Best Habs Goaltender of all-time!

[Chips]

ST. PATRICK takes this one for me. Not sure if we will see another goalie dominate with such passion and command such respect both on and off the ice. He has inspired many and many still model after him. His number should be retired next, he deserves that at the least.

GO HABS GO!

[Habsfan84]

I'm sure Patrick Roys number will be retired next since it is the Habs 100th aniversary next ear i expect to see 3 to 4 numbers retired next year.

[Wamsley01]

I'm sure Patrick Roys number will be retired next since it is the Habs 100th aniversary next ear i expect to see 3 to 4 numbers retired next year.

My bet is one.

33

[Habsfan84]

My bet is one.

33

C'mon only one on thir hundreth aniversary. I can see how you could see him getting it but i'm sure there are still lots of habs that still deserve their number retired.

[Wamsley01]

C'mon only one on thir hundreth aniversary. I can see how you could see him getting it but i'm sure there are still lots of habs that still deserve their number retired.

Who else are they going to retire?

Their is nobody else who deserves it post 70s dynasty but Roy.

Look at the way they have retired them

Dickie Moore

Yvan Cournoyer

Boom Boom Geoffrion

Serge Savard

Ken Dryden

Larry Robinson

Bob Gainey

You don't see a pattern there? Cournoyer slips out of order because he shares the number 12.

60s - 70s - 80s - ??

It will be Patrick Roy and probably nobody else

Edited March 10, 2008 by Wamsley01

[tokyohabs]

Favourite goalie was Dryden, more based on sentiment than anything - but he was an unreal clutch goalie, dazzling at his best, whatever we say about the team in front of him.

Best I've seen is Roy, never saw Plante or any before. My Grandfather always maintained Plante was other-worldly.

Only Roy deserves his # retired of post 70's players, as Wamsley says. Maybe they'll send up a few 'builder' banners, Blake, Pollock, Bowman, Senator Hartland Molson...but surely no other players.

[Habsfan84]

Carbs was a good captain.

[jackp]

I would say Plante or Tretiak as the best. Roy was hot and cold. As an example, I watched the RDS show about the Canadiens 1993 season. I had forgotten that most people wanted Roy traded that year. One guy even took out a billboard (!!!) saying "trade Roy" in French. Of course, all that changed after the 3rd game of the playoffs against the Nordiques. Roy had blown cold most of the year and for the first 2 games against the Nords. Then suddenly, as he was apt to do during his entire career, he got hot, and stayed hot for the rest of the playoffs.

I can think of other times when he wasn't so hot. Remember the unscreened winning goal from outside the blue line in the 7th game against the Bruins? ('92 or '91 - one of those years). How about his "guaranteed win" against Detroit when they scored 6 goals against him? Also he was rarely chosen for Team Canada and there was a reason the hockey minds had for that. Too up and down. Too hot and cold.

These things didn't happen with Plante, and Tretiak, well those Russian teams weren't too good on defense, but dynamite on offense. They depended on Tretiak to keep them in the game. I can remember one game against Canada, where we outshot them 20-3 or something like that in the first period, and were losing the game 1-0! We ended up losing by a big score.

Maybe I'll give the nod to Plante as Tretiak did have a bad year - the year the US won Olympic Gold (the "miracle on ice"). Tretiak wasn't the goalie in the US game because apparently, he wasn't playing well that year. I can remember a game in the forum during the twilight of Plante's career. It was against the Soviets. It was before the '72 series and our team was made up of juniors and minor league pros. We won the game 1-0, even though most of the game was played in our zone. The thing that stands up most in memory for me from that game, was near the end, when the Soviet players between faceoffs, were talking to each other, while looking down the ice at Plante. I'm not exaggerating when I say they were in awe.

- Jack

[Shu]

I would say Plante or Tretiak as the best. Roy was hot and cold. As an example, I watched the RDS show about the Canadiens 1993 season. I had forgotten that most people wanted Roy traded that year. One guy even took out a billboard (!!!) saying "trade Roy" in French. Of course, all that changed after the 3rd game of the playoffs against the Nordiques. Roy had blown cold most of the year and for the first 2 games against the Nords. Then suddenly, as he was apt to do during his entire career, he got hot, and stayed hot for the rest of the playoffs.

