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SAKS-AVENUE

Arguments about Koivu

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It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that Koivu's been having a terrible season, so I really don't know what the argument is about. Trading Koivu? Not going to happen. However, unlike some, I have faith that he will snap out of it sooner or later. I don't believe that he's washed up and over the hill either.

Anyhow, those absurd statistics are all well and good, the real issue is actually the PIMS..I digress. The main issue that I feel most people have with Koivu haters is the sheer energy they devote to bashing him. It's unrealistic to expect a player to be superb game in and game out, every player goes through slumps, and it seems like all these guys were just waiting in the woodwork until he slumped. Koivu's sure having a hell of a one this season, but Kovalev did the same last year and bounced back, and I fail to see why some just don't/won't/can't believe that Koivu can do just that. It's fairly obvious everyone around the Canadiens feels the same way. He's 33, not 41.

Have some faith. And if you can't, then fine, but it's all getting rather boring with the same threads constantly going about Koivu. No one knows why he's struggling this year (heck, he probably doesn't know) just like no one knows why his entire line is doing poorly, either. Maybe Carbonneau will shake that line up a bit.

Edited by smon

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It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that Koivu's been having a terrible season, so I really don't know what the argument is about. Trading Koivu? Not going to happen. However, unlike some, I have faith that he will snap out of it sooner or later. I don't believe that he's washed up and over the hill either.

Anyhow, those absurd statistics are all well and good, the real issue is actually the PIMS..I digress. The main issue that I feel most people have with Koivu haters is the sheer energy they devote to bashing him. It's unrealistic to expect a player to be superb game in and game out, every player goes through slumps, and it seems like all these guys were just waiting in the woodwork until he slumped. Koivu's sure having a hell of a one this season, but Kovalev did the same last year and bounced back, and I fail to see why some just don't/won't/can't believe that Koivu can do just that. It's fairly obvious everyone around the Canadiens feels the same way. He's 33, not 41.

Have some faith. And if you can't, then fine, but it's all getting rather boring with the same threads constantly going about Koivu. No one knows why he's struggling this year (heck, he probably doesn't know) just like no one knows why his entire line is doing poorly, either. Maybe Carbonneau will shake that line up a bit.

Well, this is a very sensible post. Well done :clap:

Some people hate Koivu because he was never really an NHL all-star despite being the best we had all those years. Like that's his fault. (Actually if you look at his stats, you'll find that he has traditionally put up all-star numbers except for long, agonizing, once-a-season slumps that pull his totals down, but I digress).

I've always feared that Koivu's much-damaged body would break down early, and that when it did the collapse would be near-total. The same thing happened to Kirk Muller. We'll see. But I still wouldn't bet against Saks coming through for us in the clutch, this season anyway.

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two thoughts:

-why does koivu have to play with higgins? higgins really hasnt been the same points guy since he messed up his ankle last year. both are underperfoming.

-why is kovalev getting a free pass on his assist on dubinsky's goal? he also took a dumb penalty, stupidly elbowed that guy to tee off the other team, and spent too much time mucking it up.

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It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that Koivu's been having a terrible season, so I really don't know what the argument is about. Trading Koivu? Not going to happen. However, unlike some, I have faith that he will snap out of it sooner or later. I don't believe that he's washed up and over the hill either.

Anyhow, those absurd statistics are all well and good, the real issue is actually the PIMS..I digress. The main issue that I feel most people have with Koivu haters is the sheer energy they devote to bashing him. It's unrealistic to expect a player to be superb game in and game out, every player goes through slumps, and it seems like all these guys were just waiting in the woodwork until he slumped. Koivu's sure having a hell of a one this season, but Kovalev did the same last year and bounced back, and I fail to see why some just don't/won't/can't believe that Koivu can do just that. It's fairly obvious everyone around the Canadiens feels the same way. He's 33, not 41.

