BC RCMP subdue hospitalized man, 82, with Taser

[Athlétique.Canadien]

RCMP subdue hospitalized man, 82, with Taser - Kamloops, BC

RCMP said nurses called police after Lasser became delirious and pulled a knife out of his pocket.

Lasser told CBC News that he sometimes become delusional when he can't breathe properly. He said he couldn't explain why he refused to let go of the knife even after the Mounties arrived.

"I was laying on the bed by then and the corporal came in, or the sergeant, I forget which it was, and said to the guys, 'OK, get him because we got more important work to do on the street tonight,'" Lasser said.

"And then, bang, bang, bang, three times with the laser, and I tell you, I never want that again."

What is this world coming to?

[jetsniper]

Haha, thats morbidly funny.

Just walk up to him and take it out of his hands, whats with police being so trigger happy with the taser lately.

[Pierre the Great]

Well at least they didn't kick him in the head...

[Captain_Stealth]

I'm starting to believe the world is going to end in 2012.

[Zowpeb]

Sounds like he's fine from your post...what's the problem?

Why should a cop try to take it away from him by hand and risk being stabbed? Or risk the guy stabbing himself?

They knew the taser would work and they used it...

Everyone thinks Taser's are so terrible. The cops know how to use it effectively and they did. It's a non-issue.

If they mis-used it or used it unnecessarily then you take issue...I don't see that in this case.

JMHO.

[jetsniper]

Sounds like he's fine from your post...what's the problem?

Why should a cop try to take it away from him by hand and risk being stabbed? Or risk the guy stabbing himself?

They knew the taser would work and they used it...

Everyone thinks Taser's are so terrible. The cops know how to use it effectively and they did. It's a non-issue.

If they mis-used it or used it unnecessarily then you take issue...I don't see that in this case.

JMHO.

Did you see his picture? It's an 82 year old man in a hospital. Unless the cop has his head up his ass, theres no potential way for the cop to come close to being stabbed. Especially when theres three of them.

[RobRock]

Sounds like he's fine from your post...what's the problem?

Why should a cop try to take it away from him by hand and risk being stabbed? Or risk the guy stabbing himself?

They knew the taser would work and they used it...

Everyone thinks Taser's are so terrible. The cops know how to use it effectively and they did. It's a non-issue.

If they mis-used it or used it unnecessarily then you take issue...I don't see that in this case.

JMHO.

Three times? Three times is using it effectively? Tasers are supposed to immobilize the target momentarily so that other officers can disarm and arrest them. How poorly conditioned are these guys where they can't disarm the octogenarian hospital patient after one Taser shot. Why not pepper spray first?

[Fanpuck33]

Why not pepper spray first?

Not supposed to use pepper spray in a hospital.

[JLP]

the geezer has learned that he will be hurt if he does not respect authority and all those reading the story realize if it can happen to an 82 year-old lying in a hospital bed it can happen to them at a stoplight or while buying a package of gum. authorities got to spread the fear so people will comply without reservation or we can't properly construct the new fascism.

[Zowpeb]

Did you see his picture? It's an 82 year old man in a hospital. Unless the cop has his head up his ass, theres no potential way for the cop to come close to being stabbed. Especially when theres three of them.

Really...have you ever tried to disarm someone? I don't care if he's 82 years old...a delusional knife wielding person can hurt you, himself possibly other patients. My grandfather is 82 almost years old and I can 100% guarantee you that he could still do some damage if he was holding a knife.

Frankly, your comments are ignorant.

Everyone wants to blame authority and call it facism or cry out in disgust against the police...but the REALITY is that there was a delusional man in a hospital threatening people with a knife. It is also a fact that he's fine...so the tasering worked. It subdued the man without undue harm. I would ask why you think this event is a problem given the actual outcome?

Further: Were there other patients and nurses in the room? Was the man also considered a threat to himself? Why was he in the hospital to begin with? Lots of questions would need to be answered before I'd side against the police...

You point to a picture of the man...sure he looks harmless now, AFTER being tasered. For all anyone here knows he was relatively capable while wielding the knife.

[JLP]

Really...have you ever tried to disarm someone? I don't care if he's 82 years old...a delusional knife wielding person can hurt you, himself possibly other patients. My grandfather is 82 almost years old and I can 100% guarantee you that he could still do some damage if he was holding a knife.

I have never tried to disarm someone but I'm not a cop. Yeah your Grandpa might hurt me, so a more appropriate intervention would be by a cop, or three of them as in this case. And just because the geezer didn't die does not mean the tasering was justified.

[Pierre the Great]

Really...have you ever tried to disarm someone? I don't care if he's 82 years old...a delusional knife wielding person can hurt you, himself possibly other patients. My grandfather is 82 almost years old and I can 100% guarantee you that he could still do some damage if he was holding a knife.

