Future for now time?

[johnnyhasbeen]

Let's take a look at our center position for now and the near future.

We have Koivu Pleks Bonk Begin Murray Lapierre Grabovski Chipchurra Locke Aubin and Lemieux.

Pretty thick but only Saku is a top 2 line center. Maybe Grabovski will improve his faceoffs and be that guy.

I think Saku finishes his career here, hopefully becoming 2nd line

Don't see how Bonk would be dealt. He is a real 3rd line center.

Lapierre is probably the 4th, if not now next year for sure.

This will probably be 3 of our 4 starting centers next year with Grabovsky as an injury man, 1st line AHL. I say that because I am starting to see no point in furthering with either Chips or Locke, if Koivu and Bonk will extend for the long haul. Both should have good trade value and may help secure that elusive big center that we can hopefully have have 2 years.

Leaves Begin as extra center/wing , and Dogs get Grabby Locke/Chips Aubin and Lemieux.

"If" the right guy came along, for the first time in awhile, I say throw in one of our log jammed/future log jammed prospects.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Interesting thread.

It's been on my mind for a while - the Habs are STACKED with young talent at all positions (except maybe D), but there is NO obvious or even likely #1 centreman waiting in the wings. But Saku is not getting any younger - at most, you figure he has two years left of upper-echelon production, no?

So the emerging team seems to be a donut: with a hole down the middle.

However, I see this as a problem for a bit down the road (unless Saks gets hurt, God forbid). Nonetheless some sort of trade, or else creating cap room, for high-end talent at C is something management should seriously be considering. But I wouldn't want an old man like Robert Lang - that would ignore that the problem is more likely to manifest in 2-3 years.

Edited January 10, 2007 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber

[kaos]

Bonk will be gone as somebody in the NHL will be willing to pay him more than Bob Gainey will next year. Big centres who can play both ways are a commodity in the NHL, but I think we all know he's not a $2 Million dollar guy, especially with his limited offence. So that makes room for Lapierre and or Chipchura next year.

Grabovski with his smallish size and great speed will probably end up moving to the wing. Plekanec is not a second line centre, and probably never will be. Montreal does not currently have a second line centre in their organization and desparatley needs one

[Huckleberry]

I can't but feel like the Habs have a shot for this year's cup. Why give away the farm when we are winning.

[MAK]

hey we never know !!

I think we have a good mix of vets and young guns...just like in 1986 and 1993

86: richer, lemieux, roy, momesso chelios, svoboda...

93 brisebois, desjardins, schneider, leclaire, lebeau, dipietro(who??)..

2007: higgins lapierre, latendresse, perezhogin.

what we could use is a vet who never won the cup and could rally the team to his cause like a bourque or an andreychuck....the trouble is I just don't see who that could be...sundin maybe but toronto will never trade montreal such a high end player.

[beliveau1]

Trading Chipchura would not be a wise move - those who have seen him know there's far too much upside to this guy. A few others on that list need to be moved at some point, but not this guy. Doing so would be a huge, no colossal mistake in talent judgment. This guy will bring more to the table than (yes dare I say it!) Lapierre - And I do like what I see from him(so far that is, as a few successful games is not a career?)

I've never been in favour of mortgaging the future for a one shot wonder - it's never worth the trade off.

I want to see a long term contender that is capable of being there every year, and trading the future now won't bring that....

I believe the Canadiens (I now refuse to say 'Habs' as long as it is not capitalized = my humble protest?) are a good team this year, but thier current play 5 on 5 does not make them a true contender just yet. Can they pull off an upset = yes I think they can. But they are not yet a bonafide contender that has a better than even chance.

However given that opinion, I'd love very much to be proved wrong.... :hlogo:

Edited January 11, 2007 by beliveau1

[Easy Ryder]

what we could use is a vet who never won the cup and could rally the team to his cause like a bourque or an andreychuck....the trouble is I just don't see who that could be...sundin maybe but toronto will never trade montreal such a high end player.

Some veteran player that i see.

Gary Roberts

Matin Gélinas

Mark Recchi

Martin Lapointe

Adam Foote

Bill Guérin

Eric Brewer

Pierre turgeon !!joke

Patrice Brisebois !! joke

Peter Forsberg

[dark_faerie87]

Some veteran player that i see.

Gary Roberts - Cup

Matin Gélinas - Not sure, but he's been to the SCF several times

Mark Recchi

Martin Lapointe

Adam Foote - Cup

Bill Guérin

Eric Brewer

Pierre turgeon !!joke

Patrice Brisebois !! joke - Cup

Peter Forsberg - Cup

[BCHabnut]

I now refuse to say 'Habs' as long as it is not capitalized

I agree. Just as I would not use the name of one of the greatest Habs like say....oh...I don't know Beliveau1 without capitalizing it!

