The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 I am not overlooking that fact, I disagree with it for two reasons. One, we didn't need another defensive project with a high salary. We needed scoring help. Second, Niinimaa was terrible, and it was not just injuries. He was not worth a proven 50 to 60 point play maker, even if that play maker had issues. I said at the time I thought the trade sucked and I stand by that assessment (which is easy in hindsight ). Sammy was a gamble too, but much less of one. He cost us nothing but salary cap space. But he didn't work out either. In any case, that kind of mistake hurts the teams overall depth and asset list. It is the kind of mistake Gainey can't afford to make again if we want this team to get better, rather then stand still. Well, there isn't much disagreement between us - we both agree that the trade didn't work out. I thought it was a reasonable, if risky, move; I still don't think we could have gotten a defenceman with a higher potential ceiling for Ribs than we got. I'd just add that the cap hit really had no apparent effect on the team. It's not like Gainey *almost* got Forsberg but couldn't because of Ninimaa's salary. Anyway - a marginal issue at best, in the end, since Ribs was an asset of only moderate value anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Van Hab Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 So because he is not a first line center he has to go?? Makes no sense. Way to bash the heart and soul of the team with the first line of your first post.. Yes, he has to be removed from the first line and replaced with someone who can play the role. Like I said, I like and respect the guy, but he can't play the role the Habs need him to play. If he didn't have a no trade clause, I would put him on the market. Also, I think Begin would give Koivu a run for the "heart and soul" award on this team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beliveau1 Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 (edited) Time to go: 1. Koivu...huge respect for him as person and player BUT he's not a first line center in the NHL...... 4. Komisarek....when is he going to blossom into the great defensive asset he was touted to become? Again, makes way too many mistakes and a real sissy for a large human being. As for # 1 - did you really think much before making that comment? Just because he isn't a number one centre you'd trade this guy... last time I looked at NHL rosters you still needed a damn good #2 centre! Koivu fits that bill. # 4 - 248 = Number of hits thrown by Mike Komisarek this season, placing the 6-foot-4, 241-pounder second on the NHL’s hit list among defenseman behind only league-leader Sean Hill of the New York Islanders. Showed up for all 82 games; 4 goals 15 assists and plus 7..... not bad for a young defensive oriented defenceman who is still just growing into his prime(anyone remember watching Larry Robinson as he matured?) As for 2 & 3 - no comment needed there..... Edited April 10, 2007 by beliveau1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Well, there isn't much disagreement between us - we both agree that the trade didn't work out. I thought it was a reasonable, if risky, move; I still don't think we could have gotten a defenceman with a higher potential ceiling for Ribs than we got. I'd just add that the cap hit really had no apparent effect on the team. It's not like Gainey *almost* got Forsberg but couldn't because of Ninimaa's salary. Anyway - a marginal issue at best, in the end, since Ribs was an asset of only moderate value anyway. I think you under rate Rib's asset value. If you can find a consistent 50 plus center who is signed, relatively cheap, and that we can get for Niinimaa.. let me know. If we were going to dump him, we should have gone for draft picks or a prospect at least. That might have worked out eventually. Now, it was not as bad as most Boston trades, but I expect more from Gainey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 (edited) There's a lot to this. The only young player that didn't show some major signs of progress this year was Perezhogin. It's the vets - Rivet, Samsonov, Kovalev and *possibly* even Koivu at times - who recoiled against the coaches. That's another reason for keeping Carbo and thinking that the team will get better going forward; next season the experienced youth will be the leaders, not Kovalev. And suddenly Carbo might start looking like a genius. I whish I could share your hopes about Cabo, what stop me is not the rookie mistakes he made throughout the season but my belief that is perception of the newNHL is flawed. He has not realised how much more dammages teams possessing good puck control can create in this new environment, more than it ever did in the old one. Consequently, his preparation of the team was ill-suited from the start,.....no genius, no innovations.....just an innapropriate mechanical dictation coming from a checking third line player that did well in the old league. The starting roster was poised to make significant progresses over the last previous seasons, the ingredients were definitelly there and then some(Hamilton).....but the Chief used a bad recipe for the group at hand.....and frustrated the potential for growth and better hockey.....this essentially was the tone setter for an underperforming and frustrated group of players.....and some fans like me. Carbo did not make the whole better than the sum of it's part,.....his approach didn't established the importance of puck possession and control and thus never accomodated fully, as it should have, the inherent speed and talent availlable within the group..........predictably, it stiffled the offensive capability of the team. This is how I felt about the team's performances throughout the season and the team's stats are suggesting strongly that this is how it went. Carbo is not going anywhere and will influence things for a while, with what I saw, I am not crasy about it. I question his vision and subsequent strategys........that's my concern. Edited April 10, 2007 by PB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Van Hab Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 As for # 1 - did you really think much before making that comment? Just because he isn't a number one centre you'd trade this guy... last time I looked at NHL rosters you still needed a damn good #2 centre! Koivu fits that bill. # 4 - 248 = Number of hits thrown by Mike Komisarek this season, placing the 6-foot-4, 241-pounder second on the NHL’s hit list among defenseman behind only league-leader Sean Hill of the New York Islanders. Showed up for all 82 games; 4 goals 15 assists and plus 7..... not bad for a young defensive oriented defenceman who is still just growing into his prime(anyone remember watching Larry Robinson as he matured?) As for 2 & 3 - no comment needed there..... I was suggesting that Koivu can't be the first line center (which you appear to agree with)....moreover, I think that if we could trade him....the time to do so would be now..... And please, no more Europeans to wear the "C"... Robinson? You're making a comparisson with Komisarek?? I like Komi's grit and determination but this "defensive oriented defenceman" (who is often caught out of position,...rendering himself a liability defensively) is not even in the same league with the Big Bird who was one of the most skilled and feared defensive players of all time....not to mention that he had amassed 60 points in his third season of play and 85 by the fifth. Gimme a break. You're dreamin'. We'll see what Komi blossoms into with the Habs in next year's fifth season with them.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beliveau1 Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 (edited) I was suggesting that Koivu can't be the first line center (which you appear to agree with)....moreover, I think that if we could trade him....the time to do so would be now..... And please, no more Europeans to wear the "C"... Robinson? You're making a comparisson with Komisarek?? I like Komi's grit and determination but this "defensive oriented defenceman" (who is often caught out of position,...rendering himself a liability defensively) is not even in the same league with the Big Bird who was one of the most skilled and feared defensive players of all time....not to mention that he had amassed 60 points in his third season of play and 85 by the fifth. Gimme a break. You're dreamin'. We'll see what Komi blossoms into with the Habs in next year's fifth season with them.... NO!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm not comparing the kid to Robinson. I'm not that blind or stupid? However I'm old enough to to know and have watched Robinson grow from a clumsy kid into what he became, and it didn't happen overnight.... in fact when he was here in Kitchener, many were wondering just what the Habs saw in him? I am not for one moment suggesting that he will be the equivalent to Robinson - not a chance! In fact I specifically noted that he was a defensive oriented blueliner..... the only comparison was to the fact that he is still learning his craft, just the same way that Robinson had to! As for Koivu - you should have been a bit more specific on moving him to a second line spot. Your post just said move him - i.e. like in just trade him? That was an easy line to misunderstand unfortunately.... That given - I disagree on trading your captain. There has been too much instability and trading of captains here in recent times. Loyalty to this guy is important for the well being and future of the young guns on the way up right now. It would be the wrong message to send right now? p.s. comparing Komisarek to Robinson would be a form of sacrilege..... Edited April 10, 2007 by beliveau1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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