I can think of other times when he wasn't so hot. Remember the unscreened winning goal from outside the blue line in the 7th game against the Bruins? ('92 or '91 - one of those years). How about his "guaranteed win" against Detroit when they scored 6 goals against him? Also he was rarely chosen for Team Canada and there was a reason the hockey minds had for that. Too up and down. Too hot and cold.

These things didn't happen with Plante, and Tretiak, well those Russian teams weren't too good on defense, but dynamite on offense. They depended on Tretiak to keep them in the game. I can remember one game against Canada, where we outshot them 20-3 or something like that in the first period, and were losing the game 1-0! We ended up losing by a big score.

Maybe I'll give the nod to Plante as Tretiak did have a bad year - the year the US won Olympic Gold (the "miracle on ice"). Tretiak wasn't the goalie in the US game because apparently, he wasn't playing well that year. I can remember a game in the forum during the twilight of Plante's career. It was against the Soviets. It was before the '72 series and our team was made up of juniors and minor league pros. We won the game 1-0, even though most of the game was played in our zone. The thing that stands up most in memory for me from that game, was near the end, when the Soviet players between faceoffs, were talking to each other, while looking down the ice at Plante. I'm not exaggerating when I say they were in awe.

- Jack

This is about habs goalies. Although Tretiak was absolutely amazing.

Patrick Roy was the greatest goalie in habs history, in my opinion.

[Athlétique.Canadien]

IMO: Let's all remember that Plante virtually invented roaming. Before Plante, all goalies stayed in the crease. Plante was the one who started freezing the puck or playing it behind the net. When it came to technique, Plante revolutionized the position moreso than Roy. Roy was more the developer and set the standard of the typical butterfly.

Plante and Roy for me. Although I loved Dryden's kick save technique.

[Habsfan]

My bet is one.

33

C'mon only one on thir hundreth aniversary. I can see how you could see him getting it but i'm sure there are still lots of habs that still deserve their number retired.

Wamsley is absolutely right. Nobody else deserves to have their number retired. All the important players of the 70's dynasty have been retired, and nobody really deserves it who played in the 80's and 90's except for Roy.

If the Habs play a home game on March 3rd 2009, you can bet they'll be raising number 33 to the rafters of the Temple and King Patrick will finally come back home!

Maybe they'll send up a few 'builder' banners, Blake, Pollock, Bowman, Senator Hartland Molson...but surely no other players.

I always thought they should do something like that to honor great coaches and G.M.'s.

I'd put up banners for Blake, Bowman and Pollock...just to honor the incredible contribution these men have brought to the Habs. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to say thank you to Scotty while he's still alive!!!

Edited March 10, 2008 by Habsfan

[Wamsley01]

I would say Plante or Tretiak as the best. Roy was hot and cold. As an example, I watched the RDS show about the Canadiens 1993 season. I had forgotten that most people wanted Roy traded that year. One guy even took out a billboard (!!!) saying "trade Roy" in French. Of course, all that changed after the 3rd game of the playoffs against the Nordiques. Roy had blown cold most of the year and for the first 2 games against the Nords. Then suddenly, as he was apt to do during his entire career, he got hot, and stayed hot for the rest of the playoffs.

I can think of other times when he wasn't so hot. Remember the unscreened winning goal from outside the blue line in the 7th game against the Bruins? ('92 or '91 - one of those years). How about his "guaranteed win" against Detroit when they scored 6 goals against him? Also he was rarely chosen for Team Canada and there was a reason the hockey minds had for that. Too up and down. Too hot and cold.

These things didn't happen with Plante, and Tretiak, well those Russian teams weren't too good on defense, but dynamite on offense. They depended on Tretiak to keep them in the game. I can remember one game against Canada, where we outshot them 20-3 or something like that in the first period, and were losing the game 1-0! We ended up losing by a big score.

