BC's new Carbon Tax

[Zowpeb]

http://news.sympatico.msn.ctv.ca/TopStorie...2fbc_tax_080219

Now, I don't live in BC but perhaps someone can explain to me why in the world you would charge a Carbon Tax and then give that money($1.8 Billion over 3 years) back to residents...what does that accomplish?

Further, they are giving out a $100 Climate Dividend to adults and $30 to children...that they "hope" will be spent on a "greener" lifestyle. Seems more then a little ridiculous considering it's likely that 90% of that money will go to other things...

Environmentalism is the new mythology that companies and politicians are using to "Buy" votes and business...most of the stuff these guys promote/shill is nothing more then snake oil...and people are eating it up, it makes them feel good because they think they are doing something positive but the reality is they are being misinformed, misled and are actually not improving anything.

The first thing the government needs to do is actually start educating people and forcing business to make quantifiable information available on why tech/products are green. Of course that would mean they couldn't pull the wool over the voters eyes or find some kickback from industry...

BLEH.

[Pierre the Great]

Its the BC Liberals they're afraid of olympic cost overruns i.e. the boondoggle that is the Convention Centre and they're afraid of the giant holes in Gordo's green plan (billions for sea to sky which will create more cars, a new highway bridge) etc.

Basically the 100 bucks has nothing to do with being green. It's an election ploy for next year because they're afraid they'll lose their majority to the NDP.

"NDP finance critic Bruce Ralston said the new tax will hurt average families already struggling to get by as big polluters get a break.

"The tax doesn't capture the full spectrum of emissions. [it] will hit consumers and average families the hardest as large industrial polluters get a pass and a handout," Ralston said.

"That's unfair and even the government admits it will accomplish little in the way of reducing actual emissions," he said.

"This budget puts all of the burden on individuals instead of big polluters. Clearly, the industrial lobbyists won in the backrooms."

That's pretty much been the BC NDP's position for as long as I can remember. We've already the environmental tax on large vehicles. This won't do anything except tax the working class.

[Zowpeb]

I'm surprised this isn't an NDP plan actually...it's classic income redistribution at it's worst because it doesn't actually tax the worst abusers. This is similar to a ploy the NDP is famous for..."let's tax these people so we can give money to our voter base...even though the money is so tied up in beauracracy they'll never really see any value in it thus keeping them dependent on us pitching this scheme(like a crack addict...lol)"

I also fully fail to see the benefit of taxing people and then giving the money back...instead of a tax break they could fund research on green technologies through the universities. Or offer incentives to people who actually CUT emissions...thus making green technology more viable and the boost in sales would help to drive fixed costs lower per product sold thus enticing even more people to purchase said technology...lots of better things to do with the money then to tax people only to give it back...just a waste of effort.

[Pierre the Great]

I'm surprised this isn't an NDP plan actually...it's classic income redistribution at it's worst because it doesn't actually tax the worst abusers. This is similar to a ploy the NDP is famous for..."let's tax these people so we can give money to our voter base...even though the money is so tied up in beauracracy they'll never really see any value in it thus keeping them dependent on us pitching this scheme(like a crack addict...lol)"

I also fully fail to see the benefit of taxing people and then giving the money back...instead of a tax break they could fund research on green technologies through the universities. Or offer incentives to people who actually CUT emissions...thus making green technology more viable and the boost in sales would help to drive fixed costs lower per product sold thus enticing even more people to purchase said technology...lots of better things to do with the money then to tax people only to give it back...just a waste of effort.

why isn't the NDP supporting this? BC NDP always has said its pointless to go after the regular folks when the real action is industry (which is a universal agreement) Ontario NDP has said the same thing, they're against carbon taxes.

BC NDP is non Vancouver based, always has been always will be. The Liberals are all Vancouver, that's their focus and focus only. Who ever is the NPA mayor of Vancouver becomes eventual leader of the BC Liberals. Sam Sullivan though is hated by everyone so he doesn't have much of a provincial future.

Unless you live in Vancouver area Gordo the Sun King Campbell doesn't really care about you.

I'm surprised this isn't an NDP plan actually...it's classic income redistribution at it's worst because it doesn't actually tax the worst abusers. This is similar to a ploy the NDP is famous for...

hmm really? Which NDP are you talking about here? By the middle of next decade the NDP will be most likely governing 4 provinces out of the 10 provinces. So who exactly are you referring too?

Edited February 20, 2008 by Pierre the Great

[markierung]

why isn't the NDP supporting this? BC NDP always has said its pointless to go after the regular folks when the real action is industry (which is a universal agreement) Ontario NDP has said the same thing, they're against carbon taxes.

BC NDP is non Vancouver based, always has been always will be. The Liberals are all Vancouver, that's their focus and focus only. Who ever is the NPA mayor of Vancouver becomes eventual leader of the BC Liberals. Sam Sullivan though is hated by everyone so he doesn't have much of a provincial future.

Unless you live in Vancouver area Gordo the Sun King Campbell doesn't really care about you.

hmm really? Which NDP are you talking about here? By the middle of next decade the NDP will be most likely governing 4 provinces out of the 10 provinces. So who exactly are you referring too?

really, which ones. The only ones which they have a shot is BC, Sask and maybe Manitoba. And that's only a chance.

[Pierre the Great]

B.C., Sask, Manitoba, Nova Scotia

[Zowpeb]

hmm really? Which NDP are you talking about here? By the middle of next decade the NDP will be most likely governing 4 provinces out of the 10 provinces. So who exactly are you referring too?

Are you going to seriously try and say that the NDP doesn't run out every single income redistribution ploy available to their rolodex of reasons to buy the votes of the "poor"(see: any group they want to buy votes from)?

I'm surprised the NDP isn't jumping even harder on the Guaranteed Income debate...

To wrench this back to the climate issue at hand...

The ONLY way to control specific climate issues quickly is to focus on the people/business who harm the environment more then they should...tax them harder and then use those taxes to subsidize the R&D for green technology and help to fund those business/people(through rebates and low interest loans) who implement improvements to their useage. Then improve the education of the general public on the subjects, useage and technology.