The Great Canadiens Gripe Thread

[Athlétique.Canadien]

What's to gripe about? The past is the past. The game is already over. The Habs and Gainey, roll up your sleeves and at first if you don't succeed.......

..WE'LL BE BACK :hlogo:

Edited April 9, 2007 by ATHLÉTIQUE.CANADIEN

[InsaneHABSfan]

Only real gripe I will ever have against Habs is losing that game or any game to the lowlife Leaf fans hockey team. Now we are also going to hear that shootouts should not be in the NHL from LEaf media and Leaf loser fans, oh brother how ignorant they are.

As for the Habs, I do not think that the coach was up to the task and did not get enough out of the players he needed to win. As for the players, there will be changes and we will now see how good Bob gainey is as a GM. by taking out the trash!

I will add one big must read positive here. Check out the link for a summary of the good about this years team:

LINK

[revin5]

Shootouts should not be in the NHL.

[Athlétique.Canadien]

Thanks InsaneAVSfan. It's refreshing to know that the Canadiens have a GM who knows how to build teams from top to bottom. That is, capturing all of the tools (and the small things, often overlooked by other GM's) to build a solid all around club.

And, being an InsaneAVSfan, I'm sure you can testify about how much of a headache Dallas was in the late 90's. Gainey is the type of GM; that in spite of all of his farts, if he is hanging around a team that one can't stand for long enough you know they are not going to feel comfortable in the long run.

I have a friend at work who's an Av's fan. To him, the sky is falling. I reminded him (to cheer him up) about Stastny (Calder candidate who won't win it but has potential and is awesome) . It won't take the Av's long to right the lost ship.

It'll be interesting to see how Gainey solves Sammy, Kovy and Souray.

Is Souray a wimp by the way?

Edited April 9, 2007 by ATHLÉTIQUE.CANADIEN

[jtvoxboi]

Carbo was not ready to coach. He has communication problems and some of this team disunity falls at his feet. Not sure if I would fire him, it would depend on whether he learned from his mistakes or not...

When I compare them to the leafs, i see one striking difference. The leafs went with a real coach, a guy who got the very most out of a fairly crappy team. Carbo has a lot to learn..

Time to go:

1. Koivu...huge respect for him as person and player BUT he's not a first line center in the NHL.

2. Souray...

What's to gripe about? The past is the past. The game is already over. The Habs and Gainey, roll up your sleeves and at first if you don't succeed.......

..WE'LL BE BACK :hlogo:

ATHLÉTIQUE.CANADIEN you are totally TOTALLY right!!!

...wow, we are a bunch of armchair hockey rocket scientists aren't we... I can't understand any coach bashing and the trash talk against certain players... if this were the attitude in Ottawa, Daniel Alfredsson(133), would have been out of a job based upon his 'draft' level... potential, it's about seeing the potential and working with it, not over 4 months but two to three years, or are Higgins (2002), Lapierre (2003), Latendresse(2005), and Halak(2003) all a bunch of losers? NO WAY!!!... give them time... and there are more to come... Real habs fans know how to wait for real talent. The Flower scored 500 plus in his 14 year NHL career, but not 50 in his first year... Gainey wasn't drafted(8) to score goals, either was Doug Jarvis(24). Kirk Muller was(2) expected to score goals and still took 3 years in MTL to win a cup... Carbo(44) won Cups here as well. Would we boot out a Lacavalier(1) if he didn't score in his first year (28 points) if he was on our bench? This isn't pee-wee...

Let's bleed (for now, then get stitched up), knowing we can heal and come back with a nasty looking scar that'll make everyone say, "That will NEVER happen again!" Nobody want's to play against a war-scarred team. Fine tune what we've got, and we are going to be killer next year.

Sorry the post is so long...

GO :hlogo: GO!

Cheers,

J

Edited April 9, 2007 by jtvoxboi

[Athlétique.Canadien]

I think I'll post again. Just to prove how much a stick in the gut it is to T.O. fans. Or should be.

All of you fans out there who have to deal with a Leaf fan who is annoying you, here is the solution. Here is the formula.

All that jubilation in downtown Hog smelling Town...I hope you leefy fantasy leefies had fun. Dancing like you just won the cup. Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha. All you actually managed to do was cut us off on a chance cup. But, make no mistake. WE WILL ONLY GET WORSE AND SOONER THAN YOU CAN STAND IT!

