brobin Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 I don't consider Luongo clutch he has 1 playoff series win in his entire career. Brodeur is clutch Hasek is clutch Ward is clutch Giguere is clutch. There are very few clutch goalies in the league, Huet is a good starter but I don't know if he can win more than a couple playoff games. Why do you consider Hasek clutch? He took forever to win a cup and he had good teams and good chances to do it many times. If anything, he is fragile. Ward was clutch once. Giguire was clutch once and in front of one hell of a team. He was brutal the year before. Brodeur is the only one on that list that I think we have enough data to say that in a playoff series, he is likely to be clutch. All I am saying is we don't know about Huet yet. If he wins us the cup this year, is he forever known as a clutch goalie? There are only a couple guys who have pulled it off several times to convince me. Roy and Brodeur in the modern era. People seem to make decisions based on one or two plays. If a goalie wins early in his career, people ignore his gaffs and terrible years. If they lose early, then they "can't win the big one". There are probably 10 goalies in this league that will a top 6 team are more then capable of winning the cup. I consider Huet to be among them. That of course, is an opinion based on what I have seen in the regular season. I don't have an opinion on Price because he has not done anything yet to warrant a strong opinion one way or the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neech Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Why do you consider Hasek clutch? He took forever to win a cup and he had good teams and good chances to do it many times. If anything, he is fragile. Hasek was pretty damn clutch in those years with Buffalo. They had no business making it out of the first round, let alone getting to the finals. I'd say Luongo is clutch judging by how he's played with team Canada, and also how he made a non-playoff team a division champ, but it's too early to judge him at the moment. He's nowhere near the league of Brodeur, and probably never will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Huet is a good starter but I don't know if he can win more than a couple playoff games. Here is my sarcastic reply... Of course you don't know, you don't have enough data. Just like you don't know if Price can win more then a couple of games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Ward was clutch once. Giguire was clutch once and in front of one hell of a team. He was brutal the year before. Brodeur is the only one on that list that I think we have enough data to say that in a playoff series, he is likely to be clutch. All I am saying is we don't know about Huet yet. If he wins us the cup this year, is he forever known as a clutch goalie? There are only a couple guys who have pulled it off several times to convince me. Roy and Brodeur in the modern era. People seem to make decisions based on one or two plays. If a goalie wins early in his career, people ignore his gaffs and terrible years. If they lose early, then they "can't win the big one". There are probably 10 goalies in this league that will a top 6 team are more then capable of winning the cup. I consider Huet to be among them. That of course, is an opinion based on what I have seen in the regular season. I don't have an opinion on Price because he has not done anything yet to warrant a strong opinion one way or the other. Ward won a cup in his first playoff appearance. Dont forget Gigure also won a conn smythe as the losing goalie to the Devils. Here is my sarcastic reply... Of course you don't know, you don't have enough data. Just like you don't know if Price can win more then a couple of games. I will gaurentee you that Price wins more playoff games than Huet in his first chance as a starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Ward won a cup in his first playoff appearance. Dont forget Gigure also won a conn smythe as the losing goalie to the Devils. I will gaurentee you that Price wins more playoff games than Huet in his first chance as a starter. Depends on the team in front of him, imo. What if Huet gets injured and Price is our starter. We get swept in 4. Does that mean Price is now a no good bum? Do we give him another chance? Personally, I would, but then I would be on a thread next year defending him while everyone wants him dumped for some hot prospect or a vet who can go the distance. As for Ward, he could be a one year wonder, for all we know. He was great in that series however. Sometimes it is a lot easier when you are a rookie with no pressure and nothing to lose. He was terrible the next year and has yet to really show that form again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Why do you consider Hasek clutch? He took forever to win a cup and he had good teams and good chances to do it many times. If anything, he is fragile. Ward was clutch once. Giguire was clutch once and in front of one hell of a team. He was brutal the year before. Brodeur is the only one on that list that I think we have enough data to say that in a playoff series, he is likely to be clutch. All I am saying is we don't know about Huet yet. If he wins us the cup this year, is he forever known as a clutch goalie? There are only a couple guys who have pulled it off several times to convince