The Chicoutimi Cucumber

Martin was publicly very clear that Pouliot is not being punished. This is an attempt to protect him from the pressures and heat that that line is rightly facing. He is not responsible for the line's problems nor is he responsible for fixing them: precisely the message a young player should be sent. I was interested to note Pouliot's comment that this had been clearly explained to him by the coaching staff and that he is entirely OK with it - quite a contrast to the non-communication that seemed to mark the Carbo years. Moen is a good choice as a temporary presence on that line, a guy I've long believed should be inserted in our smurfy top-6 on an occasional basis. A big part of the problem has been Gomez's perimeter play. Moen is a banger who will make that line harder to defend against. A good coaching move, although obviously not a longer-term fix. The lack of a power game in the top-6 remains a fundamental team weakness. Not too keen on the removal of OB or the downgrading of Subban, though. Here the message to young players seems to be punitive. Screw up and you're out. We're seeing the first test of JM's ability to bring along Subban without crushing the life from him. Habs-watchers should follow this sub-plot attentively - a lot rides on it. Damn, that classic Sabres crest/jersey is a thing of beauty. Why in God's name did they ever change it? Dumb dumb dumb.

1. There is no intrinsic reason why an old guy cannot be 'with the times' and up to speed on the essentials of the present. (Of course, a wise older person will also bring a critical eye to foolish trends and unhealthy developments, but being up to speed doesn't mean uncritically embracing the fads of the day). Yes, it is true that at some point people are likely to calcify and stop adapting - but there are people who continue to be fluid learners right up to the end. However, Red Fisher is not one of these. So while I'd disagree with Wamsley that age is necessarily an impediment to relevance, I'd also agree with him that Red no longer brings any analytical insight to the table. This is a guy who doesn't even seem to factor in the salary cap when evaluating managerial moves. 'nuff said. 2. The blogosphere just does offer better insight than the mainstream media when it comes to hockey, in that the best blogs far outclass the best media outlets - to a degree that seems simply undeniable. The superb analysis periodically offered on Eyes on the Prize, for instance, absolutely clobbers anything ever put forward by The Gazette; JT's ruminations offered on The H Does Not Stand For Habs frequently surpass those of the professional press; the smarmy and informed witticisms of Lions in Winter generally outperform the 'smart remarks' of the talking heads; the discussions on this board frequently yield insights that far outstrip that which you get from media 'hot stoves' and equivalents. You learn more from the blogospher. This is just a fact. 3. BTH makes an excellent point when he observes that bloggers have a lot more room (as well as time) in which to make their case. So point (2) be taken as a criticism of journalists, so much as of the constraints they work under. An operation like The Gazette should be adapting to the challenge by, say, hiring Chris Boyle to write a weekly detailed analysis of the type he does for EOTP, allocating a lot of space to that. Instead the Gazoo keeps on going with the same old same old: journalists/fans masquerading as 'analysts' and considered 'experts' because they can meet deadlines and get to jostle in scrums around the dressing room. Sad. 4. Times have changed, no question. But the Habs really do have a tremendous heritage and it is entirely justifiable to celebrate it. Wamsley is right that we're a decade away from being the Leafs, with 30 years of mediocrity behind us. But one of the biggest things the Leafs did wrong during the Ballard era was precisely to sever themselves from their own heritage, failing to honour their own rich past and depriving fans of the opportunity to consider themselves a part of that. The result was a franchise with no sense of its future OR its past. At least the Habs have avoided that mistake. Beyond that, we live in a society that offers people very few traditions with which they can identify. History is treated as an irrelevant, deathly bore, old people are shat on, popular music is a vacuous festival of disposable crap, and politics and institutions are viewed as utterly marginal compared to the mercurial world of celebrity, entertainment, and technological novelties. This is a profoundly unhealthy state of affairs that renders life empty and meaningless in the long run. Of course it's all a cash grab, but by offering fans a strong connection to the past, the Habs are doing their small bit to counteract these tendencies. Good on 'em, I say.

