Zowpeb

Well...I agree with a lot of these grades except I thought Subban handling deserves a B...it was the right move. I also think the Price signing was a great move...probably a B...kid is still only 25 and a goalie you want to continue to build around. If Subban is now signed to a similar deal and fades then you'll be crying about that next season. Why the difference?

I can't believe some of the trade proposals posted here...take off the homer goggles guys. Some were so badly lopsided that you should immediately have to take penance. Those Kane Byfug-alien deals were not even close...how a couple posters would think they are close to fair is...well...some sort of collective group stupidity that can only be bred when fans are talking. Someone even said this team was "stacked" at center...if by stacked you mean we have 4 guys that can play the position with 1 being a legit top 6, one was a rookie playing wing, one looks like he might, just may be, a good 2nd line C and one is a small overrated playmaking C who is the kind lower seeded playoff teams have but real contenders don't... Did someone honestly say Chris Stewart would be our best player? Really? Plekanec, Patches, Subban, Markov are easily worth more...Briere is a better player right now too. Having said all that, I think the reason so many want a premier addition, like Kane, is a recognition that this team is not structured well and, while it has some good pieces, it is still short by a couple very good players from being legitimate. Last playoffs were proof of the smoke and mirrors from their regular season and while perhaps many won't openly admit it those comments betray that we just aren't good enough yet. It's interesting no one has mentioned the Cap through those comments. We're right up against it, per capgeek, and next couple years require significant raises to many young players. We are against the cap with a lot of "mid-tier" talent. Who is managing the talent chess board and why are we slotting so many $4M to $5M guys...we need a couple legit $7M guys (Subban is going to be one) and we need to jettison DD and Bourque to make room for next off-season. Then Gionta, Bouillon, Moen all need to be go (cube and Gio are expiring anyway) to pay for Subban, Emelin, Eller...and Briere leaving in a couple years will cover raises to Gallagher and Galchenyuk (assuming they've earned it as expected). The salaries of DD and Bourque right now are the blockers to improving this team properly...

Well...I'll admit to not knowing much about our picks but I will say this about draft philosophy and our 1st round selection which has been receiving mixed reviews: When you draft in the late first round your chances of securing a top 6 player are not significantly greater then finding someone between rounds 2 - 4. Perhaps the only difference is that your late first round pick has a greater chance of being an NHL regular but no greater chance of necessarily being a top 6 player. That's admittedly anecdotal and based on just a general perusal of past drafts. When you pick in the late first round you're finding kids with a couple of decent tools (could be defense, skating, hands, vision, whatever) and/or the athletic ability to build those tools. Based on that I think this kid fits that mold based on what I'm hearing and reading in the reports...and I generally trust the Habs scouts who've done a reasonable job in drafts. My concern is usually with player development after we draft...the team sometimes rushes players and/or has kids playing in the wrong roles in the minors. Either way, this kid is going to see playing time under the a great coach next year regardless which team he ends up at. Glad to see them pick up a goalie this year...hopefully they give that kid 4 years in the minors/AHL to really develop properly. Sadly, I think the media will screw the whole goalie thing up for the Habs over that time frame. I can already envision some media types calling for the french Canadian kid to replace, or at least back-up, Price in the next 24 months (which would be ridiculous).

I said most of the year that the Habs were smoke and mirrors...I was pushing for them to sell some guys at the deadline to acquire, hopefully, some 1st round picks - or at least enough to package up and move into the top 5. Sure, we all hoped for the Cup when they were winning. To now see people throw Price under the bus when the team was clearly, in my mind anyways, over performing and overrated is just stupidity. Price is perhaps the easy scapegoat as the goalie...they can throw around GAA as if its an all encompassing stat on goalie performance. All while you can ignore all the other factors/variables. This team has some great pieces to build around. They are clearly: Price, Subban, Emelin, Galchenyuk, Pacioretty...throw in a nice mix of peripheral guys: Gorges, Plekanec, Gallagher, Markov (thank god he can still play). Even if you think Price is not the next coming of Roy/Dryden you still don't move one of the best young goalies in the league unless the package is ridiculously in your favour...and most teams won't overpay for goalies...most also prefer to build their teams around guys from within their organization. IF you are a poster who wants Price moved what do you think they can get for him? Honestly answer that...take a look at what the Leafs just gave up to get Bernier (it wasn't much...and many think the Leafs overpaid). I'd love to see what people think he's worth in a trade if they think he's a poor goalie. If this team had the picks to deal into the top 5...and enough $$$ to sign a couple guys this off-season...they'd be FAR better off going into next year. Instead we'll see another mediocre season and idiots throwing Mtl's top young talent under the bus...all because they are dumber then a bag of pucks and are the reason management is literally afraid to take the necessary steps to build a legit winner. I said it before...they should have blown out the dead weight and/or easily replaced vets: Gionta, Desharnais, Eller, Bourque, Ryder, Bouillon. I'd rather we missed the playoffs with a clear rebuild effort then watch that crap...the 16 team playoff schedule, and just making it has lead to idiocy amongst the fans and media...and allowed management to hide behind the playoff curtain.

