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The Chicoutimi Cucumber

Did Bob blow it by not getting Comrie?

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At 3 mil which is only 1.5 now with the season half over and Comrie a UFA at season's end it is a great moev by muckler becuase of their current injury sit.

As for the Habs they really do not have a need for him because he would push a player such as Plekanec out of a roster spot as soon as Begin is back, and I believe Plekanec still is wokring hard and the second line was just not getting bounces.

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I agree. If the team's not going to be a contender, then fine, leave things the way are. But the Canadiens have proved through the first half that they have most of the pieces for a successful run, but that they're lacking consistent secondary scoring. Plekanec has five goals this season, he's on pace for 11. Yes, Kovalev and Samsonov have played poorly. And yes they're part of the problem. But they're still offensive players who have shown that level of skill over their careers. Plekanec really hasn't scored much or shown above average offensive talent at any point during his career, juniors and AHL included.

Why do people have to blame Plekanec for the scoring problems on the 2nd line. He is the balance guy, since when does Kovalev need somone to help him score. If he wants to he could score a goal a game. Put the blame where is needs to be-on Kovalev, say it like it is, he is a lazy player. Plekanec is the reason why that line has an even half decent +/-. Plekanec is not being paid to fill the net with goals, having said that, he has 1 less goal than Samsonov and 4 less points but makes 3.075 MILLION DOLLARS LESS!!!!!. So average that out and then tell me who needs to be replaced on that line. Plekanec is not the problem with that line, he is a good balance to provide some defence stability. If you want to improve it replace Samsonov. Who cares what kind of ability he has shown in his career, that was along time ago. Gilbert Dionne and Stephane Richer have proved they could score goals at one point as well. Mark my words, Samsonov will be gone this summer and Plekanec will not be.....unless he has to be put into a package because with Samsonov's salary/production he is untradable.

Plekanec at under a million dollars a year is an absolute steal for this club, and is invaluable, who would you replace him with at that salary? The guy makes under $500,000 a year and comes to play every night and in my opinion is more valuable to the team than Samsonov because of that, not to mention the fact that Samsonov makes $ 3.525 million dollars a year....and what do we have to show for that extra money- Poor defensive play and 4 extra points!!

Get off Plekanecs back, he's far from the problem on that line. And the only member of it that we are getting our moneys worth from.

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Gretzky must be relieved of one less headache in the dressing room.

Imagine the big heads in that dressing room : Comrie, Roenick, Nolan, Ricci, Joseph etc etc...

...anyway he is joining other players who perform well in the playoff !!

His stats in playoffs are 2 goals 2 assist...

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Comrie is going to be to Ottawa this year what Tyler Arnason was last year. Maybe a little bit better.

Ottawa in a few years will regret trading Kaigorodov

Why do people have to blame Plekanec for the scoring problems on the 2nd line. He is the balance guy, since when does Kovalev need somone to help him score. If he wants to he could score a goal a game. Put the blame where is needs to be-on Kovalev, say it like it is, he is a lazy player. Plekanec is the reason why that line has an even half decent +/-. Plekanec is not being paid to fill the net with goals, having said that, he has 1 less goal than Samsonov and 4 less points but makes 3.075 MILLION DOLLARS LESS!!!!!. So average that out and then tell me who needs to be replaced on that line. Plekanec is not the problem with that line, he is a good balance to provide some defence stability. If you want to improve it replace Samsonov. Who cares what kind of ability he has shown in his career, that was along time ago. Gilbert Dionne and Stephane Richer have proved they could score goals at one point as well. Mark my words, Samsonov will be gone this summer and Plekanec will not be.....unless he has to be put into a package because with Samsonov's salary/production he is untradable.

Plekanec at under a million dollars a year is an absolute steal for this club, and is invaluable, who would you replace him with at that salary? The guy makes under $500,000 a year and comes to play every night and in my opinion is more valuable to the team than Samsonov because of that, not to mention the fact that Samsonov makes $ 3.525 million dollars a year....and what do we have to show for that extra money- Poor defensive play and 4 extra points!!

Get off Plekanecs back, he's far from the problem on that line. And the only member of it that we are getting our moneys worth from.

I agree Plekanec should not be faulted for the second lines problems but at the same time he probably should not be playing on the second line either.

