Assuming everyone here wants Lecavalier...

[MAK]

Grinders are third liners who don't contribute much offensively. Smyth is a 30 goal scorer and one of the league's best players in front of the net. I agree that we shouldn't give him some massive deal, but you're shortchanging him if you think he's just a grinder.

lets say you had 4.5 M to spend on a UFA, would you consider giving it to smyth rather than souray ??

I think smyth would be more useful than sheldon.

same leadership but more grit and better defensive awareness.

smyth could also help on PP.

[OneSharpMarble]

Grinders are third liners who don't contribute much offensively. Smyth is a 30 goal scorer and one of the league's best players in front of the net. I agree that we shouldn't give him some massive deal, but you're shortchanging him if you think he's just a grinder.

He is a grinder, a very very talented grinder that never says die. Don't get me wrong I liked the oilers and thought the world of their work ethic but Smyth isn't going to be a 30 goal scorer forever because his goals come from raw work. Once the years start to weigh on him he will go downhill fast.

lets say you had 4.5 M to spend on a UFA, would you consider giving it to smyth rather than souray ??

I think smyth would be more useful than sheldon.

same leadership but more grit and better defensive awareness.

smyth could also help on PP.

That changes the whole argument as I see Sourays defensive liabilities bigger than his offensive talents. I would much rather have Smyth for 4.5 (for a couple years, not like 6) than Souray. All I want from a Defenseman is good defensive skills with a good first pass, Souray has neither of these.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

You're going to get rid of Souray and bring in Smyth to 'help the PP?' Right - let's get rid of the LEAGUE'S MOST DANGEROUS PP DEFENCEMAN to help the PP. Also, let's get rid of our #2 defenceman (like it or not). That'll help our defence.

Then again, I don't subscribe to this 'Souray's mediocre defensive play means his 20 goals are worthless' logic. The same people would have driven Larry Robinson out of town - he made a lot of high-risk plays too, you know. Watch old footage, be horrified, and argue that we should have traded him for Wilf Paiment.

In any case, it's a moot point, GMs all over the league will be killing themselves to sign this superstar who gets 60 points a year. Forget it.

[OneSharpMarble]

You're going to get rid of Souray and bring in Smyth to 'help the PP?' Right - let's get rid of the LEAGUE'S MOST DANGEROUS PP DEFENCEMAN to help the PP. Also, let's get rid of our #2 defenceman (like it or not). That'll help our defence.

Then again, I don't subscribe to this 'Souray's mediocre defensive play means his 20 goals are worthless' logic. The same people would have driven Larry Robinson out of town - he made a lot of high-risk plays too, you know. Watch old footage, be horrified, and argue that we should have traded him for Wilf Paiment.

In any case, it's a moot point, GMs all over the league will be killing themselves to sign this superstar who gets 60 points a year. Forget it.

High risk plays? You mean when he stops moving and people skate around him like hes not there? Yeah I guess thats what you call high risk no reward. Getting rid of Souray means the other players have to step up on the powerplay, this does help because no longer can other teams zone in on Souray and kill our powerplay.

And if Souray costs us 30 goals and scores 20 thats not exactly wonderful. He isn't worth 5 mil when it all comes down to it, let some other nearsighted GM sign him and regret it.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

High risk plays? You mean when he stops moving and people skate around him like hes not there? Yeah I guess thats what you call high risk no reward. Getting rid of Souray means the other players have to step up on the powerplay, this does help because no longer can other teams zone in on Souray and kill our powerplay.

And if Souray costs us 30 goals and scores 20 thats not exactly wonderful. He isn't worth 5 mil when it all comes down to it, let some other nearsighted GM sign him and regret it.

First, he doesn't cost us 30 goals. The handful of high-profile massive brain cramps (e.g., his comical blunder on the famous Spezza goal) lead everyone to exaggerate. Yes, he gets us into trouble sometimes in our zone. Yes, he's ordinary with the outlet pass. He's a #3 or #4 defenceman who turns into a monster #1 defenceman for the PP. This is a hard player to assess for that reason, but it's a mistake to allow his weaknesses (which are significant but not catastrophic) to blind us to his massive strengths. I agree that we shouldn't overpay, but between 4-5 mil gives us a collossal asset on the PP in a specialty-teams league.

We had, what, the league's best PP? So that's the answer - blow it up.

[OneSharpMarble]

We had, what, the league's best PP? So that's the answer - blow it up.

