Cataclaw Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 (edited) Surprised no thread like this existed yet... At the time of this post, just 5 days left until the election! Discuss, debate, have fun Edited March 22, 2007 by Cataclaw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre the Great Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 I'm an Equal opportunity person here so....... Québec Solidaire Françoise David Parti vert du Québec Scott McKay Bloc Pot Hugô St-Onge Parti marxiste-léniniste du Québec Claude Brunelle (can't find a pic) Parti démocratie chrétienne du Québec Gilles Noël (can't find pic) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mont Royale Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 Parti démocratie chrétienne du Québec Gilles Noël (can't find pic) Chretien has his own party in Quebec? I didn't realize he was that popular! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 I'm not particularly excited about it but I'm gonna vote liberal I share the values of the ADQ but some of their propositions dont make sense and their fiscal plan have too many shadowy areas. It's surprising to me when I hear than most people think Dumont won the debate because he was unable to explain how he plan to put his program into application. I think the risk of voting ADQ isnt worth it . Changing for the sake of change = no thanks The PQ I just cant stand anymore. We just got $2.3B from the federal and the PQ still aint happy? Ungrateful is the most poite thing I can say about them. They are frustrated because they lost their 2 main arguments a) Québec is now recognised as a nation and B) the fiscal imbalance is over That leaves the liberal status quo. Charest didnt revolutionised the province but he didnt screwed it up either. Even tough I would ideally prefer Québec to be more to the right the status quo is perfectly fine with me when I consder the other options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athlétique.Canadien Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 I want the Liberals to win. I am a Federalist and in 1995 when Dumont was standing side by side with Landry, Parizeau and Bouchard and company. Since my trust has been diminished I must by default go with the PLQ. That's not to say that I think Dumont is a sovereignist. I don't believe he is but...too late Mario, too late Not that any of this matters. I have no say in "Mon Cher Quebec's" fortunes. The only thing I care about is that the voters indirectly reward Charest for Harpers' handout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cataclaw Posted March 22, 2007 Author Share Posted March 22, 2007 Same here... Liberals all the way, if only to prevent one of the two separatist parties (3 if we include QS) from gaining power. Plus Charest didn't do so bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 Sorry guys but for me it's the PQ all the way. Can't stand a country who vote for Harper. The Canada doesn't represent my personal values and those of a big part of my province. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cataclaw Posted March 22, 2007 Author Share Posted March 22, 2007 Sorry guys but for me it's the PQ all the way. Can't stand a country who vote for Harper. The Canada doesn't represent my personal values and those of a big part of my province. You can't stand a country who voted for Harper, when in effect a large number of Quebecers, also part of that country, voted for him too? Wtf. If you don't like Harper, our fellow Quebecers are just as "guilty" for electing him as the rest of Canada. Perhaps the "value divide" isn't so great as some make it out to be. Perhaps the "value divide" is a strength rather than a weakness.. oh well, just an opinion. Plus que quatre jours.. ça va être une soirée à ne pas manquer.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre the Great Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 Thankfully I don't live in Quebec because if I did, I wouldn't know who to vote for. I saw the debates, wasn't impressed with any of the three. I'm going to go with liberal minority with the adq as main opposition which means that the liberals and the pq will have to work together. lol who would have thought of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cataclaw Posted March 22, 2007 Author Share Posted March 22, 2007 What surprises me is an extremely left-leaning province is being drawn to a right-wing party (ADQ). I have a feeling the ADQ's support has been overestimated these past few weeks and the election will reflect that. It'll come down to PQ vs PLQ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 (edited) You can't stand a country who voted for Harper, when in effect a large number of Quebecers, also part of that country, voted for him too? Wtf. If you don't like Harper, our fellow Quebecers are just as "guilty" for electing him as the rest of Canada. Perhaps the "value divide" isn't so great as some make it out to be. Perhaps the "value divide" is a strength rather than a weakness.. oh well, just an opinion. Plus que quatre jours.. ça va être une soirée à ne pas manquer.. I also feel sorry for all those in Québec who voted for Harper... In fact, they voted PC because they can't stand the Liberaux neither... that's what make me sick. PC doesn't represent my values, and PLC is corrupted ! Basicly, all i like about Canada is his Olympic Team. lol And yeah I hope nobody works monday evening. My friends and I will make up a little "fantasy pool" for the elections. It's gonna be fun. Edited March 22, 2007 by JoeLassister Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athlétique.Canadien Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 