Have some faith. And if you can't, then fine, but it's all getting rather boring with the same threads constantly going about Koivu. No one knows why he's struggling this year (heck, he probably doesn't know) just like no one knows why his entire line is doing poorly, either. Maybe Carbonneau will shake that line up a bit.

Smon, I have no idea. Kozed was going off in the game thread how much Koivu sucks. It was annoying me so I was defending Koivu. Next thing I know Kozed makes up a thread that I don't even support and makes it look like I started it.

and ya like you smon I'm really bored with all the Koivu threads aswell. So please Kozed

1. STOP

2.Delete this thread, or put it in your own Friggin name.

Edited by SAKS-AVENUE

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The main issue that I feel most people have with Koivu haters is the sheer energy they devote to bashing him.

If that was adressed to me, I'll say that energy is only necessary to counter-balance the fanboys who refuse to accept the fact that Koivu has been struggling for most of the season and that one of the reasons for most of our losses has been the inability for what was once called our 1st line (Koivu's line) to support what is now our real 1st line (Kovy's line).

I seem to recall weeks ago having to do the same "wake-up" routine when Koivu's fanboys didn't want to accept the fact that Koivu wasn't the #1 C anymore. Weeks later is there still anyone doubting that Plekanec is the team's #1 C?

Look, I'll be the first one to cheer if Saku regains his form of previous years and starts being an offensive catalyst again. We're stuck with him anyways. But if he can't do that, he should at least stop taking lazy penalties and be more defensively responsible. That's the least one should expect of a 2nd C who isn't generating as much offense his big salary says he should.

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Smon, I have no idea. Kozed was going off in the game thread how much Koivu sucks. It was annoying me so I was defending Koivu. Next thing I know Kozed makes up a thread that I don't even support and makes it look like I started it.

and ya like you smon I'm really bored with all the Koivu threads aswell. So please Kozed

1. STOP

2.Delete this thread, or put it in your own Friggin name.

1. Who do you think you are to ask other users to censor themselves to spare your oversensitivities?

2. Your post is what started the entire non-game related arguement.

Get a grip

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1. Who do you think you are to ask other users to censor themselves to spare your oversensitivities?

2. Your post is what started the entire non-game related arguement.

Get a grip

Dear Kozed.

I didn't start this thread. I don't support the discussion in this thread. Could you please change it to YOUR NAME or move it to one of the other Koivu argument threads.

My problem is not with a Koivu slump whether it exists or not. My problem is with the way you were doing it in YES....THE GAME THREAD.

and now I have a bigger problem. You are using your moderator powers to start threads in my name. It's not about Koivu anymore, your pissing me off.

Please change that.

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Well, this is a very sensible post. Well done :clap:

Some people hate Koivu because he was never really an NHL all-star despite being the best we had all those years. Like that's his fault. (Actually if you look at his stats, you'll find that he has traditionally put up all-star numbers except for long, agonizing, once-a-season slumps that pull his totals down, but I digress).

I've always feared that Koivu's much-damaged body would break down early, and that when it did the collapse would be near-total. The same thing happened to Kirk Muller. We'll see. But I still wouldn't bet against Saks coming through for us in the clutch, this season anyway.

I agree that some people hate on Koivu, but there seems to be the same number on the other side that defend him no matter what.

Koivu has played poorly. No hate, just a fact.

When Koivu begins to play better the Koivu lovers will drop "I told you so"

When Koivu continues his poor play Koivu haters will drop "I told you so"

I have stayed away from these convos for over a month now, because it is the same thing over and over and over again.

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Geez you should take Ativan or vallium once in a while. you're taking this stuff way too personally.

while he does put decent number on PP, koivu has slowed down tremendously and is less effective 5 on 5. obviously every players career comes to an end and Koivu at 33, isn't a spring chicken anymore. its happened too all the best players in the game. some of them changed to be defensive minded players and lasted longer, like yzerman...I can see koivu doing this.

whether we like it or not, koivu is at the twillight of his career.

The thing is is that I can't see Koivu becoming a defensive-minded player. He's already one of our poorer players in our own zone.