me. Roy and Brodeur in the modern era. People seem to make decisions based on one or two plays. If a goalie wins early in his career, people ignore his gaffs and terrible years. If they lose early, then they "can't win the big one". There are probably 10 goalies in this league that will a top 6 team are more then capable of winning the cup. I consider Huet to be among them. That of course, is an opinion based on what I have seen in the regular season. I don't have an opinion on Price because he has not done anything yet to warrant a strong opinion one way or the other. Hasek took an average Sabres team to the Semi - Finals, then the Finals. He won his Cup with the WIngs. But how soon we forget Hasek knocking out Team Canada all by himself in the 1998 Winter Olympics. Outdueling Roy in the shootout. Sorry dude, but you are wrong on that one, he is not fragile. Like JMMR said, Giguere may get zero credit for last season, but he took an 8th place team to Game 7 and won the Conn Smythe. That is clutch as well. Huet was not clutch in his first appearance. He did not slam the door shut like Ward did. If Ward and Huet switch places in that series Carolina does not have a Stanley Cup banner hanging in their arena right now. He was outplayed by a rookie. Like it or not that is what everybody remembers. Some goalies do choke in big situations. Some goalies rise to the occasion when they smell blood. Price has proved now on two occasions that when he gets close he can slam the door. These are the intangibles that stats cannot quantify. It is one of the biggest reasons why I am so high on Price. You can argue til you are blue in the face, but until Huet steals a series or even does not cost his team a series he will be surrounded by doubt. You also have to realize that habs fans are well versed in the world of Ken Dryden, Patrick Roy and Steve Penney and are going to be calling for Carey Price to get the start in goal in the playoffs the second that Huet loses a game. Pressure, Pressure, Pressure. This is the town that wanted Racicot to replace Roy after the Habs went down 2-0 to Quebec. We all know how where those bloody geniuses would have taken us. We will see if you are right about him come mid April. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Depends on the team in front of him, imo. What if Huet gets injured and Price is our starter. We get swept in 4. Does that mean Price is now a no good bum? Do we give him another chance? Personally, I would, but then I would be on a thread next year defending him while everyone wants him dumped for some hot prospect or a vet who can go the distance. As for Ward, he could be a one year wonder, for all we know. He was great in that series however. Sometimes it is a lot easier when you are a rookie with no pressure and nothing to lose. He was terrible the next year and has yet to really show that form again. Nope I have no problem with Price getting another shot or Huet for that matter and I hope Huet earns his shot and proves me wrong but until he does I will question his clutch play. You can even see it on a game to game basis he gets very panicked late in games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneSharpMarble Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Ward is not clutch, Ward was a flash in the pan, they will be lucky to just make the playoffs with him again. I sure as hell wouldn't trade Huet for Ward straight up. Huet is not a flashy goalie but he is a rock solid one and he can guarantee you a set save percentage, he might waiver on either side of it occassionally but he is in the top 10 goalies in the league. Reguardless we need him signed, if we keep him or move him it increases his value. As long as it is about 3 years for similar pay (maybe a bit more then current) his value will be through the roof. Montreal hasn't had the best defence and he has proven he is a legit starter. Teams that would be interested in getting him... Edmonton Washington Los Angeles Pittsburgh Just off the top of my head.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 (edited) Ward is not clutch, Ward was a flash in the pan, they will be lucky to just make the playoffs with him again. I sure as hell wouldn't trade Huet for Ward straight up. Huet is not a flashy goalie but he is a rock solid one and he can guarantee you a set save percentage, he might waiver on either side of it occassionally but he is in the top 10 goalies in the league. Reguardless we need him signed, if we keep him or move him it increases his value. As long as it is about 3 years for similar pay (maybe a bit more then current) his value will be through the roof. Montreal hasn't had the best defence and he has proven he is a legit starter. Teams that would be interested in getting him... Edmonton Washington Los Angeles Pittsburgh Just off the top of my head.. Blah Blah Blah Blah Conn Smythe trophy winner, Stanely Cup winner, he beat Huet heads up in Huet's only playoff appearance. I guess in 1988 you said the same stupid shit about Patrick Roy. Flash in the pan, not clutch. Give me a break. What was your opinion about Brodeur when the Devils missed the playoffs in his third year? Giguere when the Ducks missed the playoffs in 2004? Shall I go on? The love in and defense of Koivu/Huet on this board is bloody sickening some times. He has accomplished almost nothing in his brief NHL career. Ward is way younger and has