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I agree Plekanec should not be faulted for the second lines problems but at the same time he probably should not be playing on the second line either.

Yup, that basically sums up how I feel about Plex too.

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I agree Plekanec should not be faulted for the second lines problems but at the same time he probably should not be playing on the second line either.

Why not? He is producing almost as much offensively as Samsonov and twice as much defensively. He is not a problem on the 2nd line at all. People think for some reason that everyone on the top two lines need to be filling the net. Winning teams have a great balance on all 4 lines with offensive and defensive production, which is exactly what we have now, and that is why we are winning. I don't understand why people would want another scorer on that line, we would be terrible defensively with no balance. The scorers need to do their job and Pelkanecs will continue to do his.

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Why not? He is producing almost as much offensively as Samsonov and twice as much defensively. He is not a problem on the 2nd line at all. People think for some reason that everyone on the top two lines need to be filling the net. Winning teams have a great balance on all 4 lines with offensive and defensive production, which is exactly what we have now, and that is why we are winning. I don't understand why people would want another scorer on that line, we would be terrible defensively with no balance. The scorers need to do their job and Pelkanecs will continue to do his.

Why not? Because the scorers aren't doing their job on the 2nd line with him... And because he's just NOT a second liner long term; he doesn't have that kind of skill set. I mean, playing Higgins or Bonk on that line would provide you with an offensive AND defensively-responsible player, and they'd probably be able to keep up with Kovalev / Samsonov...

He's producing as much as Samsonov offensively, but Samsonov is DEFINITELY under-producing, so that's a bad measuring stick. The second line needs to score more points on a CONSISTENT basis, not just one game, and I'm not blaming Plex, but by not blaming him, I'm also not making it his responsibility becasue I don't believe he's a PERMANENT second-liner. I pray he proves me wrong and the line stays on fire. That would make me incredibly happy...

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Why not? Because the scorers aren't doing their job on the 2nd line with him... And because he's just NOT a second liner long term; he doesn't have that kind of skill set. I mean, playing Higgins or Bonk on that line would provide you with an offensive AND defensively-responsible player, and they'd probably be able to keep up with Kovalev / Samsonov...

He's producing as much as Samsonov offensively, but Samsonov is DEFINITELY under-producing, so that's a bad measuring stick. The second line needs to score more points on a CONSISTENT basis, not just one game, and I'm not blaming Plex, but by not blaming him, I'm also not making it his responsibility becasue I don't believe he's a PERMANENT second-liner. I pray he proves me wrong and the line stays on fire. That would make me incredibly happy...

So because the scorers are not doing THEIR job, Plekanec should be moved? How would you like it if someone came to your job and said, your coworkers were not doing their job, but they get paid 4 times as much so they decided to demote you? That is ridiculous.

Moving either Higgins or Bonk off of their lines is counterproductive because they are doing fine where they are at and there is no need to break up those lines. The more sound move would be to move Samsonov to the 4th line, which theoritically would give them a bit more jump and move Lats up to play with Kovalev and Plekanec.

Why is he not a good permanent 2nd line centre? Is Samsonov (the 3.525 million dollar man) a permanent 2nd line winger? Because if you ask any GM in the league right now who they would want on their 2nd line if they had to pick, I would say 90% of them would say Plecs, when you consider age, experience, salary and potential. He is still only a kid, 3 years under his belt, I believe he still has the potential to grow to be an even better player, while Samsonov has unlimited potential as well.......in the AHL.

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dude, if they had a stat for good chances BLOWN pleks would be #1 on the team. He has problems burying the puck and keeping up with samsonov/kovalev, how can you blame those two for lack of points when they set a guy up with open nets and he misses or he flubs a pass to them in the offensive zone and causes a turnover??

Like Shorthanded is saying, the line is not playing bad, but if you want it producing a point per game or higher they need someone with finish. Like I said in the other thread, once the line cools down again I think carbo should try putting Bonk with them and moving pleks to 3rd line. It might diminish the threat of the 3rd line, but it could turn the 2nd line into a real killer group.

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I've said it before and I'll say it again. Pleks is Jan Bulis redux.

I'd love to be proven wrong, but that's what it looks like to me.

