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Machine of Loving Grace

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Everything posted by Machine of Loving Grace

  1. Max Pacioretty traded to Vegas

    Yup, he netted a third round pick in 2021, a second round pick in 2019 (which will likely be in the 55-62 range since Vegas will still be very good) and a first round pick in 2018, which was a 30th overall pick. He also had term with three more seasons, which is why he was valued by Vegas. He didn't work out in Gallant's high forecheck and backcheck system since he's more of a pure offence guy. If you want an argument there, yeah, we should have traded Pacioretty when he still had three years left on his contract and his value would have been sky high. This trade got a second round pick from Columbus in 2019 (which I've addressed will likely be between 31-38 since the Blue Jackets are about to implode from Bobrovsky and Panarin looking like they are planning to leave), Tomas Tatar (who could have a bounce back season and be worth more picks in the future), and a 13th overall pick in 2017. We were *never* getting a pick that low from a trade deadline move. I had said before I saw no way, no how we were getting Vilardi from LA for Pacioretty and we got a guy drafted just two spots after. Who also has centre potential (but in talking to some OHL fans he sometimes takes faceoffs then plays the wing, the reverse of what Galchenyuk did in Sarnia, so the Habs might see him as a right handed LW more than a centre) but more importantly has top line offensive potential. Could we have got more at the deadline? It's possible. But the reason we got Suzuki is because Pacioretty intended on signing an extension. At the deadline he's just a rental. And we got a much better return than what Rick Nash got as a rental. Or McDonaugh. Or Stastny. Or Shattenkirk. Or Hanzal. Or Staal. Or Ladd. Suzuki, a 2017 13th overall pick, is worth more than any of the first rounders or prospects those teams got. And while Tatar struggled heavy in Vegas after being traded there, he still has five straight 20 goal seasons and a 19 goal season before that. So we downgraded from a consistent 30 goal scorer to a 20 goal scorer while also getting a 19 year old who has put up back to back 40 goal campaigns and had 100 points last OHL season and the Chicago Wolves trusted enough to play in their elimination game. I think Molson (who is calling the shots now and nothing Bergevin does is without his review and say) and Marc Bergevin got probably the best return they could with Max Pacioretty, and deserve credit for that. Had Pacioretty not been traded now, he would have been a pure rental. And at a pure rental, you're not getting a low 2nd round pick, a 27 year old multiple 20 goal scorer with value to trade in the future, and a 19 year old 13th overall pick. It doesn't happen.
  2. Max Pacioretty traded to Vegas

    That's great and all. I just watched more clips and game footage of him and I don't see Top 10 prospect. I'm not going to judge him on a dumb rookie tournament but the more people see him, the less praise he gets. He definitely feels like a second half bloomer who benefited from his position in a draft weak at centre.
  3. Max Pacioretty traded to Vegas

    I do not see this at all. Top 10 what? Under 25? 23? 21? 19? Talk on Kotkaniemi is starting to remind me of Andrei Kostitsyn. I don't see what he has proven to be considered elite at this point. Strong second half of the year is turning into more and more hot air.
  4. Max Pacioretty traded to Vegas

    If he was dealt at the deadline, the first round pick we would get would be outside of the Top 15. The prospect would probably be a B prospect. We got a 19 year old, one year removed from his draft, 13th overall, right handed with experience at centre, who has a great pass and a great shot. He's better than what we could have drafted. The B prospect is now a 2nd round pick from Columbus, who might trade Bobrovsky and Panarin and crash and burn this year, which gets that pick close to the 32-40 range where you get falling first round calibre players. Tatar sucks but if he ends up not sucking, we might have a guy we can move for a 2nd round pick, maybe more. He was just moved for a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd recently. His playoffs sucked but do we care about the playoffs right now? If he pots 25 we got an asset that can be moved for more picks. Suzuki is better than any player I thought we would get out of Pacioretty. He's better than what the Rangers got for McDonaugh and Miller. Better than what they got for Nash. Better than what Ottawa got for Hoffman, better than the best prospect in the Duchene deal, I can keep going.
  5. Max Pacioretty traded to Vegas

    Tatar had been Erat 2.0 for McPhee. He was a disaster in Vegas. Barely played on their run to the Cup, not that we need him for the playoffs. He needs a big year.
  6. This team needs at least until 2020-2021 before the rebuild can end. I want two more Top 5 picks at the very least.
  7. Max Pacioretty traded to Vegas

    Arizona wanted a centre and reached for it. Had we taken Zadina, they likely would have taken Kotkaniemi. Ottawa is bad example for anything right now. Time will tell who ends up the better prospect. Way too soon to decide if Kotkaniemi was a bad pick, but I got the feeling early on too much stock was put into his second half last year.
  8. Max Pacioretty traded to Vegas

    He played wing but I've heard he is moving to centre this season. Maybe bad info.
  9. Max Pacioretty traded to Vegas