accomplished a hell of a lot more. Your opinion will not change that. Edited February 5, 2008 by Wamsley01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smon Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Well, Ward is not Patrick Roy. But he's certainly more clutch than Huet. I do understand where the sentiment is coming from, Huet has done a good, but not great job at goalie. I would say his durability is really the big question for me as to whether he can put together a full season *knock on wood*. He's certainly provided good goaltending when required, but I don't think he's on the same level as the Brodeurs and Luongos of this league, since he has never really stood on his head for an entire playoffs run (who knows, maybe he will this year?). Still, Huet is easily in the top 10 goalies of the NHL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Well, Ward is not Patrick Roy. But he's certainly more clutch than Huet. I do understand where the sentiment is coming from, Huet has done a good, but not great job at goalie. I would say his durability is really the big question for me as to whether he can put together a full season *knock on wood*. He's certainly provided good goaltending when required, but I don't think he's on the same level as the Brodeurs and Luongos of this league, since he has never really stood on his head for an entire playoffs run (who knows, maybe he will this year?). Still, Huet is easily in the top 10 goalies of the NHL. I never said he was as good as Roy. Just that Roy won the Conn Smythe and then struggled for a couple of seasons. Brodeur and the Devils missed the playoffs as well after winning the Cup. How dumb would it have been to call them a flash in the pan? It has been 1 1/2 seasons since Ward won the Smythe trophy. A little early to start calling him a fluke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneSharpMarble Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Blah Blah Blah Blah Conn Smythe trophy winner, Stanely Cup winner, he beat Huet heads up in Huet's only playoff appearance. I guess in 1988 you said the same stupid shit about Patrick Roy. Flash in the pan, not clutch. Give me a break. What was your opinion about Brodeur when the Devils missed the playoffs in his third year? Giguere when the Ducks missed the playoffs in 2004? Shall I go on? The love in and defense of Koivu/Huet on this board is bloody sickening some times. He has accomplished almost nothing in his brief NHL career. Ward is way younger and has accomplished a hell of a lot more. Your opinion will not change that. Whats with you and flash in the pan goalies? He beat Huet heads up? What did they have some goalie brawl or something? How the hell does a goalie beat another goalie in a game, I am pretty sure the other players have more to do with it than the goalie. So now it's Cam Ward who is the next Roy? I guess you have tired of Theopendoor and have moved on. Ward hasn't accomplished much of anything, he sits behind a strong team and the playoff run was paved with injuries doled out to opponents key players. Wow that guy is a dream goalie! Gerber would have chased him from starter this year in Carolina without much problem. Your boytoy Ward is 36th in Save% and 35th in GAA. Huet is a much better goalie than Ward and like I said earlier I wouldn't trade em straight across. Does he have some revealing pictures of you or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 (edited) This thread is getting a little nuts. Nobody in their right minds can deny that Huet is a good NHL starter. He's legit. What stops him from being truly 'elite' is precisely that he's not a guy who is likely to steal games or series for you. He's more a guy who will make all the saves he needs to make for the team to win; BUT if the team caves in in front of him, he's probably not going to make 60 saves and win. People who attack Huet for this reason - and there are some on this board - are similar to those who attack Koivu (not this season, but throughout his career) for not being a superstar. Just because Huet is not Roy, it doesn't follow that he's garbage. It's also unfair to blame him for the Carolina series. We keep Koivu, we win that series IMHO. Huet wasn't at fault; that Ward 'beat' Huet is mostly due to the fact that the Habs' offence was almost entirely reliant on one player who got hurt. Not that Ward didn't play great, he did, but it's not as though those teams were evenly matched. Huet is more a Jeff Hackett or Andy Moog type. A good, strong NHL goalie, almost certainly top 10. You almost always have a chance to win with him. Most teams would love to have him. But he doesn't inspire *fear* in the opposition, just respect. Yes, his stats DO suggest an elite goalie; but I think what we've got here is a guy who is close to elite but will never get there except for certain hot stretches. To say that he's better than Luongo, say, is simply ridiculous, and all the stats in the world won't change the fact that Luongo can take an average team and turn it into a contender, while Huet can't. Price has the profile of a guy who can inspire that fear - a superstar goalie. But obviously he hasn't done a thing, not one bloody thing, to treat that as a fait accompli. Bear in mind that Theo had a similarly impressive profile. So what does that mean? Certainly NOT that we should view Huet as disposable. Whether we sign Huet to a fair deal, or