Habber Posted April 8, 2007 Share Posted April 8, 2007 Fire Carbo and if you don't have the balls to admit you were wrong...Go back to Dallas!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted April 8, 2007 Share Posted April 8, 2007 Carbo made some mistakes this season, many mistakes but he was a rookie. We don't blame our rookie players for their mistakes because we don't expect much of them - we must do the same with the coaches. Gainey will not fire Carbo after his first season as an NHL coach. He made a few shrewd moves anyway, he just isn't good at keeping players' confidence and morale up. ps: sign markov. If you don't my name will be pointless and I'll have to pull a bulis the habbie and call myself MAK. B) If Markov, is not re-signed, our franchise might as well fold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted April 8, 2007 Share Posted April 8, 2007 The vets gave up on Carbo. The vets costs us the season with their unprofessional, inconsistent play. Can't blame the coach for that. Carbo tried to instill his philosophy to the team and it's the vets that failed to buy in it and get the message that it what they needed to do to win. But Carbo was sitting on a stubborn mule who wouldn't bulge no matter how many time it'd get heels dug in its flanks. The cleanup was started with Rivet and Sammy, let's just hope it continues this summer with the rest of the unreliable vets. So next season Carbo can count on guys that want to play as a team and care about the team's success, not their own little ego. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorickbrown Posted April 8, 2007 Share Posted April 8, 2007 I know people love Koivu, but I had a lot of problems with his game this season: 1. Took stupid penalties at crucial points in the game 2. Kept coughing up the puck in his own zone 3. Refused to go to the net with the puck in the offensive zone. For some reason he kept skating back to the blueline rather than going to the net. 4. Couldn't be counted on to win key faceoffs This guy has never been-and never will be-a number one centre. They need to stop trying to build around this guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nesquik Posted April 8, 2007 Share Posted April 8, 2007 This guy has never been-and never will be-a number one centre. They need to stop trying to build around this guy. That is very true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted April 8, 2007 Share Posted April 8, 2007 Latendresse/Kostitsyn both on the team and both better players And the emergence of Plekanec and Lapierre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smon Posted April 8, 2007 Share Posted April 8, 2007 I was glad they kept Souray, but it was a tough call and could have gone either way. If anything, it was a minor mistake. For all we know, he was offered crap for Souray. The big Gainey mistakes this year was getting rid of Ribs for Niiny. If he wanted to dump Ribs, fine, but that was a brutal trade. His failure to get a top center for this team was also a mistake. Failing to get a goalie at the deadline to backup Abby was dumb. We got lucky that Halak played as well as he did, but I think a Belfour rental would have got us that extra point. I also think he signed Koivu to too much money. It was clear at that point that Gainey felt Koivu was our number 1 center. Koivu just had a career season at 75 points. That is not the number one center on a top team. Thats a number 2 center. Recognizing that and moving Koivu down the depth chart would be a big step forward. I don't blame Gainey for signing Sammy. Who knew. I do suspect that half the issue was Carbo. Sammy and Kovalev play a very offensive style and Carbo didn't want them to play that way. He also failed to communicate well with them, leading to bad feelings all around. Shame. In any case, imo, Gainey needs to do something brilliant this summer. He needs to sign the big player and screw some other GM in a big way. Koivu delivered more than Gainey what was expecting - what short memories some people have...I mean come on, look at the game he won singlehandedly against Boston. He was hardly the problem this year, he led the team in points and that is what the highest paid player is supposed to do, and 75 points are actually a respectable points total. Much better than last year's team high of 65. Him, Souray and Plekanec were the only ones to go above the board this year. The blame lies more on the guys who were paid to provide secondary scoring but just didn't - Samsonov and Kovalev. For all those people who orgasm when they watch a Kovalev highlight reel, watch last night's game and see what he's worth in the clutch. Nothing! Ryder, for all his flaws, at least showed up and scored a hat-trick. Chris Higgins had an on and off year as well, likewise for Latendresse. But it's unfair to blame these guys, since the responsibility should lie on the shoulders of the more experienced and gigantically more well paid forwards. In terms of the other players, Bonk and Johnson were alright, but Bonk especially is not really deserving of raises if that's what they want. Defensively, Markov was not great, but he was good and needs to be re-signed. Dandnenault and Bouillon were lost in transition this year, both of them really looked off. Streit did an admirable job. In net, Huet was good when he wasn't injured, Halak stepped up and Aebischer was a third rate backup at best. Say bye bye to Ninimaa and Aebischer, and unfortunately Souray. