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The Chipchura Case

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Alright, this topic deserves its own thread since I know people are divided on it.

Chipchura seems to be spinning his wheels since the middle of last season. Lapierre is now firmly entrenched as the 4th C and there's a new generation coming up (Pacioretty, Maxwell, White, Trotter, etc.) in Hamilton this season.

So Chipper needs to feel the urgency of taking the next step. That really didnt showed in the game vs Detroit tonight. Horrible offensively, porous defensively, inept in the faceoff circle...

At 22, with all his junior experience and in his 3rd year as a pro, it's safe to say most people expected Chipchura to be further in his development than he is right now.

Are we just witnessing his limitations as a player or is it just a case of lost confidence?

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Chips has never been special, and I don't think he ever will :(

Im not biased, I love the guy but its my opinion.

He wasn't a point per game guy in junior, but has been alright in Hamilton.

Chips would prolly make half the teams rosters in the league as a regular this year, unfortunately for Chips, the Habs are on the better half.

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Was Chipchura really that bad tonight?

I mean its hard following a game on the

radio. I'd rather see a game to make a judgement

call. I heard that he missed an open net tonight,

he seemed to get alot of icetime.

I heard Pierre McGuire on team990 a couple of

days ago talk about Chipchura. He seemed to think

that his lack of speed might hinder his chances of

ever being a shutdown C.

I wonder if that achilles injury several years ago

effected his skating speed more than we thought.

Then again I thought he was ok last year, just needed

to adjust to the NHL speed. Maybe we need to send him

to the same person that Latendresse went to.

After seeing Maxwell on Tuesday, I'm starting to think

he might be our shutdown C as soon as next season.

Just a bunch of my thoughts in no particular order.

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I liked what I saw of Chips last season, especially around the time they sent him down. He deserves a better shot, I think he'll be a good player.

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I haven't seen anything that leads me to believe this guy will be anything more than a 4th line plug. He's slow and not all that great on the draw at the NHL level...not very promising traits for a centre.

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I thik we are being a little harsh with CHips. True he isn't the fastest guy around...but who's to say that he won't improve if we don't send him to the same specialist Latendresse went to this summer!?

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Mostly I think it's two things. First, there could be a lack of confidence and motivation on his part. He was told earlier this summer that he has a spot to lose, but instead he's coming to training camp with virtually no chance of making the team - no matter how great he plays - because he knows too well that Carbonneau will never send Dandeneault, Begin, or Kostopoulos down to the minors. Therefore he's looking at more time down in Hamilton, where he now has very little to learn, and knowing that once again he'll be asked to play a defensive role with limited grinders (if they at least put him in an offensive role where he could improve his overall game (or prove his doubters wrong).

Chipchura has nothing to look forward to right now, and whether you believe in him or not, that's simply not good for his development.

Second, and to follow my first point, I think he just needs to be given a permanent spot with enough time to adapt his game. Chipchura may not have great accelaration, but he does make up for it for more than decent speed (once he's taken off), great hockey sense, and sound positionning... not unlike Robert Lang in a way even though they are different players. His game will require a adjudtment period that her can't go through in Hamilton, or playing 8 minutes every other game at the NHL level. He needs to play, and if after maybe 20 games he's not up to par, then he will have only himself to blame.

Many people considered other players like Ribeiro, Ryder, Hainsey, and even Chris Higgins and Andrei Kostsitsyn as failures before they were given their first true chance in the NHL, and they all quickly proved people wrong once ther were given a permanent spot on an NHL roster. With his leadership, grit, hockey sense, strong defensive play, and underrated playmaking abilities, Chipchura has the potential to become a valuable member of any NHL team, and he deserves at least a genuine opportunity to suceeed.