And when his goals dry up because he isnt getting constantly set up for shot after shot will he still be worth that 5 mill?

We also had one of the worst 5 on 5. Yes dump him, then the rest of the team has to step up and not rely on him.

[Habitforming]

First, he doesn't cost us 30 goals. The handful of high-profile massive brain cramps (e.g., his comical blunder on the famous Spezza goal) lead everyone to exaggerate. Yes, he gets us into trouble sometimes in our zone. Yes, he's ordinary with the outlet pass. He's a #3 or #4 defenceman who turns into a monster #1 defenceman for the PP. This is a hard player to assess for that reason, but it's a mistake to allow his weaknesses (which are significant but not catastrophic) to blind us to his massive strengths. I agree that we shouldn't overpay, but between 4-5 mil gives us a collossal asset on the PP in a specialty-teams league.

We had, what, the league's best PP? So that's the answer - blow it up.

We don't agree often, but nicely put !

At the end of the regular season and now off season, Habs players and management have been saying endlessly that Shelly is a bigtime leader on and off the ice for this club. So why is everyone willing to spend $4-$5M on Smyth for his 60 points and leadership and yet would rather keep the money then sign Souray for his 60+ points and leadership. There is a reason 29 other GM's want this guy....WAKE UP PEOPLE!!

Smyth would give us a guy to make hell for other goalies, but Souray gave us the leagues best powerplay (over some powerhouse western teams as well) almost single handedly, and was part of the NHL's best PK until the half way point of the season (we all seem to forget that one).

Yes Souray has some defensive issues (they are exaggerated though) but that part of the game can be learned, his PP work and scoring (shootouts included.. ha ha Raycroft!) is something you can't teach.

Souray and Markov should be back in Montreal at all costs....then see what's left for UFA's and trades

Edited May 14, 2007 by Habitforming

[Mont Royale]

\

I would never disagree with this, saku is a great player and the most inspirational player I have ever known of. However, would it not of made sense for him to take the first half of the season off and come back fully healthy? This must have been know about pre season. If it can be operated on now and be fully better for Sept., couldn't it have been done in Aug. with him returning in Jan.? team saves 2,2 vs cap, preseason!! That is big shopping money, that would have landed Shanahan at 5m instead of Samsanov at 3.5. Hind site? Maybe on my part, but the captain and GM knew back then, and a fully healthy Koivu would have probably close to matched his total half healthy stats in the back half of the season.

How wacko is that thinking?

It's very "unique", I'll say that!

First you described him as dead weight that should be moved out so the kids could play. Now, you say he should have had surgery later, so he could miss more of the season, giving us cap room to get a better player.

You are assuming that the story about Shanahan turning down a better offer from Montreal because he wanted to play in NY is false. You are also assuming Koivu was not fully healthy at the start of the season; as far as I know, he was (his eye will never be as good as it was, but it was as good as it was going to get).

Most importantly, the reason why teams sign players like Koivu is so they can play hockey, not so they can be paid by insurance while recovering. Having surgery later and missing half the season makes no sense, because his play had value throughout the season. Either he's a player worth keeping or he's not - if not, get rid of him and free up the whole $4.5 million cap space. If he is, schedule surgery in the off-season so he can play. Seems like an obvious point, no?

[PB]

And when his goals dry up because he isnt getting constantly set up for shot after shot will he still be worth that 5 mill?

We also had one of the worst 5 on 5. Yes dump him, then the rest of the team has to step up and not rely on him.

As CC pointed out, teams in this league, no matter what, will only be as good as their PP and PK

alowed them to be.

Thats actually the only beef a had towards Carbonneau as a coach this season, we had the most

efficient PP in the league yet he failled to capitalised on it when he imposed a system of play that undermined

speed and forechecking......the two very aspects that lead the highest amount of penaltys being taken in the league.....having the most efficient PP is one thing but creating PP opportunitys is another,....Carbo's system lead the CH to have one of the fewest amount of power play oppotunitys in the league....that is for me the

only reason why we didn't make the playoffs.

Anyway, PP efficienty matters big time in this league where the parity is real, its getting harder and harder

for the teams to win only because they have better 5-on-5 and a better overall roster.........BUFF possessed

an incredible amount of talents on its four lines yet they are strugling with their PP.......where you to add a

Souray in their PP mix......they would simply would have been unbeatable and the books would have long been closed.

