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Election Thread: Canada |TBA or October '09|


Pierre the Great

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Sorry Pierre but we are in Afghanistan because we are a NATO member country and the UN asked NATO and Canada to intervene in Afghanistan. Yes, the UN. We are under the NATO banner but it was a response to the UN. I love to remind people of this and especially when they say "we should be in under the UN banner". Well, we are.

Moving on to todays news:

Here is a perfect example of a party losing clout with me. This is yet another example that makes me roll my eyes and draw the conclusion for the 1,000th time that they are totally silly. Not like they ever will garner my respect anyway but when they pull this fleabag nonsense it just makes me cringe. You will NEVER get me voting NDP as long as they continue with this type of "rubbish".

http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/283086

I guess their saving grace is that when the NDP do this type of foolishness no one really notices or forgets because as far as they go; it's common to them. Sometimes I wonder if they believe in, "bad publicity is better than no publicity at all". I'm certainly not surprised. NDP wants to be taken seriously? Well, try being "serious" :blink:

Regarding the environment. Harper is shrewd and cunning. I can't believe I didn't see this coming. The Conservatives have goofed around with the question and have demonstrated little to no leadership on it. I'm starting to believe this is by design. That is, Harper was waiting for the heat of an election before revealing his plan. I should have known they had an ace up their sleeve. The appointment of Pierre Marc Johnson and the Bernard Lord appointment didn't just occur right now out of coincidence. I'm not going to be surprised if Harper has more sneaky ideas that he's sitting on right now.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/071203/...n_tories_bali_1

It wouldn't surpise me if they come close to doing something major or they announce a plan within the next 2 months. I suspect it'll be "smoke and mirror" policy that is impossible to achieve but sounds good. Barring that, it wouldn't surprise me if there is an itemized list of "what to do" as damage control before the election.

Edited by Athlétique.Canadien
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non-story. I've seen much much worse and this is politics. Its never nice.

This is kids play in terms of bad. No it would be a story if the girl in question was of a different race and she commented on that. Then its a story.

how many goofy stories do the liberals have that get glazed over by the media?

And Conservatives and there penchant to put their names on hate group lists?

Not saying what the ndp member did was right, she should of kept the comment to herself and talked to the mp outside the house of commons, unless Harper really does put all his members on quarantine and never let them talk to anyone or go outside. I'm sure this could of been talked over with coffee.

Edited by Pierre the Great
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c'mon Harry and Zowpeb, I can't speak for other NDP-type guys, but I think I'm a relatively productive guy. I'm not poor and I'm not sitting on a huge trust fund. I don't want (or need) a ton of entitlements and I'm not particularly guilty about my earning potential or inherited wealth. I'm in my later 20's and I don't feel any pull to the right. I'm finishing up at a top tier law school and I have pretty decent job prospects. I want children and I want them to live comfortably. I'm not completely anti-capitalist and I don't want to live on a commune. I just think that a left wing government is a better way to run things.

Wait until you're income is better and you get to see people abuse the health care, welfare, EI, and THOUSANDS of other social programs designed to re-distribute the money you work hard for to people who either won't, or can't, do what you do.

If you have the talent, ability, skills and/or work ethic to earn a large pay cheque then why should you be expected to support someone who has less talent, ability, skills and/or work ethic???