If we can't or won't give him that chance, perhaps that we should trave Kyle Chipchura to a team that is willing to do so, just like we did with Mikhail Grabovski. These are crucial years years for his career, and it would be unfair for the Canadiens to make Chipchura waste those years in the minors.

ps. By the way, Kyle Chipchura averaged exactly a point-per-game ration during his last 2 seasons in the juniors, and despite a complete lack of offensive support. He was basiaclly a playmaker with no one to pass the puck to, but he still was the offensive leader for his team on the ice, and a guy who pilled up the 3-stars nominations after the games. I think he's a heck of a lot better offensively then we give him credit for.

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My thoughts on the Chipchura situation. Although Gainey stated earlier in the summer that Chips has a spot on the roster and it's his to lose, there was no Lang on the club at the time. With the addtition of Lang the Habs have their top 9 forwards set, assuming Lats is up to snuff.

That leaves for the 4th line: Laraque, Laps, Begin, Kostopoulos, Dandy, and Chips.

Thus, Chips seems to be on the odd man out, unless he shows that he belongs more than Begin, Kosto and Dandy. If he earns the right to play ahead of those vets, i could see him centering the 4th line with Laraque and Laps on the wings. Some have thought that Laps makes a better winger than centre. Although the other 3 are vets, if Chips shows to be better, than im sure Gainey would make accomodations to have Chips up with the big club. Case in point, he shipped out Huet last season at the deadline when he wanted Price as the No. 1. So although some say there is little room for him, i believe with a great camp Chips may force Gainey's hand.

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My thoughts on the Chipchura situation. Although Gainey stated earlier in the summer that Chips has a spot on the roster and it's his to lose, there was no Lang on the club at the time. With the addtition of Lang the Habs have their top 9 forwards set, assuming Lats is up to snuff.

That leaves for the 4th line: Laraque, Laps, Begin, Kostopoulos, Dandy, and Chips.

Thus, Chips seems to be on the odd man out, unless he shows that he belongs more than Begin, Kosto and Dandy. If he earns the right to play ahead of those vets, i could see him centering the 4th line with Laraque and Laps on the wings. Some have thought that Laps makes a better winger than centre. Although the other 3 are vets, if Chips shows to be better, than im sure Gainey would make accomodations to have Chips up with the big club. Case in point, he shipped out Huet last season at the deadline when he wanted Price as the No. 1. So although some say there is little room for him, i believe with a great camp Chips may force Gainey's hand.

Although who hasn't outplayed Mathieu Dandeneault at last year's camp, and no only is he still here today, but Dandeneault even skated on our first offensive line last season ;)

More seriously, considering Chipchura's potential, the fact that we should have three solid lines together capable of logging probably 55 minutes of ice time (20/18/17) if we asked them to, the fact that Begin and Kostopoulos are depth players that most likely won't be back after this season (maybe one of them, as a luxury reserve player), and that Chipchura will soon be 23 years old and at a point where decisions need to to be made about his future in the organization, I think we need to give him a genuine opportunity as the regular 4th line centre this season. As I mentionned before, it's not like a Lapierre-Chipchura-Laraque forth 4th looks bad on paper.

Basically I'm afraid that we are doing to Kyle Chipchura what we did with Yann Danis (although Danis was older when he signed with Montreal). He was solid in Hamilton, did fairly well for the little we saw him in Montreal, and although it looked lile he was more than good enough to play with the Canadiens, we let him rot in the minors until he seemed to have lost his confidence and his motivation, which in turn affected his play.

Like I said, if the Canadiens won't or can't give him the chance he deserves, we should trade him to a team that will; it's just the right thing to do.

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Basically I'm afraid that we are doing to Kyle Chipchura what we did with Yann Danis (although Danis was older when he signed with Montreal). He was solid in Hamilton, did fairly well for the little we saw him in Montreal, and although it looked lile he was more than good enough to play with the Canadiens, we let him rot in the minors until he seemed to have lost his confidence and his motivation, which in turn affected his play.

Speaking of Danis, he took his first step towards becoming DiPietro's backup by outplaying Joey MacDonald in the Islanders' first pre-season game.

