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This is a Shea Weber appreciation thread I thought. Why are we still dwelling on Subban's absence? Weber is here EXACTLY as advertised, he is every bit the player everyone, who loves and respects him as a player, say he is. He is a work horse, a man mountain, he is mean and somewhat nasty. He is smart and makes quick passes, he has an accurate and booming shot. He is also going to be this way for quite some time because he is simply a physical specimen who has avoided major inuries in his career and plays his game around assets that will not decline with age. He relies on quick passes, strength, conditioning and one of the best slappers in the league's history. These are the tools he uses to plant himself near the top of the d-men list. The one thing every player loses with time is footspeed, it is literally the aspect he relies on the least to make him elite. Much like Markov is able to stay good with his age because his vision, his passing, his stick work are never affected, he is simply slower than he once was. Weber has allowed for 2 things of great importance that make this team work better this season. He has made is possible to move Beaulieu to the top pairing and accelerate his development, he will be an absolute stud just from studying and playing along side Weber. And consequently the second he has done is allowed Markov to move where it was most optimal for him to play at the minutes that were most optimal aswell. I think we all know if Weber was not here, Beaulieu would not be on the top pair and Markov would be forced to remain there playing against tougher opposition for longer than he should be.

I'm sure Pacioretty gave him an accidental death stare after the comment though because it was a perfectly appropriate thing to say right? it is actually the opposite, people who HATE the trade try to cover up this situation like a cat in its litter box, disputing that it was meaningless and out of context. When in fact there is more evidence to suggest it was exactly what it was, than not. And it likely got to the level it did because, NEWSFLASH, likely not the first inappropriate locker room moment he has caused. It is no different than having an annoying co-worker who is annoying to most of the staff but proves to be useful at his job so everyone tries to cope with it, but once in awhile when he keeps pushing buttons week after week someone has enough and tells him where to go and how to get there. the death stare was one of these moments, Therrien's harsh post game comments at times were such moments, Markov's reaction to an end of the season question a couple seasons ago was also such a time, countless little scenario's with one common denominator. I will say that I fully agree with Subban on why the trade happened, it was absolutely a philosophy change, a personality trade. His off ice personality would sometimes clash with his team mates, and his on Ice personality was unpredictable, uncontrollable, and probably uncoachable to some degree. Weber brings the entire opposite to the table, he buys into a system,you know what play he is going to make on the ice 97% of the time whether you are a coach, defensive partner, or a fan watching on TV. Off the ice he commands respect from his peers across the league, teammate or opponent, and conducts himself as a quiet stalwart pro on a daily basis. These factors played a role in this trade well before Age, and Talent ever did.

My sentiments as well, who is to say this kid won't develop at an elevated speed getting some NHL games under his belt? He could very well make a quantum leap forward with his development adjusting his play to the speed and necessities of the NHL after 9 games than he ever could dominating the OHL again, and that is exactly what he did btw, dominated. Do I think he is an NHLer at the moment? no, I think he is very close, so I'm not really shocked that he is getting the 9 game look. He is physically able to be in the NHL, and that is first and foremost for an 18 year old, secondly he has NHL talent, all he is missing is the fine tuned details to help him be consistent shift after shift. I don't think it is crazy for them to suggest he may actually learn these adjustments quickly while playing at the highest level.

Couldn't agree more with what is being said. From an observational stand point Weber has played 3 games at a high level, each one nearly identical. And at the same time has been very solid to the point where he has made me cringe in my chair the least of all the guys playing on that D. He has certainly made it easy for Babcock to play him those minutes by being steady as a mountain each game so far.

