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It's pretty bad when your 3 & 4 lines are your shutdown and scoring lines


kw11habs

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:angry: Just finshed watching the 4-2 loss to the Isles & I'm pissed. The top 2 lines provided no offense what so ever. Our 3 & 4 lines were our 2 best & they have Samsonov & Perezhogin who were both poison as always. So give Bonk & Johnson & Lapierre & Streit a couple of decent wingers & we have 2 real good lines, but I don't know where we get a couple of good wingers unless they're in Hamilton. Latendresse actually played a good game but our supposedly offensive guys like Ryder, Kovalev & Higgins were they even dressed? Ooh yeh they were all on the ice for some goals against I did see them out there. If Bob waits until the deadline we'll be sellers instead of buyers the way we're going. I say win or lose tomorrow against Pittsburgh the trade deadline for us making the playoffs is now. Offer Philly: Aebischer, Samsonov, Plecanek, Rivet , Murray, Dandenault & a draft pick for Forsberg, Gauthier, Knuble & M. Grenier. Then offer Perezhogin & Ryder to Columbus for Zherdev. Ship Ninnamaa somewhere for a draft pick & send Downey to the minors. Then we look like this:

Huet/Danis or Halak

Komy/Markov

Gauthier/Souray

Cote/Bouillon

Forsberg/Knuble/Kovalev

Koivu/Higgins/Zherdev

Bonk/Johnson/Begin

Lapierre/Latendresse/Streit

Call up someone from Hamilton to fill in until Begin is back and leave Grenier on the roster as a 4'th line winger as our Heavyweight for games when we need one.

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You lost me when you turned on EA's NHL 07 and made a couple of deals.

I don't own EA's NHL 07 and if you don't think some trades are needed then you just keep playing your EA NHL 07 and maybe The Habs can play in your fantasy play-offs and you'll be a happy Habs fan. I'm talking the real deal not your fantasy games.

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Aebischer, Samsonov, Plecanek, Rivet , Murray, Dandenault & a draft pick

for

Forsberg, Gauthier, Knuble & M. Grenier

Perezhogin & Ryder

for

Zherdev

I'm talking the real deal not your fantasy games.

:blink:

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I don't own EA's NHL 07 and if you don't think some trades are needed then you just keep playing your EA NHL 07 and maybe The Habs can play in your fantasy play-offs and you'll be a happy Habs fan. I'm talking the real deal not your fantasy games.

Oh I think a trade is needed.

I'll stick to trades that can actually happen though.

For example: Sending an UFA, Underachiever, Plekanec, Underacheiver UFA, Player Who Wasn't Taken On Waivers For Free, Dandenault, and a Pick will not get you a Superstar (broken), Pylon, Knuble, and Fists.

I'll put it in a paraphrased conversation between GM's...

"Hey there, I'll send you my junk for your junk and a superstar."

"NO WAI!"

"But I'm sending a pick toooooooooo!!1!"

"lollerskates!!"

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How was Samsonov Poison, he was a big part of the best line the habs currently have.

Perez only problem is he takes really bad penalties at bad times. Otherwise leave him alone, he does have the best plus minus on the team.

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I don't own EA's NHL 07 and if you don't think some trades are needed then you just keep playing your EA NHL 07 and maybe The Habs can play in your fantasy play-offs and you'll be a happy Habs fan. I'm talking the real deal not your fantasy games.

He was pointing out that the deals you were conjecturing were really bad, the kind of trade that would work in a game but would get a hearty laugh our of a real life GM. Philly is asking for A LOT more than the collection of average Joe's you want to send them. And Columbus isn't going to move Zherdev for a one-dimensional winger and a guy who hasn't proven he can score in the NHL consistently. I don't care how bad Zherdev is doing under Hitch, they're not gonna dump him for that.

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Perezhogin could be dealt before the deadline I think.

I've always got the feeling that Gainey has never really warmed to this kid, and his recent three game stint in the press box in favour of Murray really puzzled me.

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I agree I have a feeling that Perezhogin could be dealt.

Having said that I do think it would be a mistake....once this guy finds his niche in the NHL I think he could be a star. It is just a matter of him playing with the right players and the right overall situation.

Having said that....I think if Forsberg was involved in a deal involving Perezhogin.....and they win the cup..... it might be worth it....maybe.

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Even though kw11's trades are irrealistic, his mind is in the right place.

This team will not make the playoffs, unless changed and changed in a big way. We can't trade garbage for good players: it is going to be some 'big' players moving. Kovalev, maybe Higgins?

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If the Habs end up trading Kovalev or Higgins I think it would be a massive error. I think they team needs minor tweaking...there is tons of skill on this team. The first half of the season was not a fluke. Once the first two lines get going the Habs will be a team to be reckoned with!

GO HABS GO

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So is this a fluke? We've lost what, 11 of 17 or so, and are now 4 points - 4 - of being out of the playoffs.

