Jump to content

Souray weighing contract offer from Habs


kaos

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 339
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

I'm a cynic for the most part...but I hope all these talks of wanting to stay is more than just PR. I know lots go into a contract decision; location, money, direction of the team. I just hope Souray can see the potential in the Habs and want to be part of something great, instead of following a paycheck. Whos to say we wouldn't do that? If he does leave you can't fault him, but people everyday would leave one job for another if it had better pay.

I hope Souray accepts the contact and its in the 4 - 4.5/year range, as much as people make light of his +/- and his defensive gaffs, we still have much trouble scoring last year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Really have to admit that I have mixed emotions on this?

On the one hand I realize how much his offensive contributions are needed in the new NHL. However his defensive liabilities(which are not as exaggerated as some tend to claim) give me cause for concern when one looks at the salary cap aspect the Habs have to contend with.

If signed then Gainey definitely has to move some contracts if he wants to upgrade this team behind the blueline. I am definitely glad that I am not in his shoes right now..... whatever he does someone is bound to be howling at him in either French or English the moment he announces it!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

He did have the third worsed plus minus in the league for defensemen.

You can't exxagerate that.

I have said it all along, he is GONE.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

He did have the third worsed plus minus in the league for defensemen.

You can't exxagerate that.

I have said it all along, he is GONE.

Actually, he was the worst. Only Lupul and Umberger were worse, both are forwards.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

He did have the third worsed plus minus in the league for defensemen.

You can't exxagerate that.

I have said it all along, he is GONE.

In reality plus minus is an overrated and useless stat - agents and sports media people love it.

However it is a truly deceiving stat in many cases.

A player can have a superb game and be on the ice for the only goal in a 1-0 loss, when you outplayed & out shot the opposition all night long.

You walk away from the game minus 1 - does that mean you stunk the joint out?

Coach's have learned to put that stat into perspective when analyzing a players contributions and performance when all is said and done.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In reality plus minus is an overrated and useless stat - agents and sports media people love it.

However it is a truly deceiving stat in many cases.

A player can have a superb game and be on the ice for the only goal in a 1-0 loss, when you outplayed & out shot the opposition all night long.

You walk away from the game minus 1 - does that mean you stunk the joint out?

Coach's have learned to put that stat into perspective when analyzing a players contributions and performance when all is said and done.

I actually think +/- is a valuable stat. But thats just my opinion. You can't look at it on a a game by game basis because then you are right I think it doesn't tell the whole story. But when you look at it after a certain period of time I think it can reveal a lot about a players value.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well i wouldn't say it's useless. Especially in Souray's case. He had like 5 goals even strength, the majority of his points were when his team had the advantage. When even and shorthanded are added in you'll see how useless he is.

I also realize it's not all one person fault you get a minus. But you can't pay 4-5 million for the worst plus minus defense (i stand corrected) or a PP specialist. He is totally one demensional.

He'll take the money and run.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just don't want a Bryan McCabe situation in Montreal. It is a very similar situation of a good PP player with a good shot. But when that goes cold or missing what is there to fall back on. Defenceman need good fundamental defenceman skills and if they don't have that it is not worth spending a ridiculous amount of money on them. Goals will come and go, but good fundamental defence skills need to be present at all times in order to really give out the big money. This is why Markov should be paid more then Souray.

Edited by Habsfan24
Link to comment
Share on other sites

In Souray's case, it's an accurate reflection of his defensive game: poor. He wasn't the only on, though, only a half dozen Habs were worth anything at even strength.

Sorry but I disagree strongly - I've been involved in charting this and other stats for a long time at several levels. It is not an overall indicator of that.

It usually reflects a teams play when a player logs average plus minutes on any given night. Exceptions do occur from time to time on a game to game basis, but not truly on a season wide basis. We could go into a myriad of situations and scenarios that result in a minus being attributed to a player on the ice who had absolutely nothing to do with a goal being scored, yet he has to be deducted as such. However arguing this stat is usually an excercise in futility as we have been lulled into believing it's real credibility. Coach's look at the number, but they want to further understand why the numbers are skewed, or if they are accurate?