Whole heartedly disagree with just about everything here. Firstly, captain was voted by the players, Subban lost fair and square by a vote from his peers. Management romances played zero part in this. Secondly am I to understand you are not a fan of 30+ goal scorers with a 4.5 million cap hit? The guy is trash based on a sub par road trip to florida you witnessed and 2 pre tournament games? Thirdly, if we are really taking away goal importance based on what the score of the game is then we are headed for no mans land. This guy scores, he scores more than anyone else on this team, but its his bum play that bothers you? This is giving me nightmares of the 84 point Kovalev season. Where dispite his production people just kept dwelling on those pockets of games he would string together where he looked dormant. He was a floater, a lazy bum, who out scored everyone on the team though, but a bum no less. Little did we know it would remain the best production by anyone in the last decade on this club, but he was a bum. Were doin the same crap with Max now, he scores in clusters its because they don't mean anything, he slumps for 2 weeks its because he is lazy and a gutless captain. I wonder if in 10 years we are not all goin man I wish we had a guy who could score 30+ 4 or 5 years in a row like when we used to have patches...

I've always found the Subban is a diver stuff a bit much. It was like a trend that rival clubs started like Bruin fans and Leaf fans to bash the guy. Probably because they had some doozies in that department in their own cupboard.

Come on man this is so far from accurate, there has never been a bum in the nhl who scored 30 or more goals 3 seasons in a row who is ENTERING his prime, not one. Let alone one who freakin backchecks. So he is streaky, So what, so are 80% of the snipers in this league. But a bum? That is crazy talk, maybe his leadership wasn't the best, he was also a rookie captain who will learn from certain situations he went through last season. He is also going to have some huge help keeping that room sharp with Weber at his side, and he will learn a lot from him. All in all i am glad we have him, and I think its absurd that people would go on to call a leading scorer a bum just because he is struggling out of the gate in some pre tournament games.

Actually the point a lot of folks, yourself included, miss, is PK gets another contract at 33. That contract could easily end up being a 6 or 7 year deal at a cap hit more than his current one. We at least already know the kind of money Weber will be making until the end of his career. PK will be making a lot more so in actual fact. PK might end up having the uglier more expensive contract going into his 40's. And 1.2 million will seem better than it looks now when Price is asking for 12 million a season in a couple years.

I am sure there was arguments made both ways, i am sure it was not a unanimous decision. But it was a majority decision, of that much i'm certain. With that said if the majority of that room and those guys deem Weber is a guy they want on their team before Subban, then i still feel as i expressed in my previous post. They are looking beyond the scope of talent, because in that department PK cannot be touched. You have some of the best hockey guys in the world in there, some of the best at building teams and some of the best as coaching them. In the grand ensemble of things, they don't like PK as much as Weber for their team. So once again, I value their opinions, evaluations, and knowledge more than a spreadsheet and that is why I feel this trade could be good for us. Make no mistake it is not some land slide victory I Am talking about, but possibly a good hockey trade. At the same time it is also why I strugle with people trying to call this the worst trade since yadi yada. It is also not a land slide loss if it is one. We traded a more talented player for a player who makes others better with his leadership, for a team guy who also specializes in scoring in an area we have struggled with for several seasons now, the pp.

Everything looked alright from Price except that 3rd goal rebound. Weber looked steady and played very solid, I agree him and Doughty looked the best. Pietrangelo looked off in that game. A good effort but between Quick being magic and some of our big guns not looking so big, we fell short.

Of course you are right, they just sat at a big table, looking at eachother blankly. They then began speaking in juicy fruit comercial language and squeaked farts out from under there armpits for 3 weeks while they figured out their roster. Not a word was spoken about PK or anyone because commandant didn't see it in writing. Give me a god damn break those men were in there picking PKs game apart, Doughty's, Weber's, all of them. And in the end whether you like it or not they chose Weber well before they would have chose PK. And at the end of the day all i'm saying is if I stand back and look at the situation I value they're opinion more than yours in this matter. They think Weber is the better player for their team so I believe Weber will be the better player for ours.

From a talent perspective it is not even close, Subban is more talented than everyone on that D besides Doughty. But from a perspective of fit, structure, team building, these guys just don't seem to like how Subban does things, its as simple as that really. If they did he would have been on the team 5 defensemen ago.

