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The Chicoutimi Cucumber

Now here's a revealing article

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http://www.cyberpresse.ca/article/20070216...1006/CPSPORTS01

Basically (or so he claims) Gagnon takes us inside the dressing room of this team. I don't know how credible Gagnon is, but if he IS then this might be the most interesting piece written on the team all season.

Apparently, there is no big rift or rebellion against the coach - more of a 'frozen' culture...a kind of uneasy passivity in the room, as on the ice.

Apparently, players have been tiptoeing around Kovalev for much of the year, aware that he's sleepwalking, but also aware of what he can do for the team if focused.

Apparently, Kovalev smashed his stick in the dressing room after being benched and Souray told him that he deserved what he got - and other players agreed. Hence the closed players' meeting. (Gagnon implies but doesn't overtly state the widespread theory that Kovy is basically taking a hiatus from the team under the guise of his injury, as a direct result of this confrontation).

Apparently, the Rivet benching was a HUGE blow to the club. Most players privately said that Kovy was the one who should have been benched. Gagnon argues that Koivu's tailspin directly relates to this and writes of an obvious lack of communication between players and coach.

And apparently, Carbonneau was extremely worried all through the first half of the season, believing that the team was stealing wins and that the fundamentals were unsound. This, at least, suggests that he knows what he's doing.

The overall picture is of a team that has become rudely aware of its weaknesses, is internally ruderless - demotivated by the coach and bemused by Kovalev's failure to step up, his 'contagious nonchalance' - and looking around and seeing ice time going to Ninimaa and Murray and waiting for some sort of help.

Edited by The Chicoutimi Cucumber

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IF this is true:

1. Koivu is not the leader people make him out to be. A real leader would not have let this go all season and say nothing. Also, just because Rivet is his buddy doesn't mean he can go pout about it.

2. Rivet deserved everything he got. He was absolutely horrid for about a month leading up to the benching.

3. Carbo scared of Kovalev? Then he is not a very good coach, at least not yet.

4. Where the hell is Gainey in all this? If they are afraid of Kovalev, why was Kovalev not called to the GMs office.

5. For all the talk of Theo/Ribs/Dags being cancers, I am starting to wonder if this is more about the Koivu/Rivet cancer. It sure sounds to me like our mighty captain is more about his click then bringing the team together. It is his job to bring everyone together, not just his buddy Rivet, etc.

I also find it interesting that Sammy, Kovalev, and to an extent Markov have not been that great this year. Perhaps they don't feel they are full members of this team...

all speculation, but there is something wrong with this team and more and more, I question Koivu and his buddies. Add the rumors of Gainey "changing the core" and perhaps we are about to see some significant changes to the team. I won't be surprised if it is Koivu and Rivet that Gainey wants to dump....

Time to put on my flame proof suit..... :(

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We have no player that would mean more to a Cup contender than Koivu. He would be a brilliant deadline acquisition for any serious club. And Saks would surely waive the no-trade clause if it meant going to a winner. I love Koivu, but we should seriously *consider* leveraging him into a major deal - e.g., a trade with detroit for Datsyuk, something on that order. But I don't see this as addition by subtraction. It would be trading the core to upgrade the club, period, just like trading Corson for Damphousse back in 1992.

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Getting rid of Koivu is a huge mistake, do that and we will have zero leadership next season. Souray will be gone and all that will be left will be Begin. I don't see where in that arcticle Koivu is receiving blame. What is Koivu going to say? Kovalev is supposed to be the leading scorer, coaches have trouble with him Koivu isn't exactly the "get in your face" type, Kovalev says he is injured.... there are many reason it would be difficult to do something about kovalev.

If coaches who are trained to get players to comply can't deal with this guy how is Koivu supposed to? Kovalev is the biggest cancer this year, deal him to a playoff team looking for this elusive boost he supposedly brings. Rivet can be put on waivers and we will be rid of him.

