Link67

If that's the case then all we have left is to hope that day does come soon, for all our mental well being, we have to hope that day does come where Molson can look Bergevin in the eye and say.. And we, the tortured fanbase driven to madness by years of confusing acts we could not comprehend at the time, get to finally celebrate the final reveal of the Grand Bergevin Plan. Our minds broken from years of abuse, we could celebrate and be proud we survived our journey through madness.. That is the only hope we have left.... Its all we have left....ITS ALL WE HAVE LEFT!!!!!............. sorry I think the madness has begun to set in

Kopitar? that changes things... I was seeing him more as Bjugstad or Mikko Koivu type, with the potential to surpass both if all goes very well with his development. One thing is for sure, his stats pale in comparison to a guy like Barkov as a 17 year old playing pro hockey in Finland, so he ain't on that level by the look of it.

One does not simply fleece Ken Holland the way you are suggesting

DON, please, just stop, I know you always try to see the good in everything this organization does, a part of me commends that effort on your part. But this time, we dropped the ball here, we have traded the more talented, more skilled, and more productive player and we get some intangible upgrades, a speed boost, and some extra cap space. Just get in the room filled with most of the hockey world that just doesn't get why this just happened, and sit down with the rest of us. Don't go in the other room where only Bergevin, a couple of his lackey's and a shamed Owner sit all by there lonesome, smoking cigars laughing about how the world will eat crow when Domi becomes a 75 point player. I beg you, stop this crusade, it is madness to see this trade as anything less than it is in its very simplest form, Unnecessary and not an Upgrade.

You don't really need math to note just by watching them, that Zadina is the more Dynamic and Skilled player. However he is not a C or a LD, and for that reason, they might just be crazy enough to leave him on the board when they get on that podium. The thought of passing on that kid still scares the shit out of me to this day, even though I know it is very likely at this point, I don't know, leaves my stomach in knots thinking about a scenario where Zadina is flirting with 40 goal seasons elsewhere year after year.

I love Domi, he is going to be a fun player to have on the team, I appreciate the Speed and Tenacity he has, the Gallagher-Like hockey he plays. However I'd still be walking into this team's Front Office like.. and that's just all there is to it

Considering Scherbak is now the winger with the most raw talent and a skill cap with the highest ceiling..... He has definitely set himself as a target now.

If this offseason is a disaster we might not even have to wait until how Galchenyuk's season plays out at center. But if that adds itself to the mix, then a continued improper asset management and improper evaluation of player personnel should be the end of it.