I'm not trying to sound shallow but the fact remains that our social programs are designed to prop up many people who do not take advantage of their opportunities through poor work ethics, poor efforts and, as a result, are poor people. Hey, I fully realise that many people are in their situation because of bad luck, lack of opportunity, or just aren't smart/skilled enough and that many still work hard. I have no problem helping out people in that situation. I have no problem with publicly funded health care BUT I also don't understand why a privately run(and regulated) tier is such an evil. I don't understand the need for thousands of programs...there should be less then 100. It is absolutely INSANE that we employ tens of thousands of people in the EI beauracracy. Further, why in the world do we give foreign aid to countries that spend hundreds of millions, to billions, on their military. Trudeau and Mulroney ruined this country by raising the bar on what people actually think they deserve and expect. If people don't like their lot in life they should get up and work hard. Instead, we have people who say, "no, I'm going to go and get something from the government." And to top it off they feel entitled to it and blame "rich" people(who are often simply middle to upper middle class people) for not paying enough taxes. Then I get to listen to trumped up statistics on poverty from charitable organizations that have pay 75% of their donations to administrative costs and salaries. Statistics on poverty that are not based on costs of living or standards of living. I can 100% guarantee you that there are people you know abusing the system blatantly. How many students took government loans but didn't need to? How many people are on welfare that don't need it? How many people arrange to earn EI? Did you know that in Newfoundland, before they changed the EI system, that they would actually "share" a job so that everyone would work for 10 weeks and collect EI for the next 42 weeks? Did you know that, 15 years ago when NFLD was doing quite poorly, they had more people owning their property and homes outright then any other province? Yet they received more hand-outs then any other province...THAT'S the kind of generational mentality you get when you start giving people something for nothing.

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Wait until you're income is better and you get to see people abuse the health care, welfare, EI, and THOUSANDS of other social programs designed to re-distribute the money you work hard for to people who either won't, or can't, do what you do.

EI is still heavily abused, they now give EI to off-season people who choose to be seasonal workers. So Ski bums who work as a ski guide/instructor during the winter can collect EI during the summer. I've known some ski bums who worked in whistler during the winter, but during the summer they busted their asses working in the fields as tree planters. Well if they wanted, they could've just sat around for a few thousand less dollars and collected govt cheques.

The problem is that the government of Canada collects WAY too much money from our paycheques for the EI fund. The surplus right now is 54 BILLION dollars, ridiculous!!

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The problem is that the government of Canada collects WAY too much money from our paycheques for the EI fund. The surplus right now is 54 BILLION dollars, ridiculous!!

Dump that on the federal debt. Sooner we pay that off, sooner we can really dump money into whatever we want.

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If the Conservative party was smart and forward thinking they'd win election after election if they went the way of the right of centre ruling party in Denmark under Anders Rasmussen who went from a strong liberatarian to a now advocate of tony blair's idea of "third way". Basically if the Conservative Party adopted Third Way as an official policy, they'd not only win every time, but they would serplant the Liberals as the party of Canada. But, I'm not a member of the Conservative Party of Canada, and they apparently rather look towards the United States for political guidance then Europe.

The Liberals won't go third way officially because that means they'd have to stand for something.

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The USA doesn't have a monopoly on liberal republican ideas like open trade, entreprenurship, free speech, and a non-intrusive or oppressive government. These ideas, date back 300, 600 and even 2500 years.

People who believe in these things aren't guided by George W Bush, but by Xenophon, Cato, Livy, Machiavelli, Smith, Jefferson, Gladstone, JS Mill, Churchill, von Hayek, Friedman.

To paint any (formerly liberal, but hijacked by socialists and what has now come to be known as:) conservative government as a wannabee lackey of the USA is just a petty little attempt to belittle these ideas which stand for the prosperity and liberty of humanity.

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Pierre, are these political threads or is this "Election Thread: Canada" meant to be threads at all? Or is this an attempt to sway people to your way of thinking? What is this, an anti-Conservative go NDP commercial brought forward by yourself?

Boo 'Urns!

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The problem is that the government of Canada collects WAY too much money from our paycheques for the EI fund. The surplus right now is 54 BILLION dollars, ridiculous!!

Yeah, I got a good article here where we can see where we could get this money. It is in french but I'll translate the best parts via www.reverso.com. This has been written in 2004 by Leo-Paul Lauzon, politic and economy teacher, as well as an NDP candidate in Outremont in 2006 (just for you PTG...).

http://www.radio-canada.ca/nouvelles/Econo...n-banques.shtml

While they revealed, earlier this week, record profits, the big Canadian banks would make lose billions of dollars in Canada by taking advantage of numerous fiscal paradises.

