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Arguments about Koivu


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Wouldn'T it be nice If the Habs could beat up on the Hens Tomorrow! 7-1!!BANG! 6 points for saku, 5 points for Higgins a couple of points for the Plex-Kovy and Kosty line. A couple of Goals for Latendresse. A couple of assists for the d-men.

It would just be an incredible boost of confidence for the whole team!

I will pray tonight! :clap:

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I think that the reason why we are being so harsh on Koivu is that we still see him as a 1st line centre. Koivu has been replaced by Plex as the 1st line centre. He is now our 2nd line centre, and as such, we should compare hiim to other 2nd line centres in the league.

Just for fun, i checked out the stats of the other 30 players who act as 2nd line centre for their respective teams, here are the top 10.

1. Malkin (Pitts) - 66pts

2. Brière (Phil) - 52pts

3. Stall (Car) - 48pts

4. Richards (TB) - 47pts

5. Fisher (Ott) - 42pts

6. Drury (NYR) - 39pts(has more goals than Saku)

7. KOIVU (MTL) - 39pts

8. Modano (Dal) - 37pts

9. Legwand (Nash) - 37pts

10. Kozlov (Wash) - 37pts

As you can see, Koivu is doing pretty well as a 2nd line centre. Considering that the average 2nd line centre in the league has 32.07 points, he is well above average. Now, if only Saku could accept the fact that he is no longer "The Man" and accept his reduced responsibilities, I think he could do well!

Interesting. How does Plekanec rank relative to the other 1st line C in the league, though?

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I think that the reason why we are being so harsh on Koivu is that we still see him as a 1st line centre. Koivu has been replaced by Plex as the 1st line centre. He is now our 2nd line centre, and as such, we should compare hiim to other 2nd line centres in the league.

Just for fun, i checked out the stats of the other 30 players who act as 2nd line centre for their respective teams, here are the top 10.

1. Malkin (Pitts) - 66pts

2. Brière (Phil) - 52pts

3. Stall (Car) - 48pts

4. Richards (TB) - 47pts

5. Fisher (Ott) - 42pts

6. Drury (NYR) - 39pts(has more goals than Saku)

7. KOIVU (MTL) - 39pts

8. Modano (Dal) - 37pts

9. Legwand (Nash) - 37pts

10. Kozlov (Wash) - 37pts

As you can see, Koivu is doing pretty well as a 2nd line centre. Considering that the average 2nd line centre in the league has 32.07 points, he is well above average. Now, if only Saku could accept the fact that he is no longer "The Man" and accept his reduced responsibilities, I think he could do well!

Thing is: Fisher, Drury, Modano can all play D...

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Thing is: Fisher, Drury, Modano can all play D...

But what is the relation in salaries as well?

1. Malkin (Pitts) - 66pts (3.8 M)

2. Brière (Phil) - 52pts (6.5 M)

3. Stall (Car) - 48pts (4.5 M)

4. Richards (TB) - 47pts (7.8 M)

5. Fisher (Ott) - 42pts (4.2 M)

6. Drury (NYR) - 39pts (7 M)

7. KOIVU (MTL) - 39pts (4.75 M)

8. Modano (Dal) - 37pts (3.45 M)

9. Legwand (Nash) - 37pts (4.5 M)

10. Kozlov (Wash) - 37pts (2.5 M)

Looking at what other teams are paying their second line centers is Koivu that bad? I think the problem is in the perception that he is our first line

centre. He is not anymore. But he is in the middle of the pack among salaries for 2nd line centers. How would you like to pay Brad Richards close

to 8 M per season for 8 more points and a -25? Or Drury 7M per?

Koivu can play better than he is and ascend to a top 5 second line centre. Let's hope he does, because we need it.

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Not that well... so we should all start bitching out Plekanec for not being good enough! :lol:

Hmm, hold on...

1- Lecavalier: 72 pts

2- Datsyuk: 65

Spezza: 65

3- Crosby: 63

4- Thornton: 62

5- Ribeiro: 61

6- Savard: 59

Getzlaf: 59

7- Sundin: 57

8- Jokinen: 55

9- Sedin: 54

10- Gomez: 52

Briere: 52

Plekanec: 52

So Plex (1,4M) is tied with two C's who make 10M$ per season each!

Edited by KoZed
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Hmm, hold on...

[/indent]So Plex (1,4M) is tied with two C's who make 10M$ per season each!

That's really great right now........but when his contract is up......Let's hope he can sustain those numbers and deserve that kind of money when his time comes.

Right on Pleks........ surprising player that just keeps getting better.

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This is impressive...all the moaning about the failure to sign Briere, and yet here we are, with a first-line a C who's got as many points as him, for a fraction of the cost and without the long-term contract :hockey:

The stats make me feel better, but all the same, the Koivu line has been dismal lately and no amount of number-crunching will change that. Still, interesting perspective - a good contribution to the thread. :clap:

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This is impressive...all the moaning about the failure to sign Briere, and yet here we are, with a first-line a C who's got as many points as him, for a fraction of the cost and without the long-term contract :hockey:

The stats make me feel better, but all the same, the Koivu line has been dismal lately and no amount of number-crunching will change that. Still, interesting perspective - a good contribution to the thread. :clap:

It just goes to show how improvement comes from within. You do not need to spend your brains out. The smart GMs stock their farm team

to allow themselves cheaper replacements when replaceable parts want big contracts.