Oh boy, where do I begin, I'll go at this from a Pros and Cons standpoint for me I guess. PROS: - Max Domi is another Gallagher type, Him and Brendan Gallagher on the team certainly adds a lot to the Tenacity and Energy in our top 6, ,definitely no floater shifts with these 2. Max Domi is essentially a playmaking Gallagher, with excellent speed, and the ability to make players on the ice with him better while he is out there, I like it a lot. - Max Domi comes with the baggage to understand this type of Market and how to navigate within it, how to be a Pro in a Huge Market like this is without a doubt of great value. Something Galchenyuk had already shot himself in the foot over. - Max Domi is a very high end skater, at least it shows me this team values the pace of the game has changed, and high end skaters are a commodity that cannot be overlooked anymore. - Max Domi saves us a good chunk on the cap, and allows us to retain him much longer than we would have retained Galchenuk, who was just waiting for UFA status to bolt out of here. CONS: - We traded a Top 6 forward, for something that was not a positional need, but merely a team dynamic need, a need that even if fulfilled, will never be seen by anyone but those within the locker room, privately. This is Subban for Weber all over again, a trade to help the locker room, to help the coaching staff, a dividend the general public will never see or know about even if it works, thus setting yourself up for waves of critics. - Galchenyuk was traded while his production of his last campaign was not near a pinnacle by any means, while his market value was low, because as Pierre LeBrun said on RDS today, his reputation is tarnished and mixed across the league. Therefore in my opinion, where we are all expecting Galchenyuk for some young Dman or Center, we can't even fetch that because his value at the moment is below that level of return. I Don't understand why we would pull the trigger on a deal while that is the case, we still had time to let him try to shell out a productive year next year to trade him while his value is potentially higher next summer, it was worth the risk to wait because you still have 2 guaranteed years of him here. - Stats wise, we broke even on point totals, lost on Goal totals, thus making no improvement on any stat sheet, with nothing more than a hope the change of scenery swings the pendulum of production our way going forward. - Again there is another move, that continues to show there is a disconnect in what this management wants to see on the ice, and what moves to make to get there. They want to add speed and better attitudes to the team, Great, Speed is a top of the food chain need now, great attitudes help you build team chemistry. How they go about achieving those things is mind boggling, the pieces being traded are not the pieces you should be using for organizational intangibles and individual skills, those pieces should be used to get positional needs, glaring holes in the structure of your Roster. We started this summer with 4 ways to fill our Positional needs, The Draft, Pacioretty, Galchenyuk, and Free Agency. We are now down to 3 ways, time ticking, and the only shot at a certainty for a fix, coming from the 3rd overall pick. Who knows what Pacioretty gets moved for now, and who knows what UFAs we land. In conclusion, This trade is a waste, Max Domi is an awesome player, I love the kid, I am sure we will all love him as much as we love Gallagher for the same reasons, but he doesn't fill a positional need, and he will likely never be a high end point producer, thus making this trade a waste. I am not going to say the trade is horrible, because Domi is awesome, but I will say I don't like the trade because we wasted one of our few chips, for something that didn't fix what we needed to fix. At least in my mind, the attitude and character on this team does not outweigh the positional holes we have to fill, and for that reason, I don't like this trade.

Pretty sure Bob Mackenzie is not going to dictate in any way shape or form who Trevor Timmins is going to be picking 3rd overall this year. He has a guy I am sure he is locked in on, and short of a trade happening that changes what order we are picking, he is extremely likely to stick to his own agenda.

Nearly no chance, It already doesn't work before you can even put a package together. He is a RHD, we need a top LHD, We are Division Rivals, trading assets of great value between Division Rivals happens so rarely anymore. He is going to get stuffed out west somewhere far away for the best package they can get, we are not even in the portrait IMO.

You are being far too passive in your thinking, take a step back for a minute, look at this team, its make up, the season it just had, the time we have left of our elite players being elite. From that view, tell me this isn't the time for some bold thinking, some bold moves, anything but status quo must be attempted, we just witnessed first hand what status quo last summer caused, it would be utterly unacceptable to even consider NOT making bold moves at this point. Also Zadina doesn't worry me one bit, this kid has everything he needs to become another 30+ goal scorer in this league, his chances of being a bust, just from a skill and character point of view, are nearly non existent. I'm at a point where I am done watching our valuable assets fester until their Free Agency, we have major roster needs that go unchecked year after year, and quite frankly those needs have reached a point where they outweigh any one individual player not named Price or Weber. We have to look at using whatever avenue available to fill those needs once and for all, because I can assure you, nothing will be more destructive than having the holes that plague this team year after year remain unfilled. If there is any hope for a re-tool to work properly it has to start with a gangbuster summer of getting shit done.

You have to think Vigneault is in their sights

Zadina justifies moving Pacioretty for organizational needs, you essentially drafted his replacement and his upgrade in one fell swoop. You can then consider moving Pacioretty for nothing less than a package which includes a really good LHD prospect Dman that fits your needs, or a prospect C projected as a top 6 player in the near future. It seems written in the stars that we are moving Pacioretty, it seems highly unlikely that when he does get moved, the package coming back doesn't include organizational needs. Many Paths to filling our needs, There is. Consider them all, we must.

You have no idea how helpful his Character/Attitude and motivational cheers in the locker room, while wearing his suit because he is a healthy scratch, could have been. For all you know, those fundamentals he could have brought might have helped them beat Tampa in 6 and even swept Vegas.

