Koivu slumps

[SAKS-AVENUE]

I guess Carbo is also losing patience with Saku. Tonight Koivu will start the game centering the 3rd line between Smolinski and Streit.

About damn time...

Why does it have to be about losing patience. Maby Koivu is hurt or feeling sick today. This way Carbo can cut his minutes back, just like he's carrying 8 defenseman to help Markov out. He's hurt.

[SAKS-AVENUE]

wow, Koivu on the 3rd line. That's a surprise. Poor ol' Koivu, age and injuries are catching up with him a little but you know what I think is a major factor in his malaise this year? He's fed up with losing and spinning his wheels. The man wants to win a Stanley Cup so bad with the Canadiens and he just feels things aren't getting any closer. It's like he's almost given up in disgust. I can understand how he feels.

He's second in team scoring, having a decent season so far. He's had a couple of unproductive games and you make it sound like he wants to retire? How goofy is that.

[Canajun]

It's not goofy at all. He's given his heart and soul to this team and I'm sure he feels like he's just spinning his wheels. Don't you remember back during the off-season when he explicitly said he did not want to be part of another rebuilding program? The man is discouraged.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Right. I don't want to sound like I'm obsessed with Marleau. I haven't seen him play much, frankly. But at face value, a fit is there. San Jose are contenders. I'm sure they'd love to acquire Koivu, who adds huge value to a team of that profile - he could push them over the top. And I notice several posts commenting that Koivu is getting old, etc., etc.. That's kind of my point - it might be time to consider moving him for a younger player who at least has a credible chance of offering us several seasons as a #1C or a #1A guy (as Koivu is). Sentimental value is great, but that's not how you build a winner, and besides, such a trade would give him a real chance to win a Cup, which we are not likely to do with him as our #1 guy. It would be good for him. And waiting around for a UFA signing is unwise - who knows which #1C-calibre UFAs will be around?

Koivu's window is closing. We need to seriously think about the ramifications of that IMHO.

[smon]

The power of Habs fans thoughts!!! No wonder no one wants to play here.

Quite condescending language...

It's an accepted fact that all players slump at some point in their careers. Heck, even Gretzky and Lemieux can't score every single game, or every single week. Even Sidney Crosby was in a goal scoring slump at the start of this year.

If you don't know that players slump, you're hardly a sports fan, let alone a hockey fan.

I'm hardly criticizing Koivu or Marleau, but you obviously missed the point of my post

Right. I don't want to sound like I'm obsessed with Marleau. I haven't seen him play much, frankly. But at face value, a fit is there. San Jose are contenders. I'm sure they'd love to acquire Koivu, who adds huge value to a team of that profile - he could push them over the top. And I notice several posts commenting that Koivu is getting old, etc., etc.. That's kind of my point - it might be time to consider moving him for a younger player who at least has a credible chance of offering us several seasons as a #1C or a #1A guy (as Koivu is). Sentimental value is great, but that's not how you build a winner, and besides, such a trade would give him a real chance to win a Cup, which we are not likely to do with him as our #1 guy. It would be good for him. And waiting around for a UFA signing is unwise - who knows which #1C-calibre UFAs will be around?

Koivu's window is closing. We need to seriously think about the ramifications of that IMHO.

I don't know, I'd like to believe that there's still time yet.

Look, if the team is on the outside looking in come trade deadline, then yes it could be a possibility. But only, and I stress this, if the Canadiens were recieving one heck of a deal. None of that trading Vinny Damphousse for a second round pick kind of crap.

Even then, I would strongly question the value of such a move. It's got high risk spelled all over it, and if it misfired would probably end Gainey's career with the Habs.

I sincerely doubt that he would attempt anything like that.

[sbhatt]

Aside from a nice move in the shootout, he looked pretty much useless again tonight against the Preds.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Quite condescending language...

It's an accepted fact that all players slump at some point in their careers. Heck, even Gretzky and Lemieux can't score every single game, or every single week. Even Sidney Crosby was in a goal scoring slump at the start of this year.

If you don't know that players slump, you're hardly a sports fan, let alone a hockey fan.

I'm hardly criticizing Koivu or Marleau, but you obviously missed the point of my post

I don't know, I'd like to believe that there's still time yet.

Look, if the team is on the outside looking in come trade deadline, then yes it could be a possibility. But only, and I stress this, if the Canadiens were recieving one heck of a deal. None of that trading Vinny Damphousse for a second round pick kind of crap.

Even then, I would strongly question the value of such a move. It's got high risk spelled all over it, and if it misfired would probably end Gainey's career with the Habs.

I sincerely doubt that he would attempt anything like that.

First, I'm talking Koivu for Marleau - a significantly younger, bigger player who, from a distance anyway, has the credentials to suggest he can be at least as effective offensively as Koivu. I agree that Koivu should never be dumped for picks or whatever.

Second, what may be separating me from some on this issue is that I remember Kirk Muller. He was a terrific #1 C for us, a blood and guts leader, amazing passer, physically tough, inspirational - he did everything Koivu does out there and more. But he got real old, real fast - dropping from a PPG player to a 40-point grinder basically overnight. That's probably because his body took a lot of punishment due to his style of play. And I saw close up what happens when a team's #1 C *suddenly* loses it. Two years after winning the Cup we missed the playoffs, for the first time in ages, mainly because Muller had tanked.

Fortunately the wily Serge Savard was able to package him in a trade for Turgeon. Unfortunately there aren't too many Mike Milburys around these days. No one's going to trade a Marleau for a Koivu who has clearly and obviously broken down.

