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2009 World Junior Championship thread


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Subban is a glory to watch, absolutely electrifying - by some distance the most exciting player for either team in a Canada-Russia tilt, which really speaks to an incredible skill level. On the other hand, he is also capable of some total howlers (like the preposterous spinarama giveaway earlier in the game) that are a direct offshoot of his willingness to take risks. What I dearly hope is that he can retain that dashing, devil-may-care offensive style in the face of the inevitable battery of coaches who will try to beat it out of him in the name of defensive reliability. There's no doubt in my mind that he is a potential offensive catalyst from the back end...but first he'll need to add enough defensive steadiness to neutralize the coaches (and, potentially, merciless Montreal fans who refuse to forgive mistakes, c.f. Brisebois/O'Byrne).

Incredible win by Canada. Just incredible. :clap:

"Proposterous" indeed, but you forgot to say that he was fast enough to come back and correct his mistake. That was quite a play and tells a lot about his ability and desire, IMO. You can't expect a player like Subban never to make an error. He is so creative, he is bound to make a few now and then. The important thing to remember is that he's got heart and will find a way to elevate his play and contribute to his team.

JCPetit

I forgot to say: Bring him in Montreal, right now!

JCPetit

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I never thought I'd see a better game then the Canada/US semi final game from two years ago but I just did.

I almost brought the roof down when Eberle tied it at 5.

I love this tournament.

I don't know what it is but WJC beats the Super Bowl, Olympics, and Stanley Cup finals for me. It is the most exciting hockey!!!

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Oh geez, those spinoramas. Someone tell him to leave those in the OHL and not in the semis against Russia, those were a headache to watch. He's fast enough to get back but I'm not gonna praise a guy for something he shouldn't of had to worry about in the first place. Just make the smart play, don't be cute. A lot of Canadians were guilty of that tonight but Subban was the most noticeable. We turned it over a lot tonight and it resulted in a couple Russia goals. Defensively, Canada played a really sloppy game.

Subban is a treat to watch and theres a reason he's getting so many minutes but sometimes he's waaay too fancy out there.

And whoever said Tokarski didn't look good, the only goal I'd pin on him was the last one. I didn't think the other 4 were his fault and he was otherwise very solid. And I've always thought Pickard should've been our starter instead since the beginning of the tourney.

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He missed one spinorama and was able to correct his mistake. He made another one during overtime and it gave an excellent chance to score a goal. This is ridiculous. A guy like Quinn was not able to turn on his skates and he is going to teach a young man like Subban how to play hockey. Let's face it, we will never produce too much exciting young players like Subban. What the coaches have to teach them is to play like a team. And Subban is also a great team player.

He will only get better. He just has to learn when to take chances. That will come in time. I have no doubts about that.

JCPetit

Edited by JCPetit
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I was lucky enough to be at the game tonight...it was one for the ages for sure. There was a buzz in the arena every time Subban touched the puck...everyone in the crowd wanted him to cut loose and go end-to-end!

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I was at the game against the US.

PK was unreal I can not wait for him to be in Hamilton and eventually the Habs.

He leads the tourney in +/- and is also the best offensive D man in the tourney (tied with Shattenkirk)

but the most impressive thing his PK's defensive game which has appeared to progress light years in a short p[period of time.

His D has always been underrated and more often then not exagerated when talking about his lack of D.

I never understood it and neither does PK :wacko:

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His D has always been underrated and more often then not exagerated when talking about his lack of D.

I never understood it and neither does PK :wacko:

Pulling one of those spinoramas while being the last man back with Filatov and Grachev on the ice scared the crap out of me. I was nervous everytime he touched the puck and anytime a shot came near Tokarski.

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PK's flash is part of his game - but it's only a matter of time before someone in the OHL, AHL, or NHL forsee's his spinorama and decks him open ice on it.

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He missed one spinorama and was able to correct his mistake.

lol, he missed on 3 or 4. I can remember another in the neutral zone when the smart play was to just pass it on his forehand (to Tavares, I think) and instead he whipped around on a spinorama to dump it in and put the puck right on the blade of a Russian. Lead to another good scoring chance. Maguire really gave it to him for that, Ryan Ellis made a similar move a few minutes later that almost resulted in a goal.

Joe, plus/minus does count when the net is empty. Had to look it up myself though.

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Joe, plus/minus does count when the net is empty. Had to look it up myself though.

are you saying there that :

1. I could have look it up myself ?

or

2. It was a good question ?

:P

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did anyone see swedens 4-2 goal in the third? Just LOVE those dekes. U guys have enough wins in the WJC lately so its our turn now.

