment value...of course not. BUT, fighting WILL happen from the passion and emotion of the game...fighting is a sympton of the postive passion and energy you want to cultivate. The biggest problem I have is the "staged" fighting...that should be banned entirely. Too often a guy takes some liberties on a shift and the two designated fighters stage a fight as though it solves something...bleh. If they want to cut it back then simply cut to commercial during the stoppages when fights break out...stop promoting it and penalize teams and players alike for the staged fighting.
Having said all that, I think people who use the Parros injury some sort of justification to end all fighting in hockey is senseless...the injury was a fluke. Maybe they should change the rules so guys don't play on hard ice, or in an area surrounded by boards they might bump into. Accidents happen...felt really bad for Parros watching that and I hope he bounces back to resume his career.
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Yes would be nice to see Beaulieu make the roster, but; Gorges has to play top 4 minutes and he couldn't carry Beaulieu for 20+minutes and cover up for his defensive gaffs. Beaulieu will get there, but still needs to improve play in own end.
Offense from the back end is not missing from current top six, but defensive coverage is more a concern with Subban still learning, Gorges, Boullion and Diaz being smallish, Yemelin out and Markov, while plays a very smart game, has never been real strong in own end.
Markov has never been strong in his own end?? I hope you aren't trying to be serious...he was known for his offense but was pretty damn good defending too. Makes me question the rest of your post...
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Desharnais's value will be through the roof if he puts up another 60 point season. OK, maybe not that high, but we could get a high quality piece for him. But then we wouldn't want to trade him, especially with the language issue.
His value would not be significant. If he puts up 60 points he's still a physical, defensive and face off liability. He's the prototypical 2nd line center on an 8th to 10th seeded team. He will not command a high quality piece in the trade market. Sorry to burst the bubble. You get high quality prospects from top seeded teams looking to bolster their clubs at deadlines...what top seeded club would think Desharnais represents that? If you want a top player from a club selling off at the deadline then you have salary cap concerns and the fact said player is likely better then DD (or of the same mediocrity and possibly with a higher cap hit). If you deal a guy like DD it will be for an equally uninspiring player...but one that likely fills a more pressing void at that time unless you want a player with a bad contract (not advisable...ahem...see: Gomez, Scott) or you package DD with other pieces.
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OK. We have one elite all-around defenceman, and a gaggle of one-dimensional blueliners, all of which are average (or worse) in their specialties except Markov, who is elite in the offensive aspect of the game.Doesn't change the fact that our D on paper is unacceptable, depending hugely on Tinordi breaking out.
Markov is also very solid defensively...and I would say was well above average defensively before the injury.
Gorges may not excel in any single aspect but he's got a good all around game...he just doesn't have any role offensively.
The D does need a strong defensive d-man...but just a steady guy to round them out, especially when Emelin is back.
Everyone seems to be writing Markov off and that he'll be gone as a UFA...why?
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With all the Trade/Talbot/Simmonds/Edler/Coburn/Jagr talk, I ask one question:
Are we really such a small team?
Forwards that are 6 feet or taller: White, Galchenyuk, Bourque, Eller, Moen, Pacioretty, Prust, Parros
Forwards under 6 feet: Brière, Plekanec, Gionta, Desharnais, Gallagher
Defensemen that are 6 feet or taller: Markov, Subban, Gorges, Drewiske, Emelin, Tinordi, Beaulieu
Defensemen under 6 feet: Bouillon, Diaz
Goalies: Both over 6 feet: (6 ft 1 Budaj, 6 ft 3 Price)
A guy like Gionta, who everyone says is finished, still managed 14 goals, 12 assists for 26 points last season. In a full season, that's close to 50 points, which is the same pace he's been at since he joined the Habs. Gallagher plays like a big guy and I think no one will question Plekanec's heart. Brière is only here for 2 years and might return to his former self if played at center. Also, say what you will about Desharnais, but he still put up 10 goals, 18 assists and 28 points in 48 games. In full season, that's also about close to 50 points, which is just a little less then the 60 he scored the season before. I'm not saying that we shouldn't make ANY changes to the team: if we can trade Gionta or Desharnais for a good return, I won't object. However, we are not a bad team with the current lineup: Are we a cup contender? NO. But are we a team capable of making the playoffs and maybe winning a series? YES. Gionta's contract expires after next season, as well as Markov and Bouillon's contracts. Once this happens, Beaulieu will be able to be a full-time Hab and the likes of Nygren, Dietz, Ellis, Pateryn, Thomas, Leblanc, McCarron, Fournier, Collberg, Holland, will have a chance to battle for a spot. If they don't cut it, we will have cap space to get good players via free agency or trade. So my point is: the future is bright. If Bergevin can make a trade to improve the team, then do it. But not at the expense of our future. The Habs will be contenders in 2 years time.
Your forgetting that most of the $$$ freed up by losing Gionta and Bouillon will go towards increases for Galchenyuk, Subban and Gallagher...maybe Tinordi and likely Emelin too. At the very least the team needs to get rid of Desharnais and find a gritty 3rd line C that can win face offs and kill penalties...that one change would balance out a lot of size concerns and keep Pleks fresh for the PP...Gionta leaving as a UFA at seasons end would potentially solve the rest of the size concerns. No one should want all the small guys gone...nothing wrong with 2-3 smaller skilled forwards...but we have 5 right now. Dumping lackluster guys like Bourque would also make me quite happy...guys who disappear for long stretches are worse to have around then small skilled players.
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I don't believe one second that he was looking for Doughty's money.
My bet would be Cam Fowler's money, maybe a bit more because of Quebec's taxes rate.
Ahem...weren't you quite vocal about Subban getting a major long term deal...like $7M per for many years?
Pretty sure it was you saying that...
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His shirt sales will help fund the next buyouts.
By next buy outs do you mean now? Are the Habs not against the cap already...
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I think his agent is using his ties to Montreal to drive up Jagr's value...again...
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Well Lovett, you and I listen to different media outlets because I only hear great stuff about his handling of the Subban affair. Sets the organizational tone, motivates the player to prove things, and keeps that ALL IMPORTANT bridge contract in play for Montreal - which will make us a better team than any club that doesn't bridge because we'll automatically be able to afford more.
Does it make his next contract more expensive? Yes. What would he have gotten? 6? Now he'll get 7 or so? Not seeing that as a big deal in the grand scheme especially compared to setting that organizational tone I mentioned.
This is well said...
Habs trade Sven Andrighetto to Colorado
in Habs & Hockey Talk
Posted
Julien ready to treat the remainder of the season like the pre-season with so many guys fighting for a shot.