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cataclaw Posted April 8, 2007 Share Posted April 8, 2007 I really don't understand you people who rip on Saku. The guy is out there every night driving the zone creating scoring chances. He gets 3 - 4 assists in a night and everyone overlooks him and says "well he didn't get any goals" You have to pay closer attention. Kovalev is the biggest waste of skin on the team, all season he slacked off and everyone kept that damn "he will show up for playoffs" mantra going WELL GUESS WHAT? He didn't! I agree. Koivu just had a record season and people are still ripping on him. For shame... If there's one player on this team who deserves our respect and praise, it's Koivu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smon Posted April 8, 2007 Share Posted April 8, 2007 Well, Gainey knew he was hiring a guy with no NHL head coach experience when he brought him on board. Carbonneau did his best, he tried to instill his passion into the team, but as even as the old annoying Don Cherry noted, it's not like he could lace up the skates himself for a few games and teach the team how to play well in the NHL... The blame for this debacle rests on the players alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafikz Posted April 8, 2007 Share Posted April 8, 2007 It's easy to criticize Carbo ; I'm still blaming some players Michel Therrien was fired and now he is successful in Pittsburgh When Claude Julien was coaching the Habs, they started the season with the best record in the East ; then, nothing was working, and that wasn't Julien's fault ; remember : Ribeiro, Kovalev, Zednik stopped working hard, Theodoere had his off-ice preblems...I was shocked when he was fired Julien was doing a terrific job this season with New Jersey (102 pts) , until he was fired by Lou (still scratching my head over that one) And Carbo is just another victim of his players... Sure, he made some rookie mistakes, I admit. But what else do you have to do when your so-called superstars don't bring anything?? u have to try other lines, put other players on the ice ; that's called despration ; and that's what happens when some overpaid players don't help the coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.O.Baby Posted April 8, 2007 Share Posted April 8, 2007 hahaha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted April 8, 2007 Share Posted April 8, 2007 I think what people fail to realize when the players don't show up there isn't alot a coach can do. Carbo changed lines, stayed with lines, called out people, benched people, nothing worked. Thanks rafkz, you are one of very few who actually put the blame where it belongs, the PLAYERS. Sutter, Nolan and Keenan couldn't motivate these slugs to play hard for 60 minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafikz Posted April 8, 2007 Share Posted April 8, 2007 True; when Montreal was 5 points behind Buffalo, everybody was PRAISING Carbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMAC Posted April 8, 2007 Share Posted April 8, 2007 Fire Carbo and if you don't have the balls to admit you were wrong...Go back to Dallas!! Perhaps the all-time stupidest post on this board. We have a GM with a plan and a rookie coach who developed the young talent and you think BOb should just chuck Carbo away and start again? Give your head a shake. Next year when the team is doing well people like you will be saying how wonderful Bob and Carbo are... I hate fair weather fans. Of course I am pissed that we lost but it happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nilan Posted April 8, 2007 Share Posted April 8, 2007 The season's subtiltle: Waiting for Kovalev 1. The plan with Carbonneau is to let him grow with the team. He made rookie mistakes, including alienating key players (Rivet, Samsonov). But he did go with youth down the stretch and his controversial decision to play the kids in the final minutes showed, to me, the overall philosophy of the organization, which is SCHOOL THE KIDS. Good. So: I certainly wouldn't fire him nor be enraged at him, but his learning curve DID cost us some points. 2. Huet is a transitional goalie, but a good one. I'm comfortable with him and Halak for next season. 3. Koivu IS the core and quite possibly one of the only veterans who will survive what I expect to be a low-level purge (Sammy, possibly Kovy, Bonk, Johnson, Souray...) 4. Gainey made a HUGE mistake in not dealing Souray. That is obvious and has been all along. 5. This is one of those 'weird seasons.' Something was fundamentally wrong with team chemistry and it never got fixed. I don't think we know exactly what happened; we may find out eventually - who was sleeping with whose wife, which key leader hated whom, etc.. This team WAS much more talented than their results showed. We could have been a legitimate dark horse, if we had shown character and will. And that's why this is the most disappointing team since the 1992 habs. Such promise, pissed down the drain, for reasons nobody really comprehends. Still, the optimist in me says that this was a KEY transitional year. Next season, no one will be waiting around for Kovalev or Samsonov to do their jobs. It will be the more experienced young players, the Plekanecs and Higgins and Komisareks, and Markopv, who will be asked to step up and lead. That won't make us contenders but it might well start to see us get stamped in the self-image of winners rather than losers. But we'll also need UFA or trade help. I still think we'll go nowhere until we get a #1 C (Briere) but I would imagine that Gainey's first priority will be defence. The season's subtiltle: Waiting for Kovalev 1. The plan with Carbonneau is to let him grow with the team. He made rookie mistakes, including alienating key players (Rivet, Samsonov). But he did go with youth down the stretch and his controversial decision to play the kids in the final minutes showed, to me, the overall philosophy of the organization, which is SCHOOL THE KIDS. Good. So: I certainly wouldn't fire him nor be enraged at him, but his learning curve DID cost us some points. 