HabsWEST

No Dunn or Parayko will NOT be moved. But a starting point. And depends what Blues would be willing to give up.. One of their C prospects, D prospects ( not on their roster) plus a future 1st round ..( as point to negotiate once they say no to a Parayko) Kyrou has initially been a C, but Sarnia last year and most of this year has played as a RW given is strong skating and drive to net and they have enough Centers and lack RW.. In any event.. MB. ... I wouldn't be confident in his ability go be a " mini " version of Sam Pollock....more than likely he pulls his usual short term side way deals.. And keeps going for 4th liners.. Why I alluded to getting a President of Hockey operations ( Bobby Smith as one example ) and let him have full reign on what to do with MB. But back on topic Max Pacioretty.. Market should be significant for contending teams like the Blues and be in position for Montreal to fill lot of their deficiencies. But I do not see MB have that ability to do so unfortunately.

MB is stubborn and arrogant to his detriment. We have seen it with examples from PK trade to Radulov to Markov .. The extra cap space has nothing to do with Tavares ( he isn't signing with the Habs...period ) Pacioretty is one option to trade to try to fill needs of this team: 1. Prospect depth ( been a very long time since I have seen these few prospects to be excited about.. That is that one can see a future for this club ) ,2. Defense and Center position . Best market for Max and full market for current position of team is to : Get quality prospects ( risk factor as never guaranteed how they turn out ) PLUS fill the organization need for C and D. As the game was just played vs St Louis, I couldn't help but look at the Blues as prime trade candidate for Montreal... They have depth prospects with ' potential " at Center Position. : 1. Jordan Kyrou Strong skater, with decent size and all round game. ( #2 C potential) 2. Robert Thomas ..skilled but needs to work on his DEF and all round game..like many young skilled players his age. 3. Klim Kostin: highly skilled. Off the charts as close can get ..High risk / reward....MB wouldn't touch him. But represents a gamble to yield a potential number 1 C 4. Tage Thompson: disappointing season but good all round prospect with size. The Blues have 4 solid C prospects the Habs can look at PLUS a DEF: Ideally: and given that Pacioretty has been one of top scorers Last 5 years... 1. Vince Dunn. Young all round , good skater for the new NHL Or size : ( I can't see St Louis trade him buy worth a shot : ) 2. Colton Parayko Or one of their other D prospects.. A Pacioretty trade for as an example with Blues for a Jordan Kyrou, Vince Dunn or a D prospect and a 2019 or 2020 first should be considered ( blues don't have their 2018 first due to Schenn deal ) and blues get their LW for Schenn. An example to follow..instead of a trade for older players that this team still would havd holes to fill. Fill your cupboard.. Fill the gaps of team. On another topic I will post separately. Molson needs to hire a President of Hockey operations ( he continues his function as governor/ board / league Montreal President..). But get someone like Bobby Smith in that role of President hockey operations and let him review MB.. And perhaps interview others like Vince Damphousse for the GM role once and if he decided to fire MB. BUT Molson needs to delegate that to new President in today's NHL

And why I always maintained ..leadership starts from top down and starts by respecting the tradition of players that come by once in a decade or longer..and honour their loyalty and commitment. MB shows his true colours.. He was quoted on Radulov " ...loyalty you only get from your dog...and no loyalty shown.." Well he turns around and roles reversed on Markov. http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/report-andrei-markov-felt-disrespected-canadiens-bergevin/ Perhaps this is in back on current minds of the team or potential future members. But from top down.. 1. Molson should step down as President and appoint a hockey / or career sports executive ( Toronto, Chicago, and so forth .) Not many owners are also Presidents of their team. 2. Bergevin has lost all respect and integrity on this. And the tipping point of the fortunes of this team.. He will trade #27 for depth players I am sure and his so called more " Character " He should lead by example and he himself should show " Character " in this case how he treated or perceived to treat Markov, a Career habs.

http://www.tsn.ca/habs-sign-d-streit-to-one-year-deal-1.813160 Enough said.. UNBELIEVABLE Markov should just go out and say back to BERGEVIN " if you want loyalty go and got a dog " wow What is happening to this organization. You take care of your own backyard and leadership is from top down. For the first time in my life ..I am saying I have more confidence in the Maple leafs leadership group than the HABS clowns.. Wow I didn't think I could ever say that. Just mind blowing how far down this team has come. A simple class act of reciprocation to sign Markov.. Wow