Maybe I'll give the nod to Plante as Tretiak did have a bad year - the year the US won Olympic Gold (the "miracle on ice"). Tretiak wasn't the goalie in the US game because apparently, he wasn't playing well that year. I can remember a game in the forum during the twilight of Plante's career. It was against the Soviets. It was before the '72 series and our team was made up of juniors and minor league pros. We won the game 1-0, even though most of the game was played in our zone. The thing that stands up most in memory for me from that game, was near the end, when the Soviet players between faceoffs, were talking to each other, while looking down the ice at Plante. I'm not exaggerating when I say they were in awe.

- Jack

Roy was cut from the 87 Canada Cup team in favour of Ron Hextall and Kelly Hrudey. But Roy was coming off a subpar sophomore year while the 87 playoffs contained

Hrudey's 4 OT classic against the Caps and Hextall had just won the Conn Smythe trophy. No shame there.

As far as 91, 96 and 2002, Roy declined every single one of those invites. In 2002 Gretzky was openly calling him out trying to get him to play.

So to claim that the "hockey minds felt he was inconsistent" is storytelling on your part.

Also, Tretiak did start the Miracle on Ice game and for some ridiculous reason was yanked after the first period and replaced by Myshkin. Once again, could you please

find me the proof of this bad year that is not based on your conjecture please.

[jackp]

Roy was cut from the 87 Canada Cup team in favour of Ron Hextall and Kelly Hrudey. But Roy was coming off a subpar sophomore year while the 87 playoffs contained

Hrudey's 4 OT classic against the Caps and Hextall had just won the Conn Smythe trophy. No shame there.

As far as 91, 96 and 2002, Roy declined every single one of those invites. In 2002 Gretzky was openly calling him out trying to get him to play.

So to claim that the "hockey minds felt he was inconsistent" is storytelling on your part.

Also, Tretiak did start the Miracle on Ice game and for some ridiculous reason was yanked after the first period and replaced by Myshkin. Once again, could you please

find me the proof of this bad year that is not based on your conjecture please.

Maybe my memory is faulty, but I only remember Roy turning down ONE Team Canada invite.

As far as the bad year is concerned, RDS has been showing a documentary on the 1993 season. Try to catch it or get a hold of the DVD (if they make it available) or see if anyone here has recorded it. They state it quite clearly.

You haven't commented on my other Roy mishaps. Here's another, in his entire career, I believe he only won 2 game 7s. He lost at least 4 (that I can directly remember). People get carried away with Roy because when he was hot (which admittedly was often), he was incredible. But he had cold periods too, where he ranged from ordinary to brutal.

I feel a bit uncomfortable pointing out Roy's weaknesses. No doubt, he was a great goalie... Just not as good as Plante who was much more consistent.

(People tend to get carried away with contemporary players. I can remember the same kind of debate going on regarding Dryden and Plante during the 1970s. Ditto with Lafleur and the Rocket.)

- Jack

[Wamsley01]

Maybe my memory is faulty, but I only remember Roy turning down ONE Team Canada invite.

As far as the bad year is concerned, RDS has been showing a documentary on the 1993 season. Try to catch it or get a hold of the DVD (if they make it available) or see if anyone here has recorded it. They state it quite clearly.

You haven't commented on my other Roy mishaps. Here's another, in his entire career, I believe he only won 2 game 7s. He lost at least 4 (that I can directly remember). People get carried away with Roy because when he was hot (which admittedly was often), he was incredible. But he had cold periods too, where he ranged from ordinary to brutal.

I feel a bit uncomfortable pointing out Roy's weaknesses. No doubt, he was a great goalie... Just not as good as Plante who was much more consistent.

(People tend to get carried away with contemporary players. I can remember the same kind of debate going on regarding Dryden and Plante during the 1970s. Ditto with Lafleur and the Rocket.)

- Jack

Roy turned down 91, 96 and 2002. I know because I was pissed at him every single time.