:?-

[Bullsmith]

Good thread, although I wouldn't by any means start giving up on Chipchura. Then again even those who've seen him as a potential Captain-type player have never seen him as a potential #1 center. The donught analogy fits out top young talents well. Among the young guys, I see Higgins and Latendresse being the real potential gamebreakers down the road.

The thing is, getting a real #1 center can be awful hard, and you can have a dangerous line without a scoring center. Or, like the Leafs, you can have a clearly elite center and still suck.

What the team has up front, is depth, versatility, character and chemistry. That's a lot. Okay we don't have depth at scoring center, but we've got guys like Higgins and Perezhogin who look like they can play on any line. Guillaume has shown great character and worked his ass off wherever he's been asked to play. Ditto for Pleks. In fact Ryder, Perezhogin, Higgins, Pleks, Latendresse, Lapierre are all getting better, and Kositsyn, Grabovsky and Chipchura are still high-end prospects. Only one even potential top center, yes, but man that's a lot of young talent up front.

Unless someone's coming in who's going to be around for a while, or unless we're getting a rent-a-vet at the cost of a prospect we secretly don't value too highly (which we can afford) I can see the team standing pat. Maybe in the off season.

[Fanpuck33]

dipietro(who??)..

Paul DiPietro, of course! I hadn't heard of him since almost 1993, then all of a sudden he showed up as one of Switzterland's best players in the last Olympics.

[Zowpeb]

I think Chipchura could be a very nice 2nd line centre if he continues to develop. He could be a nice 2 way, 65 point a year, 2nd line centre...and also has the intangibles to wear the C.

I would certainly consider trading some of the farm for a legit 2nd year C this year though...even a half year rental. I would also consider trading Samsonov and Bonk to clear the salary room.

Samsonov, Bonk and a prospect(one of Kosty, Grabovsky, Lapierre, Perezhogin, or a pick) for a very good C and a draft pick. Any team that makes that deal with us would be out of the hunt, still save some salary for next year with Bonk coming off, still have a nice, affordable, winger in Samsonov and have a very good prospect. We'd get a legit top 2 line C who will play with Kovalev, create some playing time for a young guy on their wing and a draft pick to help off-set the propsect/pick we deal.

If you want to trade for NOW we need to create salary room.

Who can we afford to lose that makes a lot of money?

IMHO, Pleks can replace Bonk on the 3rd line without much loss on the defensive end and probably with better offense.

Samsonov just isn't getting it done and his production can be replaced RIGHT NOW by one of Lats/Kosty/Grabovsky/Perezhogin. While that may not be great it WOULD mean a better offensive C beside Kovalev and the young player on the other wing would probably get added production too.

I see no real downside to moving Samsonov and Bonk in a deal with a pick/prospect for a very good #2 C. Toronto, Philly may all be willing to move a guy that would make this worthwhile...I still would like to have Sundin or Foppa on our 2nd line, both are FA's at year end so we wouldn't be locked into them long-term and we could probably afford one of them without Sammy and Bonk on our cap. This would also allow us to have some room to sign our FA's at seasons end.

[Chips]

Its wonderful to see such young talent waiting in the wings but if they aren't given a forum to shine then we will never reap the rewards of youth;

My 2 cents to this good thread is that we need to create space for the younger talented players to show off their stuff; and most importantly develop into the potential players they can be... short NHL moments in the career of a talented player can do wonders.

I like how Lats was transitioned in the roster by management. I hope that they have hopes and plans for the remaining group of highly talents kids.

Nevertheless, they are also there to improve the current roster, may it be by trades or permanent call ups! Laps IMO deserves more time with the big club.

Having said that I would be willing to trade the player I think has the best future upside for the Habs (Chips); if it means we can land a number #1 center or proven #2 center with a point per game pace or more!

Edited January 11, 2007 by Chips

[hat trick]

Paul DiPietro, of course! I hadn't heard of him since almost 1993, then all of a sudden he showed up as one of Switzterland's best players in the last Olympics.

Let's not forget about Gilbert Dionne! He was really great for a short time... then :puke:

Life's unfair... He gets to have his name on the Cup but not his brother...

[BCHabnut]

Who were New Jersey's #2 centres during their 2 stanley cup wins?

[Fanpuck33]

Who were New Jersey's #2 centres during their 2 stanley cup wins?

Check here.

[shortcat1]

Who were New Jersey's #2 centres during their 2 stanley cup wins?

i don't care... new jersey's the only team i despise...

GO :hlogo: GO!