I have lot to say on this, and you hit them all to topic! Thank you. Here is one that has been on my mind and I had read long ago, I finally found the article. In reference to 1 of 5 drafts , now 6 drafts, only 1 centre taken...in the top 2 rounds... Bergevin is 2 months in GM role, but if he had his way and not let his scouts decide, he would NOT have picked that centre .. "....Canadiens GM Marc Bergevin hinted to an audience at the PrimeTime Sports Management Conference , that if it would have been up to him, he would have drafted Rielly third overall that year. Or, if Ryan Murray had been available (he went second to Columbus), it would have been him...." Here is the full article...: https://www.thestar.com/sports/breakaway_blog/2014/11/habs_considered_taking_morgan_rielly_at_third_overall_in_2012.html Perhaps that is issue he is regretting it since and taking it out on Alex Galchenyuk.. It all starts from top download his reactionary decisions are far from proactive! More later... but this has always bugged me and finally found the quote. Take it for what it is worth!

....continued.. As you continue reading the article..few things start showing up, nor by coincidence , that was one of shortcomings of HABS. don't get me wrong, Weber is an excellent player.. But for this team at this moment and going forward, we all know the trade doesn't work for the Habs, they way at least the team is structured... "......The interesting thing to note is that Subban doesn’t seem reliant on playing with any one individual forward. If you follow the red bars – the numbers that indicate Subban’s performance away from a given forward – you’ll notice that they are incredibly close to around 55 per cent of the shot share, which is dominant...." By TSN Yost

On other NHL news: http://www.tsn.ca/talent/p-k-has-helped-push-the-preds-to-new-heights-1.742579 Hmmmm..debated whether to put this post on here or " Fire Bergevin thread" ".....Subban takes the skating and distribution game to another level. This postseason, just about every regular forward he plays with is seeing significant upticks in his performance metrics. This has been a consistent theme throughout Subban’s career (and is generally true for most high-end first-pairing guys) – regular teammates, be it forwards or defenders, benefit from playing with this type of talent...." As evidence is now coming forward. HABS get slower on Defence as they trade PK..and Nashville gets faster. MB is " old school" ..new world of NHL hockey..size doesn't matter is the player with size is slow and not skilled .. But Size does matter if there is skill, speed and size ( GETZLAFF) Now if Nashville wins the CUP.. And PK is the conn smythe winner.. This post gets moved to " Fire Bergevin thread " Point here is not the trade, but how successful teams are built.. 1. Young and fast 2. Full forward transition The winning team this year will have that. Unfortunately, we are to far away from that reality. Where other teams promote their young players..we keep them in the AHL .. OR worse yet Trade them..( fear the worst that MB will trade Galchenyuk ..for another 30 something past his prime player..) MB is failing that he reacts.. Instead of being proactive. Weber would be an excellent trade ..if that was the missing piece to take team over top. I said that at the trade time. But on this team, NOPE..as there are too many other missing pieces. Instead he brings OTT and company..ols players from another generation and brand of Hockey. the final 4 this year..will have YOUTH, SPEED, TRANSITION..with GOOD goaltending. Great goaltending with lack of the other elements will not cut it anymore. Habs are a long way from Final 4. Competitive and top third of league yes. Win a round or 2 yes. Top 8 yes. Top 4 ..no

Also read that MB wasn't willing to spend more on him and regardless Shipachyov as per reports has no interest in coming to Montreal. Curious how the sentiment changed from a year ago.!

Finally in last 2 minutes #27 is there with Pacs and Radulov..and on the tying goal. Can Julien finally stop the BS. There is still OT. And must win . But certain players have to go off this lineup for game 3. Let's get this windward salvage something..