So, an honest debate here: is it that Martin's system sucks, or that we just don't have the horses? I incline to BTH's view that our top-6 is just a little too weak. Ultimately, though, there's no way to prove the case one way or the other, short of a talent upgrade up front. :hlogo:

I like the comment of a friend of mine: In Montreal that would've been called ' light socializing'

Not my most popular post! Just to clarify, I'm arguing neither that Price should not be coached nor that he has not been attentively coached since he was a kid. All I'm saying is, given the pervasive culture of over-coaching in pro sports today, I would not be a bit surprised if he got a little 'too much' technical help upon his arrival and that this might be one factor in his apparent shift from a super-composed style to a more erratic one. Anyway, enough out of me. Carry on!

Goons are essentially useless in today's NHL. Thanks to the worst rule still on the books - the instigator penalty - they can generally only fight each other. Plus there are all these other 'codes' about not pounding on guys smaller than you, etc.. It's a sideshow. In fact the instigator rule has corrupted the entire point of fighting. The purpose of hockey fights is to allow players to protect themselves where the refereeing fails. If someone cheap-shots your star player and there is no call, what can be done? A: you pound the snot out of the cheap-shot artist. But now there are major disincentives to this sort of self-policing by players. Players have to *agree* to a fight. It is no coincidence that we are now in an era of 'no respect' where players get routinely carved up like Thanksgiving turkeys. Not only that, but the hockey code has been distorted. Look at the Penguins, systematically targeting Subban for abuse (both legal and illegal) because he dared to try to lay a clean hip-check on Crosby. Crosby?! For God's sake, he is a robust and chippy semi-power forward built like a brick outhouse. He can take the punishment just as he dishes it out. The 'code' is meant to prevent bruisers from targeting mroe fragile players (e.g., Gretzky, Koivu). But nowadays a clean check on any notable player generates a fury of reprisals, usually expressed as cheap shots rather than outright fights. Where does this leave us? The best you can do is hope for, as bar says, is a tough cookie who can also take a regular shift. But there will be no adequate self-policing in the NHL until the league abolishes this inane instigator penalty. So we just have to hope our guys are tough enough to take the punishment and that guys like Subban, Moen, Pyatt and Lapierre can mete out enough of it to inflict a price on the other team.

Great thread! PMAC, I think you're overlooking one basic problem: the media sets the terms for fan discourse. We cannot let the Todds of the world off the hook on the grounds that they're not responsible for fan attitudes. Quite the contrary. Most fans simply regurgitate the subjects and ideas spewed at them by media 'experts.' The media frame public discussion, and not just in sports either. So if fans are irrational and hysterical you need to inquire into what made them that way. For instance, did the media offer an informed discussion of the Halak deal? Well, as BTH points out, Fisher wrote article after article attacking it without ever considering factors such as the cap. This does not contribute to informed discussion. It does the reverse. The wider national media did even less to examine the constraints that led to the decision. The media commentators are generally NOT experts in analysis despite their labels. Pat Hickey is just some guy who knows how to meet a deadline; he is not an 'analyst.' Todd, while an entertaining journalist, has no hockey credentials whatsoever. I like Boone, but the same applies to him. These guys are just fans who happen to be journalists. Fisher is a legend, but now only a part-timer, and he stopped being insightful about 20 years ago. The TSN guys, as BTH says, are spread out over 30 teams, which makes serious analysis impossible by definition. RDS at least offers some useful Habs analysis (Joel Bouchard, Danny Dube, these guys are competent). But they are also infected with yahoos like Michel Bergeron or loveable-but-not-terribly-insightful perosnalities like Brunet and Demers. Sad to say, but the place for real insight is the blogosphere. Consider Wamsley's brilliant dissection of Price's performance in Game One: http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/2010/10/...s-a-b-in-opener THIS is what a really serious hockey journalist covering the Habs should be providing. SERIOUS engagement with the controversies of the day. There is something deeply perverse in a situation where the people who get paid to do this are routinely outclassed by engaged amateurs. But there it is.