You'll hate us next year. And, in spite of all who question BOb, we do have 2-1st round picks. Leafs dumped their's for Perreault, a UFA hahahaha THEY HAVE NONE

HAHAHAHAHA

GAINEY AND THE HABS WIN

So, they won last night. Big deal - they sink more. Two first rounders to none hahahahaha.

Remind T.O. fans if they get cocky on this silly victory

ROTFLMAO :hlogo: :hlogo: :hlogo:

[kaos]

Koivu : 4.75 millions U.S

Briere : 5 millions U.S

:?- :?-

Just wait and see what Briere makes next year. After that Datsyuk contract, Briere should be up around the $7 million dollar mark. Koivu is still overpaid at $4.75 Million per.

[johnnyhasbeen]

This team didn't lose from lack of talent. They were stacked talent wise and that is why they won games. They slumped and lost the key 2 final games do to lack of 60 minutes effort. That was what haunted this team all year. What they need to add more than anything seems to be a character player. That guy who can get his team fired up before they hit the ice and on the bench. Toronto had the jump on them from the start of game. The puck hadn't been dropped and Toronto had the jump on them. No excuses. The challenge now is for one of the kids to fill this role or Gainey needs to find one on the free market. Our current leaders, although all very talented, proved in one foul swoop that they don't possess that attribute. If this role isn't filled the team will not succeed. This is not the coaches job. A player needs to fill this role.

Edited April 9, 2007 by johnnyhasbeen

[InsaneHABSfan]

And, in spite of all who question BOb, we do have 2-1st round picks. Leafs dumped their's for Perreault, a UFA hahahaha THEY HAVE NONE

Are you serious? A Montreal reject was traded to the Leafs for a first? Oh man were they robbed if that was the price. Maybe they will trade for some other old Habs next year for their first and second in 2008

There is one thing I can respect about the Habs. Not trading young players for a quick fix. Kudos to Bob Gainey and the organization for not trying to buy a playoff spot. Now if the Habs buy out Samsonov life will be much better for the younger players. I like Samsonov, just dont think Montreal needs his type of play with this roster.

A first for Perreault...hahahahahahaha that is funny!

Go Habs!

[Athlétique.Canadien]

We lost because Carbo, Muller and the players couldn't overcome the 2 - 1 - 2 strategy by T.O.

Two men forward and two men back with the center supporting the back or forecheck.

Frustrating.

[Athlétique.Canadien]

What's with Souray? He looked like he had a silly cramp and bailed on the team last night IMO. Any news on his condition or is he a quitter for the team?

What happened :?-

Edited April 9, 2007 by ATHLÉTIQUE.CANADIEN

[FuRy]

Find a new coach. I'd bring Julien back. Find a new GM.....not sure who might be available, but understandable Bob Gainey has lost his nerve.

Draft some defensman in the 2007 draft. Its where the team is lacking depth

Yeah, a new coach, because stability is always a bad thing. I guess you're one of those guys who wanted Vigneault, Therrien, Julien et al. fired all these years. Gainey should've traded our young players for veterans, what a bad GM . For years everyone was crying out to see Montreal put young players on their roster. Now that they do, they have to trade them for older players. Yeehaw!

And I guess you're unaware of Montreal's picks in 2006?

What's with Souray? He looked like he had a silly cramp and bailed on the team last night IMO. Any news on his condition or is he a quitter for the team?

What happened :?-

Dislocated shoulder.

Edited April 9, 2007 by FuRy

[PB]

The Ribeiro trade was a calculated risk. It didn't pan out. But to think Ribs would have made the difference is preposterous. He never did before. And Pleks scored at nearly a PPG pace in the second half - could Ribs have done better than a point per game?

Samsonov, give me a break. The guy put together 8 solid seasons as an offensive player in the NHL before he came here. What happened there is a mystery, but blaming Gainey for that signing seems like backseat driving to me.

I was not comparing Ribs with pleks, I said that substracting Ribeiro from the original starting roster was a substraction to the team's overall scoring prowess........meaning plainly that our team with Ribs and Pleks in the roster would have been a more offensivelly capable team than the one we saw.

Dallas got Ribeiro in order to increase the scoring depth of their team......they have use him effectivelly and it worked well..........we, on the other hand, ended up with a team that has pretty much the worst scoring stats of ANY team when 5-on-5.

Stats relevant to our previous season was clear.....SCORING DEFFICIENCY was flashing red.