And if Samsonov and Kovalev - both players with longstanding and impressive track records of offensive success in the NHL - were struggling on a line with BULIS at C, the obvious thing to do would be to replace Bulis. The same logic applies to Pleks. You don't dump or punish proven performers to reward an unproven and (thus far) unsuccessful nobody. (Having said that, the Russians obviously have to be held accountable).

Note also that I've never heard a bad word about Samsonov's work ethic or dedication at any point in his career. It's just a question of line chemistry and confidence, IMHO.

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Prospal for Aebischer, you heard it here first. Not saying it's a straight up trade, but each player makes 1.9M and Prospal can play center.

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dude, if they had a stat for good chances BLOWN pleks would be #1 on the team. He has problems burying the puck and keeping up with samsonov/kovalev, how can you blame those two for lack of points when they set a guy up with open nets and he misses or he flubs a pass to them in the offensive zone and causes a turnover??

Like Shorthanded is saying, the line is not playing bad, but if you want it producing a point per game or higher they need someone with finish. Like I said in the other thread, once the line cools down again I think carbo should try putting Bonk with them and moving pleks to 3rd line. It might diminish the threat of the 3rd line, but it could turn the 2nd line into a real killer group.

I have yet to miss a game this year and I don't think Pleks has missed more open nets or flubbed a pass in the offensive zone that caused a turnover more than any other player. It is not like his mistakes standout, like Ninimmas or Bonk's last year.

I'll tell you how you can blame Kovalev and Samsonov for not producing....You pay them 4+ million dollars a year and they don't produce. I have never heard Ovechkin, Crosby complain that they don't have superstar linemates, but they find a way to light the lamp every night. Those two have the talent to create goals and Pleks has in no way hampered their productivity if anything he should have made it easier for them to take chances because he is on the line and can cover any defensive lapses they may make. As for a point per game or higher...are you high. Samsonov has never produced like that and his best years in this league are well behind him. Why would you expect him to score like that?

Here are the numbers:

http://www.nhl.com/nhl/app?service=page&am...layerId=8466035 Samsonov

I feel that many habs fans don't want to put blame where it should be, simply because they are supposed to score. Using the argument, if Samsonov isn't producing it must be because his centre is not good enough, if he is that good he shouldn't need a superstar centre and besides is is supposed to have one of the most naturally gifted wingers in the world on the other side. Crosby, and OVechkin can't claim that.

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Samsonov has never produced like that and his best years in this league are well behind him. Why would you expect him to score like that?

Here are the numbers:

http://www.nhl.com/nhl/app?service=page&am...layerId=8466035 Samsonov

Samsonov is 28 and 'his best years are behind him?'

Give me a break.

PPG may be a bit high (but not for Kovalev). But there's no reason why he can't produce in the 60-70 point range - solid totals for a second liner, especially a guy who brings as much sheer speed as Sammy.

And the fact is that Pleks has looked consistently out of step with his linemates. Like I say - the proven performers aren't the ones you dump. The unproven nobody is.

Edited by The Chicoutimi Cucumber

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So because the scorers are not doing THEIR job, Plekanec should be moved? How would you like it if someone came to your job and said, your coworkers were not doing their job, but they get paid 4 times as much so they decided to demote you? That is ridiculous.

Moving either Higgins or Bonk off of their lines is counterproductive because they are doing fine where they are at and there is no need to break up those lines. The more sound move would be to move Samsonov to the 4th line, which theoritically would give them a bit more jump and move Lats up to play with Kovalev and Plekanec. Why is he not a good permanent 2nd line centre? Is Samsonov (the 3.525 million dollar man) a permanent 2nd line winger? Because if you ask any GM in the league right now who they would want on their 2nd line if they had to pick, I would say 90% of them would say Plecs, when you consider age, experience, salary and potential. He is still only a kid, 3 years under his belt, I believe he still has the potential to grow to be an even better player, while Samsonov has unlimited potential as well.......in the AHL.

You do it because the most important thing to do is to get balanced scoring from the team and have your scorers score. I'm not saying it's fair, I'm just saying look at the big picture. Plex's primary job is NOT to be a point-getter, he's just a band-aid solution for that line until somehting else is tried and works. Kovalev and Samsonov are PAID TO PRODUCE points. It's not like other ppl are producing those points so we can live without them, we NEED those points, we need that offense. So we need to find a way to get the guys who've scored before, consistently through-out their careers to score again, now. And if that means making one of the other lines not as good as it is, at the expense of making this line significantly better and thus the over-all team better, that's what you do.