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Chipchura doesn't need to be in the NHL this year. It's next year that the organization should be targeting for him. He had a shot last year, and it didn't seem to work out. He definitely needs to get some confidence back in his game, but I think he has the character to do it.

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Many people considered other players like Ribeiro, Ryder, Hainsey, and even Chris Higgins and Andrei Kostsitsyn as failures before they were given their first true chance in the NHL, and they all quickly proved people wrong once ther were given a permanent spot on an NHL roster. With his leadership, grit, hockey sense, strong defensive play, and underrated playmaking abilities, Chipchura has the potential to become a valuable member of any NHL team, and he deserves at least a genuine opportunity to suceeed.

...............

ps. By the way, Kyle Chipchura averaged exactly a point-per-game ration during his last 2 seasons in the juniors, and despite a complete lack of offensive support. He was basiaclly a playmaker with no one to pass the puck to, but he still was the offensive leader for his team on the ice, and a guy who pilled up the 3-stars nominations after the games. I think he's a heck of a lot better offensively then we give him credit for.

I have a pro-Chipchura bias, but I agree with CerebusClone...

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I have a pro-Chipchura bias, but I agree with CerebusClone...

Oops... so many spelling mistakes in that quote... I need to be more careful... ;)

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It's not that he's behind in his development. He made the team out of camp last season and probably should have stayed there. We can use him as an NHL 4th liner right now but we haven't got a spot open for him yet and he isn't that good that sending him back to the Bulldogs for a little while will hurt him. If he played poorly against Detroit, it's just a question of confidence - he must have lost it last year when he first thought he'd broken into the NHL and then played the rest of the year in Hamilton.

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It's not that he's behind in his development. He made the team out of camp last season and probably should have stayed there. We can use him as an NHL 4th liner right now but we haven't got a spot open for him yet and he isn't that good that sending him back to the Bulldogs for a little while will hurt him. If he played poorly against Detroit, it's just a question of confidence - he must have lost it last year when he first thought he'd broken into the NHL and then played the rest of the year in Hamilton.

but don't you think sending him back to hamilton would ruin his confidence even more?

Oops... so many spelling mistakes in that quote... I need to be more careful... ;)

whatever, it's a message board and everyone knew what you meant... I actually thought that the points were all pretty articulately stated, and they weren't spelling errors CC, they were typos! Typos!

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Interesting points made by everyone. :clap:

I guess, I really feel, that if we don't give Chipchura

the same chance Latendresse got, we'd be idiots.

Chipchura has got some playmaking abilities, I know, I

saw them.

He has skating issues and that can be addressed. Being

good on FO's, can be learnt.

Chipchura is a victim of our depth, and the fact we're

going for the Cup :hlogo:

I still think he's got 3rd line upside. And I believe he

starts the year in Hamilton.

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Well, one thing that is in Chipchura's favor is that we have something like 9 players who will be UFA next year. I doubt we'll be signing everyone of them. You can bet the Dandy won'T be there. Neither will Bouillon. The habs will probably keep one of either Bégin or Kostopoulos. I doubt we'll be able to sign all three of Tanguay, Kovalev and Koivu. If we're lucky, we'll be able to sign 2 of the 3.

I think there will some room on the team next year!

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Well, one thing that is in Chipchura's favor is that we have something like 9 players who will be UFA next year. I doubt we'll be signing everyone of them. You can bet the Dandy won'T be there. Neither will Bouillon. The habs will probably keep one of either Bégin or Kostopoulos. I doubt we'll be able to sign all three of Tanguay, Kovalev and Koivu. If we're lucky, we'll be able to sign 2 of the 3.

I think there will some room on the team next year!

And now you have to add Lang to that group of top forwards... We'll definitely be able to sign 2 of them IMO, it's the 3rd that'll be tricky. When you talk about having to put big extensions forward for Komisarek, Plekanec, and possibly Higgins (also a contract year for Latendresse), there will be some players who will have to go.