A far more reasonable stat is to log overall ice time for such players and average the number of goals scored. It has its' own set of flaws but it is a better indicator of how many times a player is involved. Personally I always preferred giveaways and a count of defensive lapses that result in goals scored (or even scoring chances) when a player is on the ice.

However I do have some issues with his defensive play - not as much as some do, but I still have issues....

p.s. then one has to say that a goalie on the a bad team who faces a high shot ratio night after night and has a high Goals Against Average is no good - the perspective for certain stats has to be judged accordingly....

Edited by beliveau1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Geez I hope some team steps up and offers him 6.5million or something so Gainey doesn't even get the chance to shackle us to this guy. Once other teams really key in on him his offense will be with his defense and we will be stuck with the tab. :(

Link to comment
Share on other sites

At this point, there is no way I want Souray back. He's gonna total cap constrain us and we're gonna have no chance at all of landing a Drury, Briere, or Smyth. I'd rather get a cheaper, more reliable D-man at a reasonable price and make a serious run at a star forward. I honestly think losing Souray would end up having little effect on our PP. Yes, he was awesome there, but there were times when it seemed like the rest of the unit was just sitting around waiting for Souray to take a shot. Without him, everyone would be trying to make something happen and they'll end up creating more chances. Especially if they get a Briere or Drury to help make things happen.

Basically, we need our D-man to concentrate on their own end and our forwards to step up and do the scoring.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Koivu had a very high ratio of PP points and sucked 5-5 this year. So is Koivu a one dimensional power play specialist?

Souray is not a top defensive, stay at home defenseman, no question. However, the price of a offensive defenseman who can make or break your PP is over $5M. If we had a decent stay at home defenseman (say, Beauchmen), then Souray would not have to play 20 plus minutes of 5-5 hockey and his defensive liability would be limited.

If we lose Souray, I suspect our PP is going to tank and the point production from the back end will suck.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

At this point, there is no way I want Souray back. He's gonna total cap constrain us and we're gonna have no chance at all of landing a Drury, Briere, or Smyth. I'd rather get a cheaper, more reliable D-man at a reasonable price and make a serious run at a star forward. I honestly think losing Souray would end up having little effect on our PP. Yes, he was awesome there, but there were times when it seemed like the rest of the unit was just sitting around waiting for Souray to take a shot. Without him, everyone would be trying to make something happen and they'll end up creating more chances. Especially if they get a Briere or Drury to help make things happen.

Basically, we need our D-man to concentrate on their own end and our forwards to step up and do the scoring.

The total cap constraining aspect is what bothers me about Souray and what he brings to the table for the money it's going to cost - much more of me hopes that he walks rather than stays.....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Koivu had a very high ratio of PP points and sucked 5-5 this year. So is Koivu a one dimensional power play specialist?

Souray is not a top defensive, stay at home defenseman, no question. However, the price of a offensive defenseman who can make or break your PP is over $5M. If we had a decent stay at home defenseman (say, Beauchmen), then Souray would not have to play 20 plus minutes of 5-5 hockey and his defensive liability would be limited.

If we lose Souray, I suspect our PP is going to tank and the point production from the back end will suck.

Newsflash! The whole team sucked 5 on 5!

Koivu cannot carry this team all the time and it bothers me when people think he should. Souray can barely be allowed to be called a defensman, and a defensman that carries a price tag higher than $5million had better damn well be playing 20mins a game and not a defensive disaster. You pay that kinda cash for a single player he should be able to do more that swing a stick while everyone makes the play around him and covers for his screwups.