I agree Koivu doesn't have that many more years left in the tank, but maybe he could have another season like last year's next year. Or maybe this is truly the beginning of the decline and he'll descend into mediocrity, who knows. We have him for one more year after this one, so we'll most likely find out, and that'll probably be it for him in Montreal after that (unless he resigns for little money to stay with us). Or maybe if our organization thinks that his level of play is going downhill then they'll try to trade him in the offseason to a contender.

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Dear Kozed.

I didn't start this thread. I don't support the discussion in this thread. Could you please change it to YOUR NAME or move it to one of the other Koivu argument threads.

My problem is not with a Koivu slump whether it exists or not. My problem is with the way you were doing it in YES....THE GAME THREAD.

and now I have a bigger problem. You are using your moderator powers to start threads in my name. It's not about Koivu anymore, your pissing me off.

Please change that.

First of all I want those 5 minutes of my life back from reading all of the junk in this thread....

Second of all...are the people who post here in kindergarten? Lets act our age and keep things civil....

What's there to b!tch about...we're in 4th place, 3 points behind Ottawa and we're playing some of the best hockey we have in years!

For every negative theres always a positive counter attack...so theres no point in members going at each others throats....the end

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Hmn, I'd be happier when he's not even on the team at all.

the canadiens shouldn't build their team on a 34(?) years old 60 points scorer. what has he done lately to deserve much attention ??

given, he's our most talented foward. that doesn't mean he's our best. he doens't want to be the best, he only wants to looked and treated like the best.

great players arent put down by less talented linemates, they make them better...just look at lemieux with rob brown and wendell young. or prucha with jarg, or bochenski with spezza.

when you say that montreal didn build a line around kovy, why the hell do you think that samsonov was here for ?? did it work?? hell no. you put two sellfish players on the same line, of course it wont work. his only excuse is that his centerman was starstruck and unconfortable with AK, but who had the better year ??

my say is that if we put kovy with thornton and cheechoo, he'll still underacheive and people will say that joe and john stole his thunder.

I think that kovalev can be really helpfull on the powerplay but on 5 on 5, hes done. he doens,t have that extra gear any more.

I am so glad you are not our general manager. You can't wait to see the guy who has led us in goal scoring the last 2 seasons go away, but you all want Kovalev, who has coasted here since he signed the big contract, to get coddled, surrounded by superstars, so he can produce. What is wrong with you people? Where was Kovy that last game against Toronto, with the playoffs on the line? Did you hear Ryder griping and complaining about his linemates, ice time, etc? I really believe that if Ryder was french canadien, everyone would love him. A reliable 30 goal man who comes at a bargain, thats what Ryder is. Nothing more. Is that really so bad?

I have to agree to some extent - it really boggles the mind to see so many people on these boards who completely detest the best offensive players on the team: Souray, Ryder and now Koivu.

Anyhow, building a team around a declining player in his late 30's is hardly a recipe for success, unless he's a superstar. Jagr is, Kovalev isn't. They're not on the same level.

Remember these guys? Around here we tend to call dead ducks dead ducks. When people are under achieving we call them on it. We all do it at times and it is not a big deal. The large sig is over kill but we are free to express ourselves on here. I use this forum to save my marriage as you can imagine the tiraids my wife hears. All yours put up with the same as we are diehards. I admit to letting my emotions take over at times and there are times my opinion of players flips and flops by the shift even. Liked Ryder last 2 years, this year not, although when he was demoted and put a few in I was easily convinced he could find form. Koivu is not impressing me this year, in the past he has. He isn't the first or last person to wear this uniform to fall from my favour and could easily and hopefully will get back on track and swing my passion back. The ball is in his court though, as it was with AK's after last season, prove me wrong. Please!

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Keep it together KoZed. As a moderator of this site, stuff like this really makes you sound like an idiot. It's one thing to be pissed, but to go on and on and on and on really is kind of stupid.

We lost! Take it like a man, not a five year old.