20 minutes left in the season for this team.. Before the playoffs for the first time since hockey pools started to my I didn't choose any habs. Absolutely guts me out since being a lifelong fan. The other team I didn't choose any players was St Louis. Reasons: 1. Montreal and St Louis are the only 2 teams in playoffs that don't have one single C over 50 points. 2. Danault..as your first line centre simply won't make you a contender ( awesome 3 Rd line C with a contender) 3. Shaw at C ? 4. The only player that is a C and avg per points total to get over 50 pts plus.. Is on 4 th line winger 5. Bergeron goes and year after year guts slow , 4th liners well documented everywhere. He over pays in contract and in trade ( Shaw...etc...) 6. I stated on Weber. Great on winning teams with great players. On a contending team that would take team over top to win it all. It's not in MTL 7. Not playing young players with skill or limiting them or buried in the AHL. Look around the league and the young players all around ( granted they are high picks with teams that have been basement dwellers for years .) But they found a sound team to bring pieces together.. KEY " BEST" regardless of their ethnicities.. ( no need to state which teams. Here..obvious ) 8. World has changed.. One has to go with philosophy of going with best possible team in management and coaching. So what happens Julien gets fired and Vigneault gets rehired .. Its a vicious circle recycle all because of have to being French speaking. So MB gets fired.. Who they go get : Carbonneau..get my point? 9. This team is reactive. Pacs, et al.. Look lost and confused. After the second goal. Cameras zoomed in on Price. His eyes said it all. I see it that he lost something.. Like he knows this team isn't good enough Now what: Trade more draft picks for Shaw type players and Lose opportunity to get the top OHL scorer that habs could have drafted? Shaw worked in Chicago because they had Kane and Toews and all. Weber works in National team for same reason. They take a team over the top that already have the high end talent. This team doesn't. You are only as strong as your middle.. DANAULT PLEKANEC SHAW OTT Doesn't cut it. Not even close. This team is on a downward spiral in few years they will be the basement dwellers. Ditch the got to have French speaking requisite to coach / manage team. It they do and are the best qualified. Great if not. Pick the best And rebuild and start to regroup. Or else this team will be ” pretend contenders ) finishing in the 5 to 12 spot. Perhaps win a round and make playoffs most of the time. If in today's hockey works. It's a business..fine.. But you need strong scouts..management and build . Take a look at the trades in past this team has made..many used to be high draft picks or some sort of pedigree. But have underachieved. I can list the names during off season on this topic. Well let's hope for the so called comebacks from the regular season where they led the league in comebacks. Perhaps they can tie it up. Hoping the do. But the issues are there.. Let's pull for the win..20 minutes to go

Well after last night game. No wins in regulation time in February. And going back 41 games to end of November.. A quick glance shows about 11 regulations games in half a season equivalent. Despite all the injuries in that time period, and compact schedule is not a sign of a top end contender. http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/teams/montreal-canadiens/scores/ Any trade in the next few days will be a short term solution that may solidify a playoff spot, and perhaps an added series win. But I can't see more than that. So if it adds dollars to overall profitability of the club. Sure. But at expense of future futility in few years in the 2020's An overall Long term strategy is best option always. Now, if we were one player away from being a TOP 4 contender ( serious semifinal team ) YES..all in. But this team is far from that unfortunately despite having a few solid key pieces to contend. You are only as strong as your weakest link. And there is a few .

Radulov played a little at Centre in Junior and also KHL but otherwise always a winger. Found a slower motion video of injury posted on Twitter: In slow motion.. Right knee..LCL ..does buckle ..NOT going to speculate now. Hoping for the best..fingers crossed..but hmmmm..wish it's short term. I do have lots of knee injury experience.. And I know what I am seeing here unfortunately.. At best it's a Strain/ Sprain..or little worse LCL and buckles to MCL second degree with some cartilage tear..still 2 to 3 months in average cases. But on this video it's not via observation an ACL at all..just by experience in these knee injuries for 25 plus years. His leg wasn't planted and didn't totally buckle backwards..which would be an ACL if that was the case. ITS NOT THE CASE HERE..so that's the good news I am guessing. Typically there isn't much pain. When I tore my ACL ..no pain..did have some pain with cartilage tear and MCL another time.. And I personally see athletes with discomfort but not severe pain like a sprain or break. Well..its part of the game and today's advancements in medical surgery and recoveries regardless of severity he should be well recovered? Just needs time to heal and get back..in any event. Video is hard to judge and angles can be deceptive. I am giving speculation and an educated guess ONLY FYI

I edited and added the video. trying to be optimistic. i have had lots of experience with sport knee injuries and my own torn ACL surgery. the only positive from the replay is that there was no resistance. he quickly moved it up. if it had stayed planted or buckled thats an early sign of an ACL torn. but its not right angle and an educated guess on my part. very least he is out into New Year correct... and now the team has the worst middle in the league..... hmmm radulov moves there?