Edited May 14, 2007 by PB

[InsaneHABSfan]

When does Lecavalier become a free agent? Would it not be smart to stay the course of the youth movement then try and sign him down the road as a UFA to add to the good players on the team. If Montreal wants this guy and it is going to cost.

No way trading Price is going to help the Habs. I do not believe any of the existing goalies are cup contender goalies for this team. I am in hope Carey will be that guy as he grows into the habs system. And again that is just my opinion and I am-a-stickin-to-it. :hlogo:

Edited May 14, 2007 by InsaneAVSfan

[Athlétique.Canadien]

Back to Smyth for a sec here. It would not surprise me if we sign Smyth. In doing so we could do to the Leefs what the Rangers did to us with Shanny (rumour has it the leefies are sniffin' around). As long as it's a 2 year deal I'd be happy. No more than 5 million per.

Having said that it'll be difficult to manage the cap/money with Smitty signed at that amount.

Regarding Lecavalier, waiting for him to become a UFA is a good idea. Only trouble is the cost but could it possibly be worse than as it stands now?

Edited May 14, 2007 by ATHLÉTIQUE.CANADIEN

[Chris]

The Habs CAN NOT afford a player like that. They have 7 million sitting around on 2 Russians they have to get off the books before you see anyone signed.

This team is not 1 player away. They probably aren't even 1 player away from just making the playoffs.

There needs to be an attitude adjustment first. Playing 20 minutes a night just doesn't cut it.

[Athlétique.Canadien]

The Habs CAN NOT afford a player like that. They have 7 million sitting around on 2 Russians they have to get off the books before you see anyone signed.

This team is not 1 player away. They probably aren't even 1 player away from just making the playoffs.

There needs to be an attitude adjustment first. Playing 20 minutes a night just doesn't cut it.

Doubt Kovy is going to be off the books. Gainey indicated so unless the situation deteriorates any further - (if that's possible)

Edited May 14, 2007 by ATHLÉTIQUE.CANADIEN

[mathieu30]

Assuming everyone here wants Lecavalier..

I'd rather have Garon :ninja:

[InsaneHABSfan]

The Habs CAN NOT afford a player like that. They have 7 million sitting around on 2 Russians they have to get off the books before you see anyone signed.

This team is not 1 player away. They probably aren't even 1 player away from just making the playoffs.

There needs to be an attitude adjustment first. Playing 20 minutes a night just doesn't cut it.

Yup! What you said. This team has a few holes to repair over the next two years before anyone takes them seriously. There is a good foundation on the wings and talent prospect wise on defense and in net. I am looking forward to some of the young guys to crack the lineup and Montreal to build a foundation.

Cannot think like Leafs/Rangers quick fix. It does not work....Looking forward to the Leaf 41st anniversary of useless hockey teams.

[Chris]

Yep, I was hoping that Gainey could make it happen a year or 2 sooner but the core / vets really has been letting the team down.

I am excited about the youth and the talent, but like you said it's 2 years away.

The good news is they should get some top 10 picks the next 2 years.

[beliveau1]

Yep, I was hoping that Gainey could make it happen a year or 2 sooner but the core / vets really has been letting the team down.

I am excited about the youth and the talent, but like you said it's 2 years away.

The good news is they should get some top 10 picks the next 2 years.

People always seem to forget the hard and lean years that many teams go through in order to end up with a ton of talent - Pittsburgh is a prime example, as were the original Islanders teams. Buffalo is a great example of that today - there were a lot of lean and dismal years for Sabres fans that have culminated in what they have today. Patience is a virtue - the question is are Habs fans willing to wait?

[Chris]

Very True, the problem has been for last 10 years before BG they would just trade the youth for garbage vets. Alot of teams have done that and I am glad Gainey is NOT going to do that.

Obviously every move Gainey has made hasn't been the best but i like what he is doing.

[BTH]

I agree with all those saying that we MUST re-sign Souray. After, Markov, he should be our #1 priority.

Ryan Smyth would be a welcome addition but would he really be better than Drury? At the deadline, Smyth was pressing Lowe for $5.5M which is too much, I think.

As for the Habs not even being a player away from the playoffs...

[saskhab]

As for the Habs not even being a player away from the playoffs...

Yep. That 2 points will be impossible to make up next year.

Problem is, we should've done better this past year than just make the playoffs. Even if we had grabbed the last spot, I'd still consider the season a disappointment.

