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The Chicoutimi Cucumber

Sundin: will he sign here? (Take 2)

Mats: predict the outcome  

63 members have voted

  1. 1. Are we a-gettin' Big Mats?

    • Yes
      41
    • No
      18
    • I don't want him anyway
      4


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I'm also guilty of not reading through all the pages, frankly I don't

have the time.

I'm thinking this Sundin thing is becoming to much of a distraction.

If Gainey is serious about signing Brisebois you can forget about us

trading for Schneider.

Gainey did say he would listen to teams over the cap that want to

free space. This has Lang written all over it.

I just hope Gainey makes his move/s before camp.

And sign Komisarek to a longterm deal, ASAP!!!!!!!

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http://www.nhl.com/nhl/app?articleid=38106...mp;service=page

I officially have zero interest in Mats Sundin. He has come right out and said that he will not decide before the season starts. I have no interest in a player who will not commit to an entire season and will lose much of my respect for him if he goes through with it. Roger Clemens syndrome is becoming far too regular and it needs to stop.

Agreed. It's particularly ridiculous if Sundin decides to return to the NHL after the season starts, because he's the guy who didn't want to be dealt at the deadline because he wanted to be there from the beginning. Either retirement, or sabotaging the Leafs' chances at Tavares are looking like the best options. The Habs have waited long enough - and it's really not fair to a guy like Chipchura, who will hopefully be with our organization for years to come. Cut bait, go with Plan B, so everyone knows their role, and move forward.

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Agreed. It's particularly ridiculous if Sundin decides to return to the NHL after the season starts, because he's the guy who didn't want to be dealt at the deadline because he wanted to be there from the beginning. Either retirement, or sabotaging the Leafs' chances at Tavares are looking like the best options. The Habs have waited long enough - and it's really not fair to a guy like Chipchura, who will hopefully be with our organization for years to come. Cut bait, go with Plan B, so everyone knows their role, and move forward.

I agree that while I would like to have him, it is time to move on and see who we get ( a big centre) and let sundin go. I would say that decision has probably 95% been made and BOB is on the prowl as we talk. :hlogo: :clap:

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I don't know. I just don't like a well over the hill Lang at all. It just seems like settling. I'd rather Chipchura get his shot than settling on Lang.

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I'd rather Chipchura get his shot than settling on Lang.

I'd like to see Chipchura look like he actually belongs in the NHL before discounting any trades on account of his need for minutes.

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I know that Gainey has indicated that he'll be shopping, but frankly, we've already improved a team that won the conference last year, at least on paper. I would be in no hurry at all to add that elusive big C - at least give the team a chance to show how much it's improved, or if it has. Reassess sometime in December, I say, especially if Lang is plan B.

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I do think Lang might be someone that Gainey might be looking

to trade for. But, I agree with those of you that would rather

see Chipchura given quality icetime. Its not like playing Chipchura

would hurt our chances of making the playoffs.

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I don't think Lang can help us at all.

If we are looking at Chicago as a partner then perhaps there is a way to get Toews. I know Chicago has no desire to give him up but anything is possible.

We need an elite centre is what I am saying not a guy like Lang.

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Any reasonable man and team could share an agreement where the player doesn't have to

play the entire schedule. But this player has to be in the team system all that time.

That being said it is unreasonable that a player is paid more than is peers for a low dedication to

the team success.

Success in hockey comes from a team effort from every player into the team system and every game

won or loss is part of the entity that will be fighting for success.

That being said i am absolutely against Sundin showing up in January and wish the league can find the guts

to call a special meeting to stop this non-sense.

I will go back in time and take the Guy Lafleur come back with the Rangers. He went to the camp, won his spot

and more so came back in the Quebec city with Nordiques rebuilding and just came in for the love of the game

being the first one at the training in the morning and the last one to leave the ice. :clap:

Mario Lemieux, Stevie Yzerman, Chris Chelios, Joe Sakic, Doug Gilmour, Joe Nieuwendyk, Al McInnis,

Ray Bourque, Dave Andreychuk all ended their carreer with something they always had pride. That'S what

made them great.

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Didn't Carbonneau said something negative about player that join a team after the season has begun? Something about that kind of player never helped a team win the cup?