If we allow Koivu to remain our main man until his body gives out - and I maintain that we may be witnessing the beginning of that process - then what? There is no elite C prospect in the system. UFAs are elusive at best. Apart from untradeables like Price, Higgins, and Komisarek, Koivu is our highest-value asset. It may be time to think about using that asset to try and secure the future of this team instead of crossing our fingers and hoping he can play another four years at peak performance.

Edited December 2, 2007 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber

[KoZed]

Hum... Koivu has a NTC... he'd have to waive it before we can think of trading him.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Hum... Koivu has a NTC... he'd have to waive it before we can think of trading him.

I believe he'd waive it to play with his pal Rivet in the sunshine on a Cup contender. Wouldn't you?

[Cataclaw]

Koivu will be staying in Montreal, and rightfully so.

:hlogo:

[lazy26]

Koivu needs a better wingers than Smolinski and Streit to break out of this slump. For the billionth time, I wonder why they won't put him and Kovalev together.

[BTH]

If this team wants to get better, there is nothing we can do about it right now. We can hope Koivu snaps out of his slump and we can hope they stop dropping third period leads. But there will be no Marleau riding in on his white horse. If we want a high profile player, we'll have to wait until the offseason, let Ryder go and hope that we can sign an upgrade.

As of right now, Koivu isn't playing well enough and Kovalev has been the real leader of the team this season. Second best, that's not good enough for Koivu. He has to be the one we count on, he has to be the one leading by example and even killing those late-game leads.

The fact is that this team needs Koivu to be better and that Koivu can not sit around waiting for the rest of the team to play well. If that's the case, then what is he wearing the C for? No excuses are good enough. It happens every year. If Koivu isn't going to lead this team now, maybe he never will and it's frustrating to watch a talented team struggle every year because the captain they look up to is in a slump. So, Mr. Koivu, redisover that will to win and start winning some damn hockey games for us!

If not him, then who?

If not now, then when?

[Dirty Harry]

I think Koivu had a decent game, not great, but he was buzzing around the zone in solid control of the puck, setting up streit and smolenski. They got their chances but couldn't bury them. The real test will be in the coming games whether these two wingers will be able to bury some goals, cuz if theyre cement handed ontop of being marginal everywhere else, theyre really deadweight.

[Nesquik]

Koivu is getting old and you see this from all old player whey they start sucking. Like it or not, Koivu is getting worse and worse everyday. And it's not by changing wingers that would make him a 50 goal scorer.

[Cataclaw]

Koivu is getting old and you see this from all old player whey they start sucking. Like it or not, Koivu is getting worse and worse everyday. And it's not by changing wingers that would make him a 50 goal scorer.

Yeah.. that's why he had a career-best season just a few months ago.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Yeah.. that's why he had a career-best season just a few months ago.

So far, we have people saying either that they love Koivu too much to ever part from him, or else that Koivu will live eternally and that his skills will never, never, ever degrade. But unless he's some sort of genetic miracle we still need to ask what this team plans to do when Koivu DOES degrade. Use Plekanec as our #1C? Hope like hell that a UFA will miraculously materialize? People have got their heads buried so far in the sand on this issue, it's unreal. We could be looking at another decade of garbage unless we address the glaring organizational hole: the total lack of a Koivu replacement.

And then we have people saying Koivu has no trade value right now. Give me a break. This guy *is* the missing piece to any hungry Cup contender. A proven playoff performer and an inspirational leader. He is the single most valuable asset we have, apart from untouchables like Price. His NTC could surely be waived under the right circumstances; he wants to win.

I brought up Marleau because the fit just seems to be obvious there. A contender, unhappy with the slumping Marleau, looking for that extra ingredient; a team with Koivu's best friend on it; a team that Gainey has done business with before. Even the salaries are probably a manageable match.

[simonus]

just for info:

Marleau has 3 years left (including 07-08)

07: 4.2mil

08: 6.3

09: 6.3

Koivu has 2

07, 08: 4.75

[BTH]

Cucumber, the Habs will just have to start drafting high potential centers in the draft. The 08 draft is supposed to be a great class, it would be a good year for us to trade up and nab an offensive centre. We already have Plekanec, Chipchura, Maxwell, Fortier and White in the system and all five seem like they could be #2 or #3 centers in the NHL. (There's also Grabovski but let's just forget about him). Of course, none of these guys can be #1 centers (with a slightly possible exception of Plekanec) so if we really want one, and we do, we'll just have to draft more talented and offense-oriented players. Koivu is still a few more years away from retirement. The guys we draft in the 2008 draft could very well be on the team in time to start taking the torch away from Captain K.

But if we're really that worried about replacing Koivu, the easiest way is to just sign or trade for another 1st line centre. If we trade Koivu straight up for Marleau, we still have only one #1 centre, and we're still going to have to start looking for replacements within the next couple of years - Marleau is only a couple of years younger than Koivu. We should definitely start trying to find someone else, but using Koivu in a trade to get that someone else seems to defeat the purpose of the trade.

I think Gainey really wants to add a high-profile player but we have no one that he is willing to give up for him. That's why he's been waiting for the UFA period every year and keeps throwing around the big dollars then. But he may be realizing that, until we prove that we can compete, the star players may not want to come here all that much.

Option 1: As we did last draft with defenceman, go crazy with offensive centermen this draft.

Option 2: Continue throwing top-dollar contracts at free agent centers, especially the ones in their 20s.

Option 3: Seek a trade for a proven #1 C that doesn't force you to give up an important member of your core. (no one said it was easy)

If any one of these three options works out, we'll be fine, though option 1 should be done in any case, and in addition to that, Gainey should try bringing in another centre via UFA or trade. The first choice is not really optional at all. Stocking your system through the draft is a duty, not a right - if you don't do it, your team will not succeed, even if you sign every FA on the market.