His Junior ACL surgery was his LEFT knee. From the replay it appears this was his RIGHT knee though..but hard to tell from the angle of the video.. In any event.. There is probably swelling and needs to be Re examined when back in Montreal. He is out indefinitely at this stage. I suspect it's not an ACL but possibly a strain or some cartilage.. But he will probably be out for rest of December. But that is just an educated guess. Obviously can be less or worst case lots more in case of ACL Here is a link showing the injury: http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/alex-galchenyuk-leaves-game-injury-will-not-return/ at the start and again at the 30 second mark. the commentator mentions a left leg injury but collision was right leg/knee The fact it gave way without resistance tells me early that not necessarily an ACL tear. but sure looks like a strain/sprain and cartilage issue. all this plus the team being very quite and stating out imdefinelty plus more evalaution by team doctor is not a good sign... i am guessing its not an ACL..but still serious enough to be out until New Year

I am saying that unless MT and coaching staff change their strategy in the transition game and how quickly to move out of their own end, this team won't make the playoffs. They relied soo heavily on the 25 minutes PK gave them..Sure he would make mistakes..but given the frequency of times he moved the puck and transitioned from D to FWD..this helped greatly in their possession game. something WEBER seriously lacks..and he was left severely exposed during the SJ series.. And perhaps is the early signs of things to come as the game is changing and as it bares the results with Penguins winning the Cup. Well lets see how he does during WC with an all star cast surrounding him. Last 3 years Habs assist Leaders I believe ( I haven't totalled the numbers..but I am sure: Subban has been number 1 Markov 2 Plekanec 3 The whole premise has been the quick transition and counter and neutral zone play that MT utilizes. Now his most valuable peace of the puzzle will be missing That's 25 to 27 minutes a game that Weber slides into..where this is not his asset and skillset. Weber is a shut down.front of net clearance guy.. Now the team has to rely on Beaulieu and Barberio..? Unproven and inconsistent I am not confident that MT can change his strategy.. If he indeed has one With PK and additions of Radulov ..this team I would be more confident in.. But I can't see it with the loss of PK and much lesser extent of ELLER..which in my opinion was underrated and taken for granted.. And excellent 3rd line C ..who did well in transition and neutral zone play.. Shaw got overpaid and team paid too much in giving up 2 2nd picks. For a contender he may be the missing piece to..but not on this team.. Petry healthy helps a little But overall still think this team regressed. I SURE HOPE I AM WRONG! Perhaps MT will surprise us with a whole new approach based on his new additions but I am not holding my breath.. Losing 25 minutes of a higher paced D for a slower plundering D..with a boom of a shot.. On THIS TEAM .imho..doesnt work with this coaching staff that has a hard time adjusting their game plan.. Maybe Muller will surprise us..I hope so..normally I am very optimistic.. But so far not in this situation. Too bad MB didn't realize..the " Best trades are does you DONT MAKE" Best..here is hoping this team surprises us all!

Without getting emotional and who is better or worse. It's obvious Montreal lost this trade. Now what is done is done. Question how is coaching staff going to address: 1. Transition game or lack of one? 2. A slower and older defense More time will be on the Habs end of ice.. Price stats will regressive can't do it all.. The offence will decrease..as the puck won't move up to them as quick. So what is MT and staff and MB going to change strategy to compensate this visible regression in their game.? Right now this isn't a playoff team again... Unless a change of strategy is implemented.. I can't see this team making playoffs..even with Price healthy

CC THANK YOU!!!!!!

Dude Don.. I was referring simply to the Franchise D segment on TSN.. I can get you many lists also of teams showing overlooked players in past..would you have traded Crosby when he was omitted for one of the team Canada additions? Come on DON..wow..I have been on this forum since 2007..you are a relative newbie and will simply take this with a grain of salt. Point is clear we are both Habs fans..regardless.. We don't agree on the trade which is fine. You have the right to your opinion as I do mine..but please stay with topic from what I stated. Even at that it's subjective. I have a hard time wondering how the teams overall strategy will change now, Do MT and MB have the knowhow to do it? some see them being very reactive instead of proactive. It really does tick me off that the very organization that MB refers to as a guide goes out and takes him to the cleaners on the SHAW trade.. They add 2 high picks relatively.. We give up 2.. Plus we overpay the player..wow Goes out and loses 4 years of age on a D ..all thing's equal..where the Hawks are going the other way. I am talking big picture here... SIMPLE..this trade will come back to haunt the team..many times over..simple