The good thing in all this debate is there really isn't a catastrophically bad choice on the horizon, none of the kids being thrown around have a very good chance at all at being busts, we are merely knit picking who might be a slightly better NHL player at this point. Hughes could easily become a top pair LHD puck mover, while Zadina can easily become a 40+ goal scorer who gets his name in the mix for more than a few Maurice Richard Trophies. We should just be happy one of these players could be a part of our team in a few weeks, rather than splitting hairs wondering which one is the wrong choice. However I will say that I agree going against the grain very often, against a large pool of opinions is a dangerous game. The same opinions of many, are often times more correct than the same opinions of a few, the mindset of everyone is wrong but me, the path I see only I see, just trust me. That is a very dangerous state of mind to carry, a mindset many Leaders in human history used to bring their own civilizations to ruin. Its fine to have something you strongly believe in and follow on it once in awhile against all other advice or opinions, but going against the grain should be done very sporadically, the law of average is not on that side of it at all. Take who wants to be a millionaire for instance, how many contestants on that show end up being right when they choose against the grain of the Ask the Audience lifeline, versus how many end up being right when they go with the choice from the audience? If you took every very reputable pre-draft ranking group/site, and created a list that averages all their selections, and used that list, and all its many opinions, and blindly drafted the whole draft using only that list, it would undoubtedly have far more correct choices than wrong ones. The law of average is on your side at that point, THAT many expert opinions cannot be wrong about everything, going against the grain must always be a very calculated move, but once in awhile it can pay off huge. An open mind always sees the big picture more clearly, and I hope these guys go to the table in Dallas with an open mind, the immediate future of this team depends on this Draft being a big success.

Yeah I agree there, if you have 1 guy, and you are rigid on that, you can't 100% guarantee his availability unless you take him where you are.

Yeah I understand what your saying, I'm just saying we could make the pick for an organizational need from outside #3, so why not get the extra asset while still getting one of the players you want? If Ottawa is really high on Zadina and willing to part with 4 and 22nd, while we are really high on Hughes, why not make the pick we want to make anyway and collect the extra 22nd you otherwise wouldn't have if you just pick Hughes at #3 for instance. Trading down from this spot does make sense, because a Player like Hughes or Kotkaniemi will not be taken at #3, unless it is by us. I don't believe leaving extra assets on the table from a deal, while still getting one of the 2 players anyway is the right move. Any pick in the top 40 could potentially blossom into an important NHL player, we have seen this scenario happen time and time again. The more chances we have to swing the bat in the top 40, the better the odds of hitting a home run. There is only a potential loss of assets if you pick Hughes or Kotkaniemi 3rd and keep status quo, there is only asset gains if you pick one of them 4th or 6th while acquiring some extra top 40 picks in the process. Whether we pick 3rd or 6th, it is nearly guaranteed one of the 2 are there, and very likely both. So if we are picking for organizational need and skipping on Zadina, our options are - Pick Hughes or Kotkaniemi 3rd and call it a day - Pick Hughes of Kotkaniemi 4th or 6th while gaining more top 40 picks Which option really looks like it make more sense?

All I can do is hypothetically play it out as if I was at the table, if the other teams grab Hughes, Kotkaniemi, and Wahlstrom for whatever reason at 3 4 and 5, then we simply take Zadina, other wise one of the 3 player Hughes, Kotkaniemi, or Wahstrom is definitely there at #6, which is as low as I think we should try to go, while giving us extra assets in the top 40 for sure.

I'll go into a theoretic situation if I'm at the table, we decide we like Hughes, Kotkaniemi, and Wahstrom as our guys, in that order. We try to trade down a couple spots, first we knock on Ottawa's door 4th and 22nd for 3rd and 38th? if they say no they will take their chances, we knock on Detroit's door, 5th, 33rd and 36th for 3rd and 38th? If they say no, we call it a day on the attempts to move down and pick Zadina 3rd, If Ottawa says yes we pick Hughes 4th, and get a 22nd to play with now too, If Detroit says yes, but Arizona picks Hughes, you take Kotkaniemi 6th, and now have a 33rd and 36th to play with. If no one moves, you pick Zadina, and when you trade Pacioretty, you make damn sure you get a high quality prospect at the C or LHD position, knowing you just drafted his replacement, and very likely his Upgrade even.