Carbo is a rookie, he would have a tough time dealing with the god also known as kovalev. Without Huet this year is a scratch anyways, now lets make some key moves and get ready for next season.

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Are you guys nuts?

If you believe Kovalev is a cancer (which may or may not be true), you don't trade the rest of the team and keep him.

You trade him and keep the rest of the team.

Duh.

5. For all the talk of Theo/Ribs/Dags being cancers, I am starting to wonder if this is more about the Koivu/Rivet cancer. It sure sounds to me like our mighty captain is more about his click then bringing the team together. It is his job to bring everyone together, not just his buddy Rivet, etc.

Uh, let me help you out here. To have a clique you need to have more than just two individuals. Just because he and Rivet are friends does not mean that he has formed a clique. :rolleyes:

Judging from your post you'd want Dagenais, Ribiero and Theodore back. I love how some people just lose all rationality in a crisis.

Yes, the team's in a freefall and they can't play 5 on 5. But is it all that surprising if you look at the roster? No, I really don't think so. A goaltender not used to a large workload, another who has the knack for giving up floaters. A defense that is mediocre for the majority of the year. A sputtering offense that is led in scoring by a defenseman, with no viable offensive centre except Koivu (who we all know isn't the best), and no consistent goal scoring threat. Is it no wonder we're 10th?

Edited by smon

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Thanks for the link, CC. Very insightful.

I guess to some degree it shows that Carbonneau knows what's going on, with regard to being worried about previous wins. Unfortunately and more importantly, it reveals his poor communication to key players on the team has alienated them. They don't know what is expected or what they're doing wrong, and have quite possibly stopped caring due to the lack of direction.

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Hmn, some other thoughts. I read a Gazette article where Kovalev insisted he didn't fake the injury, but that he wasnt able to practice the day after their players only meeting.

From this, we can conclude that what occured is that someone (and I bet it would be Sheldon Souray) called out Kovalev for his giveaway. Kovalev obviously was upset, but he was more upset since apparently other members of the team echoed Souray's sentiments and likely said he's been having a rough year.

At this point Kovalev decided (quite wisely, too), that the team needs him at full strength, not on a wonky knee and unable to contribute effectively. He said as much: "''I figured I'm not helping the team much with the injury I have and it's better to let somebody else healthy play for me. "

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Are you guys nuts?

If you believe Kovalev is a cancer (which may or may not be true), you don't trade the rest of the team and keep him.

You trade him and keep the rest of the team.

Duh.

Uh, let me help you out here. To have a clique you need to have more than just two individuals. Just because he and Rivet are friends does not mean that he has formed a clique. :rolleyes:

Judging from your post you'd want Dagenais, Ribiero and Theodore back. I love how some people just lose all rationality in a crisis.

Yes, the team's in a freefall and they can't play 5 on 5. But is it all that surprising if you look at the roster? No, I really don't think so. A goaltender not used to a large workload, another who has the knack for giving up floaters. A defense that is mediocre for the majority of the year. A sputtering offense that is led in scoring by a defenseman, with no viable offensive centre except Koivu (who we all know isn't the best), and no consistent goal scoring threat. Is it no wonder we're 10th?

I never said bring back Ribs, etc. My point is that their may be many clicks in the locker room and getting rid of them has not solved the problem. If Koivu is going to tank it over Rivet, then that is not a leader and indicates that there is still a clique in the room. Everyone seemed to assume last year that the problem was Theo and Ribs. I am suggesting that they were only one of the problems. Seems to me, we have the same problem again this year with a dysfunctional locker room.

The leaders job is to get everyone on the same page. That speaks to Koivu and Carbo. Do you honestly think that Messier would put up with any of that crap in the room? I think there are two possibilities. 1. Koivu is part of the problem, with is own group of buddies. 2. Koivu is not the problem, but doesn't have the leadership to fix the problem either.

In any case, this team has had issues on it for years and it is time to look at the core group of "leaders".

That goes for Koivu, Kovalev, Souray, Rivet, etc...

