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Pierre the Great

"Reasonable Accommodations" Discussion

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Most people are some what racist but use better judgement and are understanding and welcoming. Especially in smaller communites.

As for Polls I always give skewed answers to mess with the results. ;)

Edited by JMMR

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I'm living in Montreal, and i have to consider myself a racist because i' against, and really pissed off by, anyone who will want to introduce any form of their own religion in any aspect of life (sports, social, government, education, name it). Here, it's now considered as a form of racism. So be it, i'm racist. I assume it and will ever do so.

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there's a good line in the article for you Joe:

(This last incident had newspaper columnists writing themselves into a lather about the demise of Quebec's secularism -- with a few notable exceptions. "Are Francophones, who form 88 per cent of the Quebec population and control its institutions, so fragile that their identity is threatened because pork is prohibited in a kosher cafeteria in a Jewish hospital?" wrote La Presse's Lysiane Gagnon.)

Couldn't say it better myself.

ITS A JEWISH HOSPITAL PEOPLE

If you have unprotected sex in saint louis with a girl or the condom breaks, you won't be given emergency contrecption at a CATHOLIC hospital because its CATHOLIC.

Same can be said for secular hospitals.

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there's a good line in the article for you Joe:

Couldn't say it better myself.

ITS A JEWISH HOSPITAL PEOPLE

If you have unprotected sex in saint louis with a girl or the condom breaks, you won't be given emergency contrecption at a CATHOLIC hospital because its CATHOLIC.

Same can be said for secular hospitals.

yep, exactly this is a shame. i'll never accept that NEVER. Religion is the worst plague of the history of the humanity, even worse than the diseases.

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it maybe but you can't make laws to curb it, people have freedom to practice whatever they want, whether it be in a mosque, church, synagogue, temple, or a tree.

Basic human rights you know. Your being judgemental, and proving the writers point. You think Quebec culture is going to die tomorrow because somebody can't have pasta at a jewish hospital. That's a very small world view. I'm sorry you feel that way.

Remember this, "the more things change, the more they stay the same"

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I seriously doubt that the racism in Canada is as sever and as dangerous as in the States. From the feedback I see here so far it seems that a lot of it is minor intolerance.

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it maybe but you can't make laws to curb it, people have freedom to practice whatever they want, whether it be in a mosque, church, synagogue, temple, or a tree.

Basic human rights you know. Your being judgemental, and proving the writers point. You think Quebec culture is going to die tomorrow because somebody can't have pasta at a jewish hospital. That's a very small world view. I'm sorry you feel that way.

Remember this, "the more things change, the more they stay the same"

Not liking some aspect of ONE religious groups beliefs being imposed on society does not make you a racist. I live in a Muslim country, I have Muslim friends and colleagues. I have not problem with Muslims, but I do have a problem with Canada allowing veilled women to vote. Even at Middle Eastern universities veilled women must reveal themselves to a woman invigilator before they are allowed to write exams. I also have a problem with the use of Sharia law in Canada-- a revolting idea which has since been abandoned. Thank God ^_^

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I'm living in Montreal, and i have to consider myself a racist because i' against, and really pissed off by, anyone who will want to introduce any form of their own religion in any aspect of life (sports, social, government, education, name it). Here, it's now considered as a form of racism. So be it, i'm racist. I assume it and will ever do so.

That doesn't make you racist.

It's more of a hatred of religion in my opinion.

By that standard, you should be deadset against the Ontario government which funds Catholic schools.

Still, you can sense the nasty undercurrent of racism behind some of the hyperbole coming out of Quebec these days. Some Canadians won't admit it, but they don't like it when they see people of colour behaving in a certain way. They'd like them to behave like "Canadians" - if only we could ever agree on what that means.

It's silly. Yeah, immigrants should leave behind archaic practices. But they can feel free to practice whatever religion they want, so long as they don't expect everyone else us to. And that goes for everyone, too.

Edited by smon

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That doesn't make you racist.

It's more of a hatred of religion in my opinion.

By that standard, you should be deadset against the Ontario government which funds Catholic schools.

Still, you can sense the nasty undercurrent of racism behind some of the hyperbole coming out of Quebec these days. Some Canadians won't admit it, but they don't like it when they see people of colour behaving in a certain way. They'd like them to behave like "Canadians" - if only we could ever agree on what that means.