And where is WEBER MENTIONED..in the top 8 left and right D? Hmmmmm http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/franchise-faceoff-who-s-your-no-1-right-defenceman~923533

http://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/1064619-ranking-the-31-nhl-general-managers " Marc Bergevin has signed numerous deals that carry incredible value for the Canadiens, but his allegiances and mismanagement of P.K. Subban stands to define his tenure." Marc is an " in the box " thinker still living in the NHL of 20 years ago when he played.. Plus he is just trying to copy the Blackhawks organization.. BUT THIS ISNT THE HAWKS! This team won't go anywhere under his leadership

One key factor that will tilt worse the trade for this one season: Simply --- Subban isn't playing in the WC and come end of season and playoffs PK and Nashville will have more legs than : --- WEBER the WC games he is playing and let's see how far he has dropped from his peak..in last part of season ..IF the Habs are in the playoff race.. And let's hope Weber doesnt get injured during WC.. Than we are looking at no playoffs this coming season.. why the heck did MB do this trade.. One for one..position for position.. There is absolutely no upside..and more downside as per above.. MB will get fired I hope..along with his side shows MT... Unbelievable in everyway.. All the best in Nashville PK! Prove these clowns wrong!!!

I have waited to see what MB would do to finalize all his moves before commenting. I go back as a little guy when I was upset over the Rod Langway trade.. Although few season later Rick Green and Ryan Walter helped in the 86 win.. Boy we have a knack of trading defence! This trade at first like many of you I was outraged once again.. Post Sam Pollack era we seem to trade on impulse and reactive moves. What is apparent is the following: Consensus across the league is that Weber would be chosen over Subban. It's shows on Team Canada and general feeling by the decision makers. Subban either is the 7th def or not on roster for Team Canada.. But Weber logs heavy minutes. MB I believe was strongly influenced by this perception and his involvement with team Canada I am sure he heard all the plus and negatives of both and probably unanimous that Weber came out ahead. Well Montreal is not team Canada.. For a one game shot in last 2 minutes of a Stanley cup..AT THIS VERY MOMENT ..YOU WOULD TAKE WEBER OVER SUBBAN.. simple But it's not that simple..habs are NOT a contending team at this point in time! We are not talking about Team Canada. All the scenarios that chose Weber over Subban factors a strong surrounding cast of all stars or simply a contending team with solid top 6 players and depth. We don't have that! Case in point is the Andrew Shaw deal . . same.. He is talked about as a key player..SURE WITH THE BLACKHAWKS! Not Montreal.. We don't have players of top 6 like Toews and Kane! MB is shortsighted in analyzing his team in those categories of a top contender.. He doesn't see we are not.. He didn't make any significant addition ( radulov???) By trading Subban was wrong move for this team at this point in time.. In 3 years where the team could HAVE BEEN a contender ..with Subban..without him and a decline of Weber..and his huge contract will be inmidst of another rebuild.. And don't be surprised if Carey Price moves on! A trade for Subban required additions of same age or younger ( talk Hedman and something ..pick any mid 20' s or younger defense and add another piece). ..again we fail in asset management. I wasn't adverse to trading Subban..but for this team at this point in time..this wasn't the trade to make! Very disappointing as I know where this is leading

Sergachev is who I had hopes for Montreal picking, great skater, great shot...Def addition top 2 potential..Even though team needs FWD help Hope for the hockey gods for Habs to win Lottery! Dubois has moved up, or else thats who Habs would pick...yes risky pick..but most are! JOST, looks like a good fit! and Keller is small but huge skill set ( Dubois to Pouliot comparison is fair

HEHEHEHE, I will take 10 first round picks to take Hall off them... But serious, get HALL out of Oilers, and the Oilers instantly become better, any decent additions to them and they are on their way.. It just baffles me local media, doesnt mention this at all, so dont be surprised if its HALL who is gone.. back to topic, WHO DOES MONTREAL DRAFT: Hope they take best player available at that point, and not some conditions like : biggest player or someone who is Quebec born Just pick the best player available period

As I stated on here before, I wouldnt go anywhere near HALL, for reasons already mentioned in past. In Edmonton he has a horrible reputation in the city. Always very surprised this hasnt come out. plus fact, at his house, parties are happening all the time all night. His neighbor has a system to warn him with his flood light, before his wife calls the police on him. I live nearby and this is constant problem , and we all talk about it! Walks out on tips, and some cases bills ..that others end up covering for him!, disrespectful to those serving him, and caring more about partying than anything. Sure guys are young, and in limelight. BUT never an excuse to be rude, disrespectful and treat others like crap.. Enough said, I dont ever want to see him anywhere near a Habs Jersey!