Sorry guys Sorry? For what? Having your own opinion which is your right? Don't be sorry. Be proud. We might disagree but if we don't like your opinion - it's our problem, not yours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre the Great Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 I think the ADQ's rise has nothing to do with the province turning right, its more of rural Quebec moving away from the PQ in the Quebec City region because the PQ has morphed itself into a 'montreal party'. Basically its like what happened down here in the '06 elections. A lot of places that are traditionally republican went democrat, mainly at sheer frustration at how lost the republicans were and still are. (it will most likely continue in '08) So I don't think its Quebec turning right as much as people are tired of the established parties and the rural Quebec areas see the PQ as becoming Montreal centric. Sort of like the NDP in the prairies. They're losing the prairies there traditional stronghold because a farmer in Saskatchewan feels that his local NDP MP represents urban Vancouver or urban Toronto then Moose Jaw. This happens to every party. It'll happen to the Tories on their march to be come Progressive Conservatives again. They'll upset the reform/alliance base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre the Great Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 I also feel sorry for all those in Québec who voted for Harper... In fact, they voted PC because they can't stand the Liberaux neither... that's what make me sick. PC doesn't represent my values, and PLC is corrupted ! Basicly, all i like about Canada is his Olympic Team. lol And yeah I hope nobody works monday evening. My friends and I will make up a little "fantasy pool" for the elections. It's gonna be fun. Well I'm kinda glad that Quebec voted for the Tories (yes me glad! shocker!) because a Quebec Conservative is a old Progressive Conservative. The more PCers invade the party that was taken over by Alliance/Reformers the better for Canada. Canada needs a viable right of centre party that is electable and not fire branding rightists with firewall speeches and conquest ideals. Its good for Canadian democracy that the Tories won seats in Quebec. It will be good for Canadian democracy when the Green party wins seats and someday the NDP might even when a few seats in Quebec. That's democracy in action and its better then what we have here were too old in the tooth parties rule everything and everyone hates the two parties. Two party political system does not work. Man would I love to vote for the Green Party here, but they can't even get on the ballot or have tv or Radio ads. I'd love to see the Libertarian Party actually do well. But hey at least I can dream, even though its never going to happen in my life time. I'd love to see a social-democratic party federally here, lol that's never going to happen. Be thankful you get to live in an actual democracy where you can vote for a party of your ideals and not stuck with the lesser of two evils like I have to deal with here, ever 2 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 Sorry? For what? Having your own opinion which is your right? Don't be sorry. Be proud. We might disagree but if we don't like your opinion - it's our problem, not yours I said sorry because i was the first one to post in favor of the PQ. Don't worry, I'm proud, i'm a member of the PQ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre the Great Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 I said sorry because i was the first one to post in favor of the PQ. Don't worry, I'm proud, i'm a member of the PQ... Doesn't bother me, even though I'd be a federalist. I'm a progressive-democratic socialist-social democrat-liberal-environmentalist-greenie-libertarian left-anti-globalization-fair trader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Harry Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 I think the ADQ's rise has nothing to do with the province turning right, its more of rural Quebec moving away from the PQ in the Quebec City region because the PQ has morphed itself into a 'montreal party'. Quebec is becoming more economically right. Quebec is just going through what most of the country already went through 10-20 years ago: Growing up from the ######ed statist ideas of the 70s and 80s. Even former PQ leader Lucien Bouchard has spoken up publicly about this need. We are the most overtaxed, unionised and statist region in north america, and people are starting to realize it isn't doing anything for them. Unless you are one of the lucky garbagemen and SAQ clerks who are making 30$ an hour and guaranteed a fat government pension while everyone who works in the real world makes less and saves for their own pension. Charest was given the mandate to reform a lot more 4 years ago, but backed down when faced with heavy opposition from the unions. I know Pierre you will disagree, but as a non-resident of Quebec, I don't think you quite understand how criminal (often literally, not just morally) the behaviour of our unions and public employees can be. The recognition of this is pretty widespread, many of our newspapers have done expose's on their activities, but they are very heavily institutionally entrenched so it is a difficult process to scale them back. Anyways, I hope for a Liberal-ADQ coalition. The rot will set in if the liberals get another majority term (as is the case for just about any govt given a decade+ of majority rule), but an infusion of ADQ blood and would help keep