This has been argued over and over again...Subban is not underpaid. He got a very reasonable and fair extension given his RFA status and his career to the point of his signing. He is now working to prove he's worth more...and doing a good job of it! This is entirely the point and, really, how any career should begin... Simple economics...something is worth what someone is willing to pay. The RFA structure limits potential bidders allowing teams to gradually explore their prospects ability and develop talent...team investments in their prospects, like Subban, go far beyond the payroll they receive, hence the protection provided by the CBA within the RFA system.

Just because the Bruins were an acceptable location to him doesn't really mean anything at all...if the Habs were interested they should have sought permission to talk to him and his agent.

So, should the Habs have traded something like 2 of Bournival/MacMillan/Holland/Avtsin and a 1st round pick to acquire Iginla?? That would effectively be the equivalent package to Pittsburgh. Assuming of course that he would have accepted a trade to the Habs. IF you feel this is a good year to be "buyers" (which I'm still not convinced of) this would have been a nice add and they kind they should have looked at IMHO. Not only solidfying your top 6 with a veteran power forward who is a good locker room type but keeping him from a competitor like Pittsburgh/Boston.

I continue to be surprised at the emergence of this club. Wildcard is still, IMO, a generous term for the team...I think there has been a lot of smoke and mirrors that, in a short season, will have fans thinking this club is better then it is. Frankly, I can't believe people are talking about trading Leblanc for a bottom 6 grinder...that's beyond ridiculous and flies in the face of building an organization that needs to develop "waves" of young talent throughout it's levels. I'm a little torn about my off-season, and early season, comments to trade guys for picks/prospects...obviously the club is doing well and I have no problem eating crow. But ya know what, I'd still rather see the Habs trade Ryder and Gionta for the best prospects they can because I still don't see this team being close to a contender...and playing for the playoffs is Leafs Hockey. I'd still like to see if then can get a couple 1st rounders and try to deal into the top 3 again. I maintain that this club is playing way over it's head. Outside of Subban, Markov, Pleks, MaxPac, Price, Galchenyuk, Emelin no one should be untouchable...though I like Prust, Gorges and would think they'd need to be blown away to consider dealing some other young guys on the big club...I'm referring primarily to Diaz, Gallagher and Eller. If you were really stuck on "going for it" then I'd want Iginla as a rental.

Hard to argue with this deal...players of similar value statistically, except Ryder is 2 years younger, cheaper and comes off the cap at year end. Plus they get a third round pick. Makes you wonder if Cole would have netted a first round pick... Habs are a mirage this year...I'd have preferred the 1st rounder if it was possible. Either way a great organizational trade IMHO.

Yeah, I think the OP is underestimating O'Reilly and Johnson in his analysis. Both are also better fits in the Habs line-up...Eller and Leblanc are looking like the odd-man out at C with 2 out of Pleks, DD and Galchenyuk forming what is likely the next 4 years there on the top 2 lines. Plus, if you are getting young players back it's hardly gutting the farm needlessly. I'd agree if they were 30 year old vets your trading for... However, I do agree this team needs a better long term approach. CC noted that some fans want to "tank" and that it's not realistic. I firmly disagree and, as I've stated previously, this is the year you want to "tank". There are mid-tier vets like Cole and Gionta that could be dealt for picks in a short season to help try to get the Habs another top 5 pick (another forward please). I think given the current core of young players already on the Habs combined with a decent draft last year means the Habs are actually quite close to setting themselves up to be highly competitive for a number of years...with waves of youth coming up for the next 2-3 years and the cap room to compliment that with high quality vet acquisitions. That is EXACTLY how Philly, NJ, DET and others do it...admittedly, they've developed prospects better and managed their veteran talent to acquire youth in a better way then the Habs. But that also highlights their commitment to not only short term performance but shows they keep their eye on the long term stability of their organizations.

