Perezhogin signs in Russia, part 2

[OneSharpMarble]

No GOD is God in my eyes - not someone here on earth. What an insult that statement is!

And yeah rip Gainey's hiring and then not even care what he thinks.....

He's in charge - you aren't! So maybe you should quit making such statements on his behalf.

He isn't perfect and I damn well see the weaknesses in this club. I was not one of those making ridiculous claims prior to the second half of the season! I was in fact one of those pointing out several of the inadequacies in this team..... especially behind the blueline.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but you've been sharpening the axe far too long on this one to care any more. So I agree to disagree on this one.

Ok you are getting sidetracked, what I am saying is he hasn't done a job that would be deserving of blind devotion most people here show. What he thinks will not change my opinion of his performance so far so why would I send him my opinion? Makes no sense. The problems on this team were huge even before december but what did he do? NOTHING. Then the bottom predictably falls out and he doesn't do a damn thing either. The teams chemistry goes to hell and the locker room starts to divide and still nothing. Does this seem like a professional reaction?

Yeah I have been sharpening the axe for awhile but thats hows long Gainey had to act and failed to do so. Our players had a peak in value and we could have capitalized but now they are low again so we have to deal from the position of weakness.

Don't get so worked up, this is a forum, take a chill pill. You overly religious crack me up.

[Athlétique.Canadien]

...hasn't done a job that would be deserving of blind devotion most people here show....

I hear ya. I personally don't think he gets a get out of jail free card either. I believe we should keep him and ALSO bring in someone better. If BOb does move him I bet it'll be a good deal so I'm not too worrried about it.

[beliveau1]

Ok you are getting sidetracked, what I am saying is he hasn't done a job that would be deserving of blind devotion most people here show. What he thinks will not change my opinion of his performance so far so why would I send him my opinion? Makes no sense. The problems on this team were huge even before december but what did he do? NOTHING. Then the bottom predictably falls out and he doesn't do a damn thing either. The teams chemistry goes to hell and the locker room starts to divide and still nothing. Does this seem like a professional reaction?

Yeah I have been sharpening the axe for awhile but thats hows long Gainey had to act and failed to do so. Our players had a peak in value and we could have capitalized but now they are low again so we have to deal from the position of weakness.

Don't get so worked up, this is a forum, take a chill pill. You overly religious crack me up.

Sidetracked - my comments were directed at your claim that Carbonneau has one year or he's gone?

You are the one who comes here and makes provocative statements more often than not, and claims to know exactly what Gainey's thought's are.....

If you wish to make them then expect someone to react to them(and for the record it's not something I often do as it isn't worth the effort to argue!) You want to hand it out, but don't really like it much when someone disagrees? Piece of info for you - you aren't always right and your opinion isn't always going to be appreciated, liked or agreed with! Happens to all of us.....

I happen agree with some things you say sometimes and other things I just ignore. I assume there are several here who might feel the same way about me. That's fine...

I disagree with your analysis, but you're entitled to it. So back up a bit and quit accusing me of over reacting!

I have enough trouble thinking for myself - I don't need any help from you or anyone else

As for being overly religious - give me a break. I am anything but a religious zealot?

Edited May 9, 2007 by beliveau1

[matsnaslundsuperfan]

Aren't you tired of being wrong all the time?

"Lions of Winter" Anyone?

I'm all in!!!... I don't find you funny.

I side with Beliveau. Your tirade is a bad comedy at best... but you are entitled to your opinions.

[PB]

Ferland is a career AH'er

Chipchura could probably use another year in Hamilton

Milroy is also probably a career AHL'er fill in fourth liner

S. Kostitsyn is no where near being ready

1 million for a UFA to play on the 3rd line is one million less the Habs can spend else where.

Sure, Perezhogin might have disappointed in the points department but he was a solid third liner who was the best backchecker on the team. Also, the potential was there for more...but my main point is that the Habs have lost a bit of depth now...one more player that they have to try and replace...that is why I don't see it as positive.

So continue to roll your eyes if that makes you feel good but I still see this as a negative thing

The Russian League being on the prowl for Russian speaking players is a bad thing, specially for the CH.

Losing Perezhogin is a lost for the CH, both from the new CBA and the new NHL perspectives.

It might not seem to big of a lost as we watched him played within the confine of his restrained role

in his already restrained NHL's team that were the CH, specially this season,.....but there is no doubt in my mind that the CH's system of play will need to evolve and get closer ASP to a template of play as staged by the DETs and BUFFs of this league,.....and in that respect, losing Perezhogin is a set back.