Geez are you that much of a stat guy that we need freakin transcripts of conversations held in a room or the point is moot? Use your imagination a little, read between the lines, heck i'll make it easier for you, it was AT LEAST a majority vote, so that means at least 5 of those guys thought Weber was the better guy to have on the team. Does that make it any less startling? pick any of those 5 guys you want and ask yourself these 5 people believe Weber is the better guy for a team, but they are all wrong and I am right? No doubt about it? Doesn't even make you question it?

Poile does not fall in their category no sorry, those men are champions, and have built teams that stay near the top for years at a time, and if you present me a player who spoke about this trade that is as respected as Price or Toews than yes he would fall in the category.

I agree, questioning things is healthy, and sometimes necessary. in this case though, when the group you are talking about comprises of Ken Holland, Doug Armstrong, Mike Babcock, Joel Quenville, Barry Trotz, Claude Julien, Bob Murray, Rob Blake, Carey Price, Jonathan Toews. And all of them agree its Weber over Subban, is it not time to look in the mirror and question if you are wrong?

Price is adding himself to a growing list of Respected NHL players, Coaches, and Managers who believe Shea Weber is the better player for a team. But I can tell you this is going to get swatted out of the air quickly because around here the only things that matter in this debate are Age and Stats. Certainly not the opinion of those who are adding themselves to the list that all share the same opinion on the players involved.

I'm willing to bet he comes into this thing looking like he didn't miss a beat, because that is what happens when you are the best player in the world at your position.

Come on man, you really trying to say that a 4 year experienced GM is controlling a room full of guys like that? Subban is an elite talent, but above talent comes many aspects in hockey, and in those aspects they don't like what they see. There is no way to twist that, no way to look past it. Bergevin is a supporting cast member here, he knows it and so should you, he is there to throw some 2 cents around but he is certainly not going to be the guy to sway a major decision like leaving Subban off the squad. There are far more experienced and knowledgeable guys in that room that even he respects enough to make those kinds of calls. Say what you will of other groups picking these teams, but this group has been excellent for the better part of a decade now, Ken Holland, Bob Murray, and Doug Armstrong have all masterfully built strong teams and have hockey I.Q for days, they are all in the top 5 of their profession hands down. Babcock, Quenville, Trotz, and even our old pal Julien have some of the longest reigns as coaches and coached teams to excellence for years, they see how a game is structured at an elite level, that quite frankly, no spreadsheet or amount of games we watch on our couch can make up for. Between these 7 guys alone, if they were able to agree that Subban does not fit on their team, but Weber is one of the first guys they pick, i'm opening my eyes wide and tuning my ears, because these guys CANNOT be ignored on the matter. Now i'm going to make something clear, i've done it a few times in this thread already but i'll do it once more. I was sad when this trade was announced because we lost PK, as a fan of this team, I loved having an elite level d-man of his caliber on the ice. With that said, In my eyes, Weber is far from finished, he is far from junk, and he is currently, one of the top d-men in this league. The way some have treated him in this thread is really what fuels me to even continue to beat this dead horse, We traded Subban not for a piece of crap, but for another Elite d-man, who some of the greatest hockey minds in this league agree holds more value to a team than Subban does. Is that not what we are supposed to do here? Build a team? Every page there is almost always a comment of some sort trying to say Weber is going to be a bum within 3 or 4 years, so how does a guy who has been at the same elite level as a guy like Chara for several seasons now, barely had any injuries that could slow him down in the near future suddenly become useless in 3 years? That doesn't smell like Biased, nonobjective opinions to continue to twist the main plot in here to anyone? that we traded the Great PK Subban for Master Splinter?? For god sakes Andrei Markov, who has been a very good d-man his whole career, suffered back to back major knee injuries in his mid 30s still kept his game in top line form until last season, at the age of 37. Zdeno Chara finally showed he was no longer elite last season, at the age of 39. is it really insane to think Weber could at least do what those guys did? If Weber's first season in Montreal where we start thinking "eeehhhh this is probably the begining of the end" as we just did with Markov last season, is at the age of 38 then we get 7 awesome years of all the great things this guy brings to the table, F'n enjoy it, Christ.

and i'm sure you know this by the multitude of Nashville games you have watched start to finish over the course of the last 10 years I suppose?