Good teams make adjustments over the course of a season. Have we made none, and just hope that the 'magic' will come back? Or do you think it is a question of line combinations, work ethic...

Not being sarcastic, genuinely want to know. I'm of the opinion that this team is nowhere near contention and needs to be changed.

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I agree I have a feeling that Perezhogin could be dealt.

Having said that I do think it would be a mistake....once this guy finds his niche in the NHL I think he could be a star. It is just a matter of him playing with the right players and the right overall situation.

Having said that....I think if Forsberg was involved in a deal involving Perezhogin.....and they win the cup..... it might be worth it....maybe.

Ive said it before - if you want to make real value trades, you have to give to get. those of you shouting for trades have to realize that. of course we'd trade sammy or zhogs or murray for better value. reality is, that's not going to happen. the question is, would you trade higgins? laperierre? saku? max? plex? huet? kosty? begin? those are the guys other teams want. i wouldnt trade any of those guys for a short term fix.

given the time of year, the real question, my friends, is whether gainey is going to be a seller. souray, rivet, bonk, abby, ryder, johnson.

if someone wants them, they want them for a cup run. we will only get youth/picks in return.

you'll note i'm not posting any proposed solutions here. i honestly wouldnt know what to do if i was gainey. i tell you one thing though, to trade away value guys, you have to believe in your team. you have to know they will go to war for you. i worry that the habs we've seen for about the last 6 weeks arent that team

lastly, kovalev. wtf do we do with this guy?

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Perezhogin could be dealt before the deadline I think.

I've always got the feeling that Gainey has never really warmed to this kid, and his recent three game stint in the press box in favour of Murray really puzzled me.

I think that Perezhogin's stint in the pressbox shows that Gainey won't deal him. Had he been shoping him, he would have let him play. It's just too easy for the other GM to oint out that he's been riding our bench and then lowball Gainey (not that he'd accept).

Even though kw11's trades are irrealistic, his mind is in the right place.

This team will not make the playoffs, unless changed and changed in a big way. We can't trade garbage for good players: it is going to be some 'big' players moving. Kovalev, maybe Higgins?

Yes, we will make the playoffs whether we make changes (and we will) or not. Every year, when we get in a slump, people start guaranteeing other habs fans that we'll miss the playoffs... but we always make them. It's funny, because we're not even in a slump right now. We've actually been very good lately. Why should we worry any more than teams like Tampa, the Leafs, Pittsburgh, etc? We have position in the standings on them and we're doing fine. If we were in a slump I would atleast be worried.

Why trade Higgins and Kovalev? What's the point of bringing in stars at the deadline if we're dealing away all our current stars to get them. For example, if we trade Kovalev for a good offensive #2 center we wind up very deep at C like we've always wanted.... but then we'd need a top 2 RW! The whole point of getting a good center is so that he can play with Kovalev.

Since no one's answered your non-sarcastic question, I will. I think we it's unfair to say that we've made no changes whatsoever. Carbonneau eventually caught on and split up Samsonov and Kovalev, lines have been juggled a lot, Streit has become a permanent forward, Lapierre is back up and Perezhogin was a healthy scratch for a few games. Heck, it looks like Aebischer may be able to steal the starters job from Huet. That being said, I think Gainey will make a trade for an offensive player I'd say a center but I don't know who's spot he'd take and which of our current centers I'd want gone.

@initial post: I thought Perezhogin and Samsonov played pretty well.

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I think that Samsonov is starting to get the hang of it, he played well the two last games, if he continues that way, we might not have to trade him.... The problem in the moment is the 1st and 2nd line... Latendresse and Kovalev worked for a game, but doesn't seem to work anymore, I would put Latrendresse with Lapierre, both of them have almost the same style of play, except for small details.

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We're in a slump. At least our 3-4 lines are not in it. Hopefully we will come out of it soon. Stop all being Chicken Littles and thinking the sky is falling.

Our needs haven't changed. Secondline center, and a offensive D man. Slump or no slump.

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We are getting close I figure to a 1 & 2 shakeup. Higgins is not doing it, but he's working hard. Koivu seems invisible right now and Ryder needs better skate sharpening to deal with defenders in the corner :angry:

Kovalev should go with Koivu and maybe Latendresse? Ryder can play with Pleks and Higgins. Or trade up Latendresse and Higgins but do SOMETHING!

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Ryder can't hold a first line position, and they won't trade Latendresse, he's one of the only Quebecer player in the team and they know they will lose a lot of respect from the fans, he is still a rookie we won't get a lot from him, same with Higgins, he hasn't been doing much lately so we might not get a good trade for him... I think that they should trade Ryder, he isn't such a great player, but his stats can get them a good deal, Souray too, one of the poorest defenseman on the team, we can get a very good trade for him, all what Souray is, is a powerplay scorer, we can work without that.