Substracting an offensive talented player from the roster is the last thing that this team short on

talent needed........Gainey did it and our team's scoring depth failed to improve over the previous season.....

this alone is enought to fall......this league 's parity have no pity for team's that fail to improve upon their weakness.....and fallind we did.

[KoZed]

Carbo needs to be kept in place. Him and Muller and Jarvis have all done an incredible job with our special units where quality coaching is critical.

Most importantly, those 3 guys are believers in a high-level work-ethic. This year was a real transition year. Not only because of the 9 under-25 kids that stepped up; but also because the coaching staff had to stamp a whole new philosophy on the team. That clashed with the vets because they were used to cruise and lift their feet off the pedal without being called on it. But Carbo, Muller and Jarvis have seen what true winners are and they could see and tell the vets they could still give more.

The blame rests squarely on the shoulders of the players. They proved they had the talent to compete with the best teams in the league; so their downfalls are simply a failure to show up. Not a lack of talent or coaching.

The one huge positive point of this season is that the kids had success because they submitted to the coaches' philosophy. Look at how Kosty turned his season around after getting a stern attitude adjustment from the coaches.

We're lucky to have coaches who knows exactly what it takes to win. We're lucky to have kids who are willing to buy into it. We were just unlucky to have a core of veterans who weren't willing to do the same sacrifices.

That's how I see this season. A new Habs team has showed up under the old one. And with the coaches we've got that new team will be brought up right because they wont have time to pick up bad habits like the vets on this team had.

Edited April 9, 2007 by KoZed

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Carbo needs to be kept in place. Him and Muller and Jarvis have all done an incredible job with our special units where quality coaching is critical.

Most importantly, those 3 guys are believers in a high-level work-ethic. This year was a real transition year. Not only because of the 9 under-25 kids that stepped up; but also because the coaching staff had to stamp a whole new philosophy on the team. That clashed with the vets because they were used to cruise and lift their feet off the pedal without being called on it. But Carbo, Muller and Jarvis have seen what true winners are and they could see and tell the vets they could still give more.

The blame rests squarely on the shoulders of the players. They proved they had the talent to compete with the best teams in the league; so their downfalls are simply a failure to show up. Not a lack of talent or coaching.

The one huge positive point of this season is that the kids had success because they submitted to the coaches' philosophy. Look at how Kosty turned his season around after getting a stern attitude adjustment from the coaches.

We're lucky to have coaches who knows exactly what it takes to win. We're lucky to have kids who are willing to buy into it. We were just unlucky to have a core of veterans who weren't willing to do the same sacrifices.

That's how I see this season. A new Habs team has showed up under the old one. And with the coaches we've got that new team will be brought up right because they wont have time to pick up bad habits like the vets on this team had.

There's a lot to this. The only young player that didn't show some major signs of progress this year was Perezhogin. It's the vets - Rivet, Samsonov, Kovalev and *possibly* even Koivu at times - who recoiled against the coaches. That's another reason for keeping Carbo and thinking that the team will get better going forward; next season the experienced youth will be the leaders, not Kovalev. And suddenly Carbo might start looking like a genius.

[tokyohabs]

I like a lot in KoZed's post. Carbo has a lot of faults, but there is a big thing about clashing with the vets.

Anyone who keeps defending the vets, the so-called 'core', must also enjoy utter mediocrity and that ever-exciting race for 8th, just to lose in the 1st round. Wow, just like an expansion team, with nicer uniforms and better attendance! Wow, cool!

Don't know frankly if Carbo is good or not. But know that the vets aren't good, just mediocre. Carbo did right throwing out the kids at the end - what in God's name have our vets ever proved? They are NOT winners.

Carbo will get a couple of UFA's, a lot less deadweight, and another season. Let's see how he runs with the kids.

[Athlétique.Canadien]

Yeah, a new coach, because stability is always a bad thing. I guess you're one of those guys who wanted Vigneault, Therrien, Julien et al. fired all these years. Gainey should've traded our young players for veterans, what a bad GM . For years everyone was crying out to see Montreal put young players on their roster. Now that they do, they have to trade them for older players. Yeehaw!

And I guess you're unaware of Montreal's picks in 2006?

Dislocated shoulder.

Oh, OK

[kaos]

I think I'll post again. Just to prove how much a stick in the gut it is to T.O. fans. Or should be.

All of you fans out there who have to deal with a Leaf fan who is annoying you, here is the solution. Here is the formula.