This ^

Yes...and I have an IPhone and IPad (work related...). FWIW.What separates Apple beyond marketing and their culture? Their hardware is not best in class (its good, and was at that level once but they are no longer category leaders and where they are great there are now others). Their software is not best in class. Their privacy and mobile security is not the greatest. Even their PC and laptop security is not great...just that there are so few users that they are largely ignored by hackers. So, you tell me, beyond the illusion of their app store, what makes Apple better then most? The Apple claim to fame is user interface IMO...and that's easily copied (and it has been by most competitors). Without a major innovation I don't see how they can hope to hold share. They've gotten even more arrogant, if possible. And, instead of offering varying phones, at different cost levels, they are leaving their back door open to imitators. These competitors will eat into the bulk of their market share, while Apple hold their noses high and think its a lifestyle or philosophy instead of business...and then shareholders will turn on them.

Most ridiculous "ban" ever...didn't impact the team concept and didn't hurt teamates. Sounds to me like our sissy, all inclusive, left liberal world, is creeping into to pro sports now...maybe next we can get rid of the Stanley Cup and give every team ribbons because it's more inclusive. It will teach young fans that there really are no winners and losers in life...that is, right before we force communism down their throats enforcing equal pay for every job and ensuring there are no property rights for anyone because the state will distribute it more fairly. It's actually all a communist plot and Therrien is the dupe. Whoa...I think I was just possessed by Don Cherry.

Apple did well because they became a trend for 2-3 years and over that time had people get locked into 3 year contracts...as those contracts end over the next 2-3 years it will be interesting to see how many people switch away from them to Samsung, BB, HTC, etc... Apple is going down IMHO. Their entire culture is built around fluff and their fanboys will eventually flock to the next big thing. Their entire premise is based on Apps...most of which are developed for Android too. While it's unlikely BB won't get to 700,000 apps anytime soon I can see them doubling and getting the next top 70,000 or so apps crossed over to them and then just committing to the popular types going forward. Plus, I think too much is made of the number of apps available...seriously, who ever looks through 700,000 apps? People just use the genius feature, word of mouth or try to look up something specific...more then 2/3 of those 700,000 apps on Apple and Android are old, useless or specifc to a company (my company has 6-7 apps for employees and customers that aren't available to the public...there are likely 20,000+ companies with multiple apps like that). Blackberry is a well known brand in North America despite dropping in market share here as Apple and Samsung took over...but they are huge outside of north america and analysts here seem to conveniently ignore the importance of that. Plus so many funds, analysts and media corps have HUGE stakes in Apple so you will always read articles bashing BB or Android phones...they can't afford to have Apple take a huge tumble. Some mutual funds are holding 7% of their assets in Apple...and by some I mean dozens of multi-billion dollar funds. You think analysts in anyway connected to this stuff is going to allow BB or Samsung to take Apple's share? Also of note, yahoo is also notorious for bashing BB with articles that are often very lopsided and not even based in reality...apparently some Yahoo execs and board members have some close ties to Apple. This crap really irritates me because it creates stock bubbles for individual firms. Don't get me wrong, Blackberry didn't innovate enough to keep up and lost sight of the importance of the software and Apps. But they're worth a good bit more then $12 a share IMO...in the same way that Apple's stock price is grossly over-inflated.

When I heard those quotes I interpreted it as more of a commentary on how the media shouldn't make it about one guy and there is an entire team here...maybe I'm wrong, I honestly haven't followed all the quotes in context or detail. I saw it as the media comes in before a game and starts talking about Subban as though they can't live without him and how do they feel about his return...Gorge effectively says he's happy to focus on hockey and Markov says the guys not in the room and he's getting ready for a game (ergo, we don't want answer stupid questions about a player that's not here yet so piss off). The media then tries to spin it into "locker room trouble" and how the vets don't like Subban. The fans feed the trolls and the media is happy so they keep on that track until it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. This really is typical of Montreal's media whores...so I just assume that's what's happening here.

I'll pass that along to every guy I know who went through a mid-life crisis because of work and family pressures...lol Just tell them that it's okay...they could have become psychological wrecks if they were famous and rich pro athletes because of all the money, women and other privileges. Seriously, the pressures faced by a pro athlete may be different, as they are different with many jobs, but it doesn't mean people don't face pressures every day. Tell that to the sales guy who has pressure to meet numbers or even earn a commission to make pay. Or doctors/nurses who literally have peoples lives in their hands. Or engineers who have to ensure the building doesn't fall down. Or the customer service guy who essentially gets yelled at every day since he's the first call when there is a problem. Everyone deals with different forms of stress/pressure at work...pro athletes at least get better perks along the way. And everyone can use friends and families to lean on when it gets rough...