According to the economist Léo-Paul Lauzon, of the UQAM, five bigger Canadian banks deprived Canada and provinces of 10 billion dollar of taxes these last 13 years, thanks to the setting-up of subsidiaries in fiscal paradises. Only during the last four years, the sum that these establishments should have overturned to the governments amounts to 5,7 billion dollars.

The professor Lauzon so examined closely the annual reports of banks Scotia, CIBC, TD, Royal Bank and of the Bank of Montreal.

All in all, these five financial institutions have 73 subsidiaries in fiscal paradises, territories where the tax rate is just none or very low. By making pass in transit their incomes in these subsidiaries abroad, banks save colossal sums in taxes.

According to the reportthe Scotia bank possesses 20 subsidiaries in fiscal paradises, the royal Bank 17, the TD 16 bank, CIBC 15 and the Bank of Montreal five. Among the favourite fiscal paradises of the Canadian banks, the Barbados appears in the first row(rank), followed by islands Caimans and the Bahamas.

The only example of the Bank CIBC allows to understand indeed the stratagem: thanks to his subsidiaries, the tax of the institution, which had to be 844 million dollars in 2003, was decreased to 239 millions. Instead of paying 36,6 % of taxes on its profits, the bank paid only 10,4 %. In comparison, in Quebec, the private individuals are imposed as high as 48 %.

The Association of the Canadian bankers (ABC) reacted at the end of the day, by communiqué, by qualifying the assertions of the report as "inaccurate".

Making reference in conformance with the document, the ABC considers that " the fundamental premise of the reportis misleading and totally divested of foundation. It merges companies who respect the laws [...] with the companies which try to exercise their activities without respecting the law, in purposes of criminality or tax evasion.

There is the money we would all need... And it might be the same for multi-nationales companies...

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Dump that on the federal debt. Sooner we pay that off, sooner we can really dump money into whatever we want.

Already done. It's a surplus on paper - excess EI contributions always find their way to general revenues (which is a major complaint of business groups wanting to see EI rates lowered).

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Pierre, are these political threads or is this "Election Thread: Canada" meant to be threads at all? Or is this an attempt to sway people to your way of thinking? What is this, an anti-Conservative go NDP commercial brought forward by yourself?

Boo 'Urns!

bwhaha no. This is about election that will happen next year and to talk about.

Why you don't like my radical idea that would make the Liberals disappear and the entire map would go blue? You don't want your party to win?

In Canada its all about that race to the centre, so if the Conservatives really want to win and rid themselves of this "hidden agenda" simple. Call a convention adopt a third way, a mix of liberalism (classic) and social democracy. The radical middle, you watch all of Toronto, go blue. Seriously. I'm trying to help you out here. You want the Conservative Party to win majority elections right? Best way to do this is to either come clean with your intentions during a majority all of it, no hiding anything or adopt the ultra centrist view of the third way.

Which ever party adopts it first will radically change the electorate. NDP won't do it, but if the Liberals actually had any smarts they'd do it. Then they'd have an ideology, a template and they'd force the Conservatives to move to the centre and basically adopt the same. We're in an era of centristism, why do you think the Liberals win even though they're a bunch of fools? Because they're viewed as the most centric party.

One up the Liberals by adopting third way.

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  • 1 month later...

One minute the C's look dead in the water with the isotopes and the Chalk River incident and general bungling here and there. Then, Harper begins a diplomatic push for help with telephone call to U.S. President for more troop and vehicular support. That's a plus.

One step backwards Conservatives and 1 step forward. :blink:

I have absolutely no idea who is going to win now. I don't trust the polls because they can swing heavily during elections. Heck, even Kim Campbell was 10 points up on the Liberal's when that election was called. Polls mean jack squat.