It's silly. Yeah, immigrants should leave behind archaic practices. But they can feel free to practice whatever religion they want, so long as they don't expect everyone else us to. And that goes for everyone, too.

:puke: even teaching religion courses make me puke. Imagine teaching creationism, and now imagine teaching creationism in a school funded by the government :puke: :puke: :puke:

but men, how could it be worse than that ; this is the VERY FIRST LINES of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms :

Whereas Canada is founded upon principles that recognize the supremacy of God and the rule of law:

Rights and freedoms in Canada

1. The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society.

2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:

a) freedom of conscience and religion;

B) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;

c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and

d) freedom of association.

etc

It is written BEFORE the *$&$ing the 1rst one !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :puke:

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I don't think I can get involved in this discussion without going off on someone, and I don't even consider myself to be that religious. Thus, I'll try to keep this brief and level headed. Not being religious is one thing, but bashing religion in general is total BS. Religion does far more good than it does bad. The only problem with religion is the fanaticism, but fanaticism in any form leads to bad things. Most religions teach tolerance, a practice many non-religious people should consider.

By the way Joe, your argument about Creationism is way off base. First of all, the Catholic Church teaches that the creation story is symbolic, not literal, so Creationism is not a part of Catholicism. Second, in science classes in Catholic schools they teach evolution. Also, if Ontario is anything like the states, the government isn't paying for the religion classes and material, they only fund non-religious courses.

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Good post, Fanpuck33.

I must say i agree. Although i am not a practicing Catholic, i must give praise to religion for teaching people good values. Although religion has done immense damage in many ways, i think we'd still be slaughtering each other over sheep if it weren't for religion. Don't go to hard on it. There are fanatic atheists too, let us not forget!

As for the subject at hand, i've travelled the USA a great deal (including to states such as Texas and Louisiana) and i find that not only is racism in those areas pretty mild (at least compared to what i was expecting), most people are pretty tolerant. Maybe i was just lucky.

In Canada, i've never in my 23 years seen an act of racism due to skin color. Not once. No joke. I have asian neighbors on one side and black neighbors on another and never seen a thing. My black neighbors come over in the winter and help me shovel my snow and vice versa. I mow their lawn sometimes, sometimes they do mine. They talk to me (the white european), the asians, anyone really. They're also very well educated, intelligent and pleasant people, contrary to what many American stereotypes would say. So i don't know what the fuss is about, but in these parts, everyone gets along pretty well and i love it. (At least... as long as you don't bring up the separation question, then the debates heat up with no holds barred...)

I love Canada :can: :clap:

Edited by Cataclaw

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I don't think I can get involved in this discussion without going off on someone, and I don't even consider myself to be that religious. Thus, I'll try to keep this brief and level headed. Not being religious is one thing, but bashing religion in general is total BS. Religion does far more good than it does bad. The only problem with religion is the fanaticism, but fanaticism in any form leads to bad things. Most religions teach tolerance, a practice many non-religious people should consider.

By the way Joe, your argument about Creationism is way off base. First of all, the Catholic Church teaches that the creation story is symbolic, not literal, so Creationism is not a part of Catholicism. Second, in science classes in Catholic schools they teach evolution. Also, if Ontario is anything like the states, the government isn't paying for the religion classes and material, they only fund non-religious courses.

Prononcing the word "creationism" in a school is already too much for me...

Don't know the Ontario situation, i wast just reacting to Smon's post.

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Prononcing the word "creationism" in a school is already too much for me...

Don't know the Ontario situation, i wast just reacting to Smon's post.

I generally agree with you on the Creation issue, but I must say that allegorical treatments of the creation story don't bother me that much. In Jewish school (a pretty damn liberal Jewish school), I was taught that the creation story was written so that we all would see a common ancestor - that one person might not say "my Adam is greater than your Adam." This makes a lot of sense considering that once in Nod, Cain found a wife from what we assume must have been another tribe. Considering that the next section of the bible concerns the children of God coming down to earth, cohabitating with human women and producing demigods and heroes... I think this interpretation is fair.