I have that 93 Recap on DVD. He had a terrible year. The stupid fans and media wanted to replace him with Racicot. We saw how bright that decision would have been.

Roy was not perfect, but neither was Plante. If you want to look at results then Dryden is your man. He won 6 Cups in 8 years. He has very little blemishes on his record,

but he played on arguably the greatest team of all-time. All goalies blow hot and cold, all goalies lose Game 7s, all goalies have bad years.

No goalies have won 3 Conn Smythe trophies.

As far as the Game 7s. He won two Game 7 OT thrillers against the Whalers. One in 86 (Lemieux OT winner) one in 92 (Courtnall OT winner). The Habs did win a Game 7 in 87

against Quebec but I believe Hayward was in net. As a Habs he lost to the Bruins in 5 in 88, Flames in 6 in 89, Bruins in 5 in 90, Bruins in 7 in 91, Bruins in 4 in 92 and Bruins in 7 in 94.

The series in 1994 was the year he had an appendicitis and missed a game or two.

As for The Avs he lost to the Wings in 6 in 97, the Oilers in 7 in 98, Stars in 7 in 99, Wings in 7 in 2001 and the Wild in 7 in 2003.

So that is 6 losses in Game 7. But your info on his Game 7 record is way off. He was a .500 goalie in Game 7s.

During the 2002 playoffs they beat San Jose and LA in 7. During the 2001 Stanley Cup Championship

he beat LA in 7 and won Game 7 of the Stanley Cup Finals. Actually outdueled Brodeur with all the marbles on the line.

So his record is actually 6-6 in Game 7s. (2-2 with the Habs).

You are supporting your arguments with statements that have very little basis in fact. I have no proof about him turning down Team Canada, so

that point is your memory against mine.

I accept all arguments for Plante and Dryden. I am sure I could create a solid case for all three. But looking at all 3, I go with Patrick Roy.

Edited March 10, 2008 by Wamsley01

[Habsfan]

No goalies have won 3 Conn Smythe trophies.

Correction! No PLAYER has ever won 3 conn Smythe trophies...not Gretzky, not Howe, Not Lemieux, not Orr, not Richard, NOBODY except for Roy.

As for The Avs he lost to the Wings in 6 in 97, the Oilers in 7 in 98, Stars in 7 in 99, Wings in 7 in 2001 and the Wild in 7 in 2003.

It would be kinda hard for him to lose a game 7 in 2001 vs. the wings seeing as the Avalanche won the cup that year!

[Wamsley01]

Correction! No PLAYER has ever won 3 conn Smythe trophies...not Gretzky, not Howe, Not Lemieux, not Orr, not Richard, NOBODY except for Roy.

It would be kinda hard for him to lose a game 7 in 2001 vs. the wings seeing as the Avalanche won the cup that year!

Ooops, I meant 2002. That was the 6-0 meltdown after the statue of liberty hot dog in game 6

Edited March 10, 2008 by Wamsley01

[bigbird19]

Dryden's 50 losses in 8 years is filthy. More carreer ties than losses ??

But given the team he had back then, my vote is for St. Pat.

GP W L T GAA SO

DRYDEN 397 225 50 61 2.23 40

ROY 1029 528 297 128 2.50 65

[smon]

Dryden seems to have been quite the character. See him in the House of Commons today and it would not be out of the question to see him as some kind of professor (mind you, he is a lawyer)

Anyhow - I'll go with Roy.

[Colin]

I would never be so bold as to say who I felt was the best goalie the Habs ever had, however I will say this: Patrick Roy might have been the strongest goalie *mentally* that the Habs have had - and by a long shot. He may have let in a bad goal here and there, but I don't know of any other goalie that was able to shrug them off when he had to. I'm not saying he was mentally strong all the time, but when he made a decision? Done and done. Over the long haul, I'd probably prefer others to him, but when he looked at you and said, "That's it, nothing else is going in, just go out and win the game," that was money in the bank.

Perhaps that all goes with being the cockiest goalie of all time, but in sports the line between cocky/arrogant and extremely self-confident is blurred to the point of being unneeded. When Roy got into THAT game mode? Just deliver the Cup already.