While I don't think Joe's example made any sense and I don't agree with his perspective generally...I don't really agree that it's apples and oranges. Why should a "mundane job" be considered different? Lots of people upgrade their training, take work home with them, have pressure to perform for varieties of reasons and many work more hours per week. What is it that separates the pro athlete's job from someone elses? These guys train, play a sport and deal with the pressure to perform for a paycheque the same as everyone else...the difference is that their paycheque is larger. Not really sure I follow the logic that implies they are on some sort of pedestal.

New BB10 looks pretty good...priced well too. Can't wait till my Iphone contract is up this year. So sick of Apple products and there entire approach to the customer (or what they so obviously view as lemmings given their treatment of us)... On a side note: I'm not sure BB stock was ever worth the $200 that it hit once upon a time. I'm also pretty sure it's worth more then $13-$18 as it is today given their market position globally...if there was ever a time to look at how wall street analysts try to "game the market" then look at how biased their positions are in this market. Not to mention how US centric their view point is for businesses that are truly global. Pretty crazy.

Agreed...most players on the team likely don't care and some probably laugh along with Subban. You might have a couple guys that want him to "tone it down" but that doesn't mean they don't like the guy. I like his passion and, so long as it doesn't cross the line of poor sportsmanship (which I really haven't really seen...at least anymore then what is the norm), I think he's fine. Again, it's just the media looking for a story...and the casual fan is what usually feeds into those stories. You can spot them usually because they are written by a columnist and not an analyist or journalist...and they're usually filled with opinions designed to generate SOME controversy.

This ^ is well said. Media just looking for a story on that stuff...no surprise in Montreal. More columnists then legit journalists...they are all fighting for a story even if they have to make one up or twist half-truths into outright lies.

To get a fair comparison you can't compare Subban to ALL defencemen in the NHL. Some are entry level players, some in RFA years and some in UFA years. Get a list of d-men who signed RFA level contracts after only 2 years in the league and compare Subban to them. You might have, what, a dozen legitimate comparisons of the past 2-3 years. From there, I'd guess it's maybe around 3-6 guys that you can draw a reasonable performance comparison to as being in the same ball-park. All this was already discussed ad nauseum with guys like Carlson, Del Zotto, etc being mentioned...and a few folks thinking they could bring Doughty in as a comparable which is just crazy. If a young university student graduates school and gets a job he isn't, and shouldn't, be paid the same as his more experienced peers. Subban is starting his career...he'll make more in a couple years...and even more again once he becomes a UFA. Like EVERY other player in the NHL and, really, no different then the rest of the working world (other then the fact that these guys make 10 - 100 times more then most per year...lol). I still can't believe people don't get the basic premise of the entry level and RFA deals...must be the youth/union crowds that have been spoon-fed and/or haven't really started working yet.

Seriously? If he feels so bad that he holds a grudge and doesn't want to re-sign then you don't want him on the team. He's a professional and knows this is a business. The Habs know full well they'll have to pay more, and longer, if he continues to grow as a player and compete at a high level...but it was an unwarranted risk to do so now and would have set a dangerous precedent for future RFA signings. This deal is perfect for both Subban and the Habs.

And when he tries to negotiate he'll have one more season then Subban, and playing at a higher level every year, to prove he's worth a longer term deal at bigger $$$...though I find it highly unlikely he'll get $7M per unless it's a 10 year deal (which I doubt STL would do given their market constraints).

My preference has been to have him play in the minors for the remainder of the year. He get's a full season instead of a bunch of extra games...get's to play more minutes per game and work on aspects of his game (eg. face-offs, two-way, individual moves, etc) without the pressure. The NHL games and camp probably helped him identify those deficiencies and he can then work on them in junior. I still maintain that this is a write off year and my fear is that he's actually going to help bring the Habs from being a 10th place type of team to an 8th place type of team...and I still believe we're better off in the lottery (and hopefully with a top 5 pick). No one wants the team to be bad ever...but if there is a year to suck it up for a rebuild this is a deep draft and comes on the heels of an already great draft for the organization. One more draft like that could be the recipe that makes this club a long term contender again. I'm willing to live with essentially half a year of crap hockey again if it helps set them up for the next 5-7 years. If he stays, he needs at minimum the equivalent of 3rd line ES minutes so long as he's not being rolled out as the shut-down C against teams top line too routinely. I think that would be a development mistake to have him in that role. I also think he should also be getting heavier PP minutes if he stays...

So clearing out Gomez, Gionta and Cole's salaries and signing say a Getzlaf and Horton wouldn't be an upgrade?? And the whole point of clearing those salaries was to upgrade them...not saying I don't like Gionta and Cole but they're probably the best assets to acquire the extra draft picks I mentioned. As for some of these guys not wanting to sign here...just idle speculation. Thanks to dlbalr for the update on those already extended.