Markström btw... what team drafted him?

Florida in what seems to be considered a 2nd round steal.

Edit: Typo

Edited by Tony
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PK's flash is part of his game - but it's only a matter of time before someone in the OHL, AHL, or NHL forsee's his spinorama and decks him open ice on it.

The spinoramas are part of his game right now. If he doesn't learn how to master them most of the time, he'll forget about it, that's all. Excellent players used the same moves before. Serge Savard and Brad Park did in the past. Denis Savard had his own offensive version. He is still a junior player, learning his trade. I am not worried, he'll learn soon enough what he can or should not do.

JCPetit

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Today shall be an exciting day.

I really hope the Russians do not mail it in as I would like to see a battle between them and the Slovaks.

I am very happy that a Canadiens prospect will win a gold medal and the other a silver.

I hope Hedman had his best game of the tourney and he and Tavares go head to head.

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The spinoramas are part of his game right now. If he doesn't learn how to master them most of the time, he'll forget about it, that's all. Excellent players used the same moves before. Serge Savard and Brad Park did in the past. Denis Savard had his own offensive version. He is still a junior player, learning his trade. I am not worried, he'll learn soon enough what he can or should not do.

JCPetit

Hockey has also changed since then, you miss a spinorama against the Red Wings, and they'll likely get a breakaway or 2-on-1 opportunity before Subban has time to realize what happened. Hockey has become a well-oiled machine with structure and various strategies, and players are trained almost like robots to react instinctively to all possible game scenatrios. Spinoramas also work a lot better against teenagers than againast pros who play the body a lot more.

I really like Subban, he's an exciting player to watch, and he's got a great personnality that will attract a lot of fans. However he'll need some time to mature in the minors before becoming a NHL regular because right now his decision making is weak at best (relative to the NHL level). With some work I have no doubt that he can become a very good player at both ends of the rink, and not only a powerplay specialist.

The biggest question is whether the Canadiens will allow and support him in becoming a great player, something we didn't do with a guy like Ron Hainsey. The organization spent so much time criticizing his defensive play while never allowing to do what he did best, therefore all we ever saw from him was mediocre play, and without a doubt that affected him psychologically. PK Subban will come to Montreal with his fair share of flaws, and I hope we give him enough freedom to express himself and show us what he does best WHILE supporting him to become a more complete and effective player.

On a final note I really hope that the Canadiens hire a proper and proven defensive coach because I'm not sure the current coaching staff has what it takes to support the McDonaghs, Fishers, Subbans, Webers, Emelins, and the others that are coming to Montreal over the next couples years... no offense but what the heck do Carbonneau, Muller and Jarvis know about turning a diamond-in-the-rough offensive defenseman like Subban into a gem? They failed miserably this season with Ryan O'Byrne (while Don Lever and his staff seemed to have prepared him well), and I don't want this to happen with the others.

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Brian Campbell does a decent spin-o-rama with some frequency... it can work very effectively even at the NHL level. He won't be pulling off 5 of them per game at the NHL level, but he'll (hopefully) learn.

Heck, Markov pulled even one off the other day.

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On a final note I really hope that the Canadiens hire a proper and proven defensive coach because I'm not sure the current coaching staff has what it takes to support the McDonaghs, Fishers, Subbans, Webers, Emelins, and the others that are coming to Montreal over the next couples years... no offense but what the heck do Carbonneau, Muller and Jarvis know about turning a diamond-in-the-rough offensive defenseman like Subban into a gem? They failed miserably this season with Ryan O'Byrne (while Don Lever and his staff seemed to have prepared him well), and I don't want this to happen with the others.

:clap:

I've been thinking this for awhile - Larry Robinson was always my first choice, but I'm not sure we'd be able to pry him out of NJ.

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:clap:

I've been thinking this for awhile - Larry Robinson was always my first choice, but I'm not sure we'd be able to pry him out of NJ.

Robinson is best friends with Lamoriello but I'm sure we could find a guy that would have the skills to help the D.

I think the proper candidate as to be retired in the last few years so he still have the knowledge of todays hockey.

the only guy I can think of would be Daneyko but I'm sure he's employed in NJ.

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Hockey has also changed since then, you miss a spinorama against the Red Wings, and they'll likely get a breakaway or 2-on-1 opportunity before Subban has time to realize what happened. Hockey has become a well-oiled machine with structure and various strategies, and players are trained almost like robots to react instinctively to all possible game scenatrios. Spinoramas also work a lot better against teenagers than againast pros who play the body a lot more.