Frankly, your comments are ignorant.

Everyone wants to blame authority and call it facism or cry out in disgust against the police...but the REALITY is that there was a delusional man in a hospital threatening people with a knife. It is also a fact that he's fine...so the tasering worked. It subdued the man without undue harm. I would ask why you think this event is a problem given the actual outcome?

Further: Were there other patients and nurses in the room? Was the man also considered a threat to himself? Why was he in the hospital to begin with? Lots of questions would need to be answered before I'd side against the police...

You point to a picture of the man...sure he looks harmless now, AFTER being tasered. For all anyone here knows he was relatively capable while wielding the knife.

I wouldn't call the comments ignorant because the 82 year old man in this story is a retired Prison guard. I believe the old guy more then the RCMP head who says we treat everyone the same no matter the age (next step tasering a 5 year old). I'm sure the prison guard aka the 82 year old knows how to subdue someone without potentially lethal force.

[Zowpeb]

I wouldn't call the comments ignorant because the 82 year old man in this story is a retired Prison guard. I believe the old guy more then the RCMP head who says we treat everyone the same no matter the age (next step tasering a 5 year old). I'm sure the prison guard aka the 82 year old knows how to subdue someone without potentially lethal force.

Even better...being a retired prison guard means he knew how to handle a weapon.

Nurses were saying he was delusional...would you want to take the chance that he would simply have wanted to "subdue" the police officers who were actually trying to subdue him...

Why do you guys feel the need to defend the some delusional, knife wielding, ex-prison guard and say that the police should have been "nice" and tried to disarm him by hand... just because everyone "knows" tasers are "bad, bad" lethal weapons in the hands of crazy cops??? Oh, wait they actually used a tool at their disposal in an effective manner and controlled the situation...<sarcasm>oh, well, cops are just putting up the blue wall and they busted me for underage drinking so I hate them so clearly it must be their fault...</sarcasm>

Do you guys always blame the cops or are you just big criminal rights activists? Last time I checked, threatening people with a knife is a crime...

[Pierre the Great]

82 without his medicine he gets into fits. If this was 22 with a violent past then okay.

Traffic cops in BC have admitted to using tasers for traffic violations. Seriously, BC RCMP policy needs to change.

[JLP]

I think I have the benefit of objectivity -- I grew up in North America but have lived in Asia for most of my adult life. The culture in the United States is increasingly violent and mediated, and unfortunately but not surprisingly that reality is seeping over the border into Canada. For example the glut of graphic crime scene investigation programs, or amateur or surveillance filmed terrific accident videos (where motorists are shown being killed), cop beatings and so on -- watching violence is de-sensitizing people to what violence really is. Viewed from over here, North America looks like a society of the spectacle, resembling Guy Debord's writings from the 1950s.

Tasers are just one part of the problem -- the attitude that violence is the answer for everything is what is at the center. That three professional police officers would choose to subdue a (hospitalized) 82 year-old man by firing potentially lethal stun guns, just reinforces that for me.

[Zowpeb]

82 without his medicine he gets into fits. If this was 22 with a violent past then okay.

Traffic cops in BC have admitted to using tasers for traffic violations. Seriously, BC RCMP policy needs to change.

I thought all you left wing, politically correct, types were against broad brush strokes like this...I guess being a cop isn't a race so it's justified...

[Zowpeb]

I think I have the benefit of objectivity -- I grew up in North America but have lived in Asia for most of my adult life. The culture in the United States is increasingly violent and mediated, and unfortunately but not surprisingly that reality is seeping over the border into Canada. For example the glut of graphic crime scene investigation programs, or amateur or surveillance filmed terrific accident videos (where motorists are shown being killed), cop beatings and so on -- watching violence is de-sensitizing people to what violence really is. Viewed from over here, North America looks like a society of the spectacle, resembling Guy Debord's writings from the 1950s.

Tasers are just one part of the problem -- the attitude that violence is the answer for everything is what is at the centre. That three professional police officers would choose to subdue a (hospitalized) 82 year-old man by firing potentially lethal stun guns, just reinforces that for me.

I agree that people are becoming desensitized to the violence but I believe it's happening all over the world. Violence isn't exactly an uncommon resolution in Asia either...lol.

However, I don't see how Tasers are part of the problem. The problem is one of policy, training and education.

There have been a couple of bad instances with Tasers and the public thinks all cops are evil taser happy idiots. The reality is clearly quite different. Every single study has shown Taser's to be an effective tool in disabling or subduing someone. Even in this instance, the reaction on this board has been over the top...but no one wants to look beyond the headline to see that the guy is actually fine. In other words, the tool worked as it was supposed to work.

