Congrats to the Conservative Party of Canada

[zumpano21]

As you may have noticed in the last couple of weeks, Harper et al. have announced many pro-green initiatives with respect to:

preservation of the Great Bear forest

subsidies for the implementation of greener household appliances

taking a pro-nuclear stance in the Alberta oilsands

Personally, I didn't think they had it in them and am glad to see they're more progressive than their name would suggest.

[Pierre the Great]

they're just putting back old liberal programs that they axed 5 months ago to be honest. Nothing really new here.

[MAK]

they want to cover the extracting more oil in alberta on american demand.

how will they be able to do so ?? using nuclear !!

Not that green anymore, now, is it ??

[zumpano21]

they want to cover the extracting more oil in alberta on american demand.

how will they be able to do so ?? using nuclear !!

Not that green anymore, now, is it ??

Actually, nuclear power is one of the cleanest forms of power available. There's no emissions at all. The only problem is disposal of spent uranium which is way overhyped. The problem with nuclear energy is the word - nuclear. It comes with connotations that it doesn't deserve.

[Bacchus]

subsidies for the implementation of greener household appliances

This is the dumbest feint I have ever seen. House-hold appliances? Since when has house-holds been responsible for the damage of the environment. If his policies were to be truely green he'd be gunning at industry. House-hold energy use is a drop in the bucket. His policy is an attempt at a sleight-of-hand!

[Athlétique.Canadien]

they're just putting back old liberal programs that they axed 5 months ago to be honest. Nothing really new here.

So?

(Sorry Pierre, you had to know that was coming)

Edit: All of these earmarked bills will be decided in the next election. The budget will fail. The Conservatives are going to try to make it feasable on the fiscal imbalance question (predicting). Chances are there will be major strategic keys in that budget. One that actually may appeal to a new demographic. Problem is that the fiscal imbalance has certain provinces screaming murder so it's looking shaky. But, I wouldn't be surprised if they work some tweaks out. The strategy is to create (figure this is what is going on) a situation where a defeat of the budget has the immediate affect to alienate the opposition from a certain desired core of voters.

Actually, nuclear power is one of the cleanest forms of power available. There's no emissions at all. The only problem is disposal of spent uranium which is way overhyped. The problem with nuclear energy is the word - nuclear. It comes with connotations that it doesn't deserve.

Yeah, my grade 12 Global Geography teacher warned us about this. That is, when all is said and done in the short term of our species nuclear will be seen as the way to go.

Edited January 23, 2007 by ATHLÉTIQUE.CANADIEN

[Pierre the Great]

So?

(Sorry Pierre, you had to know that was coming)

Edit: All of these earmarked bills will be decided in the next election. The budget will fail. The Conservatives are going to try to make it feasable on the fiscal imbalance question (predicting). Chances are there will be major strategic keys in that budget. One that actually may appeal to a new demographic. Problem is that the fiscal imbalance has certain provinces screaming murder so it's looking shaky. But, I wouldn't be surprised if they work some tweaks out. The strategy is to create (figure this is what is going on) a situation where a defeat of the budget has the immediate affect to alienate the opposition from a certain desired core of voters.

Yeah, my grade 12 Global Geography teacher warned us about this. That is, when all is said and done in the short term of our species nuclear will be seen as the way to go.

The average Canadian doesn't care about the 'fiscal imbalance'.

Yeah I knew the So was coming. But doesn't it look really bad that Harper so publicly denounced those Liberal programs and then does an about face in obvious play of oops I hope the public doesn't notice what I did.

I'm not a Liberal apologist everyone on here knows my political views are NDPish. You don't know what Liberals stand for, the tent is too big. It depends who runs it and right now they're going in the right direction but they've got a long way to go. Martin knifed the party up too much.

The thing I don't get is why do people fawn over Harper like he's Jesus. The guy is playing you (the canadian public) and I can't believe you don't see this. Ever since day one he's been fixated on his precious majority. He's super power hungry.

The conservatives and ndpers always critized the Liberals for 'going with the wind' i.e. the polls. And yet this is exactly what Harper has been doing since day one. Thats not running the country thats wanting power. I guess it only takes an outsiders view to see this.

