habs rule Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 (edited) Now you see if that idiot russioan had a stuck around he might have had a shot at being called up. he has a great shot. stupid is as stupid does. for those unclear I mean Valentenko Edited November 10, 2008 by habs rule Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easy Ryder Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 Wanted a big forward to park his ass in front of the goalie instead of Higgins, the kind of player that had good chemistry with Koivu and Tanguay. Then the PP point men can shoot and goalie is screened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 I think what you are talking about is BALLS. Very few habs have them. They are too much of a perimeter east west team. They need a little more north south. A good #4 D man will help out as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CerebusClone Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 Now you see if that idiot russioan had a stuck around he might have had a shot at being called up. he has a great shot. stupid is as stupid does. for those unclear I mean Valentenko Valentenko is a 21yo country boy with tredendously unfair responsibilities on his shoulders to provide for his entire family back in Russia. He wasn't making enough money in Hamilton, saw hardly any possibility to play in the NHL this season, seemed to have been set-up by his father, and he made a "decision" he now has to live with (maybe it was the right move, maybe not). Besides he was now in Guy Carbonneau's doghouse, and probably would not have been called up anyway (Weber and Carle would probably have had that opportunity before him). As for the 4th defenseman, I still think we need to work with O'Byrne, and be patient with him. There's definitely something wrong with him, but he showed us last season that he can be a good defenseman at the NHL level. It may not be a bad idea for the Canadiens to hire an ex NHL defenseman as a consultant to help not only O'Byrne, but also to help stabilize our defensive game which has been lacking for the last couple years. Of course O'Byrne will not likely the current answer for the powerplay - although he's got a great shot, and we should work with him over the next couple years - however I think there are solutions within the organization such as giving Komisarek a shot, or playing Andrei Kostsitsyn at the blue so that he can use his powerful shot (and putting Markov back where he's been so great). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easy Ryder Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 I think what you are talking about is BALLS. Very few habs have them. They are too much of a perimeter east west team. They need a little more north south. A good #4 D man will help out as well. Exactly these guys think they are good, they don't have to get their nose dirty to win. This don'T help when a perimeter guy screws the only line that was really working well. Now the best line is usually the fourth, why beause they work. And i take this to defend Kosto, Van Ryn saw him and turn his back to the opponent facing the board. Idiot move by the D and Kosto will be suspended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 If the team felt they could re-sign Jay Bo, I'd be willing to part with any of O'Byrne, Subban, Fischer or Weber in the deal. The 3 prospects I'd try and hang on to the most are McDonagh, Pacioretty, and Maxwell. Maxwell mainly because he's a good prospect in a position we're short in, the other 2 because they're of such high quality. If a team insisted on Pacioretty, I'd counter with the more established Higgins or Latendresse instead, or try and sell them on Chipchura. And as for Jay Bo's "shyness" or whatever.... you think Hockey Canada would keep calling on him if he wasn't mentally tough enough to play in pressure situations? Good grief... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 Exactly, i read the Panthers definitely want a centre, a roster player, and a prospect or a pick. Chipchura, Subban, O'Byrne and one of (Begin, Dandy) due to the cap. I totally agree about Boumeester, i'm not sure why people think his personality, being shy or whatever is a problem. I only care about what he does on the ice, which is very impressive on both ends of the rink. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 To who still mention Weber's name, if you want a quick comparison, Weber at this point in his professional career plays like Brisebois. He can shoot, he can pass, he can skate but he's too offensive minded. Let him learn how to play defense in the AHL before giving him top minutes in the NHL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 (edited) It may not be a bad idea for the Canadiens to hire an ex NHL defenseman as a consultant to help not only O'Byrne, but also to help stabilize our defensive game which has been lacking for the last couple years. You make an important point here. If I remember right, team D is Muller's job - ? But according to the Globe, the Habs are one of the only teams in the NHL that doesn't have a coach specializing in the defence. We need one. It is baffling to me that a coaching staff/management with made up of some of the greatest defensive specialists in the history of the game seem to have forgotten that offensively gifted teams generally win championships by focusing on defence and letting the offence take care of itself, through superior talent. This is the Scotty Bowman formula. It works. Ultimately, that 4th D would be the cherry on top, but he won't do us any good if the overall team play is not there. More talent isn't the answer to what ails us just now. Team play and commitment to defence is. Edited November 10, 2008 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 I still got faith in O'Byrne. I don't wanna slam the guy but something tells me after he saw that Streit signed with the Isles in July and that Brisebois wasn't signed at the time, he kicked