I agree ... comments like this are generally inane! However, coming from a moderator is downright intolerable. A mod should be setting the example for decorum.

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I agree ... comments like this are generally inane! However, coming from a moderator is downright intolerable. A mod should be setting the example for decorum.

Sorry if some of you are still unfamiliar with game threads voodoo...

Here's how it all started:

Hey, Kolzig...

NICE SHUTOUT!

The #### are together... does it means Plex is the cleavage? :P

ET LE BUT!

Sergei!

3-1

Thanks KoZed for the shutout bust!

My pleasure! ^_^

Hmmm...

HIGGINS YOU SUUUUUUUUCK!!!

Hence the Saku you suuuuck jinx post.

Can you all take a chill pill now?

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I'd propose a jinx emoticon to differentiate it from the posts that look exactly the same, but are NOT jinxes. Otherwise, who is to know the difference?

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I'd propose a jinx emoticon to differentiate it from the posts that look exactly the same, but are NOT jinxes. Otherwise, who is to know the difference?

I could try...

Though it seems Higgins and Koivu are both impervious to jinx posts... except when I blast Koivu in my sig (NJ game)... I'll need to find something that works...

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Give Koivu a respectable winger and Kozed will go back to his angry little corner. Face it Gainey hasn't made the single most important move that has been facing this organization for years.

Getting someone for Koivu to play with has been a problem staring this whole organization in the face for ages. But he just buries his head in the sand and claims doing nothing is doing something.

Last year Kovalev completely shat the bed and I would easily blame him mainly for the team missing the playoffs. This year he has drastically changed, I didn't see it coming but I am glad it happened.

Outside of Habs fans does anyone really think Higgins is untouchable? The guy is looking more and more like a bust every game. Latly he has played ok drawing penalties but to be on the first line ok just doesnt cut it when your second line has its act together.

In conclusion Koivu doesn't suck, he has carried this team time and again and gone through this sort of nonsense time and again. It's just now he's getting older and it's time he needs some help for a change.

On a side note wtf is a mod doing starting a thread in a members name? :wacko:

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On a side note wtf is a mod doing starting a thread in a members name? :wacko:

When you split posts the board's software takes the name of the user of the first post.

Nothing mods can do about it.

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Give Koivu a respectable winger and Kozed will go back to his angry little corner. Face it Gainey hasn't made the single most important move that has been facing this organization for years.

How comes when Kovalev and Koivu are put together on the same line, nothing happens? Isn't Kovalev good enough or does it takes Kovalchuk or Ovechkin to get Koivu going?

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How comes when Kovalev and Koivu are put together on the same line, nothing happens? Isn't Kovalev good enough or does it takes Kovalchuk or Ovechkin to get Koivu going?

I don't think Kovalev likes to play second fiddle to Koivu. Last year Kovalevs cancer almost ruined two good careers but I didn't hear you huffing and puffing like you are now, wonder why that is. :huh:

Put Kovy with good ole Ryder and Higgins and he will be throwing fits and taking late game penalties in no time.

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I don't think Kovalev likes to play second fiddle to Koivu. Last year Kovalevs cancer almost ruined two good careers but I didn't hear you huffing and puffing like you are now, wonder why that is. :huh:

Looking at the way Kovy plays now, don't you think I had some insight not "huffing and puffing" about him, uh?

Put Kovy with good ole Ryder and Higgins and he will be throwing fits and taking late game penalties in no time.

So, in a nutshell it's all Koivu winger's fault

Tell me, are the Kostitsyns good enough for Koivu? I mean, just how good does Koivu's wingers needs to be so Koivu will play well?

I seem to recall earlier this season a journalist asking Carbo if Plekanec could make Kovalev better; Carbo turned the question around and said it's the veteran's job to make the young players better. Logically, if Koivu was as good a player as you make him to be, he could do just that and not the other way around.

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Looking at the way Kovy plays now, don't you think I had some insight not "huffing and puffing" about him, uh?

Lobbying for us to call you "crystal ball" eh? Nice try but someone already has that nickname.