I think that by saying that he'll decide after the season has begun, Sundin closed the Montreal door. I think that in light of Carbo and Pierre Boivin comments, the team won't wait after the season has started and will go for plan B from now on.

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Sundin's desire for winning has to be in doubt with his about face on the training camp to glory take. I would rather move on. I actually almost expect that if he does come back mid-way through the year, it'll be to Vancouver or New York.

Bob seems like he's trying to swing for the fences, that's why Lang doesn't stirke me as a logical plan B. In that case, neither does Schneider, but I do think some personal connections could come into play with him.

Yes, Chipchura has to earn his spot. What I mean when I say I'd rather have Chipchura than Lang is just that... let's see what Chipchura can do before we settle on a placeholder like Lang. If Chipchura can't hold his own, well, then we expand our search to include guys like Lang. Right now, I still only want to focus on more elite guys rather than an aging second liner.

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Right now, I still only want to focus on more elite guys rather than an aging second liner.

Agreed...we already have an aging second liner in Koivu.

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Jeez a coupla months back Sundin proclaimed he planned to be at training camp. Frankly he's starting to look like a flake.

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I know that Gainey has indicated that he'll be shopping, but frankly, we've already improved a team that won the conference last year, at least on paper. I would be in no hurry at all to add that elusive big C - at least give the team a chance to show how much it's improved, or if it has. Reassess sometime in December, I say, especially if Lang is plan B.

Exactly. If we can't get someone better, see what Chipper can do with some ice time first, and if he's not holding up enough, THEN go after plan B, but give him a chance to see what he can do first, unless we see an opportunity to get someone great we can't refuse.

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Yes, Chipchura has to earn his spot. What I mean when I say I'd rather have Chipchura than Lang is just that... let's see what Chipchura can do before we settle on a placeholder like Lang.

That was my initial reaction to the Robert Lang rumors, however the more I think about, the more is makes sense to me. Lang is still is pretty good hockey player, he's a big centre with a right-hand shot. Also, if he develops good chemistry on his line, he might even prove to be our best centre. At the very least, he would provide great depth at the centre position in case of injury, and would add an offense element to the 3rd line that Chipchura or Lapierre probably won't be able to provide at this stage of their careers.

Also, unlike other better options (if there are any), he sholdn't cost much to acquire, the Hawks must get rid of some salaries, and are in no position to bargain. Sure, his salary is significant, but we have the cap room, and he'll be gone at the end of the season.

As for Chipchura, even with Robert Lang in Montreal, he could still secure a roster spot, bumping Steve Bégin off the lineup, and giving us a potentially very big and intimitading 4th line of Lapierre-Chipchura-Laraque.

The only "problem" if we acquire Lang is that playing all season on a 3rd line with limited power play ice time, we shouldn't expect more than 35-45 points out of him; with his salary, many fans and media will quickly jump on his back, and label him as a overpaid, no-good, end-of-the-road bust.

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That was my initial reaction to the Robert Lang rumors, however the more I think about, the more is makes sense to me. Lang is still is pretty good hockey player, he's a big centre with a right-hand shot. Also, if he develops good chemistry on his line, he might even prove to be our best centre. At the very least, he would provide great depth at the centre position in case of injury, and would add an offense element to the 3rd line that Chipchura or Lapierre probably won't be able to provide at this stage of their careers.

Also, unlike other better options (if there are any), he sholdn't cost much to acquire, the Hawks must get rid of some salaries, and are in no position to bargain. Sure, his salary is significant, but we have the cap room, and he'll be gone at the end of the season.

As for Chipchura, even with Robert Lang in Montreal, he could still secure a roster spot, bumping Steve Bégin off the lineup, and giving us a potentially very big and intimitading 4th line of Lapierre-Chipchura-Laraque.

The only "problem" if we acquire Lang is that playing all season on a 3rd line with limited power play ice time, we shouldn't expect more than 35-45 points out of him; with his salary, many fans and media will quickly jump on his back, and label him as a overpaid, no-good, end-of-the-road bust.

Well, I think Lang would be extremely useful in the build up to the playoffs. He's experienced, he's big (if not tough), he's good defensively and on draws, and he can *probably* step in for limited periods of time if one of our top centres goes down. He would be a good addition IF we get him for relatively little. While I'm sympathetic to giving Chips a chance, you'd be much wiser entering the playoffs with Lang than with a raw rookie in that role. That's a fact.