cross our fingers on Price, either is a calculated risk. Since both options are reasonable, I'm not sure what all the bile is about. Edited February 5, 2008 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Whats with you and flash in the pan goalies? He beat Huet heads up? What did they have some goalie brawl or something? How the hell does a goalie beat another goalie in a game, I am pretty sure the other players have more to do with it than the goalie. So now it's Cam Ward who is the next Roy? I guess you have tired of Theopendoor and have moved on. Ward hasn't accomplished much of anything, he sits behind a strong team and the playoff run was paved with injuries doled out to opponents key players. Wow that guy is a dream goalie! Gerber would have chased him from starter this year in Carolina without much problem. Your boytoy Ward is 36th in Save% and 35th in GAA. Huet is a much better goalie than Ward and like I said earlier I wouldn't trade em straight across. Does he have some revealing pictures of you or something? That's the whole point though, isn't it? Ward hasn't done shit in the regular season but when he got his shot in the playoffs, he dominated. Isn't that what clutch is about, playing your best when you're under pressure? As for Huet, he seems to crack late in games, in OT, in close games, in shootouts, etc... The only gaffe I remember of his from the playoffs was the season-ending goal that fluttered right by his glove - though I do remember almost every point shot getting by him. Then there's also his play in the final game of last season against Toronto. So far, he has had some awesome games but he has played his best hockey in the relaxed situations while playing his worst hockey in intense situations. To me, that's exactly what not being clutch means. Huet is the better goalie right now, but one is clutch and the other is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneSharpMarble Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 That's the whole point though, isn't it? Ward hasn't done shit in the regular season but when he got his shot in the playoffs, he dominated. Isn't that what clutch is about, playing your best when you're under pressure? As for Huet, he seems to crack late in games, in OT, in close games, in shootouts, etc... The only gaffe I remember of his from the playoffs was the season-ending goal that fluttered right by his glove - though I do remember almost every point shot getting by him. Then there's also his play in the final game of last season against Toronto. So far, he has had some awesome games but he has played his best hockey in the relaxed situations while playing his worst hockey in intense situations. To me, that's exactly what not being clutch means. Huet is the better goalie right now, but one is clutch and the other is not. Clutch isn't very useful if you can't make the playoffs, and we will see if he truely is clutch when they make the playoffs next. One fluke run wont convince anyone (except Wamsley) that he is the real deal. 35th among goalies in the league is shit no matter how you cut it or how many trophies you wave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Tony Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 What if Huet gets injured and Price is our starter. We get swept in 4. LOL A) Price would not get swept B) How much worse would 0-4 stack up against Huet's steller 1-4 career playoff record. Price and Huet have something in common, BOTH are unproven in the playoffs. SO WHAT, so were Roy & Dryden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 LOL A) Price would not get swept B) How much worse would 0-4 stack up against Huet's steller 1-4 career playoff record. Price and Huet have something in common, BOTH are unproven in the playoffs. SO WHAT, so were Roy & Dryden 2-4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 LOL A) Price would not get swept B) How much worse would 0-4 stack up against Huet's steller 1-4 career playoff record. Price and Huet have something in common, BOTH are unproven in the playoffs. SO WHAT, so were Roy & Dryden Actually, Price could get swept, any goalie could, including Brodeur. Huet was not swept. In any case, that is my point. People here are trying to use bad logic to prove that Huet is not a good, "clutch" goalie. If you follow their logic, then as soon as a goalie fails to win the playoffs for you, they suck. If they do win the cup, then they are forever good. Utter nonsense. If people are too blind to see how well Huet has done for us, then they just don't want to see anything. He may not be Roy, but given his record, the odds clearly show that he is more likely to be good in the playoffs then not good. And for the record, he was good in the Carolina series. For the record, Huet had a better save percentage then Ward did. The difference was the teams in front of them. If anyone here can honestly say they would rather go into the playoffs with either Price or Ward in nets this season, go ahead. I would choose Huet. Period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brboo Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 I find it amusing that for the past month or so, there has been so much bickering between people defending/bashing Huet and Koivu, keeping in mind that we are on the verge of first place in the east. What if the "expert" Predictions of a 14th place finish turned out to be true