them honest and keep them energized along the path of desperatly needed reform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blaze53 Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 Liberals all the way baby! I dont think there are any other logical options than them eh? lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 What surprises me is an extremely left-leaning province is being drawn to a right-wing party (ADQ). I have a feeling the ADQ's support has been overestimated these past few weeks and the election will reflect that. It'll come down to PQ vs PLQ. AH! ADQ is center-right. There's no real right-wing in Quebec. PLQ is center-left and PQ is left-center. The ADQ isnt overestimated at all. Its the most solide vote (% of electors who says there's not chances they'll change their mind) of all parties. Dumont is surprisingly untouchable in this campain. Lot of things could really have hurt him, but he's in a zone. That's because a lot of people are underestimating the ADQ's support, thinking it's just an epiphenom (rural vote, protestation vote, etc). Too few realized that a big portion of the middle class feels completely ignored by either the PQ (taxing the middle class too much) and the PLQ (not giving the middle class the relief it needs). That's the same middle class who works in the private at lower salaries than in the public sector, and yet carry the burden of paying through taxes all the salaries and programs of the province. On top of that fed-up middle class, you've got a fed-up youth (25-35 years old) who are the most learnt generation in Quebec history, yet is also the relatively poorest in recent history. Those young adults can't get a house, can hardly start a family, have trouble paying their car insurances because they get shitty jobs at shitty salaries and get little services from the State. So its more than just rural folks and protestation. Its all those left behind who are putting their collective foot down to say they've had enough. Its just a wake up call for the State profiteers who never ever had an after-thought for the hard-working who had to pay for the institutionnalized pan-handling encouraged by the PQ and PLQ. Oh, one more thing... One of the reason people are surprised by the ADQ's rise is because they still view the Quebec political debate as a Sovereignty-Federalism axis. The rise of the ADQ is, more than a rise of the right, a break from that Sovereignty-Federalism polarity. Lots of folks dont care about that constitutional Cold War anymore and want to vote for other reasons. I also feel sorry for all those in Québec who voted for Harper... I'm one of those, and it was a goddamn good strategic vote. We punished the PLC, stayed away from the inefficient BQ and now we're basically holding the Government by the balls. We're were the proverbial swing vote and we cashed in big time. We gave Harper his majority and he knows if he loses us he basically loses his government because the PC hasn't made much gains anywhere else in the country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cataclaw Posted March 23, 2007 Author Share Posted March 23, 2007 But KoZed... Dumont was laughably pathetic during the debate Then again, what do i know, some people believe he actually did *good* during the debate. I voted for Harper myself and for the same reason as KoZed. Next time around remains to be seen, but i'm quite happy with my Harper vote. I don't think i'm any less of a Quebecer for choosing him (tabarnaque, eh?). I just feel the ADQ is a mediocre party with some pretty laughable/questionable policies. This is perhaps a very presumptious and arrogant comment i'm about to make, but damnit, it's my opinion : I think the ADQ is a party of superficial promises and appeal, targeted towards the rural population and people of lower education. Example: Their "ditch the school boards" plan is very "nice" on the surface. "Oh, less bureaucracy, very good. Let's vote ADQ!" while proper analysis of the repercussions reveals the truth: You cut bureaucracy, but who's going to do the work? The cities? As if they don't have their hands full already. Rich cities will afford to maintain infrastructure and end up with rich schools and perhaps a greater overall education level, poor cities will get the opposite. Way to increase the wealth divide, Mario! I have more arguments against this silly cut-the-school-boards plan, but i think you guys see what i'm trying to get at here. And their policy on separation is very wishy-washy at best, again, designed to appeal to everyone while lacking an actual plan and substance. Anyway. ADQ is a lot of smoke and mirrors. The PQ is separatist. That leaves PLQ as the only viable option once again... /my 2¢ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 I'm one of those, and it was a goddamn good strategic vote. We punished the PLC, stayed away from the inefficient BQ and now we're basically holding the Government by the balls. We're were the proverbial swing vote and we cashed in big time. We gave Harper his majority and he knows if he loses us he basically loses his government because the PC hasn't made much gains anywhere else in the country. I think you don't understand what the BQ is doing. Without the BQ, Ottawa would never had reconize the Québec as a nation, the Québec would not be allowed to have a place at UNESCO. the BQ is very usefull for the province in Ottawa ant that's why Gilles Duceppe isn't the leader of the PQ. The BQ is always the group who will determinate if a law or a propositon will be accepeted or rejected, and this is good for the Québec. the Bloc is the only party to represent