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Evaluating Our Assets


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The habs do have a center similar to koivu. Pleks has very similar numbers this year.

The Habs need 3 things to make the playoffs.

Scoring: A RW to complete the top line. Kovalev to stay interested. 3rd and 4th line contributing when they can. Currently not happening consistantly.

Learning to win: This team has had the lead in 12 games this year after 2 and they only have 9 wins. (i think that's what they said Saturday). This is a process that younger teams need to do before they become consistant winners. Plus this team has no winners on it. Great teams try not to win 1-0. When they get 1 they smell blood and make it 4-0. Not sitting back waiting to win 1-0.

They need to continue to stick up for eachother, don't get pushed around, show up every night every shift. This is much better then last year but they can still work harder.

Assests on this team is the youth, defense and goaltending. Lats, Lapierre, Gorges, Chipchura, kosty, Grabovski will all be up and down due to age and inexperience. Price I'm not worried about, he seems solid, consistant. not streaky at all.

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I understand what you are saying. But my point of view is that Gainey is building this team like the Devils and Stars.

Gomez lead the Devils with 70 points in NJ 2000 Cup run. They again won the Cup in 2003 with Gomez and 50 points. Modano had only 81 points in the Stars 1999 Cup run.

So I think they can win it with Koivu as a number 1. When this team wins it all, it will be defense with timely scoring and All-Star goaltending.

Well, I can see us winning with two Koivu's. :) Like I said, I don't mind the 1a /1b strategy, in fact, it is often better since you have more depth.

I don't see Pleks as our 1b guy right now. I know everyone loves him around here, but he is still performing in the middle of the 2nd line center pack. Last year he was 52nd. Its hard to say if he is going to keep getting better, or if this is Pleks at his peak.

My dream is to have Pleks as our 3rd line guy, behind Koivu and another top center (Briere would have been nice, if small). We would be like last year's Buffalo, or maybe even this year's Sens. We would only need good goaltending, not awe inspiring goaltending to win. :)

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The habs do have a center similar to koivu. Pleks has very similar numbers this year.

The Habs need 3 things to make the playoffs.

Scoring: A RW to complete the top line. Kovalev to stay interested. 3rd and 4th line contributing when they can. Currently not happening consistantly.

Learning to win: This team has had the lead in 12 games this year after 2 and they only have 9 wins. (i think that's what they said Saturday). This is a process that younger teams need to do before they become consistant winners. Plus this team has no winners on it. Great teams try not to win 1-0. When they get 1 they smell blood and make it 4-0. Not sitting back waiting to win 1-0.

They need to continue to stick up for eachother, don't get pushed around, show up every night every shift. This is much better then last year but they can still work harder.

Assests on this team is the youth, defense and goaltending. Lats, Lapierre, Gorges, Chipchura, kosty, Grabovski will all be up and down due to age and inexperience. Price I'm not worried about, he seems solid, consistant. not streaky at all.

I agree with most of this, except Pleks. He is still not a point per game player, but he is doing well. Time will tell on him, but I don't see him as our number 1b guy anymore then I saw Ribs as an equal to Koivu.

I still think we need a real top talent guy on this team. Either another center, or a winger. We certainly have the young guns coming up, although to be honest, I don't see a Briere, Crosby, Staal, Toewes, etc in our current crop. Someone may surprise us however and really break out at some point. Even Briere was a surprise at one point. :)

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If you can't tell, I like this thread. :)

Here is some really interesting stats..

If you look at the PPG stats last year and this year, you see a lot of consistency. For example, Koivu is on a .94 point per game pace this year, last year he was .93. Most of the other top players are similar. Crosby was and is around 1.5 PPG.

One guy who has made a huge improvement is Ribs, but you have to keep in mind that last year he was playing on the 3rd line. This year he is on the first line and its he has stepped up. His PPG this year is at 1.21. I don't expect it to hold, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a significant improvement in his PPG if he remains on their top line and gets the ice time.

Pleks is showing good improvement in his PPG pace this year. He is definitely benefiting from Kovalev playing better, but at the same time, he was dragged down last year by Sammy and Kovy. If we can find a consistent winger for that line I would expect Pleks to stay on pace this year. He has jumped from .58 to .8 PPG so far. That is a nice improvement!

Brindamour is 3rd so far this year and pretty close to Crosby. He did pretty well last year too, but not quite this well.

Anyway, one thing I love about Koivu is consistency. His PPG averages have always been around .85 to .95. His point totals are almost directly tied to his health.

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STOP HIJACKING MY THREAD!

:P

brobin, that's 4 posts in a row - are you takling to yourself?

Well sometimes its the only way to get an intelligent conversation going. :P

Actually, I could have made it one thread, but I was poking around the old NHL stat machine. :)

As for hijacking your thread, I am giving you data points to "Evaluate our Assets". ^_^

Too many people here seem to ignore what are guys really do and base their assessments on what they hope they will do.