If you move Samsonov to the fourth line, you can really only do that temporarily to light a fire under him, and then move him back to the second line and hope to God he produces, and if he doesn't, we still have a problem with the 2nd line and how do we fix it? We have to move Plex. He's the only moveable guy on that line because he has the skill-set to play on a third or fourth line. You can't move Sammy to the fourth line permanently, it'll reduce his scoring chances drastically, make him even less possible to trade, etc... it's just not realistic.

We're close to the salary cap and we're in need of goals; we can't just move a guy who's supposed to be scoring off a line who's focus is scoring, we have to work with what we have.

I have yet to miss a game this year and I don't think Pleks has missed more open nets or flubbed a pass in the offensive zone that caused a turnover more than any other player. It is not like his mistakes standout, like Ninimmas or Bonk's last year.

I'll tell you how you can blame Kovalev and Samsonov for not producing....You pay them 4+ million dollars a year and they don't produce. I have never heard Ovechkin, Crosby complain that they don't have superstar linemates, but they find a way to light the lamp every night. Those two have the talent to create goals and Pleks has in no way hampered their productivity if anything he should have made it easier for them to take chances because he is on the line and can cover any defensive lapses they may make. As for a point per game or higher...are you high. Samsonov has never produced like that and his best years in this league are well behind him. Why would you expect him to score like that?

Here are the numbers:

http://www.nhl.com/nhl/app?service=page&am...layerId=8466035 Samsonov

I feel that many habs fans don't want to put blame where it should be, simply because they are supposed to score. Using the argument, if Samsonov isn't producing it must be because his centre is not good enough, if he is that good he shouldn't need a superstar centre and besides is is supposed to have one of the most naturally gifted wingers in the world on the other side. Crosby, and OVechkin can't claim that.

I think you're misunderstanding me. I'm not blaming Plex, I'm just saying the line's not workign and I don't think it'll work with him. He's a great player, he's jsut being set up to fail. I'd rather he did his job (defensively on another line) and a solution was found to fix the chemistry on the second line with another player. It's purely a chemistry thing; if the line's not producing, you keep fiddling until you find a solution where it produces. and I think most here would prefer that solution included Kovy and Sammy since that's their job and Plex can do his very effectively on a different line.

Prospal for Aebischer, you heard it here first. Not saying it's a straight up trade, but each player makes 1.9M and Prospal can play center.

Ugh, I hate Prospal... Please, anyone but Prospal. He had that whole thing a few years ago where he called Brisebois a bleeping frog. NOT a good idea to bring this guy into a french environment.

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Samsonov is 28 and 'his best years are behind him?'

Give me a break.

Kjell Dahlin, Jose Theodore, Gilbert Dionne, etc.etc.etc.

You have to realize there is such a thing as an NHLer having one or two good years and topping out. This is exactly what Samsonov has done....but I know you will have to wait until we trade him or buy him out at the end of the year before you agree with this. But no this, he will not be around next year....I 100% guarantee it, then you can do your bad talking about how that was an unfortunate experiment.

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You do it because the most important thing to do is to get balanced scoring from the team and have your scorers score. . He's the only moveable guy on that line because he has the skill-set to play on a third or fourth line. You can't move Sammy to the fourth line permanently, it'll reduce his scoring chances drastically, make him even less possible to trade, etc... it's just not realistic.

We're close to the salary cap and we're in need of goals; we can't just move a guy who's supposed to be scoring off a line who's focus is scoring, we have to work with what we have.

I think you're misunderstanding me. I'm not blaming Plex, I'm just saying the line's not workign and I don't think it'll work with him. He's a great player, he's jsut being set up to fail. I'd rather he did his job (defensively on another line) and a solution was found to fix the chemistry on the second line with another player. It's purely a chemistry thing; if the line's not producing, you keep fiddling until you find a solution where it produces. and I think most here would prefer that solution included Kovy and Sammy since that's their job and Plex can do his very effectively on a different line.

Ugh, I hate Prospal... Please, anyone but Prospal. He had that whole thing a few years ago where he called Brisebois a bleeping frog. NOT a good idea to bring this guy into a french environment.