If the CH is planning to move up the performance ladder in this league it will need to have good scoring depth down its lines and entertain a tightcheking style that doesn't sacrifice the team's speed, puck control, creativity and forechecking,......a direction, in which, I believe, Perezhogin potential would have come to the fore and served us very well.

[OneSharpMarble]

Sidetracked - my comments were directed at your claim that Carbonneau has one year or he's gone?

You are the one who comes here and makes provocative statements more often than not, and claims to know exactly what Gainey's thought's are.....

Yes I believe he will get one more season, after that the media and fans will have had their fill and the whole rebuilding song and dance will be played out. Next season will need to pay off in dividends as BG has had alot of time to build this contender. I don't know what BG is thinking and I don't really care, he is just a man afterall, what I do care about is what BG does.

If you wish to make them then expect someone to react to them(and for the record it's not something I often do as it isn't worth the effort to argue!) You want to hand it out, but don't really like it much when someone disagrees? Piece of info for you - you aren't always right and your opinion isn't always going to be appreciated, liked or agreed with! Happens to all of us.....

I don't post to get affirmation, I post to voice opinion, if someone agrees thats fine, if someone argues that is to be expected alot of my opinions are against popular belief. You are the one taking offense and making this personal, don't tell me to clear my opinion with BG if he wants to walk in here and argue with me he is free to do so. If you read public forums expect people to post things you don't want to hear.

I disagree with your analysis, but you're entitled to it. So back up a bit and quit accusing me of over reacting!

I have enough trouble thinking for myself - I don't need any help from you or anyone else

As for being overly religious - give me a break. I am anything but a religious zealot?

You took insult to an offhand random analogy, sounds like someone is taking things a little too personally. But maybe this is just a misunderstanding, if you don't want to read what I have to say just block me, i'm sure you wouldn't be the first.

[beliveau1]

Yes I believe he will get one more season, after that the media and fans will have had their fill and the whole rebuilding song and dance will be played out. Next season will need to pay off in dividends as BG has had alot of time to build this contender. I don't know what BG is thinking and I don't really care, he is just a man afterall, what I do care about is what BG does.

I don't post to get affirmation, I post to voice opinion, if someone agrees thats fine, if someone argues that is to be expected alot of my opinions are against popular belief. You are the one taking offense and making this personal, don't tell me to clear my opinion with BG if he wants to walk in here and argue with me he is free to do so. If you read public forums expect people to post things you don't want to hear.

You took insult to an offhand random analogy, sounds like someone is taking things a little too personally. But maybe this is just a misunderstanding, if you don't want to read what I have to say just block me, i'm sure you wouldn't be the first.

I block few unless they are an absolute ass- just one here actually. As I said I sometimes agree with you, so no sense in blocking someone in that case = that would be very narrow minded, and I hope I'm not that shallow. I just ignore most opinions that I disagree with, or am not overly bothered/intrigued by. In most cases I just pass on them

As for caring what Gainey does then you have to care what he's thinking(the two go together as he usually does what he thinks?) But that's semantics I guess?

Probably a lot of people that block me too = their prerogative, right!

My problem was what I perceive to be the combative/antagonistic nature of your post that was accusing me of what/how I think. And I rarely take things personally - find that a waste of time more often than not? I was never saying you should not post your opinion, nor do I expect to agree with everyone. Life would be boring and unproductive if we all thought absolutely alike. Sometimes disagreement can be healthy..... but it is not when insults, etc get involved. If you made the analogy then you must have been thinking that - otherwise you wouldn't have gone there? I found the statement tasteless and unnecessary..... there was no need for it.

Personally I just find that most of your post grind an axe against coach's and management, when the real problem with this team lies with a clique of veterans that are causing problems in Montreal.

However that said I do not give management a free pass - they need to address the problems. And Carbonneau was a rookie coach who made rookie mistakes. Hopefully he'll grow and change this year so I'll give him a reasonable period of grace based on those factors. At least give him a chance to grow, and I will not claim that Gainey will react the way I'd say he should.

And I will point out that you need to listen to your own advice about people differing with another's opinion....

I did not react in a hostile or antagonistic manner to your original post. Or at least was definitely not meaning to? You tend to do just what you said I am guilty of far more often than necessary it seems. I disagreed with you and implied that Gainey probably would too? You took exception to that and reacted accordingly.

Do I always agree with you = no. Do I think this was a misunderstanding = no but then? Do I want to block you = no. Do I want you to insult my opinion = no. Do I want to insult your opinion = no. Will we always agree = no. Do I respect your right to an opinion = yes! I just expect some respect and no insults when I post mine, whether we agree or not. I have no hard feelings just because we don't see eye to eye - in fact there are times I am in total agreement with and value your input! We just don't see 100% eye to eye on this one?

