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Zowpeb

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Everything posted by Zowpeb

  1. Sure...but there are usually 3 of those $7M types most years...and another 3-5 of the $5-$6.5M types. And I'd say there are usually less then a dozen teams with the money to sign a guy like that in any given off-season. Cap management is crucial...it has to be done efficiently and with the highest degree of efficacy they can manage. It's why you don't just sign a guy like Subban because of fan/media sentiment...and why you don't pay a guy superstar dollars simply because he might, one day, in the future, maybe, become a superstar. The question is term length and pricing future value. H
  2. Commandant...that's assuming their offer sheet isn't above the threshold requiring them to give up more. You also need to consider that it's not just acquiring those picks...you also keep $6M in cap room which allows you to sign a pretty good UFA at that number. Ryan Suter and Zach Parise signed for only $1.5M more then that number last summer. Shane Doan and Matt Carle signed for under $5.5M last summer. Adding those picks (even from a team that is likely in the bottom third of the draft rounds) PLUS a UFA of that level is really what you need to consider.
  3. That would be ridiculous for Subban...he'd leave a lot of future earning potential on the table. Subban WILL one day be worth $6M per year...basic cap inflation alone will push salaries up, though I'm confident he'll eventually be that good even in today's dollars. Why would you want this if you're Subban? The issue is that the Habs shouldn't COMMIT to paying the big future dollars yet. Too much changes in how they need to organize the team.
  4. If Subban was to get an offer sheet at that level the Habs would certainly match it. It's really the only leverage, outside of sitting out, that Subban has to get a long term deal he wants. However, why would Philly waste their time signing him to an offer sheet the Habs would surely match? They gain nothing and it's a waste of their time and effort. The only way someone signs Subban to an offer sheet is if they think they have a chance of not only Subban accepting it BUT that the Habs may not match...that will require over $6M per year for probably 7 years. I don't see any team making th
  5. I'm just stunned at some posters around here who simply refuse to understand simple economics, RFA vs UFA status, and how it relates to player value. Our education system is seriously failing... This team has a salary cap. Therefore payroll obligations are finite and limited...when you pay more then you need to then you take away available money to sign other talent. Therefore your team is going to be worse. Not hard to understand folks. This has nothing to do with Subban's results the past 2 years...it has everything to do with his lack of leverage to negotiate. If he gets $4M per yea
  6. I have no problem with Subban, through his agent, negotiating hard and trying to get the right deal for him. I don't hold it against him...especially when there was essentially a limited time frame to negotiate due to the lock-out. I think Bergevin knows the team isn't that strong and he's likely to be in the lottery at the draft. I think he's willing to let a few games slide if it means he's in the top 5-6 picks again. I also think if the team surprised and came out strong he'd be comfortable dragging out a negotiation even longer. He's completely in the drivers seat and it's really a no
  7. This is absurd. He can think whatever he wants but he has no leverage to negotiate a better contract then veteran UFA's. If he doesn't like it then he should complain to the NHLPA. It remains to be seen if he's better then Markov and, fwiw, the Habs didn't sign Kaberle to that ridiculous deal... Signing a player to a signficant deal when you can sign them to a cheaper deal is not a calculated gamble...it's just stupid. Your Apple stock comment makes no sense...the correct analogy is that you would have paid the equivalent of Apple's share price TODAY in 1998 simply because you thought it
  8. I thought Subban had a good year...thought Gorges was the more valuable d-man. Admittedly different roles. Also noteworthy that Emelin and Diaz were rookies, Kaberle and Weber are mediocre at best...so you think Subban was the best of a pretty poor bunch. Don't get me wrong, I think Subban will be a very fine player. I just think the whole love in and guys wanting him signed at crazy numbers is just beyond insane. I know you aren't suffering fanboy syndrome like some but I believe Price was clearly more valuable then than Subban is today.
  9. Except paying those guys as your top 6 now means you aren't going to have a quality team for 2-3 years, at least, since they aren't yet at their peak. Further it's probable that those early signing risks don't all pan out as well as planned and you are stuck with 2-3 overpaid players. Most top teams pay a top 6 group of guys that kind of money BUT they also leverage a few quality young guys who are also CHEAP because of their RFA status. I hope to god that some of you who advocate overpaying now because Subban is a nice guy...and has the potential (please look up what that means) to be ver
  10. If you pay an RFA at UFA market levels you are hurting your ability to remain competitive in a salary cap world. Subban has NO CHOICE but to sign with the Habs or try to find an offer sheet to force their hand. Why would you want to pay more then you should when payroll dollars are a limited resource in the NHL??? Imagine paying Price, Pacioretty, Subban, Galchenyuk and say our next 1st round draft pick all at $6M+ within 2 years...instead of the RFA deals where they are manageable...that's almost half your salary cap on 5 guys. You wouldn't be able to surround them with any quality UFA's.
  11. I think it's certainly arguable that Subban is better then Price of the same time...Price was still regarded as being in the top 2-3 of young goaltenders in the sport at a position that plays every minute of a game and where each team only has 2 of them in a game as opposed to 6 d-men who play 15-22 minutes a game. You could easily argue that Price had more organizational importance and even that his results leading up to that point were as impactful. JMHO.
  12. Why would you overpay a player when the ONLY team that is bidding on his services is YOU. Does that make sense to you? If he is signed to an offer sheet by another team then the Habs have a choice. No team is going to sign him to an offer sheet that the Habs would easily match (ie. no one signs him to a $5M offer sheet)...they would sign him to a very long and significant deal. So, does a team think that signing Subban for over $6M a year for 7+ years is a good move? If he is signed to that kind of deal then the Habs have a choice...either they do it or let him go in what is a defacto tra
  13. Those points are less meaningful then the fact Subban and his agent can't create much of a competitive market. It is hard to see a GM put out an offer sheet on Subban given the lock out that just ended. But it's really the only way they can force the Habs hand. If someone offers Subban a $6.2M offer sheet I'd let him walk and take the picks.