Are we not getting balanced scoring? We are one of the most balanced teams in the NHL. What do you people want from these guys, we are number 1 on the PP and PK and our scoring is very balanced. The only problem we have is Kovalev and Samsonov do not do their jobs on a consistent basis, and putting Bonk on a line with them won't speed up the line, Bonk is twice as slow as Pleks so I don't see how that will increase their productivity, what will increase it is - THEY HAVE TO STOP BEING SOOOO LAZY. If they can come to play every night, they will produce. It's as simple as that. When they want to play they score, moreso Kovalev than Samsonov but I digress.

As for Prospal, I agree with you that we don't need negative chemistry in the lockeroom

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Are we not getting balanced scoring? We are one of the most balanced teams in the NHL. What do you people want from these guys, we are number 1 on the PP and PK and our scoring is very balanced. The only problem we have is Kovalev and Samsonov do not do their jobs on a consistent basis, and putting Bonk on a line with them won't speed up the line, Bonk is twice as slow as Pleks so I don't see how that will increase their productivity, what will increase it is - THEY HAVE TO STOP BEING SOOOO LAZY. If they can come to play every night, they will produce. It's as simple as that. When they want to play they score, moreso Kovalev than Samsonov but I digress.

As for Prospal, I agree with you that we don't need negative chemistry in the lockeroom

Okay, I concede, we're getting balanced scoring, as in every line's barely scoring around the same number of NOT enough goals. I should have written that we need MORE scoring. So far, we've been winning mostly as a result of Stellar goaltending and way above average scoring from our D. We need more goals from our Forwards. A LOT more. And Sammy and Kovy do have to stop being more lazy, but if they're not going to do that with Plex, we should find the combination that will cause them to stop doing that.

I'm not suggesting moving plex off that line now, not after his big game, but if they're not more consistently putting up points as a line, if they go another five games barely producing offense, try something new. You don't want to be Just barely winning games, so you just let the things that aren't working continue to be broken, and then in the playoffs lose and be forced to experiment then.

I'd rather we fixed the second line (if it doesn't continue to work well) NOW, not later when we don't have the luxury of experimentation...

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I have yet to miss a game this year and I don't think Pleks has missed more open nets or flubbed a pass in the offensive zone that caused a turnover more than any other player. It is not like his mistakes standout, like Ninimmas or Bonk's last year.

I'll tell you how you can blame Kovalev and Samsonov for not producing....You pay them 4+ million dollars a year and they don't produce. I have never heard Ovechkin, Crosby complain that they don't have superstar linemates, but they find a way to light the lamp every night. Those two have the talent to create goals and Pleks has in no way hampered their productivity if anything he should have made it easier for them to take chances because he is on the line and can cover any defensive lapses they may make. As for a point per game or higher...are you high. Samsonov has never produced like that and his best years in this league are well behind him. Why would you expect him to score like that?

Here are the numbers:

http://www.nhl.com/nhl/app?service=page&am...layerId=8466035 Samsonov

Ok C-Love...I've been reading enough of your rants. It's time to put you in your place. Ovechkin and Crosby both play with TALENTED veteran players, or Malkin, (who is hardly a rookie)... that know how to bury the puck. Want to argue? Look at these statistics thus far.

GP G A PTS

Danius Zubrus: 2006-2007 Capitals 37 14 20 34

Chris Clark 2006-2007 Capitals 38 14 14 28

That Settles Ovechkin...Now lets see Crosby

Mark Recchi 2006-2007 Penguins 38 9 24 33

And Evgeni Malkin's stats don't need to be brought up.

With regards to your bashing of Alex Kovalev and Sergei Samsonov, you should zip it in a hurry. Kovalev is averaging almost a point a game, and Is averaging about .3 points less then Saku Koivu over the past two seasons. I don't see you bringing him or Michael Ryder up when it comes to salary? Kovalev and Samsonov would have a hell of a lot more points if Thomas "Oscar" Plekanek wasn't on their line. I think that's why you don't see them both "skating" at times. It's like Kovalev knows he's going to do a perfect set up and Thomas will screw up like always. If you reenacted the same play, 9/10 times Pleks would blow it. That has been the story of the year for the guy! Pleks has NO FINISHING TOUCH. What we are trying to tell you is Samsonov and Kovalev are elite hockey players. Plekanek has not proven himself...His Career statistics are this so far....