2. Huet is a transitional goalie, but a good one. I'm comfortable with him and Halak for next season. 3. Koivu IS the core and quite possibly one of the only veterans who will survive what I expect to be a low-level purge (Sammy, possibly Kovy, Bonk, Johnson, Souray...) 4. Gainey made a HUGE mistake in not dealing Souray. That is obvious and has been all along. 5. This is one of those 'weird seasons.' Something was fundamentally wrong with team chemistry and it never got fixed. I don't think we know exactly what happened; we may find out eventually - who was sleeping with whose wife, which key leader hated whom, etc.. This team WAS much more talented than their results showed. We could have been a legitimate dark horse, if we had shown character and will. And that's why this is the most disappointing team since the 1992 habs. Such promise, pissed down the drain, for reasons nobody really comprehends. Still, the optimist in me says that this was a KEY transitional year. Next season, no one will be waiting around for Kovalev or Samsonov to do their jobs. It will be the more experienced young players, the Plekanecs and Higgins and Komisareks, and Markopv, who will be asked to step up and lead. That won't make us contenders but it might well start to see us get stamped in the self-image of winners rather than losers. But we'll also need UFA or trade help. I still think we'll go nowhere until we get a #1 C (Briere) but I would imagine that Gainey's first priority will be defence. ...smartest post ive read all day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBHabs_fan Posted April 8, 2007 Share Posted April 8, 2007 NO way this team is capable of 100 points. This team has no heart. This team is not a playoff calibre team. Just look at the efforts against the Rangers and Leafs. This team needs to rebuild around Higgins, Ryder, Kostitsyn, Plekanec, Lapierre, Latendresse and Markov. Koivu, Kovalev, Samsonvo, Souray, Aebischer, Downey, Murray, BOnk, and Leighton should all be cut loose. Find a new coach. I'd bring Julien back. Find a new GM.....not sure who might be available, but understandable Bob Gainey has lost his nerve. Draft some defensman in the 2007 draft. Its where the team is lacking depth Man, we had over 90 and played like ass for 2 months. I'd say we were more than capable of 100 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted April 8, 2007 Share Posted April 8, 2007 His +/- is because of his team. And also because he doesn't get much even strength time. Ribeiro, Kovalev and Souray are all similar in the way that they should all get average to low even-strength minutes and then a shitload of PP time. That's how they rack of the points. Maybe the same thing can be said for Ryder. Actually, there are lots of bad plus minus on Dallas and he played lots of even strength minutes. My friends in Dallas were very impressed with his ability to play solid defensive hockey when at even strength, then go offensive on the PP. He also had a lot of key goals for them this year. They still laugh at the trade. Oh, and only 6 of his goals and 27 points were on the PP.... so 12 goals and 29 points even strength.... True; when Montreal was 5 points behind Buffalo, everybody was PRAISING Carbo LOL, I wasn't, and got reamed for it at the time. I was annoyed at his behavior at penalties, line combos, and strategy even when we were winning. Still, I don't think he should be fired, as long as he learned from this season and improves next year. We already suffered the pain of his rookie season, we might as well get the benefit of his improvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted April 8, 2007 Share Posted April 8, 2007 Actually, there are lots of bad plus minus on Dallas and he played lots of even strength minutes. My friends in Dallas were very impressed with his ability to play solid defensive hockey when at even strength, then go offensive on the PP. He also had a lot of key goals for them this year. They still laugh at the trade. Oh, and only 6 of his goals and 27 points were on the PP.... so 12 goals and 29 points even strength.... LOL, I wasn't, and got reamed for it at the time. I was annoyed at his behavior at penalties, line combos, and strategy even when we were winning. Those numbers are nothing impressive. Slightly less than half his points came on the PP, which is the norm for him. Even if he WERE a solid secondline center, which he isn't, he was still a cancer in Montreal and wouldn't do anything here. Just losing him was addition by subtraction, so bringing in a depth d-man (at a time when we had injuries on an already average blueline) was just a bonus. It wasn't the steal of the century, but it was a good move, that put us in the right direction - same for the Theodore trade and getting rid of Dagenais. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Van Hab Posted April 8, 2007 Share Posted April 8, 2007 Time to go: 1. Koivu...huge respect for him as person and player BUT he's not a first line center in the NHL. 2. Souray...nice shot..BUT WHAT ELSE? Massive defensive liability. Makes huge mistakes game in game out. Nice asset on the power play but the game is unfortunately usually played even strength. 3. Kovalev and Samsonov...nothing needs to be said about this other than I hope Bob can get something for these two cancers. 