I don't pretend to be an expert on these technical aspects of the game (in fact, I found Brobin and BTH's discussion about the V-H move that led to Gomez's GWG last game fascinating because I hadn't considered it). It seems clear, though, that Price came to the NHL with a highly successful style that Melanson nevertheless decided to fiddle with. When he first came up, you *never* saw Price flail around; in fact, he hardly seemed to move at all, so sound was his positional game. But over the last two seasons he's had to make a lot more spectacular/reflex saves because he's not playing the same way. Indeed, I like the Price I've seen so far this season; he seems much calmer in the net. So maybe he's finding a nice balance. There's a wider issue here - the massive overcoaching of both teams and individuals in pro sports. The ultimate expression of this insanity, to me, was Tiger Woods's attempt a few years back to 'reconstruct' a swing that had allowed him to absolutely dominate the golf field. The result was a year's worth of mediocre performances, as he struggled to adjust to the new swing, followed by a stabilization that did not see him noticeably more dominant than he had been before. The whole exercise was a case of theory trumping common sense. As Bob Dylan says, when you got a lot of knives and forks, ya gotta cut something; when you have a whole phalax of coaches and 'experts' hovering over atheletes, you're going to have those atheletes treated as test subjects for the coach's pet theories, regardless of whether that makes any sense. If you read up on Habs' dynasty days, you find player after player saying that when they came up from the minors, they were told to 'play your game' and see what happens. Now all players are viewed as raw materials for coaching interventions. Back in 01-02 Carbo had served as assistant coach in charge of the PK and the Habs had one of the best PKs in the league. Then Carbo left, so Guy Charron was hired as his replacement. The first thing Charron did was implement a brand new PK system. The result was a plummeting in effectiveness. He couldn't just leave well enough alone, right? And that exemplifies the whole problem. Coaches don't want to just oversee a successful existing arrangement. They want to create that arrangement according to their theories about what a player or team 'should' look like. What should have happened with Price is that he should have been left alone until his existing style was proven to be a problem. I'm no insider but frankly I doubt that that is what happened. Much more likely is that Melanson assessed Price according to some Theory of Perfect Goaltending and told him, kid, you need to do this and this and this.' And who knows, if it hadn't happened, Price may have had a smoother ride.

Yeah, it's a real compliment when a Cup champion team like Pittsburgh hates your guts and views you as a principal rival. Tons of fun, too. I remember the 1980s where it seemed like every second game was an intense battle against some team - Whalers, Nordiques, Bruins, Flyers, Calgary - that had it in for us due to playoff bruisings. It can also make your team a lot better by battle-testing it over the course of the season, which I believe is what happened during that era. It's been too long since the Habs were viewed by the Washingtons and Pittbsurghs of the world as equals (whatever the experts say). Even though we are nowhere near their equals on paper, in terms of psychology and on-ice battles we might just be at that point.

Really a good post. You accurately capture something that I've maintained about this ream all along, that it is fundamentally likeable and chock-full of appealing, fun players that sensible fans pull for. Bruised by the psychodrama disasters of the Kovalev era, Gainey rebuilt this team for gumption and CHARACTER. Only hysteria over wins and losses can lead people to lose sight of this. PK Subban just raises that 'likeability' factor up a notch. His game, potential and charisma are the stuff of future legend, and barring injury or cap mismanagement, or perhaps his own mushrooming ego, he will be THE defining player for the Montreal Canadiens for the next 15 years. I know that sounds like hyperbole...but I don't think it is. Easily the best Habs rookie since Koivu - the real Koivu, not the injury-damaged one. At the same time, you're also right that our core maybe isn't quite good enough to blast open games. There are X-factors here - what if Subban really starts to explode? What if Eller, Kosty or Pouliot really begin to buzz? - but these are more cases of wishful thinking than probabilities. (If Cammalleri had ever heard of assists, he might become that gamebreaker, but it looks like he is a pure lurk-in-the-weeds-and-explode sniper, and it's hard to demand more). We still need a legitimate power forward in the top 6. Absent that, expect lots of harrowingly close games, lots of near-death experiences along the lines of 'shit, what ifwe head back to Montreal with an 0-2 record??' and things like that. Also expect enough moments where Pleks, Gio, Gomez, and Cammy and our vastly improved bottom-6 snatch victory from the jaws of defeat. Gonna be another roller-coaster...as it is for most teams in the cap era. But whatever happens, it'll be a fun ride from one of the most entertaining and likeable teams in hockey.

I'm surprised Gionta isn't showing more, given the "C" on the jersey and all. Then again, he's a complementary player more than a guy who makes things happen single-handedly. That's Gomez's job. So I think you're probably right. He'd better turn it around double-quick; hopefully tonight's Thanksgiving Turkey (MAF) gets him going.