a province. This is our history here in Québec, to get a party who represents OUR values, OUR demands, who will protect OUR decisions by having a kind of power on decision. Why do you think federalists dont want to see us become a country ? The only reasons why the Canada dont want to loose the Québec are the economy and the amount of seats at the parliament voted in Québec. They know the BQ will get the most of the seats and the rest will be a battle who might decides who will become the next government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre the Great Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 The Quebec economy is in shambles (your a have not remember). I don't see Quebec's economy as a strong point at the moment. I guarantee the BQ will not get as many seats as the Tories and Liberals combined this year in the next election. The more referendums you have the more you plunge your economy into total disaster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 (edited) I think the ADQ is a party of superficial promises and appeal, targeted towards the rural population and people of lower education. Example: Their "ditch the school boards" plan is very "nice" on the surface. "Oh, less bureaucracy, very good. Let's vote ADQ!" while proper analysis of the repercussions reveals the truth: You cut bureaucracy, but who's going to do the work? The cities? As if they don't have their hands full already. Rich cities will afford to maintain infrastructure and end up with rich schools and perhaps a greater overall education level, poor cities will get the opposite. Way to increase the wealth divide, Mario! I have more arguments against this silly cut-the-school-boards plan, but i think you guys see what i'm trying to get at here. And their policy on separation is very wishy-washy at best, again, designed to appeal to everyone while lacking an actual plan and substance. I've studied and been involved enough with the "Bureaucracy" here in the capital to know that ditching the school boards is the tip of the iceberg of all the things that should be cut; things for which we pay for yet it's never enough. The Quebec Bureaucracy is one of the worst self-duplicating monster there is. Agencies, comitees, bureaus, etc. They're the icebergs, the thousands of little tax-money-sucking-minions below the surface. You take each one and they dont seem expensive. But when you start adding their exagerated number; you see where your taxe money is going: sprinkled over all these groups that never really achieve much improvement.I had a catalogue of them and it comes in 2 fully stacked 2 inches binders. All that for just 7 million people? Bureaucracies are like any organism: meant to perpetuate itself. So you've got loads of State organizations who are virtually useless or dupes; yet still goes on. The Comissions Scolaires are one example of those heavy, expensive superstructure who divert money going straight to the schools and students. There's already a Ministere de l'Education full of well-paid pedagogues who have nothing better to do than craft screwed up serial reforms. Edited March 23, 2007 by KoZed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cataclaw Posted March 23, 2007 Author Share Posted March 23, 2007 KoZed: I agree with the overall theme of a reduced bureaucracy, no question there. Would i be in favor of reducing the school boards' budget and personnel? Absolutely. Besides, it's clear there's a severe mismanagement going on with their budget (when high-level employees permit themselves extravagant trips, suppers in fine restaurants and other lavish expenditures, you know something's wrong...) ...but to cut the entire thing seems outrageous. Why must everything be "all or nothing" in this province? Go for a 25% cut immediately, and consider another 25% cut over the next 5 years. Come back in 5 years and see what the situation looks like. With things like this, we need to proceed gradually and cautiously, not impulsively the way Dumont is suggesting. Anyway. If you wish to debate this further, i'm all fired up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athlétique.Canadien Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 (edited) This is why I think the Rhino's should run in Quebec. Dealing with acid rain by droping 10 ton TUMS in lakes and rivers is a great idea. Also, amending the NAFTA deal so that we can trade climates with the U.S. is good too. How to fix the fiscal imbalance you say? The Rhino's simply balance a loonie on their nose and walk around. VOTE RHINO OTHER IDEAS INCLUDE: -a vow to make bubble gum Canada’s new currency -higher education by building taller schools -a promise to immediately resign if, by error, any of its candidates was actually elected -a national bake sale to eliminate the National Debt -raising all streets 30 feet off the ground to prevent pedestrian fatalities -lowering the boiling point of water to save energy -creating a cartel of the world’s snow producing countries, call it “Snowpec”, and export snow to cool down the Middle East conflict -putting wheels under the West Edmonton Mall so it could tour Canada -bringing back the good old English system of driving on the left-hand side of the road, but as a phase-in buses and trucks will remain driving on the right-hand side in the first year - moving Prince Edward Island into Lake Ontario to move it closer to Central Canada. -National Defense; change our national flag to a white dove on a white background. Edited March 23, 2007 by ATHLÉTIQUE.CANADIEN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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