Look I hear what your saying, I'm mostly on the same page, but a rigid mentality at the draft table with no desire to morph or adjust the plan even at the last moment is always a recipe for disaster. My take is, there is virtually no one who would take Hughes at #3 besides us, because our need for a LHD is pretty much on par with our need for a top 6 C. If we stay put at #3, player evaluations and close races aside, Zadina is as pure a goal scorer as you are going to find in this draft with only Wahlstrom in the same elite category, we need elite goal scorers, even more desperately if Pacioretty gets moved. There isn't just positional needs involved here, there are individual player skill needs as well, we know we need a Puck Moving D, we are also going to need a high volume goal scorer if Pacioretty is moved. Next point is, at #3, your chances of drafting an NHL ready player are fairly high, Zadina will very likely break into an NHL lineup as early as this coming season, an NHL ready prospect helps your team for a decade, starting immediately. Drafting a player who may not be NHL ready for a season or even 2, at #3 is a bit of a waste of valuable years to help your team make a quick turn around. With that said, I have no issue what so ever if this team identifies Hughes, a LHD with all the skills we lack on the back end, as their guy, but why take him at #3 when he would very likely still be there at #4 to 6? Trade the 3rd pick if Zadina isn't your guy, trade it, move back a few spots and collect yet another top 40 pick along with it. This same rule applies if they see Kotkaniemi as their guy, or Wahlstrom as their guy, they are all great picks, all would serve us well for one reason or another, but none need to be picked at #3, and if we are to pick one of them, I'd rather do so with another late 1st pick or early 2nd pick in my book. This way once we are done making our first pick, we can go crazy on the top 6 potential prospects or top 4 potential D with all the picks leading into the 3rd round. If even 2 out of the 4 or 5 reach their potential, then this draft becomes a home run for this organization, exactly what it needs out of this draft.

This is going to wander all over, because for every report that he is going to do such and such, there is another report suggesting he will do something else. For instance, Bergevin himself said, the Canadiens were not going to draft based on needs, but based on the best player available who projected to have the highest potential ceiling. Then we have reports suggesting we will trade down to pick a Center. There is other reports suggesting we might trade down for a Dman, I mean you can see where this is going right? We basically have no clue what is going to happen until Timmins gets on that podium, but based on the only report coming straight from the horses mouth, we are likely taking Zadina at 3rd overall, since he is highly regarded as the next best player after Svechnikov. If we are to take a Kotkaniemi, or a Hughes, we better not be doing it from 3rd spot. You don't want Zadina because he doesn't help you in your areas of need, Fine (Jesus that sounds crazy) But like hell if we should be giving Ottawa a franchise goal scoring winger on a Silver platter though. You know every plan they have for this draft, is built around the top 3 very likely being Dahlin, Svechnikov, and Zadina. You also know they are just foaming at the mouth, at the slightest chance Bergevin does something off the wall and leaves Zadina on the board for them. Zadina stands the best chance of making us eat crow for passing on him compared to anyone else available at #3. So if we leave him up for grabs, he will be taken by the very next team, Ottawa, and we will get slaughtered on all fronts about it for years the moment he starts being a top 7 goal scorer in this league. That is a Fate I do not care to endure, so in my opinion, if you don't take Zadina, you trade down for someone who will, we must under no circumstance leave him available freely, for a divisional rival, who can make us pay for it 6 games a year and possibly a couple playoff rounds during the next decade.

I think it will look more like the Drouin situation, where the team very interested isn't willing to give up the big package for him unless he signs long term. We would agree to let them talk, if they come to an agreement, then we sign him to the contract with the terms they agreed to and make the deal.