I suppose everyone would be happier if they attempted to disarm him by cracking down on his forearm with a nightstick...likely breaking his arm or wrist...because that's likely how they would have had to disarm him. You all watch too many Jackie Chan movies if you think they would have danced in and neatly disarmed him and then had tea together...

[JLP]

I agree that people are becoming desensitized to the violence but I believe it's happening all over the world. Violence isn't exactly an uncommon resolution in Asia either...lol.

However, I don't see how Tasers are part of the problem. The problem is one of policy, training and education.

There have been a couple of bad instances with Tasers and the public thinks all cops are evil taser happy idiots. The reality is clearly quite different. Every single study has shown Taser's to be an effective tool in disabling or subduing someone. Even in this instance, the reaction on this board has been over the top...but no one wants to look beyond the headline to see that the guy is actually fine. In other words, the tool worked as it was supposed to work.

I suppose everyone would be happier if they attempted to disarm him by cracking down on his forearm with a nightstick...likely breaking his arm or wrist...because that's likely how they would have had to disarm him. You all watch too many Jackie Chan movies if you think they would have danced in and neatly disarmed him and then had tea together...

Zow, don't want to get into the details of your post, but consider -- if it was your Grandad or Granny and the cops took the time to deal with him/her patiently and moved other people away and talked and comforted him/her instead of simply zapping away with 50,000 volts, you would appreciate that no? In the Dziekanski case the cops used the gun 30 seconds after arriving on the scene and killed the guy 'cos he had tossed a table. C'mon, life is worth more than that. Cops watch the population and someone has to watch the cops, that's what's happening. What's wrong with weeding out bad cops? Are they above reproach?

[Zowpeb]

Zow, don't want to get into the details of your post, but consider -- if it was your Grandad or Granny and the cops took the time to deal with him/her patiently and moved other people away and talked and comforted him/her instead of simply zapping away with 50,000 volts, you would appreciate that no? In the Dziekanski case the cops used the gun 30 seconds after arriving on the scene and killed the guy 'cos he had tossed a table. C'mon, life is worth more than that. Cops watch the population and someone has to watch the cops, that's what's happening. What's wrong with weeding out bad cops? Are they above reproach?

I have no problem weeding out bad cops. All for it...there obviously needs to be a check and balance against every position of authority and power.

The problem I see is that everyone is going off the deep end blaming police officers when no ill effect has resulted in how they handled a delusional man with a knife.

You have all assumed an 82 year old man is a complete cripple...this is not necessarily true. Now PTG points out he's also a former prison guard which implies he knows how to handle a weapon. We also know he was delusional...meaning he may have been paranoid, hallucinating or more. Still, everyone here thinks the cops are to blame despite the man being fine after the incident. For all everyone here knows the man was about to stab himself in the neck, stab another patient, a nurse or was attempting to already strike at an officer. Sure he may not be real fast and strong as an 82 year old but if he knows how to handle a knife he could do some damage to anyone...

I am not talking about the Dziekanski case here...this is a separate incident. It's something everyone seems to have forgotten as they lump "tasers" and "cops" into the same boat in every incident. There are tens of thousands of police officers and likely thousands of tasers in police hands. We've seen 1 real bad incident in recent memory and this becomes the reaction to cops resolving a dispute effectively with the same tool.

You assume they didn't try to talk him down.

And for the record, if it was my grandfather who was holding the knife, and he was fine after the fact, I'd shake the hands of the police officer who resolved the incident without anyone being seriously hurt.

[Pierre the Great]

Canadian police have been brainwashed, Taser inquiry told

CALGARY (CBC) - Canadian law enforcement agencies have swallowed the propaganda of the company that manufactures Tasers, an expert testified Tuesday at a public inquiry in Vancouver examining police use of the weapons.

Dr. Michael Webster, a Vancouver-based psychologist who works as a consultant on crisis negotiation with various Canadian and U.S. law enforcement agencies, said he is embarrassed by the way Canadian officers have been using Tasers.

"I am embarrassed to be associated with organizations that Taser sick old men in hospital beds and confused immigrants arriving to the country. Frankly I find it embarrassing," he said.

Officers are reaching for Tasers when communication and non-life threatening responses could do the trick, Webster testified. He told the inquiry there is only one situation where a Taser might be appropriate.

"That would be the last thing before you have to shoot somebody," Webster testified.

http://forums.habsworld.net/index.php?show...mp;#entry295908

[JLP]

I'm also embarrassed, Canadians deserve better and are right to demand better. Go Canada Go!

[Zowpeb]

Again...the good doctor ignores the fact that "talking the delusional man down", if what was even possible (and no one has said they didn't try...), would not work. He also ignores the fact that this 'sick old man' was not in his hospital bed at the time, was carrying a knife AND the end result has left him COMPLETELY FINE, everyone is safe, he's disarmed and back on his meds. I guess the facts are too convenient for people with an agenda.