No habs player in ages has broken the PPG barrier. Don't just compare our guys to each other, but to their peers. Koivu needs to be compared to his peers around the league, but more importantly, while we rave about Pleks, Higgens, etc, we need to compare them to other teams young guns to see where we will be in the coming years.

If people did that I think they would have a far more accurate view of where the Habs are and where they are going.

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Well sometimes its the only way to get an intelligent conversation going. :P

Actually, I could have made it one thread, but I was poking around the old NHL stat machine. :)

As for hijacking your thread, I am giving you data points to "Evaluate our Assets". ^_^

Too many people here seem to ignore what are guys really do and base their assessments on what they hope they will do.

No habs player in ages has broken the PPG barrier. Don't just compare our guys to each other, but to their peers. Koivu needs to be compared to his peers around the league, but more importantly, while we rave about Pleks, Higgens, etc, we need to compare them to other teams young guns to see where we will be in the coming years.

If people did that I think they would have a far more accurate view of where the Habs are and where they are going.

i understand where you are going but don't fully agree with you. It all depends on the system your team plays.

THe Devils have had 2 seasons since their first cup in 1995 where they have a PPG player in their lineup. They have missed the playoffs once in that time frame. The Stars have averaged over 105 points a season in the last 10 years and other than Modano barely scraping 80 points per year do not have any high impact scorers.

Those 2 teams make up 3 of the last 8 Cups. Gainey built those Stars teams. The teams that best resemble the system that originated out of Montreal are these 2 teams. I tend to look at how these teams accomplished their goals when I look toward the Habs future.

The Habs are building from the back end out and are demanding defensive discipline.

It is great to assemble a lineup of fantasy players, but it is not necessary to win in the NHL.

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i understand where you are going but don't fully agree with you. It all depends on the system your team plays.

THe Devils have had 2 seasons since their first cup in 1995 where they have a PPG player in their lineup. They have missed the playoffs once in that time frame. The Stars have averaged over 105 points a season in the last 10 years and other than Modano barely scraping 80 points per year do not have any high impact scorers.

Those 2 teams make up 3 of the last 8 Cups. Gainey built those Stars teams. The teams that best resemble the system that originated out of Montreal are these 2 teams. I tend to look at how these teams accomplished their goals when I look toward the Habs future.

The Habs are building from the back end out and are demanding defensive discipline.

It is great to assemble a lineup of fantasy players, but it is not necessary to win in the NHL.

Well, I agree you can win without top offensive talent, but history says you signficantly increase your odds. :)

I don't think our defense is good enough to win like the devils. Most importantly, I don't think you win with our 5-5 record. One big solution to this is to get someone who can score 5-5 with more regularity.

When the Stars won, they had Modano and he was in his prime. NJ had players who would be a PPG in another system. I don't think it is our defensive system stifling our players. :)

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Well Brobin, i respect your opinion, but i disagree with it. I still consider Koivu first-line material. Not elite first-line material, mind you, but 1st line nonetheless.

I can agree with that. I am just saying we either need to get another Koivu, or someone even better to go with him. We are not going to be a top team if our number one is at the low end, the number two is at the low end, the number 3.. etc.. that is not depth.

Of course, if we had a world class winger (Ovechkin maybe ;) then Koivu is certainly good enough to be PPG guy playing with him. :)

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I just finished watching an interview done with Carey Price on RDS. If I didn't know that Price was 20 years, I would have sweared that he was 30. He's really mature for his age, it's ridiculous. At 20 all I thought of was chasing skirts(still do ;) ) and partying all the time :clap: !!

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I just finished watching an interview done with Carey Price on RDS. If I didn't know that Price was 20 years, I would have sweared that he was 30. He's really mature for his age, it's ridiculous. At 20 all I thought of was chasing skirts(still do ;) ) and partying all the time :clap: !!

Yeah, I just watched the same interview. It's amazing, really. Very down to earth as well, but I think he was being falsely modest when he flat-out said he would never be a Hall of Famer or be as good as the guys he's being compared to. I think he should have stuck with "I haven't achieved anything yet" and stuff like that.

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Well, I agree you can win without top offensive talent, but history says you signficantly increase your odds. :)

I don't think our defense is good enough to win like the devils. Most importantly, I don't think you win with our 5-5 record. One big solution to this is to get someone who can score 5-5 with more regularity.

When the Stars won, they had Modano and he was in his prime. NJ had players who would be a PPG in another system. I don't think it is our defensive system stifling our players. :)

I am thinking ahead. McDonagh, Subban, Valentenko, O'Byrne, Emelin will make out D solid for years to come. Carey Price, well do I need to say anything about this kid? With the youth comes cap space, with cap space comes either a Free Agent or a trade where we can take back a big salary.

So I am not writing of the possibility of this team being as good as the Devils or Stars in the next 2 years.