back and took it easy knowing his spot on the team was penciled down. If that's the case, give him 10 more NHL games to get back into his groove. He did a fine job last season playing with Hamrlik. Sure, he's not the PP QB that some of you guys would like him to be right now but one of those spots is going to a forward for sure just based on the fact that the team has nine forwards who can play on the top 2 lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 Just to be clear, because I'd target Bouwmeester doesn't mean I don't think O'Byrne can be a good d-man down the line. I'm just looking for ways to improve the roster. O'Byrne struggling isn't that shocking right now. It's not indicative of how good he'll be in 2-3 years. He's always been a longer term prospect for us... when he was drafted, he was a huge teenager playing Junior A in BC. He wasn't ever going to be a Top 4 guy in just 5 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFT77 Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 I'd agree that the most importannt need on the Habs is a #4 d-man or better. When any one of Marky, Komi, or Hammy go down, the Habs do not have anyone who can step up into that role. As for O'bryne, i would definitely not give up on the kid yet, however if he continues to struggle, this is not the year to let the kid struggle with the big club. Send him back to Hamilton for seasoning. If he was part of a package to get a good d-man, then so be it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 (edited) Valentenko is a 21yo country boy with tredendously unfair responsibilities on his shoulders to provide for his entire family back in Russia. He wasn't making enough money in Hamilton, saw hardly any possibility to play in the NHL this season, seemed to have been set-up by his father, and he made a "decision" he now has to live with (maybe it was the right move, maybe not). Besides he was now in Guy Carbonneau's doghouse, and probably would not have been called up anyway (Weber and Carle would probably have had that opportunity before him). As for the 4th defenseman, I still think we need to work with O'Byrne, and be patient with him. There's definitely something wrong with him, but he showed us last season that he can be a good defenseman at the NHL level. It may not be a bad idea for the Canadiens to hire an ex NHL defenseman as a consultant to help not only O'Byrne, but also to help stabilize our defensive game which has been lacking for the last couple years. Of course O'Byrne will not likely the current answer for the powerplay - although he's got a great shot, and we should work with him over the next couple years - however I think there are solutions within the organization such as giving Komisarek a shot, or playing Andrei Kostsitsyn at the blue so that he can use his powerful shot (and putting Markov back where he's been so great). cerebus I am not buying the "i have look after my family and $150,000.00 us per season just is not enough", I will however agree that his father possibly a greedy sob may have set him up but he is a big boy and should have stuck to his guns. His opportunity to play in the NHL is probably gone. And in the long run he will suffer for this stupid move. Edited November 10, 2008 by habs rule Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 Valentenko wasn't making 150 000$ in the AHL. We'll use Brian's awesome cap sheet info found here. Valentenko was slated to make 560 000$ in the NHL. Now, in terms of AHL, he'd make about an eight of that money so it comes down to 70 000$ before taxes (the most sites I found have him making a bit less than 63 000$). Is that enough to support his entire family? Hard to say but if he indeed was making 150 000$, he's still be in Hamilton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 Tony is correct. According to the Habs Prospects site, Valentenko was making $62,500 CANADIAN in Hamilton. http://habsprospects.hockeyhq.net/ If he is supporting his entire family on that, then one can understand how that would be a strain on him. Especially since he's likely making over a million, tax free, in Russia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 Tony is correct. According to the Habs Prospects site, Valentenko was making $62,500 CANADIAN in Hamilton. http://habsprospects.hockeyhq.net/ If he is supporting his entire family on that, then one can understand how that would be a strain on him. Especially since he's likely making over a million, tax free, in Russia. Actually, I heard that he'd be making about 300,000$ in Russia. Not 1 million$. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thib46 Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 Actually, I heard that he'd be making about 300,000$ in Russia. Not 1 million$. I understand the salary is tax free, that is significant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_Boagalott Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 (edited) It may not be a bad idea for the Canadiens to hire an ex NHL defenseman as a consultant to help not only O'Byrne, but also to help stabilize our defensive game which has been lacking for the last couple years. I was going to say the exact same thing. Its been mentioned before and it would be a really good idea. Is Desjardins still under contract with the Flyers? As for anybody in Hamilton being the guy, no way its the same problem just with a different player. The Habs need a Dman with experience who is used to the regular pressure of being in the NHL not to mention when the playoffs start. Edited November 10, 2008 by Sir_Boagalott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 Valentenko wasn't making 150 000$ in the AHL. We'll use Brian's awesome cap sheet info found here. Valentenko was slated to make 560 000$ in the NHL. Now, in terms of AHL, he'd make about an eight of that money so it comes down to 70 000$ before taxes (the most sites I found have him making a bit less than 63 000$). Is that enough to support his entire family? Hard