If we sign Souray our team will be just as bad as last season, eeking it out in 8th place, poor offense while everyone just passes it to Souray. if we don't sign him our PP will adapt and probably be mid field but out 5 on 5 will improve drastically if we get a key forward.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Excellent. I'm glad that BOb is on top of this with an offer so quickly. We should soon know the score on this. If it's a generous offer and he is genuine about the Habs, he need not take 31 days to decide. I say give it a week and if there's no activity; likely means no Sheldon for us.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I too have mixed feelings. I'm a HUGE Souray fan - for me his offensive assets, size and leadership easily compensate for his mediocre defensive play; but I increasingly wonder if it wouldn't be better to spread that money around. Say he's gonna sign for $5.5. Take $3 mil of that and acquire a reliable, competent puck-moving defenceman, either through UFA or trade; and pour the rest of it into your pool for signing the stud C this team desperately needs.

Of course this is a higher-risk strategy (who says you're going to be able to find that elusive mid-range defenceman, or sign the C?). And that's why Bob prefers to sign Souray, I'm sure. But it might result in a superior overall team.

One thing I notice is that we tend not to think in terms of trades. Bob could sign Souray and then deal him as part of a package for that stud centreman, for instance. Or he could improve the team through deals rather than UFA signings. Given Montreal's difficulties in attracting free agents, perhaps Gainey needs to be more aggressive on this front.

Edited by The Chicoutimi Cucumber
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Update: La Presse suggests Souray could receive a salary close to $5.25 million per season. Also, Gainey indicated Monday that the Habs aren't likely to offer Souray an annual salary as high as Markov's $5.75 million.

http://www.cyberpresse.ca/section/CPSPORTS01

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Update: La Presse suggests Souray could receive a salary close to $5.25 million per season. Also, Gainey indicated Monday that the Habs aren't likely to offer Souray an annual salary as high as Markov's $5.75 million.

http://www.cyberpresse.ca/section/CPSPORTS01

Good that Bob has accurately assessed Markov as more valuable than Souray and (according to this) has no plans to deviate from that assessment in negotiating with Souray. But #44 will easily surpass $5.25 mil on the open market. My sense is that this is the beginning of the end of Souray's tenure in the CH. Which just goes to show, he should have been dealt at deadline day last season, as I and many other people argued at the time. Oh well, easy come easy go...

Edited by The Chicoutimi Cucumber
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why offer where there is no hope? Is this about Public Relations? I doubt the Canadiens would offer Souray something they KNEW WAS hopeless.

We are going to find out soon what all the innuendo is about regarding his new restaurant and his new Montreal home. Is he blowing hopeful wind out of his rear? Or do we have a chance?

We won't know until it's over.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Koivu had a very high ratio of PP points and sucked 5-5 this year. So is Koivu a one dimensional power play specialist?

Souray is not a top defensive, stay at home defenseman, no question. However, the price of a offensive defenseman who can make or break your PP is over $5M. If we had a decent stay at home defenseman (say, Beauchmen), then Souray would not have to play 20 plus minutes of 5-5 hockey and his defensive liability would be limited.

If we lose Souray, I suspect our PP is going to tank and the point production from the back end will suck.

Yes, but the truth is we can't afford both Souray, and a decent stay at home defenseman. If we keep him, we won't have enough to seriously upgrade the D in anyway, and even with his PP contribution, we weren't anywhere good enough on D this year... He'd have to keep playing the 20 minutes 5 on 5, and, I predict, keep sucking during them... You're right, he's AWESOME on the powerplay, and I really like the guy, but considering all our priorities, maybe if we got a Decent D who could make GOOD OUTLET PASSES (don't have to be as good as Markov's) we'd have two D's who could help transition our game to Offense. I seriously think a huge part of the problem with our poor play 5 on 5 is that we have such a bad transition game. A better transition game (achieved a la "more D who can make that outlet pass") could lead to better scoring 5 on 5, and then combined with the fact that you have to minus all the goals scored on Souray at even strength (since we replace him with a D who has a better defensive game), we make up for the points he brings us on the power play by scoring more 5 on 5... Who is this D? I don't know, probably a less pricy UFA D, or better, some one in a trade...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.



×
×
  • Create New...