I guess if people want to have a religious creation AND a scientific creation, it's ok. I also don't might people who think that God was the catalyst that started the Big Bang or even that God was the Catalyst for the first biological entity from whence all evolution flowed. Frankly, albeit my atheism, I find the idea of an artistic and efficient God beginning the Universe's history with a single act of force quite beautiful and elegant. I still don't believe it, though...

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Real racism is systematic caste systems that setup both hard and soft rules to keep other races down and prevent giving them equality of oppurtunity, also real racism would be outright racial violence. Canada has no real racism, except maybe those government programs which keeps poor black not working and on welfare, living in government housing ghettos in certain large canadian cities.

Fake racism is a modern liberal twisting of the concept. There is a liberal concept out there that all cultures are of equal merit and we are not allowed to make judgements on them, anyone pointing out a culture's shortcomings is labeled a racist. Certain cultural groups are excepted as they are unfashionable, christians are fair game, but watch out if you start pointing out the shortcomings of islam. Likewise, anti-semitism runs rampart in the halls of the liberal bastion that is the united nations, but its a crisis of racism when some punk kid leaves a noose on a door down the road at columbia university (not much hysteria about the swastikas also found in the washrooms there).

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define "liberal" dh because I can give you countless of people who would never say the word "liberal" and believe in multi-culturalism.

anti-semitism runs rampart in the halls of the liberal bastion that is the united nations

liberal bastion?

lets see who ratified the UN Charter first

Republic of China- lol right wing autocratic conservative government. yup they were lefties all right

soviet union- stalin, he was no trotsky

UK- Churchill mr. lets use machine guns on protesters yup he's a liberal

France- De Gaulle lol no liberal there

US- Truman (he was no FDR, heck he signed up for the KKK as a kid, typical missourian)

I fail to understand your reasoning as the UN a "liberal bastion" somebody has been drinking too much rush limbaugh kool aid. ;)

and anti semitism, really? do you even know what that is? Understand the Israel conflict before you start shouting out big words. What Israel has been doing with the separation of the Palestinian people is cruel. Now at the same time I don't see anyone on the left congratulating suicide bombers.

I'm going to use your terms here. Since you said now that if you say anything bad about an ethnic group you are a racist. So I guess the same applies to the jewish population as well. I can't say anything bad about the country of Israel? Do I hate jews, no. Do I think the Israel government does bad things, yes. Do I support Hamas, no. I support peace, not walls, check points, helicopter missiles, west bank settlements, suicide bombers, and militias.

And by the way Palestinians are semitic as well. So in reality if you are hating on Palestinians you yourself are anti semitic.

Edited by Pierre the Great

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Nice to see we have managed to get both politics and religion into a single thread here.

By the way the Habs just beat the Bruins 6-1.

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Prononcing the word "creationism" in a school is already too much for me...

How ignorant would we all be about the world around us if we didn't learn about the beliefs of various religions? I mean, over 85% of the world belongs to some sort of religious group. Everyone should study the world's major religions. Catholicism, other Christian groups, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, even Agnosticism and Atheism (Not an exhaustive list, just the biggies off the top of my head). Religion is a huge part of the anthropology of any group of people. Learning about the beliefs of others, no matter how "dumb" they sound to you can only serve to help. Personally, I think a "World Religion" course should be standard in any school. Nothing preachy about it, not trying to recruit kids, not trying to tell anybody what to believe, not trying to say one religion is better than another. Simple sociology and anthropology. Education breeds understanding, understanding breeds tolerance, tolerance breeds better relationships with our fellow man.

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How ignorant would we all be about the world around us if we didn't learn about the beliefs of various religions? I mean, over 85% of the world belongs to some sort of religious group. Everyone should study the world's major religions. Catholicism, other Christian groups, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, even Agnosticism and Atheism (Not an exhaustive list, just the biggies off the top of my head). Religion is a huge part of the anthropology of any group of people. Learning about the beliefs of others, no matter how "dumb" they sound to you can only serve to help. Personally, I think a "World Religion" course should be standard in any school. Nothing preachy about it, not trying to recruit kids, not trying to tell anybody what to believe, not trying to say one religion is better than another. Simple sociology and anthropology. Education breeds understanding, understanding breeds tolerance, tolerance breeds better relationships with our fellow man.