So, in a nutshell it's all Koivu winger's fault

Tell me, are the Kostitsyns good enough for Koivu? I mean, just how good does Koivu's wingers needs to be so Koivu will play well?

I seem to recall earlier this season a journalist asking Carbo if Plekanec could make Kovalev better; Carbo turned the question around and said it's the veteran's job to make the young players better. Logically, if Koivu was as good a player as you make him to be, he could do just that and not the other way around.

I don't remember Andrei playing with Koivu and his brother is obviously a work in progress. Koivu can only take a player so far and in the end they have to finish their plays. Countless times Ryder and Higgins have missed wide open nets not that the blame is solely on them Koivu has not been as great as always but he is nowhere near the level of shit play Kovalev had last year. He is still on pace for what like 50-60 points?

So give it a rest.

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Jezus Christ! All this whining and bitching about Koivu should stop!

I agree, Koivu isn't having a good year. in fact, he's having a lousy year. Bitchin' about it won't change anything. Let's just hope and Pray to the hockey gods that Saku will wake up out of this funk, and help the habs go as far as they can in the playoffs. If saku could get his game eleveated to the level of play we know he can, Higgins will follow.

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Saku's already coming out of his funk. I predict he'll be a key guy in our stretch drive.

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This same conversation took place in Toronto over and over about Sundin.

Give him a winger, it is not his fault. He can't do everything himself. So they signed Mogilny.

Mogilny scored 30+ goals, did Sundin's point totals rise dramatically? Nope.

Centers are like point guards in the NBA. A good centre makes his wingers better.

These are all fanboy excuses. Anybody who has watched Koivu this year knows he has not been the same.

But we have to watch the Koivu fan club rally together anytime somebody utters a discouraging word.

We have to watch the Huet fan club rally together anytime somebody utters a discouraging word.

If I criticize Koivu's play, I don't want to hear how he battled through cancer, I don't want to hear that he is a great leader,

I don't want to hear that his wingers suck, I don't want to hear that he is great for the community.

What do all those things have to do with him not moving his feet and taking 30 offensive zone penalties?

What do all those things have to do with him lacking energy?

What do all those things have to do with him not producing first line totals?

What do all those things have to do with his blown defensive zone coverages?

Call a spade a spade. He has not played well this year. WTF is the big deal? WE ALL WANT HIM TO PLAY BETTER!

Are we defending him so we can go get our little quote in 2 months when he scores a big goal and say I told you so?

Look at me, I am a bigger fan than you?

THe whole ######ing thing is ridiculous. He is producing like a second line centre which he now is.

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This same conversation took place in Toronto over and over about Sundin.

Give him a winger, it is not his fault. He can't do everything himself. So they signed Mogilny.

Mogilny scored 30+ goals, did Sundin's point totals rise dramatically? Nope.

Centers are like point guards in the NBA. A good centre makes his wingers better.

These are all fanboy excuses. Anybody who has watched Koivu this year knows he has not been the same.

But we have to watch the Koivu fan club rally together anytime somebody utters a discouraging word.

We have to watch the Huet fan club rally together anytime somebody utters a discouraging word.

If I criticize Koivu's play, I don't want to hear how he battled through cancer, I don't want to hear that he is a great leader,

I don't want to hear that his wingers suck, I don't want to hear that he is great for the community.

What do all those things have to do with him not moving his feet and taking 30 offensive zone penalties?

What do all those things have to do with him lacking energy?

What do all those things have to do with him not producing first line totals?

What do all those things have to do with his blown defensive zone coverages?

Call a spade a spade. He has not played well this year. WTF is the big deal? WE ALL WANT HIM TO PLAY BETTER!

Are we defending him so we can go get our little quote in 2 months when he scores a big goal and say I told you so?

Look at me, I am a bigger fan than you?

THe whole ######ing thing is ridiculous. He is producing like a second line centre which he now is.

:clap: This is one of the best damn posts I've seen in a very long time. :clap:

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