Stay tuned folks

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It's very possible that Dion now has an ace up his sleeve in protecting the government. I suspect within the week that Dion is going to reveal this ace and come out with an impressive attack.

Poor Layton. He wants to have the election sooner to offset the bi-elections forthcoming. If the Liberal's get a surge from winning those, it won't help the NDP. And, there is no way Dion is going to call a confidence attack to enable Layton to hurt the Liberal's in an earlier election.

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i think dion is tired of playing games, its been 2 years of this crap and Harper isn't liked personally.

He's not well liked out here, its just a matter of which party to rally around to defeat the conservatives. lots of vote splitting.

For example the local Frank Lunney

Nanaimo-Alberni

26,102 Lunney tory

20,335 NDP

12,023 Liberal

3,379 Green

If the Liberal voters weren't so dead set for the Liberals realizing that the Liberal party will never ever win this riding period. -1 tory

Saanich Gulf Islands

24,416 Gary Lunn Tory

17,455 NDP

17,144 LIB

6,533 Green

Esquimalt-Juan de Fuca (Dave Bennett's old riding) no reason why this isn't ndp

20,761 Keith Martin (ex Reformer now with the Liberals)

18,595 NDP

16,327 Tory

Pitt Meadows- Maple Ridge

20,946 Randy Kamp Tory

18,225 NDP

10,556 Liberal

South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale

26,383 Russ Heibert Tory

17,291 Liberal

9,522 NDP

Delta-Richmond East

23,595 John Cummins tory

15,527 Liberal

7,176 NDP

2,414 Green

Fleetwood-Port Kells

14,577 Nina Grewal tory

13,749 Liberal

10,961 NDP

Vancouver-Kingsway

Emerson is finished, enough said

In all honesty the Tories should not have a single seat on Vancouver Island and Lower Mainland/Fraser Valley. basically what the voters should do is vote whomever is the second choice of the NDP/Lib candidate in. Fleetwood, Delta, South Surrey to Liberal. All of Vancouver island should be NDP, no excuses there.

Now how to attack the tories in the interior (basically rally around the ndp because the liberals have no chance)

Cariboo-Prince George

19,624 Dick Harris

10,509 Liberal

10,129 NDP

Kamloops-Thompson-Cariboo

20948 Betty Hinton tory

16417 NDP

13454 Liberal

Okanagan—Shuswap

24,448 Colin Mayes tory

14,357 NDP

12,340 Liberal

So if the voters were smart you'd have +7 NDP +4 Liberal

tories would be left with 6 seats in the whole province, totally decimated.

basically ndp needs to take back the interior. liberals take the fraser valley.

ndp 17

lib 13

tory 6

Edited by Pierre the Great
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Alberta

Edmonton Centre (should be Liberal gain)

Edmonton—Strathcona (vote should go to the ndp candidate)

Winnipeg

Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia (vote liberal)

Kildonan—St. Paul vote liberal

Winnipeg South liberal

Rural Manitoba

Churchill ndp

Selkirk—Interlake ndp

Saskatchewan

Blackstrap ndp

Palliser ndp

Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre ndp

Regina—Qu'Appelle ndp

Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar ndp

and there you go, electioneering at its finest :D now if the liberals-ndp had an actual plan like this to take back the west. lol

i mean this is simple vote splitting nothing to do with policies per say. come on people voting isn't rocket science.

lol i just spent an hour and a half putting all this together. IM NUTS!!! :lol:

Edited by Pierre the Great
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  • 2 weeks later...

As much as I dislike Harper and his Mike Harris rejects running our economy (Shuddering violently), there really is no other party to vote for. Many times in the past the Liberals were much more conservative than the real Conservative party, but not this time. Dion is a failure and will bring the Liberals to their worst ever defeat like the WORST Prime Minister in history Brian "I Hid The Money" Mulroney did to the true Tory party.

Its tough being Conservative watching North American Republican/Conservative governments spend us into defecits.

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