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Ryder can't hold a first line position, and they won't trade Latendresse, he's one of the only Quebecer player in the team and they know they will lose a lot of respect from the fans, he is still a rookie we won't get a lot from him, same with Higgins, he hasn't been doing much lately so we might not get a good trade for him... I think that they should trade Ryder, he isn't such a great player, but his stats can get them a good deal, Souray too, one of the poorest defenseman on the team, we can get a very good trade for him, all what Souray is, is a powerplay scorer, we can work without that.

Red : agree

Blue : can't more disagree 3rd best D after Markov and Komi... Don't say a word about Bouillon, this season he sucks, Dandenault ever sucked and Rivet is finished. Actually, Streit would be #2 this season but Carbo keep let him play on the 4rth, giving us the opportunity to see how Dandenault and Bouillon strugle on defense.

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We are getting close I figure to a 1 & 2 shakeup. Higgins is not doing it, but he's working hard. Koivu seems invisible right now and Ryder needs better skate sharpening to deal with defenders in the corner :angry:

.......I agree there's definitely something wrong with Higgins.....I was watching him closely during this afternoon's game, and he seems to be having trouble turning (I think) to his right......Not using it as an excuse, but I don't think he's at 100%..............As far as trades go, I'd like to see another big body up front (like Trent Hunter from the Isles)....we need to be much more effective at cycling in the offensive zone....teams do it to us on a consistent basis..........our D and forwards start running around, get tired, and then we get scored on....this I think is the main reason why we're so weak 5-on-5.........in the playoffs (and I'm going to assume here that we'll make them), refs tend not to call as many penalties; we'll need to get goals by earning them.

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I think we absolutely need a top line of Koivu, Kovalev and Latendresse. Hopefully, Lats' energy and enthusiasm, and Koivu's normal work ethic, will rub off on kovy. Plus, with those two Kovy can play more of 'his' game: cruising, hitting open skaters with precision passes, slowing things down & allowing d-men to jump in, sliding into open spaces on the weak/blind sides of opponents' defensive set-ups. He needs to be pandered to a bit, that's just how he is, so let's give him the extended time he needs on the top line, some studs to play with. Latendresse can just bang, bang, bang and drive hell-for-leather to the net all night. He seems a pretty good passer as well, maybe having two players who are constantly shifting and moving around would help him even more. Koivu has to get something back. Maybe this will not only take some pressure off of being the only playmaker on a line, but also will open up the ice a little more, seeing as teams just can't let Kovy float unchecked and will be forced to pay attention to Latendresse parked in front. Koivu is also responsible enough to backcheck/move to the top if a denfeseman rushes in. Plus, with Koivu and Latendresse back, Kovy won't need to be Carbonneau every time the opponents bring the puck at us. I think this combo should be given a bit of a run, 7 to 10 games, to get things going. It also would have a solidifying effect on the team.

Higgins can go to the second line and get his regular shift, increase his ice time, get healthy if he is in need of it. Who plays with him, I don't know. For sure Pleckanec.

Presuming none of the above get traded, of course.

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We're in a slump. At least our 3-4 lines are not in it. Hopefully we will come out of it soon. Stop all being Chicken Littles and thinking the sky is falling.

Our needs haven't changed. Secondline center, and a offensive D man. Slump or no slump.

Agreed!

Lets not loose all sense of where we are... still in the battle for 4th or 5th place; With all the trouble we have had the luck and ghost of years past have kept us in the race; This has given Gainey loads of time to make his moves. And lets not fool ourselves. The new NhL has given parity to most teams that everyone is waiting till the last moment to be buyers or sellers.

As long as we are holding position and others aren't turning into sellers we will not be able to buy or trade.. value for value not just on skill but in finances... don't forget the CAP!

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

In BOB I trust everyone else just sucks!

Keep the faith; trust those in place to make the right moves and please, please, please above all others...

Support your team!

GO HABS GO!

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Red : agree

Blue : can't more disagree 3rd best D after Markov and Komi... Don't say a word about Bouillon, this season he sucks, Dandenault ever sucked and Rivet is finished. Actually, Streit would be #2 this season but Carbo keep let him play on the 4rth, giving us the opportunity to see how Dandenault and Bouillon strugle on defense.

Persnally, I'm a fan of Dandenault. One of the hardest wrking players on the team, especially in the clutch. It's nice to have leaders like him around sometimes.

I agree with whoever proposed a Latendresse-Koivu-Kovalev line. I think it could work. That would leave us with Higgins-Plekanec-Ryder.

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I don't know what to do with Kovalev, other than pray that the problem is a correctable issue with his knee rather than a permanent transition into complete mediocrity.

What we need is less a shakeup of the 'core' - although a guy like Ryder could be moved without fundamental damage to the nucleus - than a chemistry adjustment. Get a new regular player in, who could add a new dynamic to the team, shift the culture a bit, etc.. Ryder, Perezhogin, Dandenault...a player of that nature could be moved successfully and without radically altering the present or future of the club IMHO, just tweaking it.

And Samsonov, at least, is finally coming to life. Lose the bitterness and enjoy the speedy, exciting player that gave us fits in Boston all those years :hockey:

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