The Chicoutimi Cucumber
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Posts posted by The Chicoutimi Cucumber
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With Rafalski retiring and Lidstrom probably only going to play for at most one more year, I really hope that PG gets Markov signed quick. If he's still available on July 1, I think Detroit will not only jump at getting him signed, they will probably be willing throw 5 years and $6M at him. He would be a perfect fit there.
Like I said in an earlier thread, the habs already made a mistake with Chelios after he had a couple of knee operations and that was supposed to be one of the reasons Serge Savard dumped him for a washed up Denis Savard. Chelios only went on to play for around another 18 years!!! I sure hope the habs don't make the same mistake with Markov. I wouldnt hesitate to sign him to a front loaded 5 or 6 deal averaging $5m ($6.5m $6m, $6m, $4m,$4m, $3.5m). If he does get injured again and is out long-term and is forced to retire it's not much of a gamble, because like Rafalski he would have been under 35 when he signed and we wouldn't be on the hook for the reaminder of his cap hit - unlike the idiotic 3 year deal Gainey gave to Spacek, were we are stuck with Spacek for another year, despite him pretty much being washed up in the second year of the deal.
I also think with Detroit suddenly having all that extra cap room the cost of free agent dman just got higher. I really wish PG got the Markov deal done earlier, beacuse like i said, I don't think Detroit will hesitate to sign him for$6m+. I think Wiz and Bieksa just saw their value go up as well.
Yeah, I'm not sure why the Habs seem to like to wait until the last minute to lock up the guys they want (although I concede that this is common enough practice - look at the Canucks re-signing the Sedins at the 11th hour; and I suppose it's possible that even where both sides want a deal done, it's in the advantasge of the player to push it down to the wire for the purposes of getting the best deal). I certainly hope that when the time is right they will lock up PK and Price in the way that the Flyers did with Richards. But as for Markov, I'm not too worried; he had a great opportunity to go UFA earlier in his career at a time when the Habs sucked much worse than they do now, and he made it pretty clear he wanted to stick around. I'm pretty sure the Habs's players believe they can contend. So while I'm sure his agent will use all the leverage he can the likeliest outcome is #79 remains with us. The size of his contract is another question.
The extra $3 mil on the cap could make a big difference for us in terms of either dumping Gomez to a team that needs to reach the floor, or in terms of adding a forward with size, or even signing Wiz. We'll see.
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Damn useless MAB, and empty net goal for the Bruins. I really don't get why anyone wants this guy. He's usually good for one goal a game and at least 2-3 scoring chances. The problem is that it's usually for the opposition!!
MAB's a specialist. Those kind of players are both tantalizing and incredibly frustrating. C.f. Sheldon Souray. A poor PP can destroy your team's chances of even making the playoffs; MAB's defensive play can ruin your chances of winning once you're there. Indeed, you could make an argument that a truly strong team will not carry such players - it's a sign of organizational inadequacy that you have to 'make do.'
In any case, I prefer to see the Bruins advance because I think they have a better chance than Tampa Bay of beating Vancouver. Ultimately, though, no one will defeat the Canucks, barring injury.
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In the glory days, the Habs' position was always that they would choose the best player, but if two players were comparable, then all other things being equal they would pick the French one. I don't think anybody would have a problem with that.
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35+ contract. He counts against the cap whether he's in Montreal, Hamilton, or retired.
Doh, I knew that
Clearly my brain has gone into 'Summer Cucumber' mode. Carry on. -
Which is why I want Gomez gone next year!! Look at the canucks D, they have every pairing with a strong puck moving D man, great balance of physicality and offensive ability on their blue-line. If we could have the following pairings:
Markov-Emelin
Subban-Gorges
Wiz-Weber
We could have Gill as the 7th D and if Diaz shows he can make the jump from Hamilton to the NHL, we have someone else to challenge Weber. In a couple of years, if Weber/Diaz show that they can supplement Wiz, we have a tradeable asset that bring back a return in Wiz.
We could potentially have the best D in the league. If we eat Gomez's contract THIS YEAR and find a taker for Spacek and Moen, we would have enough money to resign Wiz, Markov and Gill AND get another BIG centre that could fill the Gomez role or be a 3rd line guy if Eller shows is ready to step up to be a #2 centre. This would ALSO leave enough money to sign a guy like Jagr to a one year deal. This flexibility is NOT going to be there next year when Subban, Price and potentially Eller are due raises.
Forwards could potentially be:
Cammy-Pleks-Jagr
Gionta-Eller-MaxPac
AK46-Laich-Desharnais
White-UFA/Hamilton player - Cheap UFA/Hamilton player
At this point i really don't care if Gomez does "Break out" to have a 65 point season as has been suggested (if he gets 50 assists and 15 goals playing with MaxPac and Gionta). I'd rather get someone else who is cheaper can give us a reliable 50-55 points AND allow us to address our other holes. We have a window next year to really re-shape our defense AND bring in a one year rental like Jagr while Price and Subban are still cheap. Why not use that window in the upcoming year by getting rid of Gomez now, rather then the following year then when Price and Subban are due raises and we can't bring in the additional rentals like a Jagr
I realize Jagr is not the 50 goal, 100 point Jagr of days past, but if he can provide a physical presence like he did during this past WC, score 25-30 goals and 60 points for $4M, I'll take that over Gomez's 65 points playing with Gionta and MaxPac for a $7.2M cap hit any day of the week.
Everything we want to do going forward is limited by the anchor that is the useless Scott Gomez and the slow and old Spacek eating away $10.7M from our cap. So whether we are talking about adding a backup goalie, another Defensemen, more forwards, these two HAVE to be part of the discussion.
Ya know what? You make a good case. And if they move Gomez this season, I won't cry about it, that's for sure. However, the lack of any good internal replacement (there might be no surer way of ruining Eller in particular than asking this of him at this stage)along with (perhaps) a desire to be perceived by the room as having been fair to Gomez, as well as his actual take-home salary this season as opposed to next summer when it drops, all lead to a move next summer as being more realistic. This doesn't mean that dumping him know wouldn't be better, though.
As for Spacek - his salary is conceivably more digestable for Molson; why has sending him to the minors not been more discussed?
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A lot of this particular round of Gomez talk stems from analysis of the cap crunch we are likely to face in 2012 when Price et al. are up for new contracts. I expect that people will flip out when I say this, but for my money this is an abstract future problem and should not really inform decision-making today, nor should fans get worked up into knots about it. I say this because of my wider philosophy of cap management, which, as may be familiar by now, is to sign who you want NOW and ruthlessly purge as necessary later (C.f. Chicago, Philly, even Vancouver). Habs29 is absolutely correct that Gomez's production would be easy to replace, so in a way we will be in a good position by next season - able to move heaven and earth to ship him out and toss Eller or Desharnais or some mediocre/cheaper UFA into the vacuum. Meanwhile, keep him around for next season; if he recovers his game, so much the better, because when he is playing well he is a very useful player. In short, his contract is crippling longer-term but not apt to be a franchise-crushing millstone THIS season.
I was encouraged to read that Gauthier has been negotiating with Wisniewski. Although the likelihood is that it's just exploratory, this shows that management has its head on straight - not just dismissing options out of hand because of the cap, as some fans tend to do, but willing to diligently explore every avenue to sign and keep the players we need. Conceivably this is even a signal that Gauthier is willing to exceed the cap in the summer and make the murderous choices to get back under it by fall, which is exactly the attitude I support. It's a long shot...but imagine if we had Wiz, Markov, Gorges, PK, AND Emelin, along with Weber and whomever? Holy crow. If Emelin pans out that's a Cup-worthy D.
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I disagree. Aside from a few stars, the best of the rest from Quebec wouldn't be all that much different from a bottom feeding NHL team. Players should play their hearts out for whatever team they're playing for; if they have to be on their hometown team to try, I know as a fan I wouldn't want them on my team, be it Montreal, Toronto, or Tuscaloosa. There's just a lack of Quebec-based talent right now, it's hard to fault the organization for not having too many locals on the Habs as a result as their priority should be to get the best players possible. And it's not as if there aren't many in the organization, the Habs have a lot of Quebecers in the system relative to most of the other teams. But as is the case with the NHL ratio, a lot of them just aren't any good. A team full of Darche's may be nice to have in terms of identifying with some hometown heroes but they're not going to win squat aside from a high draft pick.
It's too bad we missed Claude Giroulx. But other than that, yeah, you're spot-on; and I fear it's sadly typical of Quebecois commentators to blame the Habs rather than look inward for reasons as to why Quebec talent has dried up.
The real issue for me is not the lack of francophone players (although I'd love a francophone star as much as the next guy), it's the pressure the organization faces to have francophones in key managerial positions (specifically, coach and GM). That we could no longer hire Scotty Bowman seems to me pathological. Then again, one could argue that anyone can acquire adequate language skills to answer a few media questions with a little effort; and I do sometimes wonder why the idea of learning a bit of French is simply ruled out of court for would-be Habs coaches/GMs. It probably has to do with the anti-intellectual jock culture of hockey. In any case, when people point out how far the Habs have fallen since the glory days, they should remember that those glory days occured because the Habs were able to hire the best people in key positions instead of being an affirmative-action program for French Canadians. Everything now hinges on sheer luck, such that the small number of francophone GMs/coaches out there just happen to be among the best in the business.
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http://www.hockeyinsideout.com/news/boivin-tells-it-like-it-is
Just to rekindle some old controversies! The signal is pretty clear: the requirement that the Habs hire francophone coaches/GMs puts the organization at a serious competitive disadvantage. I am surprised to find Boivin, a vigorous advocate of the 'francophone' principle in Habs' management, stating this so bluntly. Interesting.
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HF is counting prospects with NHL potential. The best players on AHL teams are often players like Boyd and Dawes that will never be NHL stars.
Montreal's best prospects right now are Palushaj, Leblanc, Tinordi, Kristo. None of them are expected to be stars (more like 2nd liners). They certainly aren't nearly as deep as they used to be.
Well, that's as you'd expect after a season in which several key young guns came up and made the club. Nobody should be too concerned about this ranking. It just means that - as usual - the scouts have to succeed at the draft.
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I don't really get fans sometimes. 'Jagr is a cancer...' etc..
Like we were all there in the dressing room.I'm with BTH. IF Jagr can be had affordably - a big 'if' - and if he has something left in the tank, then we should add him to our roster. Cup rings, massive experience, chemistry with Pleks, size, and (potentially, at least some of the time) world-class skills. I'll take a chance on that, thanks.
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The Bruins are playing tonight because Chara took out Pacioretty? I don't think so. Outside of that hit I don't see where the Bruins have been immoral to such a degree.
More accurately I think, the Bruins are playing tonight because they had better luck on ONE goal vs Montreal and beat an injury riddled Philly with no real goaltender to speak of.
Again, I'm all for some toughness in the Habs roster and look forward to seeing what Yemelin can do.
My eye for an eye comment has more to do with the comments around the boards ( here and elsewhere ) that call for someone to break Chara's ankle etc.
If that's me on my moral high horse, then so be it.
We'll never know how Pacioretty would have done in the series. Given the exuberance, robustness and skill that he showed, I believe he could well have made a difference in a series of close games. One goal is all it would have taken - this from a guy on a 40-goal pace.
I'm not sure about the deterrent value of guys like Pronger and Lucic. Consider that it was the Bruins who lost their #1 C to an outrageous cheap shot; where was the deterrence there? For me, the real issue is simply whether you're going to lay down and let the other team take out your guys, or whether you're at least going to respond in kind. They drop Patches? OK, a few games later, Emelin or whoever drops Bergeron. Suddenly the series takes on a different complexion, because the Bruins have not been allowed to remove a top-line player from the equation with absolutely no ramification. Wamsley is absolutely right that as long as the league wants to reward vicious cheap shots - which is what they do when they allow a player to injure an opponent without suspension - we are simply suckers if we DON'T add a dangerous player or two to the roster. Remember: Chara got exactly the result he wanted. And players like him will continue to do so as long as the league is as criminally negligent as it is.
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Well, we still need to sign Alex. I'm still not ordering my #74 jersey just yet!
Funny thing about his name: in French, apparently it would still be Emelin, so maybe he will skate around as Emelin for Montreal and not Yemelin (English translation of his Cryllic name).
Yeah, Detroit has a lot of finesse, but Kirk Maltby always was a dirty SOB and Kronwall can hit to kill, and the team employs Todd Bertuzzi, a man who shouldn't be allowed to play in the NHL. Plus, Holmstrom is notorious for running goalies and taking late whacks after the whistle. And Abdelkader is not in the NHL for his skill... fact is, with how he played this year you wonder why he was in the NHL at all.
It takes all kinds to make up a NHL team. Pittsburgh led the NHL in fights and employs Matt Cooke, yet the fans here complain about Boston and Philly being the dirtiest teams.
Yeah, I'm beginning to wonder whether we've been led up the garden path YET AGAIN regarding Mr. (Y)Emelin.
Look: Boston deliberately ended the season of our best goal-scorer AND laid two deliberate attempts to injure upon our players in Games 6 and 7 of the first round. All three incidents came from different Bruins. That is a ridiculous ratio and a testament to their being a team of scumbags as opposed to one loony tunes nutter like Cooke. Philly has Richards, Pronger, and a couple of other notoriously dirty guttersnipes. So the rep of those two franchises is well-deserved.
I don't think anyone is arguing that you need a mix of players to win. Still, it IS possible to characterize certain teams as fundamentally 'finesse' teams (Detroit, 1970s Habs). I've never heard of a team winning without any grit, although only the Broad Street Bullies seem to qualify as a team that won without any finesse element (and even they had Barber and Leach). If you ask me, two mean SOBs added to our regular roster would probably suffice.
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damn these injuries just keep on killing us.
Ha ha, I've seen this movie before. Expect Eller to return to the lineup two steps behind everyone else, lose confidence and consequently struggle for the entire season. All the optimism surrounding him after the playoff will dissipate and it will become questionable whether he has a future with us. You heard it here first.
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I think you have made my point. You haven't offered up any "finesse teams" because they don't exist. All teams need a blend of toughness and skill. Bbp has tried to qualify what he said, but has admitted as much. Staying out of penalty box is a no brainer. Some of us on this board, believe that the mix in Montreal should show more GRIT. I welcome a chance to have a look at Emelin and see what he brings.
Detroit is a finesse team. But of course you're right, NO team wins with 100% finesse, and 1-2 mean mofos on the Habs would indisuptably help.
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But this is how Stanley Cups are won. If we all got to wait until a player develops to make our decisions, we would all be GMs.
Everybody looks at things in hindsight and says, wow, what a genius that GM was in allowing veteran A to leave when he had youngster B to fill the hole.
C.C, I don't see optimism in this post, I see "I am going to protect myself from pain, just in case the worst case scenario unfolds" attitude that has permeated through this franchise for the better part of a decade. It happened all season. They are done now that Halak is gone. They are done now that Markov is gone. They are done now that Gorges is gone. They are done now that Pacioretty is gone. They are done now after blowing that 2-0 lead on the Bruins. They are done now trailing 2-1 late in Game 7. They had 9-10 different occasions where the citizens of this board buried them and left them for dead, are we going to spend another season of this?
This team should have beaten the Bruins and now the Bruins are favourites to reach the Cup Final. The Habs have a young core, two potential superstars and now positive rumours of Emelin coming over is met with more negativity.
Over and over this fanbase buries its young before realizing that they are still kicking. What if Markov gets injured again? Well what if Weber is Streit 2.0 and Emelin does come over and is a solid 4th with a mean streak that keeps teams honest? What if Pacioretty returns fully healthy and continues to develop? What if Desharnais is actually a legit top 6? What if Gomez just had a bad season and bounces back to 60 pts? What if Kristo/Tinordi/Leblanc are further ahead than we anticipated? What if Price makes another leap next season?
For every negative possibility there remains an unknown positive that could happen. You are painting a picture like the Habs need their main core to have career seasons like 2008 in order to be good. In September nobody thought Pacioretty would amount to anything or that Subban would be more than a 6th guy easing into the league. Price was a major question mark and most thought he wouldn't be able to handle the pressure.
Every team still playing is getting performances that they didn't expect in September. Tampa didn't even have Roloson. Thomas started the season in a tandem. Couture wasn't expected to be a top 6 forward. Vancouver didn't expect that they would be in the Conference Final with zero production from the Sedins and Kesler playing his face off.