All that jubilation in downtown Hog smelling Town...I hope you leefy fantasy leefies had fun. Dancing like you just won the cup. Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha. All you actually managed to do was cut us off on a chance cup. But, make no mistake. WE WILL ONLY GET WORSE AND SOONER THAN YOU CAN STAND IT!

You'll hate us next year. And, in spite of all who question BOb, we do have 2-1st round picks. Leafs dumped their's for Perreault, a UFA hahahaha THEY HAVE NONE

HAHAHAHAHA

GAINEY AND THE HABS WIN

So, they won last night. Big deal - they sink more. Two first rounders to none hahahahaha.

Remind T.O. fans if they get cocky on this silly victory

ROTFLMAO :hlogo: :hlogo: :hlogo:

Actually Toronto has a pick in every round and an extra pick in the fourth round. They traded Brendan Bell for Perrault. Toronto has a pick in the first round and will pick one spot behind Montreal. Either 13th or 14th overall.

We lost because Carbo, Muller and the players couldn't overcome the 2 - 1 - 2 strategy by T.O.

Two men forward and two men back with the center supporting the back or forecheck.

Frustrating.

Montrael lost because they could do better than 20-2 shot disadvantage in the first 10 mins of the game and couldn't get a shot on goal in the last 12 mins of the game.....thats pathetic.

Yeah, a new coach, because stability is always a bad thing. I guess you're one of those guys who wanted Vigneault, Therrien, Julien et al. fired all these years. Gainey should've traded our young players for veterans, what a bad GM . For years everyone was crying out to see Montreal put young players on their roster. Now that they do, they have to trade them for older players. Yeehaw!

And I guess you're unaware of Montreal's picks in 2006?

Dislocated shoulder.

[Athlétique.Canadien]

Actually Toronto has a pick in every round and an extra pick in the fourth round. They traded Brendan Bell for Perrault. Toronto has a pick in the first round and will pick one spot behind Montreal. Either 13th or 14th overall.

Montrael lost because they could do better than 20-2 shot disadvantage in the first 10 mins of the game and couldn't get a shot on goal in the last 12 mins of the game.....thats pathetic.

Oooops, OK - it was a 2nd. I thought it was a first. And yes, Montreal lost due to the 20-2 shot issue but at the end of the day they couldn't crack the 2 - 1 - 2 system. Both points are facts.

Thanks for clarifying kaos

[Dalhabs]

Carbo needs to be kept in place. Him and Muller and Jarvis have all done an incredible job with our special units where quality coaching is critical.

Most importantly, those 3 guys are believers in a high-level work-ethic. This year was a real transition year. Not only because of the 9 under-25 kids that stepped up; but also because the coaching staff had to stamp a whole new philosophy on the team. That clashed with the vets because they were used to cruise and lift their feet off the pedal without being called on it. But Carbo, Muller and Jarvis have seen what true winners are and they could see and tell the vets they could still give more.

The blame rests squarely on the shoulders of the players. They proved they had the talent to compete with the best teams in the league; so their downfalls are simply a failure to show up. Not a lack of talent or coaching.

The one huge positive point of this season is that the kids had success because they submitted to the coaches' philosophy. Look at how Kosty turned his season around after getting a stern attitude adjustment from the coaches.

We're lucky to have coaches who knows exactly what it takes to win. We're lucky to have kids who are willing to buy into it. We were just unlucky to have a core of veterans who weren't willing to do the same sacrifices.

That's how I see this season. A new Habs team has showed up under the old one. And with the coaches we've got that new team will be brought up right because they wont have time to pick up bad habits like the vets on this team had.

Lets just hope that they dont do the same misstake as Houle and the GM before him did and trade away ALL of the vets for worse vets. Just release the unessesary parts.

[brobin]

The Ribeiro trade was a calculated risk. It didn't pan out. But to think Ribs would have made the difference is preposterous. He never did before. And Pleks scored at nearly a PPG pace in the second half - could Ribs have done better than a point per game?

Samsonov, give me a break. The guy put together 8 solid seasons as an offensive player in the NHL before he came here. What happened there is a mystery, but blaming Gainey for that signing seems like backseat driving to me.

We didn't trade Ribs for Pleks. Pleks scored well in the second half, but he sucked in the first. Who knows how he will perform next year.

We could have had Pleks and Ribs, or we could have traded Ribs for another 40 to 60 point player who fit in better with the team chemistry. We did neither. We gave away Ribs for the honor of paying Niinimaa's excess salary.