Yeah, what's with Gio and Gomez? Is Pouliot dragging them down, or something? They're garbage out there.

They keep losing to us for one simple reason. Their goaltending sucks. And ours is first-rate. :hlogo: Price looked strong in TO and was the difference tonight. Fess up, Price-bashers. Gionta and Gomez HAVE to start picking it up. Good that Gomer got the GWG but he was invisible all night and that was *not* a serious NHL scoring chance. We can't expect to win without two of our top-4 defencemen and with two of our most counted-upon forwards MIA night after night. PK Subban - when was the last time a Habs rookie got booed, not for any specific play he makes, but simply because he is who he is? Star power for sure. I'm just worried that if he keeps taking that amount of punishment an injury is inevitable. Major relief to head home at .500. Thank you Carey Price!

To this day I don't understand why they don't trade Jordan Staal for an upgrade on the wings. Seems simple enough - deal from your position of strength (C ) - to address your weakness. They remain a strong club, but the 'Halak-stole-the-show' narrative covers up the reality of a beatable team.

Be sure to check out Topham's amusing preview here. http://www.lionsinwinter.ca/2010/10/meetin...oo-preview.html I especially like the ready-made excuses in the event of a loss

Letang publicly stated that the Pens now hate the Habs as much as they hate the Flyers and the Caps. In a way, I loved that comment - talk about respect. On the other hand, I shuddered at the thought of a ferociously mobilized Crosby-Malkin coming at us. A good test for us, then. If we can respond and meet the Pens as equals, especially without Halak, we'll be making a statement that we really are a good team. If we end up getting rolled, then it will tend to confirm Crosby's bitter post-series remarks about the Habs getting massively outchanced and outplayed and not deserving to win - even though they have yet to face us with Markov. Cammy will be pumped. Gio and Gomer will be looking to play for 60 minutes instead of 20 like last game. Kosty will be needing to make a statement. Subban will be his usual wild self. Eller can make the league start to sit up and take notice if he does something. This could be a debacle but it also could be great. :hlogo: Go Habs go!

The difference between those guys and Darche is that they have talent and he doesn't. If he is not an honest player then he is no player at all. if I'm the Habs I give him no more than two more games like that before I subtract him from the lineup and give him 'The Talk.'

The Chara tilt was one thing, but last night's Ivanas fight was really quite sad to witness. You hardly ever see an 'enforcer' get crushed like that. Not only has he been publicly humiliated, he is also seriously hurt - concussions are no joke. His humiliation, instead of making the desired statement, merely sealed the demolition of his team in a season-opening rival matchup. And it exposed him in front of tens of thousands of people as basically useless at what is supposed to be his job, likely sealing any hope he has of an NHL career (and reinforcing the possibility that fights between goons, while relatively harmless most of the time, can bring dire human consequences, including death, if one of the participants is not up to scratch). Just an agonizing thing on a human level. Awful.

Yup, good game. The only real stinker out there was Darche, who I would not be surprised to see back riding the iron lung before too long. In the category of good news: -Price. Quietly confident, poised, strong. A very, very reassuring performance if you ask me. -Spacek. Looked pretty good to me, notwithstanding the gaffe on the winning goal. Finally back at his natural side, he was much more assertive on the PP especially. Could turn out to be a bit of a secret weapon for us this season. -Eller. Rangy, creative, good vision and strong on his feet. He looks like a bona fide top-6 prospect at this point. Don't wanna jinx him though. -Subban. Yes, a few dodgy moments but damn, he is strong as a bull and makes things happen. And he can just tirelessly eat up minutes. He will help us much more than he will hurt us. No fear of a jinx here. This guy will be an absolute stud defenceman in the NHL. -Good PK, solid chances on the PP. -The depth. In stark contrast to early last season, Lapierre, Boyd, Pyatt, Halpern, etc., all looked ready to contribute in every facet of play. We have hugely improved from where we started 2009 in terms of the bottom 6. Those who say we've stood pat except for losing Halak simply haven't done their homework. -Coaching: ample use of the young guys even as the clock wound down. Kudos. Not so good news: -Gomez and Gionta were invisible until the third period. I'll bet there was a coaching adjustment, but in a tight game we need more from them for 60 minutes especially with our missing components. I didn't think much of Plekanec's game either. -Kostitsyn and Pouliot. The former did nothing, the latter was a liability at times. This does not auger well. -Darche. One more ass-dragging game like that and Ryan White should have himself a job. -Breakdowns. I thought we settled down after the 1st but defensive brain-cramps cost us this game. As Wamsley points out, though, the return of our top 2 defencemen will hugely help. Lots to like. Here's to a new season! :hlogo:

Can't help with the bar request, but I also lived in Ottawa for a couple of years after having spent much of my childhood and youth in Montreal. I just want to say, don't listen to the naysayers - it's really a lovely town with a lot of green space, an unusual per centage of interesting people, and outstanding cultural opportunities for a city of its size (including the best art gallery in Canada and, of course, the gorgeous parliament buildings). I live in the Vancouver area now and I'd go back there in a flash. (Then again, if you're an 18-year-old on the party, then it's true that it's Hull or bust. And while you're getting loaded on La Maudite, be sure to dig the statue of the Rocket outside the Museum of Civilization).

100%. And I do ignore them, as a rule (much as I ignore nearly anything said on RDS relating to French-Canadian hockey players). What does surprise me is the complete absence of a learning curve. 5 out of 6 playoff seasons, a 60% success rate in escaping the first round, you'd *think* that eventually they'd start to acknowledge that the Habs keep proving them wrong. Ah well. This maybe isn't the right thread in which to raise this, but what worries me about this season is the power play. As much as people hate MAB, we forget that his presence was necessitated by a PP power outage due to the absence of a bullet from the point. Now he is out of the picture and the danger is that the Habs - already a dismal 5-on-5 team - will suffer from a gravely weakened powerplay in consequence. This isn't a theme I've seen addressed much and it strikes me as ominous. If we have an Achillies' Heel it could prove to be that.

Hee hee...it's the same garbage year after year. If Cammy, Gio, Gomez, Markov, Price and Subban were Leafs, we'd be hearing all about the 'plucky Leafs' with their 'talented core' and our excellent 'mix of skilled veterans and exciting young stars.' We'd also be hearing story after story about the 'miracle run' of 2010 and see highlights of the Pittsburgh and Washington series rebroadcast ad nauseum and celebrated over and over as some sort of historic achievement or 'return to past glory.' But no; instead it's all 'smurfs smurfs smurfs, Price sucks sucks sucks, fluke fluke fluke, now let's move on and talk about what a Great Leader and Human Being Dion Phaneuf is.' Now I don't expect anyone to rate us as contenders. But to see a Stanley Cup semi-finalist with the playoff goal-scoring leader, one of the best young defenceman - and yes, I said it, best young goalies - in all of hockey, one of the best defencemen in hockey period (Markov), and a dressing room littered with Cup rings, being universally dismissed as a hopeless mediocrity *is* a bit rich. We've made the playoffs 5 out of the last 6 years and gone past the first round 3 times in that span. At some point they should wake up and smell the coffee: this may not be 1977, but when it comes to making the dance and doing at least some damage, don't bet against the Montreal Canadiens. All that being said? I predict a loss tonight. Too many missing pieces, with the Laffs and their crowd too likely to be hysterically hopped-up. I'll be happy if we work hard and show some cohesion and most importantly, don't suffer a catastrophic injury either through an unpenalized cheap shot or else sheer bad luck. And a further prediction: expect Habs fans to be rending their garments and calling for heads to roll after that one loss, forgetting that a team without Markov, Hamrlik, Price, and Cammy is simply NOT representative of what the Habs can do. After a while, you realize that some things are just inevitable.

Hee hee...imagine becoming a separatist because you hate the Leafs There's a scenario I never even considered.

Yes, I'm generally resigned to some sort of BS going down when we play the Leafs, especially for a 'big game.' It's either a huge injury (c.f. Markov) or some idiotic call or non-call...a circus is guaranteed, usually in the Leafs' favour.

Yeh, don't be surprised if the Habs start the season on a losing streak because 1/2 the team is working at 50% lung capacity due to the flu. That's what happened in 1995, and it cost Jacques Demers and Serge Savard their jobs.