On the other hand, this is exactly the same kind of move that Gainey has made in each of the last three or four seasons. First it was Radek Bonk - a guy with a very similar profile (big, soft, with top-line experience but probably best cast as a third-line C). Then it was Bryan Smolinski (not big, but experienced and savvy, also with top-line experience, on paper a plausible third-line C and possible temporary replacement for an injured Koivu or Pleks). Lang will likely be exactly the same thing. The point is that a move like that does not address the fundamental problem, namely the absence of an elite scoring C with size.

In that sense, Lang is not Plan B at all. He's the answer to a completely different problem: the lack of a seasoned checking centreman and face-off man. If we do acquire him, he should be evaluated in those terms, not as a Sundin substitute. And I certainly don't think we need to be in any mad hurry to get him.

I continue to think that the absence of a Koivu replacement in our organization is the one Achillies' Heel that threatens the rebuild. Sooner or later, like it or not, Gainey is going to have to do something really bold to crack that nut. It doesn't look as though the UFA route will save us.

Edited by The Chicoutimi Cucumber

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Yeah, but that's more like playing a full season, but taking a game off a week to keep the body fresh. What Clemens and the lot are doing is more comparable to letting junior members of a firm do all the grunt work, do the opening arguments, cross examine witnesses and then you come in to interview the star witness and give closing arguments. It's totally unfair to the one doing all the work when you come in and take all the glory. I know you're not looking to get into trial law, but it was the easiest analogy.

what do you think actually happens at a firm :lol: ? You got everything right but opening arguments and the cross-examinations... The star lawyer will do the opener and the big crosses.

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On the other hand, this is exactly the same kind of move that Gainey has made in each of the last three or four seasons. First it was Radek Bonk - a guy with a very similar profile (big, soft, with top-line experience but probably best cast as a third-line C). Then it was Bryan Smolinski (not big, but experienced and savvy, also with top-line experience, on paper a plausible third-line C and possible temporary replacement for an injured Koivu or Pleks). Lang will likely be exactly the same thing. The point is that a move like that does not address the fundamental problem, namely the absence of an elite scoring C with size.

That's more a wet dream than a Plan A, which is what makes the possibility of signing Mats Sundin so exciting. Those big offensive centers are very rare (although a few have popped up in recent years, before they were almost non-existent), and once you get one, you hold on to him. In Sundin's case, you pretty much get a freebie, so people (including Carbonneau) can say whatever they want about not wanting a player if he doesn't start the season, if Sundin wants to play for Montreal in January, they'll all change their minds and kiss his big Swedish ass.

This is also why I mentionned that it could be interesting for Montreal to make a big sacrifice in trading Mike Komisarek for Jeff Carter, and that it would probably take no less to convince the Flyers to let him go. Similarly, prospects like Colton Gillies and Joe Colborne have done little to deserve all the hype about them, but they're so big and skilled that no one wants to miss the next Joe Thornton.

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Its obvious to me that we all share, the same fear.

As good as we think we are, centre is a concern,

whether it be short term or long.

Sundin being undecided about his future, effects us

only short term. He deserves the right to decide if he

wants to retire, if not, lets have cap space.

We really need to find out if Chipchura is that 3rd line

C we thought he was. He could be a longterm fit.

Geez, I hope Gainey doesn't trade for Lang at the expense

of Chipchura.

If we decide we want to trade someone, we don't want to

give up for a C, then lets make skill and not size be the

deciding issue. Think Detroit !!!

I hope someone has pointed out to Gainey that Phoenix

with the addition of O.Jokinen now has to move one of

Muller, Turris or Hanzal to wing.

Just my thoughts.

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Its obvious to me that we all share, the same fear.

As good as we think we are, centre is a concern,

whether it be short term or long.

Sundin being undecided about his future, effects us

only short term. He deserves the right to decide if he

wants to retire, if not, lets have cap space.

We really need to find out if Chipchura is that 3rd line

C we thought he was. He could be a longterm fit.

Geez, I hope Gainey doesn't trade for Lang at the expense

of Chipchura.

If we decide we want to trade someone, we don't want to

give up for a C, then lets make skill and not size be the

deciding issue. Think Detroit !!!

I hope someone has pointed out to Gainey that Phoenix

with the addition of O.Jokinen now has to move one of

Muller, Turris or Hanzal to wing.