Ooo, someone should ask this question about defenders. I'll shock EVERYONE.

[sbhatt]

Roy

[bigbird19]

Rogers

[Athlétique.Canadien]

Ooops, I meant 2002. That was the 6-0 meltdown after the statue of liberty hot dog in game 6

Ewww, that was awful. I was watching the game live and I responded with "Oh no". :puke:

[BCHabnut]

Dryden was an important member of one of, if not the most elite team of all time. 1977 Habs. Plante played with the greatest dynasty and probably the runner up for best team of all time. Early Oilers would get honorable mention. My point is that these goalies were definitely great, but the team in front of them was phenominal. The 1986 and 93 Habs were not expected to win anything. Roy was the player that made them winners. Dryden and Plante had an entire team of elites in front of them. I really feel that Roy was the best goalie to ever play for the Habs.

[Wamsley01]

I would never be so bold as to say who I felt was the best goalie the Habs ever had, however I will say this: Patrick Roy might have been the strongest goalie *mentally* that the Habs have had - and by a long shot. He may have let in a bad goal here and there, but I don't know of any other goalie that was able to shrug them off when he had to. I'm not saying he was mentally strong all the time, but when he made a decision? Done and done. Over the long haul, I'd probably prefer others to him, but when he looked at you and said, "That's it, nothing else is going in, just go out and win the game," that was money in the bank.

Perhaps that all goes with being the cockiest goalie of all time, but in sports the line between cocky/arrogant and extremely self-confident is blurred to the point of being unneeded. When Roy got into THAT game mode? Just deliver the Cup already.

Ooo, someone should ask this question about defenders. I'll shock EVERYONE.

Lyle Odelein or Karl Dykhuis. To close to call

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Hey, I'm disappointed that nobody picked up on my Bill Durnan argument. His record is nearly as unblemished as Dryden's. Actually, the two had rather similar careers...both very short...both marked by massive excellence. But Durnan was team captain (! ) and had the funky ambidextrous thing happening. Ah well.

As some have already observed, it makes little sense to make comparisons across generations in terms of on-ice ability. Today's goalies are exceedingly well-coached instead of being self-taught; they are on fitness and workout regimens; they have advantages of videotape, etc; and use vastly better equipment. I have no doubt that even an average goalie of today would probably at least rival the greats of the past, in terms of performance on the ice. The same is true of position players. And statistics like save % and GAA are grossly crude indicators, because the way the game is played varies so much from epoch to epoch. Even things like Cup wins aren't pure indicators of anything other than supremacy *in the particular context in which a player found himself.* But then again, that's what matters.

I go with Plante because his record suggests that he was at least as dominant in his context as Roy was in his, even factoring in the more numerous competition faced by the latter. For instance: Roy was OWNED by Andy Moog for four playoff series in the late 80s-early 90s. I'm unaware of a comparable scenario for Plante. But - more importantly - there is no way that Roy's impact on the game rival's Plante's. The roving goalie and the mask were courageous innovations, in defiance of coaches and conventional wisdom, whose impact exceeds that of the butterfly. Since they both had awesome performance, that's the difference-maker for me. (Still, that 3 Conn Smythes are very impressive).

As for those who would use stats to question Roy's greatness: his regular season stats were so-so. But check out his playoff numbers and get back to me, because those were stratospheric.

(I can remember Roy's glory days very clearly. I also remember that A LOT of Montreal fans didn't like him, well before his substandard 1993 regular season. Many never forgave him for letting in spectacularly weak goals from time to time, nor for inconsistency - e.g., his 1987 and 1992 playoffs were pretty feeble. And of course some Anglos disliked him because the French made such a big deal out of him. I maintained at the time that these people were morons but it's interesting how hindsight clarifies a greatness not so obvious at the time).

Incidentally, Wamsley is absolutely right, #33 will be retired next season, and that will be the last sweater retired for a looooong time to come.

Edited March 10, 2008 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber