The Chicoutimi Cucumber

Help me out here...how come when MAB plays for us, he is derided as a disaster in his own end and a veritable liability, but when Yzerman signs him, it's a great managerial move - ?

So much of what goes on on this board is deductive reasoning. We start from an axiomatic first principle (usually either 'the Habs suck' or 'the Habs are good') and all subsequent analysis flows from that. If our first principle is that the Habs suck, then when they outshoot the hell out of the opposition, it doesn't count. (But I'll bet when the Pens and Caps were outshooting us, that was a sign of a crap team being carried by its goalie, right?). Same thing with Price, or Jacques Martin - when there are struggles it 'proves' they stink, when things go well it proves nothing. The fact is that this team is nowhere near as bad as it's shown over December. Slumps happen. The last two games indicate a team that is getting its mojo back. While this doesn't mean that we're the Detroit Red Wings, I don't see how anyone who has watched a lot of hockey can fail to see the pattern. The odds are about 90% that, barring further injuries or a mutiny against Martin, the ship is about to right itself. Of course having written that I probably just jinxed it

That's two games in a row where the Habs have unloaded 40+ shots at the opposition. This is how slumps work - you claw your way out of them, but usually you don't get fully rewarded for better play. Expect the team to string off a few Ws fairly soon.

Ah. Easy as pie

Hammer was overpaid, but he filled a glaring need on our team and has been the heart and soul of the blueline. Without him the magical season of 2008 would never have happened, nor would we have gone so deep in 2010. Frankly I find it strange to read fans acting like that was a bad signing. He may not have been worth the dough in some "objective" sense, but in the context of our team, which had had a crying hole on the blueline for years, he was worth most of those pennies. And I'm with you, I'd re-sign him for two seasons at maybe $2.5 mil. I'll be astounded if Gomer goes anywhere, for all the reasons dlbalr states. In any case, he's playing pretty well now. May as well sit back and enjoy those crazy rushes, we've got another few years of them.

EXACTLY. I'd add, as I have several times before, that JM has a proven track record of developing youth, including several players whose careers tanked after they left his tutleage (Redden, Jokinen). Unfortunately the Martin-haters will never accept this, so one may as well talk to an iguana. As for Kostitsyn, well...I remember seeing an analysis somewhere that did indeed prove that Kostitsyn was statistically an average-to-better-than-average as a #6 forward. I'm sure JM knows this. My impression of Martin is that he punishes players who do not listen and do not follow instruction. Last season he went out of his way to say nice things publicly about AK 46 and proved quite reluctant to yank him from the roster. He may be beginning to turn on the player because he's concluding that the player is not even trying to do what the coaches are asking of him. Incidentally, it's possible that Drache and Moen get top-6 opportunities because the coach is sending a message to the GM about the kind of player he wants/needs. Wouldn't be the first time.

Wiz comes as advertised. A top-4 offensive defenceman Dare I hope that we're already starting to see what I anticipated when we acquired him - i.e., a better all-around game driven from the back end. Really, a strong effort tonight. They had what, 46 shots? Gomez and Gio were playing like their jockstraps were on fire. Let's see more of that!! RDS really f*cked up. What a joke.

But the players actually have to play the frigging system. At present they're not, or at least not effectively. The question remains whether this is a result of JM losing the room, or JM no longer having the horses (given Subban's regression and injuries to Markov and Gorges). If the former, we're in deep doo-doo and the season is basically over. If the latter, then it's a matter of Wisnieski fitting in, Subban finding his game again, and perhaps Gorges coming back. Fingers crossed for door #2.

I suppose the point is that Laps isn't worth much - although I have no idea about Festerling's potential. As for packaging, offhand I don't see too many plausible options, that's all. Hammer, Spacek, Gomez - no one's going to jump at these contracts and it's far from clear that we'd be better off without them. But AK46 is one player who would attract interest IMHO (I assume you're not talking about packaging Gorges, Pleks, or other obviously excellent pieces). In general, I can't see much point in evaluating this as a bad move because it doesn't compares poorly to some hypothetical scenario that might not even be possible. But I may have misread the tone of your post. As you are fairly relentlessly critical of the organization, I took it as another instance of that. If you were just thinking out loud in a mild way, then hey, no harm in that.

Not for one second. :puke:

+1. However, let's wait and see what goes down, before fulminating against it, shall we? And let's remember that JM has given ample ice time to, among others, Subban (notwithstanding the benchings), Pouliot, Pyatt, and Pacioretty. The idea that he automatically restricts youngsters' ice time is a myth. He only shrinks their ice time if he has lost faith in their abilities (O'Byrne), after they've screwed up repeatedly (Subban/Latendresse) - or if he needs to shorten his bench in order to try to win the game. Desharnais probably won't replace either Gomez or Pleks. As surreal as it seems I wouldn't be shocked to find him in Lapierre's slot. If he shows well, though, then it would be no jaw-dropping surprise to find him starting to eat into Gomez's ice time. I really think that's part of the hope here - that young guys can send a subtle message to the struggling vets about their disposability.

You don't think Wisnewski can help? Can we at least wait a few games before dismissing what most appear to see as a legitimate top-4 defenceman acquired for a 50th overall pick? Packaging...well, what are you gonna get for Kostitsyn/Lapierre, that could both help us AND fit under the cap? There's nothing specific to these moves that warrants any kind of strongly negative reaction.

CoRvIna, I had the same thought about Lats. They were buddies and Lats was probably whispering in his ear the whole time. Who knows, this could be viewed as the final (?) piece to fall in the Great Purge of 2009. Laps is replaceable. Those agitated over this move really should take a pill. In any case, the Habs have been very consistent since 2009: you don't like it here, then f*ck off. I support that message, and therefore can't be too upset about this.

Colour me surprised. He's had a disappointing year so far, but I always believed in his merits as an agitator/bottom 6er and I always assumed he'd carve out a long career in that capacity in Montreal. I never pigeonholed him as one of the anti-JM elements, but we might infer that he was indeed one of those. Hard to know what his specific grievance was. It's not as though he's likely to be a top-6 forward and can claim that he was being grossly miscast in Montreal. Anyway - don't look for much in the way of return. QUICK EDIT: http://www.habsinsideout.com/main/42413 His grievance was diminished ice time. I never have much patience with that complaint myself. You want ice, play better and earn it. Oh well.

Starting Auld is a no-brainer. With apologies to Wamsley, I have been opposed to what I regard as the over-use of Price all along. Nobody can play 80 games a season and (potentially) another 20 in the playoffs and be in peak form throughout, least of all in the insane Montreal pressure-cooker. Desharnais is a good call-up. I'm no authority on the Bulldogs, but I tend to pull for this kid, who has had everything stacked against him from day one and responded merely by succeeding at every level. If a mutiny is indeed a possibility, having kids come and play well might shake some of the complacency from the mutineers. And of course, on a less Machiavellian level, the team needs offence, so why not insert a guy whose game is all offence? I just hope he gets more than 5 minutes of ice time. Our big guns are all playing like popguns. I tend to concur with Benoit Brunet that you need to respond, NOT by using them to kill penalties, but by deploying your depth. En tout cas. I'd love to the see team SUCK IT UP and play a tight, desperate playoff-style game. Every win is huge at this particular moment.

2-7...hoo boy, it ain't pretty. I thought it might be useful to consolidate our scattered rants about The Slump here. What I'm mostly interested in is explanations. How does a team go from looking great to being unable to beat anyone? Here's a few thoughts culled from other threads, along with some of my own. Feel free to add your own. 1. The good start was a mirage, conjured up by great play from Price. With Price now being merely good, the team is exposed (I don't accept this myself; the team I watched in October-November was playing a strong, intelligent system, with commitment). 2. The System is too demanding to be sustainable over 82 games. A letdown was inevitable. 3. Slumps happen. They'll get it back. Heck, the first period against TB is the glimmer of an impending turnaround. There is nothing to explain, therefore. 4. Markov hurt + Subban loses his mojo + assorted minor injuries (Gorges) = major crisis on the blueline, followed by a major slump. This seems to me to be the simplest, most obvious explanation - albeit one that seems to be glaringly underplayed in commentaries. If this theory is right, then the addition of the Wiz, healing of Gorges, and the gradual recovery of Subban will likely see us picking up steam pretty soon. I tend toward this view. 5. Something has happened to the team chemistry. I recall that last season we had reports of an internal battle among the players over whether to play JM's (highly successful) system. They wisely rallied around the coach. But these sorts of internal settlements aren't always stable; could be that JM has lost some key support in the dressing room. Or perhaps someone new element like Subban, with his reportedly questionable behaviour, has magnified tensions. Brian raised the mutiny idea in his 'Final Thoughts' tonight. 5 is the scenario that worries me the most. I will say that this team right now reminds me of the 2009 team and last season's club for significant stretches; most of our best players are playing as if they're completely out of it. (Heck, Cammy and Gomer have seemed out of sorts all season). Often when I've seen this in the past, it's a sign of a team with internal problems. I sure hope that's not the case, because I believe that the only way this team will excel is if it follows the model of last spring/this fall. Anyway, let's hear it...

It would be ridiculous to fire JM because of one slump. Gomez has a groin injury, so his current play should not be taken as representative; and furthermore, as we've discussed before around here, even if you could somehow trade Gomez, there's no point in moving him unless you have a quality offensive C to replace him. 'Get rid of X and Y!' is seldom sensible hockey advice. PG has made his move. Let's allow Wiz to get comfortable and grant a few games for his impact to be fully felt before we panic.

Well, like practically everyone else, I think this is a fine acquisition at a pretty acceptable price. Wiz is a right-handed defenceman - a major consideration - who has shown in both Anaheim and New York that he can produce useful offence and bring a physical dimension to our zone. Yes, his +/- is a concern, but that's a team stat as much as an individual one (if you doubt it, check the +/- of players on New Jersey). This acquisition has the potential to ramify throughout the lineup, reducing our dependency on overtaxed veterans and not-quite-ready-for-prime-time rookies. That is the key to this move; although Wiz himself is no superstar, the addition of a top-4 defenceman should, over time, serve to make the entire defence corps play better by removing the nee to use players inappropriately. When Markov went down, I said we'd need to add a top-4 defenceman if we were to have any hope of contending. Given the current play of the team 'contending' now seems optimistic. Yet Wiz will make it significantly easier for the team to restore its commitment to JM's system - which is the vital factor to any success these guys will have. Finally, we have another young-ish defenceman in the system who gives us an added safety net when it comes to the summer. His age is important. Right now we have a D caught in purgatory between declining old age and struggling youth. Wiz fills that gap. Classic Gauthier move. A canny acquisition that, without being a blockbuster, has a good chance of yielding dividends beyond what the player himself would seem to imply. It may take a few games but I would expect the benefits to begin to tell at some point in January. :hlogo:

I'm with you. And for the record, Subban won't learn much stapled to the press box. Just sayin'. This team needs help on the blueline, but at this point I'm just stating the obvious...