this year? I could only imagine some of the topics we would be discussing. Sheesh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Tony Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 I find it amusing that for the past month or so, there has been so much bickering between people defending/bashing Huet and Koivu, keeping in mind that we are on the verge of first place in the east. What if the "expert" Predictions of a 14th place finish turned out to be true this year? I could only imagine some of the topics we would be discussing. Sheesh. Yikes, a rare sign of common sense in the thread Huet has been an EXCELLENT surprise considering he was almost an afterthought in the Bonk trade. Price's POTENTIAL is scary good. Halak's is a great guy to lead Hamilton and a great fall back if anything goes wrong with the above two. Danis is a guy I'd be more than happy to see in the Habs net if the need occurs. I'm just not sure where the controversy is. The only issue is that NONE of our goalies has proven themselves in an NHL playoff. I have faith one will however. With a nod to brboo, I'm pretty damn happy with the way this season has gone and can't find much to complain about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Tony Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 (edited) I don't consider Luongo clutch he has 1 playoff series win in his entire career. Brodeur is clutch Hasek is clutch Ward is clutch Giguere is clutch. There are very few clutch goalies in the league, Huet is a good starter but I don't know if he can win more than a couple playoff games. With 12 playoff games under his belt and only 5 wins, Luongo still has a ton to prove, but I believe he will silence any critics before long. Ray Emery, Cam Ward, Giggy were all clutch for one playoff run (if one playoff year qualified you, Lalime & Hedberg would be in there too ), Hasek & Khabibulin, while both clutch performers in the past both are well past their glory years. And while Brodeur is approaching the twilight of his career, he's my choice for the one blue chip clutch playoff performer in the league, but if I'm betting I'd bet Luongo, Turco, Kipper, Nabokov will join him soon (hopefully Price too ;-) . Oh ya, my point Huet is unproven as a clutch playoff performer, YET, but he's in really good company because technically there's only one real long term proven clutch goaltender in the league in my opinion. Edited February 6, 2008 by Fat Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bookworm Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 I like both Price and Huet. I think they are both elite goalies and we could win the cup with either one. I would like it if Huet is signed to a four year deal and we trade Price for Dion Phaneuf. Elite goalies are more plentiful right now than elite defencemen. Calgary would probably decline though. Price, Ryder and our 2008 first round pick for Phaneuf maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneSharpMarble Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 I like both Price and Huet. I think they are both elite goalies and we could win the cup with either one. I would like it if Huet is signed to a four year deal and we trade Price for Dion Phaneuf. Elite goalies are more plentiful right now than elite defencemen. Calgary would probably decline though. Price, Ryder and our 2008 first round pick for Phaneuf maybe? Eklund is that you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Clutch isn't very useful if you can't make the playoffs, and we will see if he truely is clutch when they make the playoffs next. One fluke run wont convince anyone (except Wamsley) that he is the real deal. 35th among goalies in the league is shit no matter how you cut it or how many trophies you wave. Who said Ward was a great goalie? I said he outplayed Huet in their one matchup, I said that he has accomplished more and I said it is ridiculous to write off a 24 year old goalie because if you looked at Roy's 2nd and 3rd year he was not that great and Brodeur missed the playoffs in his 3rd year with the same team that won the Cup the year before. Anybody who had written those 2 off like you are with Ward would look like bloody fools. I don't care about Save percentages etc. Two things turned the tide in that series. The Koivu eye injury and Ward replacing Gerber. How can anybody possibly have an intelligent discussion when you essentially take Wards resume, rip it up and say it means nothing? No matter what you say, he has achieved more at 23 years old than Huet has at 33. Those are the comparables, and they don't favour Huet. Simple as that. As far as Huet, I agree that he resembles Moog and Hackett more than the elite of this league. He is good, but not great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 I like both Price and Huet. I think they are both elite goalies and we could win the cup with either one. I would like it if Huet is signed to a four year deal and we trade Price for Dion Phaneuf. Elite goalies are more plentiful right now than elite defencemen. Calgary would probably decline though. Price, Ryder and our 2008 first round pick for Phaneuf maybe? Thank the Hockey Gods that you are not the G.M. of the Canadiens. Price for Phaneuf?? Are you crazy? That is some good shit you must be smoking!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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