You usually would know what direction a person wants to take the party/country. But with Harper I don't know what he'd do. His reformist roots say he'll turn the country upside down but then he's been wearing this costume lately doing something different. He's too much two sided.

[zumpano21]

So if Harper didn't implement the new green policies - you'd rip him to shreds.

Now that he did implement the policies - you rip him to shreads.

?

[Pierre the Great]

no he flipped flopped. He was against them at first cut them and then saw his poll numbers drop and tried to hit the redo button.

I wouldn't have ripped him if he hadn't cut the same programs to begin with.

[Mont Royale]

The thing I don't get is why do people fawn over Harper like he's Jesus. The guy is playing you (the canadian public) and I can't believe you don't see this. Ever since day one he's been fixated on his precious majority. He's super power hungry.

The conservatives and ndpers always critized the Liberals for 'going with the wind' i.e. the polls. And yet this is exactly what Harper has been doing since day one. Thats not running the country thats wanting power. I guess it only takes an outsiders view to see this.

You usually would know what direction a person wants to take the party/country. But with Harper I don't know what he'd do. His reformist roots say he'll turn the country upside down but then he's been wearing this costume lately doing something different. He's too much two sided.

a. Nobody's fawning over Harper. The Conservatives and Liberals are pretty much dead even in the polls right now.

b. He's super power hungry - yes. And that distinguishes him from the other political parties how?

c. Harper did not 'go with the wind' since day one. In fact, when he first came to office he rather single-mindedly implemented a number of his promises, despite the gnashing of teeth of those it affected (particularly dismantling the day-care deals with the provinces and sending cheques to families instead). Lately, yes I will agree that he seems to be increasingly hesitant to take a stand, which is troubling.

Yes, he did flip-flop - that's business as usual. He did so on the issue of taxation of trusts, too. The more important question is, did he ultimately do the right thing? On both issues, I would say yes. It's regrettable that he changed his stand, but neither issue was/is politically significant enough to affect a lot of votes in the last election, or the next one - so it's not like it's comparable to "read my lips - no new taxes", for example.

It's fine to criticize somebody, and certainly politicians always provide lots of material. However, our choice in the next election is not between perfection and Harper; it's between Dion and Harper... and Layton, and May. I'll have to hear more of what Dion says and see more of what Harper does before I make up my mind, which I suspect is where most Canadians are at with it.

[Athlétique.Canadien]

The thing I don't get is why do people fawn over Harper like he's Jesus. The guy is playing you (the canadian public) and I can't believe you don't see this. Ever since day one he's been fixated on his precious majority. He's super power hungry.

The conservatives and ndpers always critized the Liberals for 'going with the wind' i.e. the polls. And yet this is exactly what Harper has been doing since day one. Thats not running the country thats wanting power. I guess it only takes an outsiders view to see this.

Hear ye, hear ye, we are outsiders and no nothing about politics. You are not entitled to an opinion til Pierre gives us one. Anyone with a university degree in political science such as myself is obviously a moron.

[Mont Royale]

Hear ye, hear ye, we are outsiders and no nothing about politics. You are not entitled to an opinion til Pierre gives us one. Anyone with a university degree in political science such as myself is obviously a moron.

[Pierre the Great]

Hear ye, hear ye, we are outsiders and no nothing about politics. You are not entitled to an opinion til Pierre gives us one. Anyone with a university degree in political science such as myself is obviously a moron.

Well I see the rest of the world give there opinion on politics in america it seems only fair to do the same to other countries.

[Dirty Harry]

I cant believe how bad the govt screwed us with the income trust thing, cost me thousands of dollars. I voted for them last two elections, but won't this time unless they back down. It hasnt even been proven that the income trusts were costing the country any money, and they used a sledgehammer to fix a minor problem that could've been handled a lot more delicately. Then they have the nerve to say it was for the good of canada, HAH, which canada?? Cuz it wasnt very good for the millions of canadians who owned income trusts. I hope the Liberals stick to this issue and burn them over it if they dont back down.