I love how people who were not privy to dressing room dynamics presume to know that Ribs HAD to go. In defence of such people, I do recall reading from some credible source somewhere that Koivu and Ribeiro were not on good terms, which suggests that Gainey made a decision to support his captain, and dressing room harmony, by shipping out Ribs. What I wonder is whether adequate effort was made to heal the breach before radical surgery was undertaken. It is true that moving Ribs allowed Pleks to blossom. Then again, had we kept all three we could conceivably have shifted Koivu to more of a checking role as he declined. My point is that this team desperately needed C for much of the time that Ribs carved out a nice career in Dallas. Prima facie, that suggests that trading him was a boner. A better return would have helped, no question! At the time, I observed that Gainey was making a high-risk high-reward move, gambling that Ninimaa would return to form (in which case it would have been a fair deal). He assumed ALL the risk in that trade. It didn't work out. Water under the bridge, but this 'he HAD to go' stuff sounds way too glib to me. Many Ribs haters seem to confuse his hotshot style with substance (the substance here being, he was/is a damned good playmaker). Not that I'm losing sleep over it at this point.

As a fellow Vancouverite, you must be aware that Bieksa is no saviour? Still, he would be a useful addition. I just believe that fans would turn on him eventually; inconsistency, thy name is Kevin.

I'm not quite as fatalistic as Wamsley tends to be about the impact an individual player can have, but I agree with the gist of his analysis above. The key is team identity. As he says, this is a Pat Burns/New Jersey Devils-style team concept, which always means a defensive orientation and scoring by committee. It would make more sense to reinforce this by adding a quality defenceman than deviate from it by adding a middling forward. I haven't followed Reghyr's development closely this season, so I'll defer to Habs29retired's scouting report. The point is that THAT's the type of player I'd like us to acquire. Easier said than done, natch. I wouldn't be too keen to panic based on this December. Slumps DO happen. Nevertheless, the absence of Markov is not a variable you can just assume away with coaching or system, and that's the area we'll need to address.

Good reply, BTH. It has to be taken on a case-by-case basis. E.g., -Trading Ribeiro was a huge mistake, granted; in fact, only last season did we finally reach a point where we had fully recovered from throwing away the 2nd-line C we desperately needed. Sh*t happens, unfortunately. -OB was outplayed by the younger Picard and had a track record with us of NOT siezing opportunities - what is so hard to understand about that? -All indications are that Latendresse basically gave up on Montreal after the Great Purge of 2008. Contrary to popular belief, JM gave him time on the top lines and he did nothing with it. When a player wants out, what can you do? And note that the jury is still out on whether he or Pouliot are better players; Fats showed up to camp in Minny out of shape and that contributed to his injuries this season. This is not exactly overpowering evidence that we traded away a quality player. -Sergei, not a team player. Period. He had hot streaks with us too. I'm not worried. It won't last. -One you didn't mention is Grabovski, whose game I liked. But when you look it at, who would you rather have - Grabovski/Plekanec or Gomez/Plekanec? At some point, you have to decide if there is room for an NHL-worthy youngtser on your team. If there isn't, you move them. When that player is an asshole Like Grabs, it makes the choice easy. Every indicator is that Rebuild 2.0 is doing MUCH better at developing young players than Rebuild 1.0 did. I believe that Gainey completely blew up the coaching staffs at both levels with the aim of achieving exactly this outcome. The REAL issue here is that some fans want the Habs did win every single trade they make and obssess over the ones they lose. Fair enough, but it's a distortion. The only real howler here is Ribeiro.

With Markov healthy, our D is among the best in the league. With him out, it's workmanlike: solid but beatable. There's a lot of confidence around here, from myself too, but I still think that injury was a very significant blow, and any yelping about the Habs' inadequacies needs to take it into consideration.

I respect BTH's opinion a lot, but as some may recall, this is my view as well. All other things being equal - and no further major injuries - I believe that between Pouliot, Patches, and maybe Eller, we can squeak by at forward; but that we will need to add a top-4 defenceman (preferably Regher) in order to have a really convincing shot of reaching the Finals. Part of it has to do with a general philosophy that a good defenceman is always worth more than a good forward (a longstanding conviction of mine). Part of it is that defence wins championships, especially for a team that is constructed like ours. And part of it is the gigantic hole that Markov's injury leaves us with. A Regher could really raise our defence to a dominant level. I like that.