Olive branch offered.... hopefully you'll accept, as I meant absolutely no ill will in expressing my opinion

(EDIT: just realized I need 100 more posts to hit the 1000 mark....) hockey: :hlogo:

Edited May 10, 2007 by beliveau1

[OneSharpMarble]

Heh well we successfully killed this thread, I really don't know what we were arguing and I don't feel that strongly about whatever it was so I am gonna call it a draw.

Lets just say that if BG gets Lacavalier he is a savior, if he gets Zubrus he is a goat.

[beliveau1]

Heh well we successfully killed this thread, I really don't know what we were arguing and I don't feel that strongly about whatever it was so I am gonna call it a draw.

Lets just say that if BG gets Lacavalier he is a savior, if he gets Zubrus he is a goat.

Zubrus - hmmmmmm. Neither here nor there on him at this point as it is just rumours. No use wasting energy getting worked up over that one just yet? However he is having a pretty good playoff run, so I will give him dues for that. Lecavalier is not a favourite for me so I'll leave that alone no matter what!

And yeah we kinda squashed this thread - a good hijack I'd have to say? Not sure if we were really arguing as much as ironing out some differences over the manner in which we were disagreeing....

Have a great evening and look forward to your next post whether we agree or not. :hlogo: :hlogo:

[ShortHanded]

Heh well we successfully killed this thread, I really don't know what we were arguing and I don't feel that strongly about whatever it was so I am gonna call it a draw.

Lets just say that if BG gets Lacavalier he is a savior, if he gets Zubrus he is a goat.

heheh... I keep coming back to check this thread bc I keep thinking ppl have more to say about Perogie, and then it's not about that at all... you guys really threw me off

Anyway, I'll agree with the Lecavalier/Zubie thing... I'd LOVE Lecavalier, and I'd CRY if we got Zubie, especially if he was expected to be one of our top line guys... It would be just like getting Kovy all over again (not for the work ethic bit, as I believe he works hard, but because his numbers this year are SUPER inflated based on his linemates... and I don't think he's anywhere as good as the numbers look right now.)

[habscout]

I'll wager that the $1.7M U.S. is for a 2 year contract. I don't believe that Alexei Morozov, who

was tearing up the RSL last season, was making that much money in one season there. I *really* question

that $3.4M figure. His agent must not know what the currency exchanges are if he thinks one can simply

double the American currency to calculate the Russian or Canadian currency. ;-)

Part of me is disappointed, because I had hoped Perezhogin would develop into more of an offensive

player. This season, he seemed to excel at times on the 3rd line, and at times he was excellent at

forechecking the opposition due to his quickness. However, I said "at times" because he was very

inconsistent in his play. At one time this winter, during a shootout, I remember Perezhogin winding up

for a slapshot and missing the net! How can a forward miss the net in a shootout?!?

The Habs must feel strongly about their other offensive oriented forwards [eg. A. Kostitsyn, M.

Grabovsky] that are closer to ready to not worry about Perogi. Maybe he will show up in the NHL again in the

future, but for the season or two we shouldn't bother thinking about him.

[beliveau1]

So, to get back on track

The Russian teams seem to be getting very aggressive in signing players - Gainey indicated that there is interest in signing Serghei Kostitsyn now. The lack of an agreement and their apparent greed is becoming a problem for the NHL - rumours suggest they want a million per superstar as compared to the 200 thousand per player average in the new settlement. If they can afford to pay what reports suggest for this guy, then NHL managers are going to have their hands full in a salary cap hindered NHL.....

I think it's going to get very interesting in the next while when it comes to Russian born players.....

Edited May 10, 2007 by beliveau1

[Chips]

The Russian's are trying to work the system and make as much money as possible. Can you really blame them? I don't but what will end up happening is exactly what they mention... we will sign players anyway without the russian teams getting a penny.

The sad thing here is that its the players that lose the most with this situation. All they want is to play... Those that want to play in North America will need to be careful not to sign with a russian team and should come over to north america and play in our junior systems at an early age.

By the way I don't like hearing the possibility of losing young Kostitsyn, Gainey better get on the horn and sign this kid up quickly...

Edited May 10, 2007 by Chips

[beliveau1]

The Russian's are trying to work the system and make as much money as possible. Can you really blame them? I don't but what will end up happening is exactly what they mention... we will sign players anyway without the russian teams getting a penny.

The sad thing here is that its the players that lose the most with this situation. All they want is to play... Those that want to play in North America will need to be careful not to sign with a russian team and should come over to north america and play in our junior systems at an early age.

By the way I don't like hearing the possibility of losing young Kostitsyn, Gainey better get on the horn and sign this kid up quickly...