Be positive. You were the one saying this was a stealth rebuild two years ago and now that it is working and you seem to be right, you are pointing out how it could fail. This is the best position the Habs have been in since the 1998 season. I am going to sit back and enjoy. I have spent years looking for reasons they will fail and it didn't make me feel any better when they ultimately did fail,
Ha ha, well consider me abashed
In my defence, though, all I'm really saying is that I'm not sure this configuration is an improvement. You're right that if the young players continue to progress and Markov stays healthy, who knows, we could make a run (and as I recall you and I agreed that the team should have been rated an outside contender even this season). Recalling that my previous (possibly cap-naive) candidates for addition to the blueline were Bieksa or Wisniewski, though, you can see where adding Emelin is a slight come-down.
And note that IF the goal is Rebuild 2.0 this is an impeccable move. Ultimately, though, I think we're better than that. Contention next season is not out of reach if management is deft enough and we get a few breaks. So I'm not content just to see this as a rebuild.
In any case, Gauthier is just getting started so it's waaay premature to draw any conclusions. If Emelin yields cap savings sufficient for us to add a useful extra forward, for instance, suddenly this looks like a superb piece of cap management. I prefer to think of my attitude as 'cautious' rather than as paranoid pessimism
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Personally, I dont see any major changes coming, I think we will have virtually the same roster as the start of last season.
Bieska is NOT leaving Vancouver, we won't sign a big name forward because we won't be letting any of our top six go, plus we tend to be conservative in these situations. We would have been in the top 3 spots had Georges and Markov and various other players not been so injured. I know all teams say this, but honestly we all know how much better Montreal is when we have Markov on the ice.
I believe we have a crew we can make a great run with, especially with the emergence of Pac into what I expect to be a high scoring and incredibly important player for us next season.
Georges sounds determined as nothing else to get back and have a great season, Eller is young and will be improving over the next while also... I'm feeling a come back by Gomez he has seemed ashamed of his play this season, and Cammalerri will produce more if he stays healthy, the injuries really affected him.
No question that if everything goes right, we will contend. But to me that is not a winning recipe. Things will go wrong.
Look at Vancouver. They have 6 legitimate top-4 defencemen. THAT's Cup-worthy depth.
As for Bieksa, the Canucks are capped out, aren't they? They won't be able to afford his raise.
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According to Bob McKenzie, the deal is signed and sealed. If it's true, I now am in the camp of those who believe that the Habs will do everything to keep Markov in Montreal. It means that Wiz, Sopel, Mara and Hamrlik won't be back.
No question, they will re-sign Markov. I have every confidence that they intended to do so regardless of the outcome with Emelin. This is an interesting development, though. I've been fairly relentless in saying the Habs need to add another top-4 guy if they want to contend, whether it be Wiz or someone else. Instead it looks as though they're going
Markov-Emelin
Subban-Gorges
Gill-Weber
Spacek
Whether this is an upgrade depends on Emelin. According to Bozo MacGuire, he is a legitimate top-4 guy 'right now.' But I think BTH is correct, we have to be realistic and expect him to serve more as a #5 guy at least until he finds his feet. For all we know he will end up benched, like Subban was. In any case, this seems to me a somewhat risky strategy; it banks on Emelin becoming a top-4 guy in short order, and on PK continuing to progress, and most crucially, on Markov not getting seriously injured again. Subtract his name from the D listed above and behold: only one guy who has shown he can impact a power play, and that guy is an NHL sophomore. Yikes.
It appears that the Habs's pro scouting has serious faith in both Weber and Emelin. If they're right, then we have a cap-friendly, highly effective D corps. If they're wrong, we're counting on things breaking our way and will likely pay for our optimism. Or else contending this season was never the objective and this is more about quietly rebuiling. In short, I could be happier with the strategy they appear to have chosen, but at least it's interesting and looks promising for the future.
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It sure would be fun to take a flyer on Jagr, assuming he would sign for cheap. Ah well.
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I think over the past two years, I've made it pretty clear how much I liked Sk74. The issue with him was the same with a lot of hab prospects, rushing them through, before they were mature enough to be on the big team and then the team doing a lousy job of dealing with a kid they rushed.
Well, there was clearly an issue with player development under Rebuild 1.0. Only a couple of the heralded young guns we brought up amounted to much. That Gainey fired the entire Hamilton Bulldogs operation in addition to the Montreal coaching staff that had been charged with overseeing the rebuild was a pretty blaring admission of this problem.