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I am thinking ahead. McDonagh, Subban, Valentenko, O'Byrne, Emelin will make out D solid for years to come.

My guess is that a few of these names will be traded away. 4 years from now our Defensive corps should look like this:

Markov-Komi, Valentenko-Yemelin, O'byrne-Mcdonough

The others might be traded away for a porwerforward which we desperately need!

Edited by Habsfan
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My guess is that a few of these names will be traded away. 4 years from now our Defensive corps should look like this:

Markov-Komi, Valentenko-Yemelin, O'byrne-Mcdonough

The others might be traded away for a porwerforward which we desperately need!

I was pointing out that with a solid 3 of Markov, Hamrlik and Komisarek that only 3 of those mentioned needs to step up. Fischer, Subban and O'Byrne could be total busts and it still leaves a very impressive group.

Markov/Komi

Hamrlik/Mcdonagh

Valentenko/Yemelin

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I was pointing out that with a solid 3 of Markov, Hamrlik and Komisarek that only 3 of those mentioned needs to step up. Fischer, Subban and O'Byrne could be total busts and it still leaves a very impressive group.

Markov/Komi

Hamrlik/Mcdonagh

Valentenko/Yemelin

I agree with you, but I really want to see O'Byrne make it. We could sure use another Big guy out there with Komisa-REX.

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I was pointing out that with a solid 3 of Markov, Hamrlik and Komisarek that only 3 of those mentioned needs to step up. Fischer, Subban and O'Byrne could be total busts and it still leaves a very impressive group.

Markov/Komi

Hamrlik/Mcdonagh

Valentenko/Yemelin

By the time those rookies have any impact, IF ANY, Hamrlik will be gone, Markov will likely be gone and Komi may very well be gone...unless these guys are all still on the team 6 years from now...

How many d-men have any sort of impact as an NHLer before the age of 25-26?

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By the time those rookies have any impact, IF ANY, Hamrlik will be gone, Markov will likely be gone and Komi may very well be gone...unless these guys are all still on the team 6 years from now...

How many d-men have any sort of impact as an NHLer before the age of 25-26?

I would expect Markov to play the nex 7-10 years in Montreal.

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By the time those rookies have any impact, IF ANY, Hamrlik will be gone, Markov will likely be gone and Komi may very well be gone...unless these guys are all still on the team 6 years from now...

How many d-men have any sort of impact as an NHLer before the age of 25-26?

I disagree. Markov could very well still be a habs in 7 years from now. That would make him 35 and Komisarek would be 32, right in his prime! These two d-men aren'T going anywhere for a LOOOONNNNGGGGGGGG time!

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By the time those rookies have any impact, IF ANY, Hamrlik will be gone, Markov will likely be gone and Komi may very well be gone...unless these guys are all still on the team 6 years from now...

How many d-men have any sort of impact as an NHLer before the age of 25-26?

Hamrlik has 3 years left on his contract after this season.

Emelin was projected to make the team if he came over. Unfortunately he did not.

Even if he didn't I don't think he is 3 years away from being a 5-6th d-man

McDonagh has had scouts saying that he may be ready to make the jump next season, even if he did not he would still have 2 years to make the NHL after next season. If he does, placing him with Hamrlik would be the perfect place for him (see Phaneuf)

So that would leave Valentenko. He would have to spend 4 years in the AHL not to join this group.

They are not all going to peak together, but the possibility exists that the Habs will be able to retain a really solid

defence without paying out there nose in the next 4 years.

Plus I originally mentioned 6. I used those 3 as an example if the other 3 did not make the cut. But you could easily toss O'Byrne in the mix and remove one of the other 3. You think Rhino Burn is 3 more years away?

Nobody is expecting 6 impact defencemen. But in the salary cap era you excel by getting more production than what you are paying for. If Emelin can do an equal to better job than Bouillion for a 3rd of the price I consider that making an impact.

Right now, who is not earning their salary?

Latendresse, Ryder? Every single other player is playing above or equal to their salary. That is how you win in the NHL today.

Edited by Wamsley01
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Its not all about points, but over time it is telling. A number one lines should consistently produce offense. They should also be reasonable defensively.

I don't think we can win the cup with Koivu as our number one center anymore, unless we had another Koivu level guy as the 1a/1b thing. I do think Koivu would be a key guy for this team, but he doesn't need to be number 1 to do it. Leadership, grit, and inspiration can come from a 1b or number 2 center. I don't want to trade Koivu for one of those guys, I want Koivu AND one of those guys. Call me greedy. :)

You made a damn nice list of guys nobody would trade straight up for Koivu.

They had a 1a and 1b situation when they aquired Doug Gilmour for the playoffs. They eliminated Boston, but then lost the next round I think to Tampa Bay (correct me if I'm wrong).

We need a better center than Koivu, along with Koivu to win the stanley cup. We are also badly needing a RW.

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