I am aware that my words are exceeded because it's way too late now, but I think that if the religion had never existed, the world would be way less alienated. I believe that religion is the very first source of block as regards the evolution of the personal thoughts, the technology (we killed scientists because of religious beliefs) and the opening to the others. Historically, religion is maybe the element who braught the most intolerance between people, the thing who braught the more deaths, may i say unnecessary deaths.

Yes the religion teaches us of beautiful values such as the family, the condolence, the dedication, etc. But the religion also helps to divide people, thing innaceptable for my part.

I shall stop here, without even approaching the "institutional" side of the religion and the economic aspect of the creation of the religion because we could hijack this thread during days...

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define "liberal" dh because I can give you countless of people who would never say the word "liberal" and believe in multi-culturalism.

anti-semitism runs rampart in the halls of the liberal bastion that is the united nations

liberal bastion?

lets see who ratified the UN Charter first

Republic of China- lol right wing autocratic conservative government. yup they were lefties all right

soviet union- stalin, he was no trotsky

UK- Churchill mr. lets use machine guns on protesters yup he's a liberal

France- De Gaulle lol no liberal there

US- Truman (he was no FDR, heck he signed up for the KKK as a kid, typical missourian)

I fail to understand your reasoning as the UN a "liberal bastion" somebody has been drinking too much rush limbaugh kool aid. ;)

and anti semitism, really? do you even know what that is? Understand the Israel conflict before you start shouting out big words. What Israel has been doing with the separation of the Palestinian people is cruel. Now at the same time I don't see anyone on the left congratulating suicide bombers.

I'm going to use your terms here. Since you said now that if you say anything bad about an ethnic group you are a racist. So I guess the same applies to the jewish population as well. I can't say anything bad about the country of Israel? Do I hate jews, no. Do I think the Israel government does bad things, yes. Do I support Hamas, no. I support peace, not walls, check points, helicopter missiles, west bank settlements, suicide bombers, and militias.

And by the way Palestinians are semitic as well. So in reality if you are hating on Palestinians you yourself are anti semitic.

You forget the role played by a number of people, including Lester B. Pearson, who were quite liberal. The United Nations is most certainly a very "liberal" institution. Sometimes to it's detriment.

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I think this thread is officially hijacked. I'll see if I can inject some of the initial intent back into it.

The politics discussed has little to do with bigotry or racism.

Disliking religion does not make you a racist.

I personally believe that EVERYONE has some varying degree of racism in their belief structure. It may not mean you openly despise or hate a race, or even culture or religion. You may be a very tolerant person who enjoys a joke or simply doesn't want to see your daughter or son get involved in a relationship because they will be alienated or isolated...all the while you may have good friends of the same cultures.

Racism, bigotry and prejudice are born out of fear. Fears that we all suffer from to varying degrees. Sometimes those fears are founded and based in truth...unfortunately no one wants to hear that. Sometimes those fears have created the truth. Sometimes the fear is irrational and causes the worst forms of racism...sometimes it's more rational.

There are no absolutes. Whether that's discussing the subject of one's race/class/religion or even discussing the level of one's racist/prejudiced tendencies.

Just my opinion.

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I think this thread is officially hijacked. I'll see if I can inject some of the initial intent back into it.

The politics discussed has little to do with bigotry or racism.

Disliking religion does not make you a racist.

I personally believe that EVERYONE has some varying degree of racism in their belief structure. It may not mean you openly despise or hate a race, or even culture or religion. You may be a very tolerant person who enjoys a joke or simply doesn't want to see your daughter or son get involved in a relationship because they will be alienated or isolated...all the while you may have good friends of the same cultures.

Racism, bigotry and prejudice are born out of fear. Fears that we all suffer from to varying degrees. Sometimes those fears are founded and based in truth...unfortunately no one wants to hear that. Sometimes those fears have created the truth. Sometimes the fear is irrational and causes the worst forms of racism...sometimes it's more rational.

There are no absolutes. Whether that's discussing the subject of one's race/class/religion or even discussing the level of one's racist/prejudiced tendencies.

Just my opinion.

yeah, there's a difference between disliking and not accepting. but for my part, i dislike it and i don't accept it, be it religion from other cultures or even my culture. I hate catholicism as much as islam or budhism...

And here in Québec now, saying openly and publicly that you dislike and not accept religion is now viewed as a form of racism.

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