Therrien is not part of the Elite, I'm simply showing that in this instance, his opinion is the same as some of the elite hockey minds in this sport, to just chalk that aside as meaningless is nothing short of biased to me.

see here is what bothers the crap out of me in this thread, we have a clear line of folks in this thread who are going above and beyond to glorify Subban and just throwing everything Weber brings to the table in a buzzsaw to twist and turn this whole debate into "it is impossible to win this trade because Subban is great and Weber is finished, only devine intervention can save us now". Really? the most talented hab since Lafleur? How about Roy? Raw talent how about Kovalev? heck maybe even Price is more talented since he is maybe the best player in the world at his position? Subban is the most popular player since Lafleur of this there is no doubt, but talent? There have been more talented players here who have accomplished just as much if not more than he has already and for the sake of this argument you are sweeping them under the rug. As far as Idiotic contracts go Subban's was no closer to being out of the idiotic zone than Weber's, in fact the Eliotte Freidman article claims Edmonton just about ran away from the negotiating table with us because of it. And this whole argument I keep seeing that Subban is gone because his style does not fit Therrien, we made changes to make our average coach happy and in doing so traded away the great one. Understand this folks, aside from all our opinions on Therrien and Bergevin there is something much more absolute than any of our expertise on the subject... Tom Renney, Doug Armstrong, Rob Blake, Ken Holland, Bob Murray, Mike Babcock, Claude Julien, Joel Quenneville, Barry Trotz that my friends, is the list of well respected Hockey Guys, who like Therrien, Do not believe in the way Subban plays the game. That is a list of guys who believe Weber's style of hockey helps you win more games than Subban's style. I don't need to really explain how all of us take a back seat to the opinion of a list of that magnitude do I? These guys don't have an agenda, they don't have a secret allegiance they can't shake, they spend hours together making objective decisions using their experience and knowledge. All I am asking, begging even, is that we look at those names, all of them carefully, and ask yourselves does a panel of guys like that, really make a blatant wrong choice of this magnitude? Is the notion that this trade is not even close to lopsided kicking in yet? Maybe even starting to look like we may have slightly won?

I said a play like this in my post, because Subban has made many individualistic blunders of the sort that numb the brain. Please don't be trying to act like that is the only play of its kind from Subban, there are many and we all know it and have seen it. I could have easily fired in the very next video I saw on the list where he goes for a wonderful skate along the opposing blue line only to lose it after holding on to it for twice as long as he should have and giving Iginla the game on a silver platter, with 3 minutes to go in a tie game to boot. So once again, i'll reiterate my previous sentiment, I will not have to watch Weber make a play like it, you can roll the stat red carpet for Weber's nightmare game but no where will you find him making a play like the one I showed or the other 3 i could have showed.

Ok here is what I know for sure, I am never going to have to watch Weber make a play like THIS, and turn the TV off 10 seconds later and stare blankly at my black screen for another 10 seconds again. end of story

Vlasic and Weber will be a problem for a lot of players i'd bet

If you win a Norris during a half season, or you are a 3 time Finalist, who is actually the more dominating d-man overall? Barry Trotz, one of the most respected Coaches and Hockey minds in the game today just blantly said Montreal Traded a very good player for a superstar. If you read between the lines there is almost a slight towards how PK plays the game, the high risk end to end play doesn't seem to sit well with Trotz either, a very team Canada like analysis of our dear friend PK, probably why similar minds left him at home. How many more highly knowledgeable hockey people need to say the same thing over and over before we take the blinders off and realize there is more to this than we will ever truly know. I've made my peace with it, I am ready to embrace all the things Weber brings to the table, and i'm certainly not biased enough to just swiftly backhand off the table the opinion of a guy like Trotz.