Just my thoughts.

I'm all for Chips, screw Sundin....his ship in my eyes has sailed. It just won't be the same if he was to join now. The dedication I expected from him is way off the map from what I thought. As far as us all agreed as a group on "WE need a centre" I'm starting to think Saks might come to some serious life this year. Let's sit back and watch, the guy is a firecracker and I'm sure this summer,with all things considered, is lighting a fire under his butt. It's time.....he has Tanguay as a linemate, Higgins will step it up this year or loose his spot to Latty. While Pleks, Kovy and Big #### will have there own thing going on as support.........SUPPORT?............Saks has a linemate and SUPPORT?..........since when?

GO SAKS GO!!!!!!!!

I proclaim it's "THE YEAR OF THE SAKS" boys and girls.

Let's go with what we have F**CK SUNDIN! and I mean that!!!!!

Edited by SAKS-AVENUE

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Its obvious to me that we all share, the same fear.

As good as we think we are, centre is a concern,

whether it be short term or long.

Sundin being undecided about his future, effects us

only short term. He deserves the right to decide if he

wants to retire, if not, lets have cap space.

We really need to find out if Chipchura is that 3rd line

C we thought he was. He could be a longterm fit.

Geez, I hope Gainey doesn't trade for Lang at the expense

of Chipchura.

If we decide we want to trade someone, we don't want to

give up for a C, then lets make skill and not size be the

deciding issue. Think Detroit !!!

I hope someone has pointed out to Gainey that Phoenix

with the addition of O.Jokinen now has to move one of

Muller, Turris or Hanzal to wing.

Just my thoughts.

Is that a Habs anthem ?

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CerebusClone is right. The real issue is a Koivu replacement , period. While an elite C with size would be *ideal,* what we really need, and will need ever more desperately as Koivu ages, is an elite C, period, whether small or large of stature. How do we get one? No idea, but trading Komisarek is not what I'd do, since it would leave us with an equally glaring need for a physically dominating shutdown defenceman. ^_^

I'll also say that, as long as Koivu remains an effective offensive player, I don't see this as an absolute requirement to win. Pleks-Koivu aren't a great down-the-middle combination but, if healthy, they can get the job done provided we have a strong enough supporting cast. Nonetheless, Sundin would be a huge upgrade of course. And by, say, 2010, the need to replace Koivu will likely have become overwhelming.

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CerebusClone is right. The real issue is a Koivu replacement , period. While an elite C with size would be *ideal,* what we really need, and will need ever more desperately as Koivu ages, is an elite C, period, whether small or large of stature. How do we get one? No idea, but trading Komisarek is not what I'd do, since it would leave us with an equally glaring need for a physically dominating shutdown defenceman. ^_^

I'll also say that, as long as Koivu remains an effective offensive player, I don't see this as an absolute requirement to win. Pleks-Koivu aren't a great down-the-middle combination but, if healthy, they can get the job done provided we have a strong enough supporting cast. Nonetheless, Sundin would be a huge upgrade of course. And by, say, 2010, the need to replace Koivu will likely have become overwhelming.

But that is the crux of CerebusClone's argument. Komisarek could be replaced by McDonagh or Valentenko or Emelin etc. There is NOBODY in the system who looks like an elite level centre prospect.

I do not want to trade Komisarek in any way, but if he has a huge year and is demanding 5-7M per season you have to start wondering if it is wise to wrap up 15M+ on 3 Dmen with

a glut of defensive prospects in the system. This is not about the player, it is about filling organizational needs from the strength in your system.

If there was no cap, nobody would contemplate such a move, but he is approaching his payday and it makes for a difficult decision.

Seeing as Gainey is building from the net out, Komisarek is likely going nowhere. But the centre position needs an influx of talent. Where it is going to come from

is the million dollar question.

Edited by Wamsley01

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The easiest solution is to re-sign Koivu, see where Trotter and/or Maxwell are at after a full AHL season, and always keep an open mind. I think this whole Higgins or Sergei at C thing is a lot about being prepared for an injury this year rather than finding a long term solution, but who knows.

I still think we have some time to develop a C. It is frustrating that we've only managed to develop one offensive centre in our youth movement (well, two I guess with Ribeiro, but we traded him), but we shouldn't be acting desperate yet.

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