Problem being that fans get attached to replaceable parts and upset when you let them walk. (ie why I hold and held my stance on letting Huet/Souray walk)

Remember that 5 months ago people wanted to resign Ryder because 30 goal scorers don't grow on trees. How would a 4 year 16M extension look right now?

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Remember that 5 months ago people wanted to resign Ryder because 30 goal scorers don't grow on trees. How would a 4 year 16M extension look right now?

Good point! But there were some signs that something wasn'T right with Ryder. after a 25 goal rookie season and back to back 30 goal seasons in his 2nd and 3rd years, why was Gainey still reluctant to offer Ryder more than a 1 year deal?

There is/was something fishy going on, and it might help to explain what happened to Ryder's scoring ability!?

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It just goes to show how improvement comes from within. You do not need to spend your brains out. The smart GMs stock their farm team

to allow themselves cheaper replacements when replaceable parts want big contracts.

Problem being that fans get attached to replaceable parts and upset when you let them walk. (ie why I hold and held my stance on letting Huet/Souray walk)

Remember that 5 months ago people wanted to resign Ryder because 30 goal scorers don't grow on trees. How would a 4 year 16M extension look right now?

True, that extension would be hideous right now, and probably lead to Ryder's assasination. But one wonders if Ryder may have had a better season thusfar, if a contract and some confidence in him were shown. Frame of mind is important for a player (See: Kovalev)

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Liek a few people already mentionned, I'd rather see Ryder playing up front and Dandy playing on defence than seeing Brisebois out there. Evertime he touches the puck, my heart stops!

Keep Higgins Ryder and Koivu together, maybe they'll find a way out of their funk together??

The real question is, can the Canadiens afford to waist 25 games waiting for these three to break out of their simultaneaous slumps???

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The real question is, can the Canadiens afford to waist 25 games waiting for these three to break out of their simultaneaous slumps???

Well they waited all of last season for Kovalev to break out of his why not 1/2 that time for the guy who has been leading this group of nobodies for the last 7-8 years?

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True, that extension would be hideous right now, and probably lead to Ryder's assasination. But one wonders if Ryder may have had a better season thusfar, if a contract and some confidence in him were shown. Frame of mind is important for a player (See: Kovalev)

Yeah, but Kovalev had the contract and the confidence in him already last season. Plus, every other season Ryder signed a one-year deal. He had all the motivation to go for the money with his UFA year coming up, so a poor frame of mind on his part can hardly be blamed on the organization.

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Good point! But there were some signs that something wasn'T right with Ryder. after a 25 goal rookie season and back to back 30 goal seasons in his 2nd and 3rd years, why was Gainey still reluctant to offer Ryder more than a 1 year deal?

There is/was something fishy going on, and it might help to explain what happened to Ryder's scoring ability!?

If i looks back on Ryder's first 3 years and including this one, about half of his points are tallied on the PP(98 points on PP,96 at even stregth or shorthanded). His icetime has decrease over 2 minutes this year, and i would say mostly on the PP where he has lost his spot. Ryder is the type of player that needs PP time and needs his linemates to set him up and we have seen that when he tries to create anything for himself it's pretty much a disaster.

It seems to me that if Ryder is to have success like before, he needs to find a team where he can help their PP.

Not sure if BG could see this forthcoming or if Ryder just played hardball, but it's definitely not put Ryder in a good situation for his upcoming free agent status.

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Let's see if the U.L.B. shows up to play against the Sens. That goes for his sidekick Higgins too. Ryder...I won't hold my breath on...but he's running out of chances to finish strong and create a market for himself for next season.

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If i looks back on Ryder's first 3 years and including this one, about half of his points are tallied on the PP(98 points on PP,96 at even stregth or shorthanded). His icetime has decrease over 2 minutes this year, and i would say mostly on the PP where he has lost his spot. Ryder is the type of player that needs PP time and needs his linemates to set him up and we have seen that when he tries to create anything for himself it's pretty much a disaster.

It seems to me that if Ryder is to have success like before, he needs to find a team where he can help their PP.

Not sure if BG could see this forthcoming or if Ryder just played hardball, but it's definitely not put Ryder in a good situation for his upcoming free agent status.

Good analysis but I don't think Ryder will have problems getting another chance. Maybe he will have to sign a lower contract, but if Samsonov can keep getting onto teams, Ryder won't have a problem. Lots of teams could use a sniping winger to boost their PP.

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Prediction: It may or may not happen in the next 3 games but it will happen. Koivu will deliver. :hlogo:

I agree...but the hour, as great man once said, is getting late. His total failure to step up against the Sens is uncharacteristic of the Saks we've known.

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I agree...but the hour, as great man once said, is getting late. His total failure to step up against the Sens is uncharacteristic of the Saks we've known.

Saku and his line did everything but put the puck in the net last night I was happy with what they did. I expect good things in Florida.

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Koivu to Calgary for Alex Taungay. Sounds like a damn good trade to me. Koivu is so weak on the puck.

Odd thing is..... that is the same complaint out of Calgary with Tanguay.

What's the difference then?

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