I don't know why people rule out the chance for a "quick fix" (i.e., a player so good we're 4-5 spots ahead in the standings next year) as well as a long term solution at the same time. Luongo and Pronger were had last year. They both get 4 seasons for their new teams.

If Vancouver could trade Cloutier away then we sure as hell can find some takers for some of our salaries if it helps us better structure ourselves salary wise.

[JMMR]

Don't know how much Sabres hockey you watched this year but they play just 20 minutes on a very regular basis. When the lose one of Briere or Drury next year it will hurt them in the standings.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Yep. That 2 points will be impossible to make up next year.

Problem is, we should've done better this past year than just make the playoffs. Even if we had grabbed the last spot, I'd still consider the season a disappointment.

I don't know why people rule out the chance for a "quick fix" (i.e., a player so good we're 4-5 spots ahead in the standings next year) as well as a long term solution at the same time. Luongo and Pronger were had last year. They both get 4 seasons for their new teams.

If Vancouver could trade Cloutier away then we sure as hell can find some takers for some of our salaries if it helps us better structure ourselves salary wise.

I tend to agree with your first two points. On paper, this team was substantially better than it showed on the ice. One problem was the catastrophic flu attack. Another was the injury to Huet, which cost us a few games before we settled on Halak. But the most fundamental issue was what Gainey called an 'imbalance' in the team - the well-documented reliance on specialty teams (especially PP).

Was that a result of poor talent? I don't know; the players that all had horrendous +/- this season have not been that bad in the past. I think something was wrong, first, with the chemistry - too many players waiting for Kovalev to step up, too many players willing to coast on an insane power play rather than work their asses off for 60 minutes; and second, with the coaching - there was an adjustment period all around.

But they've had one year to get used to carbo and he's got a year of experience under his belt. Next season should see young vets like Higgins, Komisarek, Pleks, hopefully Markov step up, and Kovalev step back, as leaders on the team (they tried deferring to their so-called 'core' leaders last season and I think they've learned their lesson - witness Higgins's slagging of Kovy on the last day of the season). And the team as a whole, i think, got schooled in the facts of life: they CAN'T rely on half-efforts all season and then count on a successful last-ditch push to make the playoffs. It worked once, so they tried that and it blew up in their faces.

So I expect to see a team more fully behind Carbo next season and a team culture fundamentally driven by the young players loyal to Carbonneau. And also, hopefully, a reasonably healthy team.

Does this mean that they don't need an upgrade in talent? Of course they do. They still need a #1 C and a #1A defenceman before they have a hope of winning a semi-finals series. But the point is that were they to acquire even one of these, I would not be surprised at ALL to see them suddenly vault into the top 10. Maybe I'm dreaming, but we were in the top-10 until January...there's a lot of variables, but it's entirely possible IMHO.

Edited May 15, 2007 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber

[Chris]

Man, don't you guys get tired of making excuses for this team. They didn't make the playoffs because you don't play games on paper. This is a simple problem, this team has made it 3 times in the last 8 years or something, always excuses.

Problems:

1. No effort, No character or leadership.

2. Too small, too soft too slow.

3. Defense is pathetic at best.

4. No offense 5 0n 5.

Good News:

PP looked good.

Until the team has a major overhaul, they aren't going anywhere.

[InsaneHABSfan]

Man, don't you guys get tired of making excuses for this team. They didn't make the playoffs because you don't play games on paper. This is a simple problem, this team has made it 3 times in the last 8 years or something, always excuses.

Problems:

1. No effort, No character or leadership.

2. Too small, too soft too slow.

3. Defense is pathetic at best.

4. No offense 5 0n 5.

Good News:

PP looked good.

Until the team has a major overhaul, they aren't going anywhere.

Don't agree with the too slow/No effort parts unless you are talking about defencemans decisions in their own end. It seems like they ae confused behind their own net on what to do with the puck.

A little more offensive help in the playbook would make this team better. Playing consistant defensive style is not helping this teams speed advantage over slower teams. This years 5 on 5 play was most disappointing for me.

[Chris]

This is an arguement i have heard alot. Who is actually fast?

Pleks

Higgins

Lapiere

Begin

Dandenault

Markov is a good skater, but not fast.

There is no one else on the team who pull away from other players, make things happen with there speed.

So I'll stick to as a team not very fast.