People always seem to confuse this issue. It is not about loving Ribs or hating Ribs. It has nothing to do with Pleks. It has every thing to do with the management of assets. People are upset on this board because we didn't get a 2nd round pick for Souray and might lose him for nothing. We at least had Souray all year. We lost Ribs and just took on a crappy defenseman with a huge salary. That is wasting an asset. If they had waited a bit, they could have traded Ribs for a decent forward to replace him in the lineup.

In any case, I hope Gainey learned from it. At least he didn't dump any of the young guys for a UFA, which is good progress.

The Sammy things is just bad luck for Gainey, who knew. The real test is how he handles it. Does he buy him out? Does he repair the relationship and find a way to get Sammy back? Can he trade him for an asset? It will be interesting to see. He did pretty good with Theo...

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

We didn't trade Ribs for Pleks. Pleks scored well in the second half, but he sucked in the first. Who knows how he will perform next year.

We could have had Pleks and Ribs, or we could have traded Ribs for another 40 to 60 point player who fit in better with the team chemistry. We did neither. We gave away Ribs for the honor of paying Niinimaa's excess salary.

People always seem to confuse this issue. It is not about loving Ribs or hating Ribs. It has nothing to do with Pleks. It has every thing to do with the management of assets. People are upset on this board because we didn't get a 2nd round pick for Souray and might lose him for nothing. We at least had Souray all year. We lost Ribs and just took on a crappy defenseman with a huge salary. That is wasting an asset. If they had waited a bit, they could have traded Ribs for a decent forward to replace him in the lineup.

In any case, I hope Gainey learned from it. At least he didn't dump any of the young guys for a UFA, which is good progress.

The Sammy things is just bad luck for Gainey, who knew. The real test is how he handles it. Does he buy him out? Does he repair the relationship and find a way to get Sammy back? Can he trade him for an asset? It will be interesting to see. He did pretty good with Theo...

You're overlooking the fact that Ninimaa WAS a reasonable risk. He had been a near-star defenceman who looked as though he'd had some injuries and gone through a bad season - quite a plausible candidate for a rebound, really. Like I say, it didn't work out but it was a reasonable calculation at the time.

There would have been no point in trading Ribeiro for a 50-point winger or any other forward. We're LOADED at forward. And we'd just signed Samsonov and had a surplus at that position.

We needed depth at D. No team would have traded us a bona fide top-4 defenceman for Ribeiro. And now way was Bob going to trade a decent young forward for D. So Gainey made a move trading a player with decent offensive numbers but a limited ceiling, for a problematic D-man with proven top-4 POTENTIAL. Good risk. Didn't work out. That's life.

Edited April 9, 2007 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber

[CBHabs_fan]

When will the pain go away. I dont think watching the playoffs and what could have been a Habs-Sabres 1st round will help. Talk about a potentially exciting series.

[brobin]

You're overlooking the fact that Ninimaa WAS a reasonable risk. He had been a near-star defenceman who looked as though he'd had some injuries and gone through a bad season - quite a plausible candidate for a rebound, really. Like I say, it didn't work out but it was a reasonable calculation at the time.

There would have been no point in trading Ribeiro for a 50-point winger or any other forward. We're LOADED at forward. And we'd just signed Samsonov and had a surplus at that position.

We needed depth at D. No team would have traded us a bona fide top-4 defenceman for Ribeiro. And now way was Bob going to trade a decent young forward for D. So Gainey made a move trading a player with decent offensive numbers but a limited ceiling, for a problematic D-man with proven top-4 POTENTIAL. Good risk. Didn't work out. That's life.

I am not overlooking that fact, I disagree with it for two reasons. One, we didn't need another defensive project with a high salary. We needed scoring help. Second, Niinimaa was terrible, and it was not just injuries. He was not worth a proven 50 to 60 point play maker, even if that play maker had issues.

I said at the time I thought the trade sucked and I stand by that assessment (which is easy in hindsight ).

Sammy was a gamble too, but much less of one. He cost us nothing but salary cap space. But he didn't work out either.

In any case, that kind of mistake hurts the teams overall depth and asset list. It is the kind of mistake Gainey can't afford to make again if we want this team to get better, rather then stand still.

[Athlétique.Canadien]

According to the Gazette, buying out Sammy will create a 1.2 million cap hit in 2008 and the 2009 season. What damage will a Kovy buyout lead to? Little help?