I really like Subban, he's an exciting player to watch, and he's got a great personnality that will attract a lot of fans. However he'll need some time to mature in the minors before becoming a NHL regular because right now his decision making is weak at best (relative to the NHL level). With some work I have no doubt that he can become a very good player at both ends of the rink, and not only a powerplay specialist.

The biggest question is whether the Canadiens will allow and support him in becoming a great player, something we didn't do with a guy like Ron Hainsey. The organization spent so much time criticizing his defensive play while never allowing to do what he did best, therefore all we ever saw from him was mediocre play, and without a doubt that affected him psychologically. PK Subban will come to Montreal with his fair share of flaws, and I hope we give him enough freedom to express himself and show us what he does best WHILE supporting him to become a more complete and effective player.

On a final note I really hope that the Canadiens hire a proper and proven defensive coach because I'm not sure the current coaching staff has what it takes to support the McDonaghs, Fishers, Subbans, Webers, Emelins, and the others that are coming to Montreal over the next couples years... no offense but what the heck do Carbonneau, Muller and Jarvis know about turning a diamond-in-the-rough offensive defenseman like Subban into a gem? They failed miserably this season with Ryan O'Byrne (while Don Lever and his staff seemed to have prepared him well), and I don't want this to happen with the others.

You can't compare Subban to Hainsey. When he played in Quebec, it was known that Hainsey had a terrible attitude out of the ice. He left his appartment in a total mess, if I remember correctly. Obviously, Subban is much more mature at a younger age. I have no doubt that he will settle down and learn to play a dependable defensive game. But, for God's sake, don't kill the offensive player in him!

JCPetit

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You can't compare Subban to Hainsey. When he played in Quebec, it was known that Hainsey had a terrible attitude out of the ice. He left his appartment in a total mess, if I remember correctly. Obviously, Subban is much more mature at a younger age. I have no doubt that he will settle down and learn to play a dependable defensive game. But, for God's sake, don't kill the offensive player in him!

JCPetit

I don't really care about Hainsey's messy appartment, the Montreal media like to turn every one who's not a proper little boy into some kind of cocky, arrogant jerk with attitude problems, like Ribeiro and Theodore. Ron Hainsey said his goal was to become the best defenseman in Montreal instead of the more politically-correct "I'm gonna work hard, and do my best" crap that the Bouillons and Begins give us, and everyone turned on him from that point on calling him an arrogant jerk.

My point was that the Canadiens drafted an offensive defenseman in Ron Hainsey a few years ago, and they did everything they could to break his game while never really allowing him to demonstrate the skills that made him an early first round pick. It's like a woman marrying some jerk thinking she'll turn him around... if the Canadiens wanted a gritty defensive defenseman, they should have selected Brooks Orpik.

Like Hainsey, Subban will be coming to Montreal with high expectations, but more importantly his share of strengths ans weaknesses... I just hope we allow him to master his strengths - what will make him a successful NHL player - while working on his flaws.

Edited by CerebusClone
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The Hainsey thing was the Rick Green philosophy... we had a defensive coach who played in the NHL for a long time and was absolutely terrible at developing d-men... Robidas had to go elsewhere to salvage a promising career and Markov succeeded in spite of him. Be careful what you wish for. The current staff has only had 2 young d-men of note that you can judge them on, and they did a great job with Gorges' development. O'Byrne has taken a step back this year but he was always viewed as a project so I'm not convinced this step back won't be overcome in time.

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The Hainsey thing was the Rick Green philosophy... we had a defensive coach who played in the NHL for a long time and was absolutely terrible at developing d-men... Robidas had to go elsewhere to salvage a promising career and Markov succeeded in spite of him. Be careful what you wish for. The current staff has only had 2 young d-men of note that you can judge them on, and they did a great job with Gorges' development. O'Byrne has taken a step back this year but he was always viewed as a project so I'm not convinced this step back won't be overcome in time.

Gorges was 22 years old, and already had nearly 100 games worth of experience in the NHL (and another 100 games in the AHL). He was already a decent player for the Sharks when he came over here, and just blossomed once he got the opportunity to play regularly. Without taking all the credit away from the Montreal coaching staff, I wouldn't exactly put his success on their track record.

Ryan O'Byrne is a better example. He came to Montreal last season after some strong play in the minors, and played quite well in the second half of the season. Unfortunately he struggled early in camp, and has never been able to regain his confidence, and I also doubt he was giving all the tools and support he needed to get back on track. How much was it his fault, and how much blame can we put on the coaches, it's very hard to tell, but I have no doubt that O'Byrne would have done better earlier this season with a Robinson-type defensive coach to rely on, and help him.

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