That's why I point to next year for Chipchura... he has to prove his worth this year because the spots are a lot more open next year.

It's also funny, because Chipchura is in the same situation as D'Agostini and Stewart, but Chipchura, because he was on the team for a significant period, is talked about as the guy running out of chances. Chips just got a chance very early.

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And now you have to add Lang to that group of top forwards... We'll definitely be able to sign 2 of them IMO, it's the 3rd that'll be tricky. When you talk about having to put big extensions forward for Komisarek, Plekanec, and possibly Higgins (also a contract year for Latendresse), there will be some players who will have to go.

That's why I point to next year for Chipchura... he has to prove his worth this year because the spots are a lot more open next year.

It's also funny, because Chipchura is in the same situation as D'Agostini and Stewart, but Chipchura, because he was on the team for a significant period, is talked about as the guy running out of chances. Chips just got a chance very early.

People don't mention them as often because Stewart's upside is a slighty improved version of Steve Bégin (he's bigger and he'll defend his teammates every once in a while) while D'Agostini's future in the NHL is doubtful.

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My point is simply all 3 are the same age, have the same contract status (last year of rookie deal) and all 3 are likely to start in Hamilton this year.

For what it's worth, Gainey said D'Agostini was one of the prospects he liked in particular at a Q & A session in Newfoundland earlier this month.

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My point is simply all 3 are the same age, have the same contract status (last year of rookie deal) and all 3 are likely to start in Hamilton this year.

For what it's worth, Gainey said D'Agostini was one of the prospects he liked in particular at a Q & A session in Newfoundland earlier this month.

I like D'Agostini also.

Its a B%tch having depth :lol:

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It's too bad about Chips but maybe with injuries looming he can make the team for a while. I personally think the kid is dynamite. He just needs to work on his faceoffs. I love his puck possession and puck stealing skills. Some fans are so involved in noticing goals, points and 2 way play that they sometimes miss a players' strength because it's not a typical stat or skill one normally would notice. Chipchura in the D zone was magical at stealing the puck from the opposition. He's also excellent at puck possession and distribution in the O zone. He did this again and again and again, night in and night out. To be frank, he was freaking me out. I hope the lower facets of his game can improve so we can see this art at work yet again.

Anyone else in here notice his skill in these areas?

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If we get an injury at centre he's in. We've been lucky the past few years, who knows this year. He'll get his chance, I just hope he doesn't fade and keeps his shit together.

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It's too bad about Chips but maybe with injuries looming he can make the team for a while. I personally think the kid is dynamite. He just needs to work on his faceoffs. I love his puck possession and puck stealing skills. Some fans are so involved in noticing goals, points and 2 way play that they sometimes miss a players' strength because it's not a typical stat or skill one normally would notice. Chipchura in the D zone was magical at stealing the puck from the opposition. He's also excellent at puck possession and distribution in the O zone. He did this again and again and again, night in and night out. To be frank, he was freaking me out. I hope the lower facets of his game can improve so we can see this art at work yet again.

Anyone else in here notice his skill in these areas?

I agree with this assesment.

If Chipchura could win 55% of his face-offs no one would question the kid.

He's fine defensively, stick handles well enough, moves the puck well and has shown good leadership qualities over his career...but, he's a little slow and TERRIBLE at face-offs...so much so that it stands out.

If Carboneau could work with him on face-offs he'd have a good teacher at least...

I think if he could get his game to even close to the NHL average in speed and face-offs he's got enough two way skills, and with the right line-mates, he'd become a solid 2nd line C on a mediocre team and a very good 3rd line C on the Habs.

If the Habs are serious about getting his game up to par they need to give him a lot more minutes, with good linemates, in Hamilton. He needs 1st line minutes and PK minutes...put him in the situations he needs to improve in.

I could see Chipchura becoming a very good player...but he's in danger of becoming another Milroy.

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