Mercifully, the early indicators are that we've turned the corner in this respect.
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and absolutely no heart.
I disagree. Both Grabs and L'il #### were/are fiesty players. The issue with them was whether they are good team players. Clearly they weren't, at that stage in their development. As for Latendresse, meh.
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Id love a Kasparaitis kinda player against some teams but be certain that we would need one or two big guys good at fighting. Do you even dare to think what Boston would do if Yemelin came in and sent someone like Bergeron or Recchi to hospital with a dirty hit?
I dunno...how did they react when Cooke ended Savard's career?
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You gotta be kidding me?? Brian Murray should have been fired for following up the Kovolev signing with signing Gonchar. He is pretty much washed up, is a one dimenstional old Dman. He was great Dman in his day, but he is not an upgrade.
On top of that you want to throw in Weber??? Haven't we already made that mistake by throwing in McDonough AND the rights to the other russian dman (name escapes me now - guy who bolted to the KHL), on top of that. That would mean we gave up three damn good defensive prospects for the honour of taking two has been lousy contracts.
I really don't understand why people are so eager to give upon Weber. I think he can be a solid #3/#4 dman with a great offensive upside in a cojuple of years. Have we not learned from giving up on O'Byrne???
Yes, we should keep Weber. I understand why guys like Grabovski, fatendresse and S. Kostitsyn are playing (with great success) elsewhere - the Habs had a deeply poisonous team culture that had to be radically expunged - I too have had enough of shedding young talent. However, considering that O'Byrne was something like -18 (!) in the second half, I'm not sure there's much to learn from that particular departure. If he'd had those results with us you'd no doubt be howling for blood.
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I'm not 'okay' with dirty hits, per se, but it'll be sweet having a guy like that on a rookie contract... little financial commitment, could play a decent amount of minutes, and if he gets suspended for a few games it doesn't hurt us that much.
Just to be clear - this has gotten me in trouble before - I absolutely despise dirty hits. And I despise the NHL for rewarding teams that deliver them. But I have no desire to martyr the Habs to the NHL's unconscionable folly. Back in the heyday of goon hockey, the habs played with class, but also had enough physical toughness to be able to kick the sh*t out of the Flyers when necessary. In an era of vicious hits, we similarly need to have one or two guys around who can respond in kind. Otherwise we condemn ourselves to dropping line ninepins while our opponents laugh all the way to the next round - while attacking us for the henious sin of 'diving' in the process.
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You want depressing? Think about Nashville, a team lacking in gamebreakers, losing the absolute best forward they've ever drafted to the KHL.
No kidding! That sucks, man.
If Yemelin lays dirty hits, that's OK by me. We're competing against teams like Philly and Boston that have made deliberate attempts to injure an integral part of their success. Having one guy like that around wouldn't hurt us one bit.
Bruins playoff run 2011
in Habs & Hockey Talk
Posted
No, I think Boston is a stronger overall team than Tampa, and their size up front makes them a better matchup against Vancouver's fleet but not especially hulking blueline. You're right beyond that; Boston's policy of deliberately attempting to injure opponents (a policy the NHL chooses to reward) also makes them more likely than Tampa to win (although Vancouver does have Torres, who at least raises the possibility of a tit-for-tat in the injury department). Anyway, like I say, while I give the Bruins a better shot than Tampa, it's still only about a 30% chance; no one is beating the Canucks.
What's funny about Game 7 OT losses is that everyone acts, going forward, as if the outcome was inevitable. I remember a quote from one of the Bruins to the effect that he expected Philly to be more difficult than Montreal because of their size - surely a testamony to the power of ideology (big = good) over reality (which is that the Habs came within one shot of eliminating Boston). Similarly, while Vancouver will be full value for this Cup, it's only by divine grace that they averted the single most catastrophic playoff collapse in NHL history (an OT loss to Chicago after being up 3-0 in the series).
Having said that, the Bruins won 3 of the last 4 against us, so that probably helps to support the narrative of Inevitable Bruins Victory. I also don't think you can infer that we necessarily would have beaten Washington. So yeah, it's frustrating, but there's a big jump from being a Round 1 Game 7 OT loser to reaching the Finals.
Me, I'd rather see Boston win than the Canucks - but then again I live in Vancouver and have to suffer their idiot fanbase on a daily basis.