GP G A PTS

Plekanek: 108 14 29 43

Samsonov: 572 175 235 410

Kovalev: 957 325 449 774

How can you even stand up for him? Maybe if he wasn't such garbage, Kovalev and Samsonov would have more points and live up to their salaries. Other teams know to focus on Kovy/Sammy..They will give Plekanek as much ice and shots as he wants...why? because he is not a threat. If you put a Mike Modano, or a Mats Sundin between Kovalev and Samsonov, then who can you focus on? Pleks is a 4th Line Centre at best..I still think there are prospects who are much better than he ever will be, even at his highest potential. End of Story...End of Thread...If You are still delusional and attempt to come to Plekaneks defence for probably the 6th time this thread, tell someone who cares, because I stand firm on this matter, and I'm almost sure over 90% of this board will agree with me.

With regards to Comrie..I'll pat Bob on the back for that one....like Kaos stated earlier..he will be Ottawa's Arnason of this year.

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Are we not getting balanced scoring? We are one of the most balanced teams in the NHL. What do you people want from these guys, we are number 1 on the PP and PK and our scoring is very balanced. The only problem we have is Kovalev and Samsonov do not do their jobs on a consistent basis, and putting Bonk on a line with them won't speed up the line, Bonk is twice as slow as Pleks so I don't see how that will increase their productivity, what will increase it is - THEY HAVE TO STOP BEING SOOOO LAZY.

1-They arent lazy, if you see them not skating at some point it is usually because (especially Kovalev) great players dont need to be wheeling all over. I have played real life hockey with Kovalev types who are just great offensively gifted players, they always look like they are drifting around, yet still are the ones always first on a loose puck and first back to help the Dmen when if they get caught, they are just gifted that way with a great sense of offensive positioning.

2- Bonk slow?? What games have you been watching?? maybe last year with his injury but this year he is a dynamo, he is constantly saving icings by beating the other team's D to the puck, and his great speed is one reason we get so many short handed breaks.

3- You also deny pleks misses a lot of chances...ok

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i think that comrie's got better offensive potential than arnason and i mean that in two different ways...

he can contribute tn the team's ascencion on the ice much more regularly and he can contribute to the team's dissention in the dressing room more regularly...

he's a big risk...

the only positive factor with him is that he'll only be there (maybe) for three months which may not let the 'cancer' factor metastisize too much if at all because of his (maybre) short term presence...

GO :hlogo: GO!

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Kjell Dahlin, Jose Theodore, Gilbert Dionne, etc.etc.etc.

You have to realize there is such a thing as an NHLer having one or two good years and topping out. This is exactly what Samsonov has done....but I know you will have to wait until we trade him or buy him out at the end of the year before you agree with this. But no this, he will not be around next year....I 100% guarantee it, then you can do your bad talking about how that was an unfortunate experiment.

I was enjoying the debate until you compared Samsonov with Dahlin and Dionne. Not even close. Pleks is simply not a second line center. Look for him to replace Bonk next season on the third line. Or, watch him be traded this year. If Souray is traded, Pleks may even be a throw in with any potential deal.

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I was enjoying the debate until you compared Samsonov with Dahlin and Dionne. Not even close. Pleks is simply not a second line center. Look for him to replace Bonk next season on the third line. Or, watch him be traded this year. If Souray is traded, Pleks may even be a throw in with any potential deal.

so pekanec goes & bonk stays?... that's possible...

not likely but possible...

GO :hlogo: GO!

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so pekanec goes & bonk stays?... that's possible...

not likely but possible...

GO :hlogo: GO!

I'm really hoping they Play Plex on the third line next year and let Bonk walk away (I love him, but his salary cap hit is too steep and we have too many other worries) But DON'T keep plex on the second line next year, you're just setting him up for failure if you do...

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IF the plan is to put Pleks on the third line eventually, then I cannot for the life of me understand the failure to play Bonk on the second line for at least a few games. Doing so would give Pleks some useful experience on the third line, and possibly add a new dimension to the second line. I know that our third line is killer, but the fact remains - a fully operational Kovy-Sammy line would more than make up for a slight dip in performance from line 3.

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Did Bob blow it b ynot getting Comrie? Only if Bob blew it by not keeping Dagenais.

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