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Yeah, glad you don't want said individuals back...

But I'm not convinced that the problem lies in the room.

It's got more to do with the fact that there really aren't forwards who can consistently score. The team's current scoring forwards can be talents sure (see Kovalev, Samsonov, Koivu, Ryder etc) but in their careers none of them have really scored consistently or carried a team offensively.

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I never said bring back Ribs, etc. My point is that their may be many clicks in the locker room and getting rid of them has not solved the problem. If Koivu is going to tank it over Rivet, then that is not a leader and indicates that there is still a clique in the room. Everyone seemed to assume last year that the problem was Theo and Ribs. I am suggesting that they were only one of the problems. Seems to me, we have the same problem again this year with a dysfunctional locker room.

The leaders job is to get everyone on the same page. That speaks to Koivu and Carbo. Do you honestly think that Messier would put up with any of that crap in the room? I think there are two possibilities. 1. Koivu is part of the problem, with is own group of buddies. 2. Koivu is not the problem, but doesn't have the leadership to fix the problem either.

In any case, this team has had issues on it for years and it is time to look at the core group of "leaders".

That goes for Koivu, Kovalev, Souray, Rivet, etc...

I am gonna keep saying this until it happens....

Dumping Kovalev is the biggest step to healing.

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Well, my point is not that Koivu's a bad leader, etc., etc.. My point is that it may be time to start thinking in terms of refashioning The Core. Once you accept THAT, then moving Koivu becomes very thinkable - in fact, fairly sensible, since he could really get value back.

For instance, if we could move Souray and Koivu and get (say) Datsyuk, Kronwall (sp?) and maybe some other player or good prospect, would that be self-evidently stupid? Not to me. We'd get a 28 year old bona fide #1 centre, for one thing.

And none of that precludes moving Kovalev, too.

Rumour is that Bob is indeed targeting the core, so get ready for the possibility of major surgery.

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Okay, but what makes you think Datsyuk will re-sign here if he won't with Detroit?

Unless we give him 7 million a year, which he frankly does not deserve and will never live up to the expectations of.

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Let's get Theodore back. He'll be converted to a 4th line winger like everyone else.

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http://www.cyberpresse.ca/article/20070216...1006/CPSPORTS01

Basically (or so he claims) Gagnon takes us inside the dressing room of this team. I don't know how credible Gagnon is, but if he IS then this might be the most interesting piece written on the team all season.

Apparently, there is no big rift or rebellion against the coach - more of a 'frozen' culture...a kind of uneasy passivity in the room, as on the ice.

Apparently, players have been tiptoeing around Kovalev for much of the year, aware that he's sleepwalking, but also aware of what he can do for the team if focused.

Apparently, Kovalev smashed his stick in the dressing room after being benched and Souray told him that he deserved what he got - and other players agreed. Hence the closed players' meeting. (Gagnon implies but doesn't overtly state the widespread theory that Kovy is basically taking a hiatus from the team under the guise of his injury, as a direct result of this confrontation).

Apparently, the Rivet benching was a HUGE blow to the club. Most players privately said that Kovy was the one who should have been benched. Gagnon argues that Koivu's tailspin directly relates to this and writes of an obvious lack of communication between players and coach.

And apparently, Carbonneau was extremely worried all through the first half of the season, believing that the team was stealing wins and that the fundamentals were unsound. This, at least, suggests that he knows what he's doing.

The overall picture is of a team that has become rudely aware of its weaknesses, is internally ruderless - demotivated by the coach and bemused by Kovalev's failure to step up, his 'contagious nonchalance' - and looking around and seeing ice time going to Ninimaa and Murray and waiting for some sort of help.

This shit happens all the time, you just don't hear about it. I doubt some of this (but not all). If anyone would call out Kovy, it would be Souray (remember he bitched him out to the press during the bruins series a few years back after the slash).

All in all, though, this team isnt playing poorly because of the lousy sentiment in the room, the sentiment in the room is lousy because they're playing poorly. just not enough scoring horses on this team. smiles and good feelings aren't going to cure that.