  14. Pretty sure he was saying $8M over a 2 year period which is hardly delusional...I assume you were thinking he meant $7m to $8m per year...which would indeed be crazy.
  15. Give him his 5 games and send him back to the minors. Trade Bourque, Cole and Gionta this year for draft picks/prospects at the deadline (when is that this year??)...replace them at that point with Leblanc, Palushaj and Gallagher (or whoever else is playing well in the AHL) for the remainder of the season. Attempt to trade up into the top 3 picks again to get another top shelf young Forward (assuming we don't finish there...lol). Next year you have Galchenyuk and the newly drafted top 3 guy. Go out and sign a couple of top 6 UFA's to replace Cole and Gionta...which, honestly, should be doa
  16. blah...an average of $4.5M a year offer over 4 years is very fair and probably slightly more then he should get at this point. Just go there and be done with it. If he doesn't like it then offer him 2 years at $4M per...if he looks good over those 2 years he'll have a chance to renew with a bigger raise for a longer time frame. If he wants longer term security then his agent needs to understand they aren't going to pay him TODAY for the player he MAY become...they need to make that known. If someone wants to throw him an offer sheet (which I think would skewer that GM so soon after the lo
  17. Yeah...cause the >46% marginal tax rate isn't good enough...lmao. If you have an income level that qualifies you as "rich" then you pay more then your fair share of taxes across this great country...even moreso in provinces like Quebec. I hope to god they find a way to keep Gomez off the team and that Galy finds a way to play himself onto the club in a meaningful role. Frankly, I'm still hoping the Habs find a way to set themselves up for another strong draft this year, even at the expense of what is effectively a write off season in my mind. Sure, there will be a playoffs and champion
  18. For one thing Subban won't get you Yakupov by himself. I think the sentiment of homerism in believing that is insane...and I love watching Subban play. But no way he is worth the top overall draft pick on his own. So, yes, if it was even a remote possibility to do that deal straight up then you do it. I'm actually shocked anyone would want to do otherwise. As for D depth...they simply clear some salary space and sign a top 4 dman...at worst they have a mediocre to average D for this season. The Habs D without Subban is terrible if Markov comes back...not a top 10 group but Gorges, Mark
  19. Can't believe someone said Bourque was overrated...wow...I hate the Bruins but lets give credit where it's due. I hope all the people in here that think the Habs should open up the pocket book big time, for a lengthy period, based on a "maybe", and at a time where he has limited leverage in the negotiation, are never running a business. I'd hate to see your household budgets. As a fan, I don't care if the team spends max dollars from a cost standpoint...in fact, I prefer it. However, I do want them to spend those dollars intelligently in a cap environment.
  20. It's not silly at all...Taylor Hall was the #1 pick overall and jumped directly into the NHL. There is a big difference between these two players. Comparing the players and their situation is, frankly, pretty ridiculous. There is NO REASON to pay Subban over $4M. Period. They have NO REASON to pay him huge dollars because he MIGHT live up to being a $6M/year player. If he lives up to that level then you pay him to that level. GM's who pay for MAYBE are doomed to failure because they lock up salary in some players that don't fully pan out as expected. If the RFA structure was not as it
  21. Vlasic signed this summer for 5 years $21m...he's more then $3.5m per now... I think you need to put forward a few more reasons why Myers and Hedman are better comparables. You look like you are just ignoring the other guys because they don't make your case. Hedman and Myers were also both high first round picks so they started off with higher entry level salaries and, since future salaries rarely go down, it's no surprise their current pay is slightly higher. Bogosian, Edler and Vlasic all played pretty equal minutes to Subban give or take. All were providing similar offensive producti
  22. Couple things... I don't buy into the concept of Price having an uneven development history...the kid has excelled at every level he's played in, including the NHL, when that contract was being written. I think you paid too much attention to the critics and not enough to the kids history of performance. Yes, any team would be happy to sign Subban at that price BUT he's an RFA so they don't have his rights and know fully well that the Habs would match. So he won't get an offer sheet at that level...the only way someone puts an offer sheet to him is if they do it at a level that the Habs MAY
  23. I apparently have higher hopes then some of you with Leblanc...I don't think he was as far along the development curve as some thought before making the move to Hamilton but that doesn't mean he's nothing more then a checking line C (albeit a good one if you think he's got 20 goal potential). One thing I did want to address...Kris Draper was incredibly overrated. He was a good checking C that happened to play on a team with a very good top 6, very good D and good goaltending. That's it...let's all take a deep breath and stop sugar coating the checking line guys...unless you want to sound li
  24. How can the kid get meaningful minutes at C with DD, Pleks and Eller there? Without a good answer to this you don't bring him up and shuffle him around positions, line-mates and minutes all season. In Montreal that is a recipe to having fans and media calling him a bust...if you think a 19 year old is as mentally mature as a 25 year old, or even a 23 year old, you are crazy. Coming back to play in the playoffs is no comparison to playing them after a full regular season...even in junior. I'm all for challenging a prospect to overcome adversity and face fresh challenges...but they also ne
  25. I think you let the kid play in the minors, maybe give him the proverbial 5-10 game cup of tea at the start, and evaluate how you want to move forward with Pleks, DD and Eller for the following season...maybe deal one of them at the deadline or next off-season to move up the draft board. Not to mention potentially using assets like Cole for the same... The Habs too often rush prospects...here's a great young prospect, likely one of the best in the draft, who missed almost an entire season and people want to see him on the Habs out of the gate. Seriously, let the kid play in the minors to de
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