[MAK]

Who were New Jersey's #2 centres during their 2 stanley cup wins?

who cares, who did they have on D and in goals ?? they didn't win with their offense.

up front they had bluechip guys and 3-4 offensive players.

[KoZed]

Perezhogin - Higgins - Latendresse

Grabovsky - Chipchura - Kostitsyn

Plekanec - Lapierre - D'Agostini

Maxwell - Aubin - White

Carle - Komisarek

Emelin - Fischer

Valentenko - O'Byrne

Halak

Price

Who were New Jersey's #2 centres during their 2 stanley cup wins?

They had Holik and Arnott as their 1-2 punch. That was a motherload to line up against.

Edited January 12, 2007 by KoZed

[CoRvInA]

Perezhogin - Higgins - Latendresse

Grabovsky - Chipchura - Kostitsyn

Plekanec - Lapierre - D'Agostini

Maxwell - Aubin - White

Carle - Komisarek

Emelin - Fischer

Valentenko - O'Byrne

Halak

Price

What is this Kozed I think you beat me to it... is this the lineup in three years if we dont trade or draft anything better?

I would think its this if one step further is achieved in all these players performances

Higgins-Grabovsky-kostitsyn

Latendresse-Plekanec-D'agostini

Perezhogin-Chipchura-Lapierre

Maxwell - White - Aubin

Can we live with that?

Its not the worst thing in the world but I doubt it gets to that!

[dark_faerie87]

Where's the love for the second Kostitsyn brother?

[KoZed]

In any case, we've got plenty of guys who can play center: Higgins, Plex, Grabs, Chips, Lapierre, Aubin, Maxwell, White, etc.

[Zowpeb]

In any case, we've got plenty of guys who can play center: Higgins, Plex, Grabs, Chips, Lapierre, Aubin, Maxwell, White, etc.

Which is exactly why we should trade one of our expendable prospects with some salary ballast for a very good C to play on our 1st or 2nd line.

[KoZed]

Which is exactly why we should trade one of our expendable prospects with some salary ballast for a very good C to play on our 1st or 2nd line.

I agree... but not this year. We've got too many UFA's and unknowns. If we're to sacrifice a prospect, we need to make sure it will fill a long-term need. And we don't really know if this summer we might have more pressing needs than a C.

With Markov, Souray, Rivet and Niinimaa all UFA's to-be, it might be more urgent to get a D than a C next season if we end up not being able to re-sign some or all of them. We have the kids to play C; but we dont have that much depth on the blueline.

I'd ride the current roster for the season; and give our prospects one more developmental year to better assess their value and potential and give Plex or Higgins or any other young guys a chance to see if they can hold a top C spot.

Then in the summer, fill the tank on Draft Day, and after the summer see which veterans are still there and maybe then swap a prospect for a vet.

[Zowpeb]

I agree... but not this year. We've got too many UFA's and unknowns. If we're to sacrifice a prospect, we need to make sure it will fill a long-term need. And we don't really know if this summer we might have more pressing needs than a C.

With Markov, Souray, Rivet and Niinimaa all UFA's to-be, it might be more urgent to get a D than a C next season if we end up not being able to re-sign some or all of them. We have the kids to play C; but we dont have that much depth on the blueline.

I'd ride the current roster for the season; and give our prospects one more developmental year to better assess their value and potential and give Plex or Higgins or any other young guys a chance to see if they can hold a top C spot.

Then in the summer, fill the tank on Draft Day, and after the summer see which veterans are still there and maybe then swap a prospect for a vet.

I'm not suggesting we get a long term solution at C...I'm talking about a 6 month rental for the playoffs.

We have enough prospects to trade 1 in a deal with, as per my example, Samsonov and Bonk for a quality C like Sundin/Foppa/whatever. That means we clear 4+ million off our cap next year, since those C's are UFA, so we can resign 2 of our 3 d-men UFA's...Niinimaa is due a big drop in pay and I wouldn't re-sign him anyhow. Plus, if we reallly wanted to fill some holes through trading prospects we have plenty of viable prospects to trade and we'd still have a stocked farm system to draw from.

We could deal 4-5 prospects and still have lots of quality on our farm...IMHO. Just look at all the prospects you listed and thats not even including our goaltending depth(Halak, Price, Danis), our D-men(Carle, O'Byrne, Valentenko, Emelin, Fischer), our next draft(to re-stock who we deal) and some of our lower tier guys who still have some possibilities(Locke, Milroy, etc...).

I realise that not all prospects pan out but thats EXACTLY why I trust our staff to deal some of them to fill a need now. We have a far better read on our prospects then any other team, combined with the fact that they often don't pan out and that we have so many, we might as well deal from our position of strength.