    Personally I don't draft Kotkaniemi over Zadina. Dude was revved up to be a Hab. I think he would have given 110% to be a star here. Maybe I eat crow on that when I'm 40. But for this team? No. Keep stockpiling centres. I want Hughes or Cozens in 2019 and Lafreniere or Byfield in 2020. One of the four would be amazing. Two of the four would be the making of a real contender. Let's say we finish dead last in 19-20 after moving Weber and Price and we win the lottery for Lafreniere. In 2019 we drafted Lavoie because Price had a decent season so we got 6th overall or something. We are now running with: C: Lafreniere, Poehling, Suzuki, Kotkaniemi L: Domi, Hudon, Lehkonen, RW: Lavoie, Scherbak, Bitten, Ylonen F: Drouin (can play anywhere) Now with this depth, we realize that Poehling and Lafreniere are real deal top centres while Suzuki can pivot to the wing. Maybe Kotkaniemi doesn't pan out as a top centre but ends up a really good 2/3 C. Suddenly we are running with a lineup that could look like Suzuki - Lafreniere - Lavoie Domi - Poehling - Drouin Hudon - Kotkaniemi - Scherbak/Bitten You could even move Kotkaniemi to the wing and have him replace Domi if he busts like I expect him to. Point is, Leafs (I know I know we all hate hearing about them as they haven't won anything but hear me out) drafted Nylander and Marner as centres and play both as wingers. That's much easier to do than draft wingers and make them centres. Also if say Matthews signs an offer sheet in Arizona and is gone next summer, Toronto still has Tavares and Kadri and can move Marner back to centre if need be. That's why you need heavy centre depth. Poehling, Kotkaniemi, and Suzuki is a start. I want more.
  10. Max Pacioretty traded to Vegas

    Domi - Drouin - Gallagher Tatar - Danault - Armia/Scherbak Hudon - Peca/Suzuki - Lehkonen Deslauriers - Plekanec - Scherbak/Armia INJ: Byron, Shaw Probably close to what we see. Suzuki was playing wing in Vegas for the rookie tournament until the last game where he got to play natural C. Really shouldn't play in the OHL. If Tatar was a RW things would make much more sense. Of course, if I was coach with this brutal lineup... Tatar - Danault - Drouin Domi - Peca - Gallagher Lehkonen - Hudon - Armia Deslauriers - Plekanec - DLR/Alex Chiasson
  11. Max Pacioretty Watch

    Pacioretty - Stastny - Tuch is likely the line in Vegas.
  12. Max Pacioretty traded to Vegas

    Not crippling, just another bad contract to throw on the pile. Luckily he is just there to fill a spot during the rebuild and not what Vegas originally traded him for. In an ideal world, Tatar bounces back with a great season and we flip him for more picks. Doubt that happens but the possibility is there. Suzuki though, he does have skating issues. The team needs to be proactive about it. Get him skating better and he's a 30 goal scoring 1C in the NHL. Don't fix it and he plays wing and might struggle out the gate.
  13. Max Pacioretty traded to Vegas

    Tatar sucks. Maybe he bounces back in Montreal but he was getting scratched in Vegas and has an ugly contract. Suzuki is the score. Some will say where is a first round pick but that's Suzuki. 19, was 13th overall, has the potential to be a top six player in the NHL at centre or wing, could definitely put up Pacioretty numbers or better. I have more faith in him than Kotkaniemi and would call him our #1 prospect. The 2nd is good too. I wonder if Patches signed an extension in Vegas.
  14. Habs Rookie Tournament/Camp Thread

    I have hope for Bitten.
  15. Habs Rookie Tournament/Camp Thread

    Whomever was in charge of putting that team together and not noticing what other teams were doing? Shame. You gotta put equal talent out there. If Ottawa and Toronto and Boston are playing AHLers you gotta do the same.
  16. Max Pacioretty Watch

    Kotkaniemi will likely be our Kadri. He is right now our best prospect but once he hits his stride we need to have a Matthews and Marner and Nylander surrounding so he looks underrated. If he is our best young player for years to come he either broke out huge or we neglected a proper rebuild and will suck for another 10 years.
  17. Non-Rocket Habs Prospect tracker

    They allowed the most goals in the west last season so he could have his work cut out for him. 2nd worst team in the league.
  18. Permanent Trade Proposal Thread

    Heart to Bergevin is the movie 300. You might have lost but you played so hard everyone is talking about you instead of the winners.
  19. Are the Canadiens above average under MB?

    I just want him to quit and join the Panthers so he can run out Barkov.
  20. 2018 NHL Offseason Thread

    Kraken or bust for me. People have already designed awesome logos.
  21. 2018 NHL Offseason Thread

    He had a lot of outs too DSP for Matteau and getting PAP for Briere only to have to buy out PAP and watch him score 20 goals in Toronto. The Benn deal was another out which people thought was a win. He's a big part of why Bergevin thought the defence was improved from the year prior.
  22. 2018 NHL Offseason Thread

    13: Cole for Ryder and a 3rd, Desjardins for Tokarski 14: Kristo for Thomas, Diaz for Weise, Collberg/2nd for Vanek/5th 15: Moen for Gonchar, Nevins/7th for Mitchell, 2nd/5th for Petry 16: Weise/Flash for Danault/2nd 17: Eller for x2 2nd rounders 18: Beaulieu for 3rd, Redmond for Deslauriers, Plekanec for 2nd 19: Bourque for Armia, 4th, and 7th That's his good trades.
  23. 2018 NHL Offseason Thread

    Nine Coyotes scored more goals than Domi last season. If he scores 10+ that will be a very good sign.
  24. Max Pacioretty Watch

    We were talking about prospects the other day. There just wasn't anymore news. Of course that doesn't fit your martyrdom so
  25. Max Pacioretty Watch

    As the years have gone by and I've had some hindsight, moving Desharnais to LW in 13-14 was the ticket. He could have put up 40-50 points as a PP2 guy feeding passes for either Plekanec or Eller. Instead Therrien kept him at centre and hated removing him.
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