to say but if he indeed was making 150 000$, he's still be in Hamilton. I stand corrected, 2 mistakes I read an article the other day that said he was making 150 us that must have been incorrect and I should have checked it I did look at brians cap site but only looked at the cap hit which is 850,000 which I dont quite understand but whatever. In any case If he wanted to go back to Russia then he should have been honest with the habs and talked to them not skulked out telling lies so he could get them to pay for the ticket. this is not russia he doesn't have to defect. It will cost him a lot in the future. I have no sympathy for him. You sign a contract you live by it. The time to go back to russia was before he put his name on an NHl contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbhatt Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 The time to go back to russia was before he put his name on an NHl contract. Agreed....which is why I think Emelin is a smart/stand-up guy. The reason he's not already with the Habs is that he would only come here if offered a one-way contract; he wasn't willing to accept AHL money, and made that clear up front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaos Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 Valentanko would be making around $62,500 in Hamilton plus pro-rated share of a signing bonus. Probably was making somewhere in the neighbourhood of $100,000 to $120,000 in Hamilton before taxes. Not sure what health problems he was helping his family out with, but I doubt health care is cheap in Russia, and I highly doubt the have medicare there. Considering the life expeancy of a Russian make is about 57 years, it doesn't really seem like alot of people are seeing doctors regularly. So after taxes Valentanko is probably taking home $70,000 or so, which after his expenses here (rent, food etc.,) is not alot of money to send back to Russia. Like everybody in the hockey world keeps saying, this is a buisness. And I don't blame him for taking care of his family first. I'm sure his agent is telling him that its a short sighted move right now, that he can make more money in the NHL later, but thats no guarantee. And hes probably going to make great money in the Russian league, pay no taxes and take care of his family. You may not like it, but you have to respect it, cause you know you would do it too. I would Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 You did say give up "some youth" but the cost will be more than just 1 player and more like at least 1 current prospect + high picks or 2 prospect + med picks. The cost will be high to pick up a top Dman and the new NHL is a helluva lot different now than it was in 99. Saying what Bob did pre-prelockout for Dallas doesnt mean much now. Besides Dallas was trying to win the Cup once and that lone Cup win made their franchise. I highly doubt Bob would risk the Habs being able to be a perenial contender over the next 5 years to win the Cup just this year. You would have a point had he never attempted to make similar moves since the lockout. His attempts to get Gaborik prove my point. Not only would he have been willing to give away a young asset but he was willing to give away a player that has already become a part of our core. If he gets a chance to put us over the top, he'll consider it, even if it's at the expense of O'Byrne or Carle or Fischer or some high picks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted November 11, 2008 Share Posted November 11, 2008 Valentanko would be making around $62,500 in Hamilton plus pro-rated share of a signing bonus. Probably was making somewhere in the neighbourhood of $100,000 to $120,000 in Hamilton before taxes. Not sure what health problems he was helping his family out with, but I doubt health care is cheap in Russia, and I highly doubt the have medicare there. Considering the life expeancy of a Russian make is about 57 years, it doesn't really seem like alot of people are seeing doctors regularly. So after taxes Valentanko is probably taking home $70,000 or so, which after his expenses here (rent, food etc.,) is not alot of money to send back to Russia. Like everybody in the hockey world keeps saying, this is a buisness. And I don't blame him for taking care of his family first. I'm sure his agent is telling him that its a short sighted move right now, that he can make more money in the NHL later, but thats no guarantee. And hes probably going to make great money in the Russian league, pay no taxes and take care of his family. You may not like it, but you have to respect it, cause you know you would do it too. I would I never respect players who do not honor their contract and I still say lying and skulking off to russia under false pretences is wrong and deserves no respect. Why not go to the habs explain the situation and go honestly, after al this ain't russia you can do that here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForumGhost Posted November 11, 2008 Share Posted November 11, 2008 I'm surprised I'm not seeing Weber's name thrown around me. He's exactly what we need. Not only can he shoot, but he can score. People might grumble that his defensive abilities need development, but if anyone can pick up his slack at the back end, its' Hamrlik. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted November 11, 2008 Share Posted November 11, 2008 I'm surprised I'm not seeing Weber's name thrown around me. He's exactly what we need. Not only can he shoot, but he can score. People might grumble that his defensive abilities need development, but if anyone can pick up his slack at the back end, its' Hamrlik. I've been surprised I've been hearing his name so much. I don't even think we'll see him next season, forget about this one. When Carle gets back to full health, he'll be our first call up, I think - if we need him because of an injury, I'm not advising us to call someone up to replace O'Byrne. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.