4. Komisarek....when is he going to blossom into the great defensive asset he was touted to become? Again, makes way too many mistakes and a real sissy for a large human being. These are my main concerns....amongst other minor ones. Not all doom and gloom. I think we've got a solid, young nucleus emerging. Things will come around with Bob and Guy at the helm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafikz Posted April 8, 2007 Share Posted April 8, 2007 Koivu : 4.75 millions U.S Briere : 5 millions U.S :?- :?- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted April 8, 2007 Share Posted April 8, 2007 Those numbers are nothing impressive. Slightly less than half his points came on the PP, which is the norm for him. Even if he WERE a solid secondline center, which he isn't, he was still a cancer in Montreal and wouldn't do anything here. Just losing him was addition by subtraction, so bringing in a depth d-man (at a time when we had injuries on an already average blueline) was just a bonus. It wasn't the steal of the century, but it was a good move, that put us in the right direction - same for the Theodore trade and getting rid of Dagenais. Well, he has better numbers with less minutes then Pleks... would you be happy if we traded Pleks for nothing? I wouldn't! You must really hate Ribs, because you are grasping at straws. MORE then half of Koivu's points and goals were on the PP.. So which is it. Does Ribs suck because he only gets PP points, or does he suck because he didn't get enough. I am confused by your logic... As for the cancer in the room, you don't have to make a bad trade to resolve it, you show some patience. In any case, if he was the cancer, there must have been a relapse, because this team was even less happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB Posted April 8, 2007 Share Posted April 8, 2007 Those numbers are nothing impressive. Slightly less than half his points came on the PP, which is the norm for him. Even if he WERE a solid secondline center, which he isn't, he was still a cancer in Montreal and wouldn't do anything here. Just losing him was addition by subtraction, so bringing in a depth d-man (at a time when we had injuries on an already average blueline) was just a bonus. It wasn't the steal of the century, but it was a good move, that put us in the right direction - same for the Theodore trade and getting rid of Dagenais. How can you say with a strait face that losing him was addition by substraction........our team as lacked the scoring depth any descent team need to have in its line-up in order to compete. Our team didn't have a 50 goal scorer in the line-up at the beginning of the season, substracting Ribeiro was a direct subtraction of the scoring depth of our team.......this was bound to fail and it did in a convincing manner. Gainey has overestimated Samsonov and underestimated the lost of Ribeiro.........a combination of two errors that resulted in a team that had about the poorest scoring capacity at event-strenght in the whole league........this crucial inherent weakness of our team was in fact our cancer.....the only one worth a consideration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted April 8, 2007 Share Posted April 8, 2007 How can you say with a strait face that losing him was addition by substraction........our team as lacked the scoring depth any descent team need to have in its line-up in order to compete. Our team didn't have a 50 goal scorer in the line-up at the beginning of the season, substracting Ribeiro was a direct subtraction of the scoring depth of our team.......this was bound to fail and it did in a convincing manner. Gainey has overestimated Samsonov and underestimated the lost of Ribeiro.........a combination of two errors that resulted in a team that had about the poorest scoring capacity at event-strenght in the whole league........this crucial inherent weakness of our team was in fact our cancer.....the only one worth a consideration. The Ribeiro trade was a calculated risk. It didn't pan out. But to think Ribs would have made the difference is preposterous. He never did before. And Pleks scored at nearly a PPG pace in the second half - could Ribs have done better than a point per game? Samsonov, give me a break. The guy put together 8 solid seasons as an offensive player in the NHL before he came here. What happened there is a mystery, but blaming Gainey for that signing seems like backseat driving to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneSharpMarble Posted April 8, 2007 Share Posted April 8, 2007 hahaha! BAhahahahahah Who is laughing now? You were sooooo close and then shut down!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBHabs_fan Posted April 8, 2007 Share Posted April 8, 2007 Time to go: 1. Koivu...huge respect for him as person and player BUT he's not a first line center in the NHL. 2. Souray...nice shot..BUT WHAT ELSE? Massive defensive liability. Makes huge mistakes game in game out. Nice asset on the power play but the game is unfortunately usually played even strength. 3. Kovalev and Samsonov...nothing needs to be said about this other than I hope Bob can get something for these two cancers. 4. Komisarek....when is he going to blossom into the great defensive asset he was touted to become? Again, makes way too many mistakes and a real sissy for a large human being. These are my main concerns....amongst other minor ones. Not all doom and gloom. I think we've got a solid, young nucleus emerging. Things will come around with Bob and Guy at the helm. So because he is not a first line center he has to go?? Makes no sense. Way to bash the heart and soul of the team with the first line of your first post.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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