I can't blame them either - but the bottom line is that it still is greed motivated..... gimme gimme!

I would hate to see this guy go given his potential, but it still is just unconfirmed potential at this point?

However one cannot simply lay the blame at Gainey's feet if this kid decides to sign in Russia - they look like they are offering some serious coin to play at home. That is going to be a hard signing inducement to beat.....

It still comes down to the simple fact that the player has to want to sign here no matter what you might offer?

Edited May 10, 2007 by beliveau1

[Mont Royale]

I *really* question that $3.4M figure. His agent must not know what the currency exchanges are if he thinks one can simply double the American currency to calculate the Russian or Canadian currency. ;-)

I think that it's intended to account for the tax rates here, which would be close to 50% for high income earners.

It still comes down to the simple fact that the player has to want to sign here no matter what you might offer?

True - which means it's not necessarily about greed. If offered equal money, I suspect most Europeans would choose to work closer to home, enjoying the language/culture they're used to. In Perezhogin's case, the team closest to home also happened to be offering much more money too, which I suspect made it an easy decision.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

This could become an unintended consequence of the salary cap: NHL teams having trouble attracting/keeping Russian talent in particular.

I support the cap, but this could become a serious problem going forward...

[saskhab]

Yeah, I'm wondering if Russia will become to hockey what Japan is to baseball. Russian players are going to have to make hard decisions with their contracts at young ages if they want to try the NHL. And the NHL is going to have to figure out whether huge transfer fees to Russian clubs will be cap exempt or not. MLB doesn't have this problem with Japan since there is no salary cap. Dice-K's negotation fee by the BoSox is just an example of a wealthy team able to win out because of their huge amount of disposable income. Unfortunately, Russian players don't have the same marketing benefits as Japanese players do for baseball.

[Easy Ryder]

It's not only the Russia and Perezhogin case that worries me much.

It's that we risk to lose Euro players that were cheap and bringing results to Elite leagues. Example ? Plekanek, Kots, Emelin.

If 1 miilion +/- players are going to play Europe instead of the NHL, it's gonna be hard for teams to fill the spot with quality players.

[JoeLassister]

This could become an unintended consequence of the salary cap: NHL teams having trouble attracting/keeping Russian talent in particular.

I support the cap, but this could become a serious problem going forward...

Maybe in 10-15 years, we will see some north american players sign contracts with Russian teams and not here in the NHL... That would open the door to a 2 leagues format. Screw some Nashville/Florida teams here and those players could boost some european teams. Maybe some owners will realise hockey isn't anymore an all american professional game... http://forums.habsworld.net/index.php?showtopic=11764

Edited May 10, 2007 by JoeLassister

[Prime Minister Koivu]

Maybe in 10-15 years, we will see some north american players sign contracts with Russian teams and not here in the NHL... That would open the door to a 2 leagues format. Screw some Nashville/Florida teams here and those players could boost some european teams. Maybe some owners will realise hockey isn't anymore an all american professional game... http://forums.habsworld.net/index.php?showtopic=11764

I can see the NHL being a world wide league someday. Or perhaps as you suggest with an NHL level European league and the NHL who then play a playoffs for the Stanley Cup.

:hlogo: champions of the WORLD

[dark_faerie87]

I can see the NHL being a world wide league someday. Or perhaps as you suggest with an NHL level European league and the NHL who then play a playoffs for the Stanley Cup.

:hlogo: champions of the WORLD

I'd love to see something like that. Maybe have like three leagues: North America, Western Europe and Eastern Europe (with maybe some Asian nations like China and Japan).

[Prime Minister Koivu]

Wow, it seems that it is possible we might loose both Kostitsyns too. :puke:

http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/news...060&k=34991

[Athlétique.Canadien]

Wow, it seems that it is possible we might loose both Kostitsyns too. :puke:

http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/news...060&k=34991

OK, I have to speak up on this. Everyone, take a deep breath and wait for it. Heck, 2 years ago we were worried weren't going to sign Kovy after the lockout, but we ended up doing so.

Now don't start about Kovy now. I'm making a point about THEN!

I have faith all will be well with the Kostitsyn's. We'll cross that bridge in time. Until then it's all speculation

Inhale - ahhhhhhhhhhhhh

exhale - ahhhhhhhhhhhhh

[dark_faerie87]

Wow, it seems that it is possible we might loose both Kostitsyns too. :puke:

http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/news...060&k=34991

To be fair, it only mentioned Sergei, but I don't like it nonetheless.

[Athlétique.Canadien]

To be fair, it only mentioned Sergei, but I don't like it nonetheless.

Remember - Inhale - ahhhhhhhhhhhhh. Exhale - ahhhhhhhhhhhhh