Overall there has been a real lack of domestic leadership from Harper, government spending has gone UP bigtime under their watch. Very little fat has been cut. A lot is riding on the next budget, we will see whether or not they make amends or continue to water down their platform until they are just another unprincipled party desperately trying to buy votes based on how the pollsters tell them.

Also this global warming crap is so stupid. Maybe for the USA this is a problem, but for Canadians oil and other raw commodities are one of the main reasons we are doing so well. We could be the next Saudi Arabia, why the hell would we want to stop that?? Also, isnt global warming GOOD for us too?? If everything gets warmer, way more of the country will become livable. Besides, even if we savaged our economy down to cuban levels, the cutbacks would still have insignificant effect on the global temperature. What a load of BALONEY, Global warming hype envirofacism is ANTI-CANADA.

[Pierre the Great]

I would be really bad considering most of the population of Canada lives in Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal where when the seas rise they go under water. And if you live near a mountain aka Calgary your water depends on snow melt. No snow equals no water.

And it has to do with pollution. Pollution will start killing more people then obesity and cancer.

[Bacchus]

I would be really bad considering most of the population of Canada lives in Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal where when the seas rise they go under water. And if you live near a mountain aka Calgary your water depends on snow melt. No snow equals no water.

And it has to do with pollution. Pollution will start killing more people then obesity and cancer.

Your expecting the sea levels to rise over 57 meters? I think that this is beyond comprehension. Not even the most liberal estimations project a rise of this much.

So if Harper didn't implement the new green policies - you'd rip him to shreds.

Now that he did implement the policies - you rip him to shreads.

?

Not so green in my opinion ... more like a deep dark kahki, green mixed with a lot of black, which represents the money and votes he is trying to generate. Home appliances? Please! Nuclear energy (how about energy reduction .... now that is green). And saving a (1) forest .... he is definitively un-green IMO.

[Dirty Harry]

I would be really bad considering most of the population of Canada lives in Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal where when the seas rise they go under water. And if you live near a mountain aka Calgary your water depends on snow melt. No snow equals no water.

And it has to do with pollution. Pollution will start killing more people then obesity and cancer.

The sea is rising only a few feet and will only affect very low lying cities bordering the ocean (like venice or new orleans). Even Vancouver wont be affected much since its in the mountains and its hight above sea level shoots up right at the shoreline.

Pollution isnt a big problem in Canada, its been way down since 40-50 years ago. Its places like China and Mexico where they have the pollution problems.

[Mont Royale]

And it has to do with pollution. Pollution will start killing more people then obesity and cancer.

Could happen. We shouldn't forget that a lot of cancers are caused by pollution.

We could be the next Saudi Arabia, why the hell would we want to stop that?? Also, isnt global warming GOOD for us too??

Chase the money! Screw the environment - it's only where we have to live.

[Dirty Harry]

Did you even read my post Mr. Smartguy?

Nothing wrong with our environment, serious pollution has really declined in Canada over the last 20 years. Its countries like China and India that have acid rain and rivers of sludge these days.

[Pierre the Great]

Did you even read my post Mr. Smartguy?

Nothing wrong with our environment, serious pollution has really declined in Canada over the last 20 years. Its countries like China and India that have acid rain and rivers of sludge these days.

Have you been to Toronto during the summers?

Estimated Number of deaths per year in Canada due to pollution:

4,000-9,000 people a year and growing these are '05 stats.

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/ahc-asc/media/nr-cp...05_32bk2_e.html

The leading causes of death in the future in Canada and The US will be

Obesity related diseases (heart, diabetes)

Cancer

Pollution

[Bacchus]

Nothing wrong with our environment, serious pollution has really declined in Canada over the last 20 years. Its countries like China and India that have acid rain and rivers of sludge these days.

I wouldn't got that far. Have you ever been around South East Ontario? Windsor and all that? Lots of polution. Also, how many idiots drive at 150 KM/hr in their gas guzzling SUVs?

Yes, China and India and the US are the main culprits, but Canada isn't as green as you seem to want to believe.

Also, no, I don't want to become the next saudia arabia. how much do you know about that country aside from their oil production? I'd rather keep our oil for things that matter ... and not to sell to our buddies down south for cheap. Oil is used for other things aside driving cars. Medecine is one of the most important, but by no means the only product that depends on petro-chemicals.