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Let's get Theodore back. He'll be converted to a 4th line winger like everyone else.

4th line winger.. he will probably be on the top line..... :lol:

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Yeah, glad you don't want said individuals back...

But I'm not convinced that the problem lies in the room.

It's got more to do with the fact that there really aren't forwards who can consistently score. The team's current scoring forwards can be talents sure (see Kovalev, Samsonov, Koivu, Ryder etc) but in their careers none of them have really scored consistently or carried a team offensively.

I nominate you for assistant G.M. :clap::clap::clap:

This is exactly the problem that has become more evident over time. Was it not Boom Boom that told his grandson "Shoot the Puck, Score the Goal"? Montreal needs shooters and guys that go to the net.

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Francis Gagnon is as reliable as my aunt!

The guy is always taking every opportunity in the world to bash Kovalev, write articles about Kovalev this Kovalev that.

If it was a closed meeting then how the ###### would Gagnon know all thsi stuff?

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Francis Gagnon is as reliable as my aunt!

The guy is always taking every opportunity in the world to bash Kovalev, write articles about Kovalev this Kovalev that.

If it was a closed meeting then how the ###### would Gagnon know all thsi stuff?

Like you don't always bash the same team/player/coach

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Francis Gagnon is as reliable as my aunt!

The guy is always taking every opportunity in the world to bash Kovalev, write articles about Kovalev this Kovalev that.

If it was a closed meeting then how the ###### would Gagnon know all thsi stuff?

Agreed pure speculation@@!!!! and stirs the shite so he gets a pay check! at the end of the month

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I am gonna keep saying this until it happens....

Dumping Kovalev is the biggest step to healing.

I Like Kovalev or I should say I like the idea of what Kovalev can do for this team. I think he should stay. If all goes well through this transition and Gainey plays his cards right our HABS can become a really great team. Scary great team. Everyones got to be feeling it.

CARBO will turn this into GOOD.

With that said. Kovalev is going into the sunset of his career. He's not the man he used to be. He has to reach deep into his soul to bring the fire back. I think he will and he will thank Carbo and his teamates later.

My first realization of a problem child was when in last years funk and slump he told off Julien. Under his breath saying 'You fix the problem your the coach, tell us how to win " not his exact words ...but Julien was fired shortly after and Kovalev's child like behaviour was rewarded. It won't happen again and hopefully with Carbo at the helm Kovalev will finally grow up. He needs to get over himself and his stubborn ways.

Koivu is fine. He tried I'm sure, but did it privatley. Souray called him out infront of everyone and that crushed the ego. I hope he gets stronger from this. He's a stubborn Russian. It won't be easy.

Give the C to Souray?.....No. It's a team, a family and bonding is happening right now. Everyone is trying to get the best out of each other right now and will figure it out.

Gainey and Carbo know that. Trading and rebuiling is not an option. A cup for the 100th aniversary is the goal. You get that from within, Gainey will make sure of that.

What ? just because Nashville got Forsberg means cup?

Sorry......they will be knocked out 1st or second round!!!!!!

I love our HABS and Koivu will be Captain when we win the cup. Picture them passing it around. Koivu ....to Souray.....to Rivet then to Kovalev.....

Man I get chills ....and I like our CORE.

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I am gonna keep saying this until it happens....

Dumping Kovalev is the biggest step to healing.

Dump Kovalev for someone BETTER. If not leave him alone.

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As much calling out and praise for Souray, i'm not really sure why, PP he is a stud. Everywhere else he is a dud. Minus 13, nice effort. Instead of calling everyoner else out maybe Souray should work on his own game.

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As much calling out and praise for Souray, i'm not really sure why, PP he is a stud. Everywhere else he is a dud. Minus 13, nice effort. Instead of calling everyoner else out maybe Souray should work on his own game.

Especially since without Kovalev he's nothing on the pp.

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