[Pierre the Great]

No plans to follow Bush on oil consumption, says Harper

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...y/National/home

unbelievable. Harper doesn't get it. If you increase fuel economy you use less gas. Which in return saves gas from disappearing quicker in Alberta. And I thought this man was an economist?

[Dirty Harry]

OK seriously, what city in the world does NOT have smog problems on a muggy, windless summer day?? Until we all have ECONOMICAL (not the current crappy ones that require 3 times energy input compared to output) hydro fusion engines this will be a problem, but its not as significant as alarmists make it out to believe, really, 3rd highest reason for death, GIVE ME A BREAK. Like its a plague or something.

Also, no, I don't want to become the next saudia arabia. how much do you know about that country aside from their oil production?

Umm, that they are ridiculously rich? Yes Im aware they have problems, but all their neighbours have these problems too because of their crazy religion and medieval barbarism, doesnt have anything to do with their golden goose.

We've got TRILLIONS of barrels of oil in this country, 2nd only to Russia most likely. But squirrilling away instead of selling it for 100$ a barrel and ending all our money troubles sounds like a much better idea!

AT least Harper is being honest, the USA isn't going to savage their economy either for the sake of some ridiculous panic, it's all just talk until we see budgets and laws that actually do something (which arent forthcoming until 2050 or something).

[Mont Royale]

Did you even read my post Mr. Smartguy?

Nothing wrong with our environment, serious pollution has really declined in Canada over the last 20 years. Its countries like China and India that have acid rain and rivers of sludge these days.

Where is the evidence that 'serious' pollution has declined? While there's been some improvements in some areas, there has been regression in others. Pollution comes in many different forms and from different sources, so a blanket statement that it has generally declined isn't accurate.

Air pollution is worse than ever. Yes, lots of cities have that problem in the summer - but does that mean we accept that? I'm not very old, but I remember a time when Toronto didn't have significant issues in the summer with smog. Now, it's hotter (global warming, contributed to by pollution) and there's more smog (pollution, again).

This causes people to die.

That statement should cause some alarm and tell you that we should do what we can to address it, not say "well, we've cleaned up a few lakes, and some fish are coming back, so everything must be fine." Progress has been made, but stopping now would be a mistake.

I agree that the remedies should be done in a way that causes as little economic pain as possible. Pollution didn't become a problem overnight, and it isn't going to be fixed overnight. But your point of view seems to be that it isn't a problem at all, and we shouldn't waste our time worrying about. I strongly disagree.

P.S. "Mr. Smartguy" - I like it, thanks. I'm going to consider changing my user name to that.. B)

[Dirty Harry]

Air pollution is worse than ever. Yes, lots of cities have that problem in the summer - but does that mean we accept that? I'm not very old, but I remember a time when Toronto didn't have significant issues in the summer with smog.

Maybe that has more to do with growth than wasteful pollution? 20 years ago Toronto was way smaller than it is now.

Now, it's hotter (global warming, contributed to by pollution)

Yes the there is global warming, but its time to cut through the balony. We dont know how much of global warming is even caused by humans, and how much is the earth's natural warming up. Also, most of the global warming damage has been caused by ozone killing pollutants, so tell me why we are on a witch hunt for natural products of life like CO2 and Methane from cows' butts? Why are we on such a tear to anti emmission measures in Canada when in countries like China they pollute and waste 5 times more than us per tonne of steel produced in their factories?

Just seems pretty ridiculous to be trying to savage Exxon and US steel when they are actually doing a pretty good job at cutting down waste and nasty pollutants compared to petronas and china heavy industry company #17.

Some of this stuff is just ludricous too, like recycling. Its just a stupid feel good measure that does nothing for the environment. Does anyone ever think about all the pollution those big trucks cause? And where do you think they take teh stuff? Down to a a very energy demanding factory where it is melted and then re-forged into something else. Then shipped over to a bottling plant or paper plant and remade again, then shipped over to the company thats actually going to use it. All this for what, to save a tree? Do any of you have any idea how many trees there are in Canada? Even the UN says we have a net rate of 0% deforestation.