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I thought Price played a hell of a game. He almost got that 2nd goal... I'm pretty sure he was the only Habs willing to try second efforts.

The Lang line has moments of brilliance, but Sergei's giveaway was the turning point. It was a rookie mistake, and I think some time in Hamilton might get Sergei's confidence back.

Pleks, Kovy, Higgins, Koivu, Markov and Tanguay were MIA. These are GOOD players. Our BEST players. This team will not win without them showing up on a regular basis.

This team seems to try either too many cute plays or too many individual efforts. It's up to Carbo to implement a plan that utilizes their skill and speed, and for the boys to buy into it. He'd better make it a fairly simple plan, cuz the boys are all over the place.

I don't think a trade is the answer. The team just needs to start playing as a team. Buy into a plan and play towards a common goal.

And yes... please shoot the effing puck more! There's no points awarded for fancy plays that ALMOST end up in goals.

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Did Kovy play the PP point at all tonight? I ask because I agree withe Robert L at "Eyes On the Prize" that he should be placed there.

Removal Of Kovalev As Power Play Focal Point The Key To Recreating It/Eyes On The Prize

I'll second that. This article is right on the money...excellent analysis. Time to mess with other teams by moving Kovalev around, and points manned by Kovy and Markov is a very interesting scenario. Put Koivu up front with A. Kost, and (insert offensive-minded forward here) and you'd have a new look that would have opponents guessing again.

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Kovalev is pissing me off!! For a guy playing in his contract year he's showing absolutely nothing. What was he doing the last minute of the game, clearing the puck when we had to attack!! I have nothing more to say, its just too frustrating :angry:

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I'll second that. This article is right on the money...excellent analysis. Time to mess with other teams by moving Kovalev around, and points manned by Kovy and Markov is a very interesting scenario. Put Koivu up front with A. Kost, and (insert offensive-minded forward here) and you'd have a new look that would have opponents guessing again.

I don't understand why they didn't start out with Kovy on the point, he was the obvious choice. Tanguay back there is stupid, his style is all wrong for it.

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I don't understand why they didn't start out with Kovy on the point, he was the obvious choice. Tanguay back there is stupid, his style is all wrong for it.

I seem to recall a couple of years back something about a discussion like this and then hearing that Kovalev actually disliked playing the point. Disliked it vigorously. I have no link, but I think it was even Carbo that said it.

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Only the second full game I've watched.... what a joke.

If they won 25% of one-on-one battles, I'd be shocked. They were out-worked, out-hustled and out-played in every aspect of the game (except in net, credit where credit is due, Price was other-worldly). The gap between forwards and defense was atrocious, at times I was wondering if they were getting ready for the Grey Cup by going for long bombs. The line combinations showed no chemistry whatsoever. Defensive zone coverage and puck pursuit were almost non-existant.

I mean, you have to credit the Canes for coming out and playing a really good game, but seriously. Seriously? Is that what Montreal has to offer?

I have never seen more lazy passes, pass receptions, and lost pucks due to inattention before in my life in the NHL. Pucks rolling off sticks, stupid lazy receptions leading to turnovers and goals... it was just abysmal. While normally I'd agree with taking Laraque out of the lineup for a game like that, this team needs a spark. It needs something. Maybe taking an instigator to beat the living pulp out of someone is an answer, I don't know. Certainly, I have no clue why Chipper isn't in the lineup, or MaxPac either. I could name a half dozen players who are welcome to sit.

(Yes, I know and understand how the cap works and how waivers work, I'm just pointing out that this team needs something they're badly lacking.)

Where's the motivation? Where's the initiative? Other than the brief yet incisive power play display to start the second period when we scored, Montreal showed pretty much nothing. Does no one shoot on the power plays anymore? What, we've decided that since Streit and Souray are gone we must have to pass it in the net? SHOOT THE FRIKKIN PUCK. It doesn't have to be hard, it just has to hit the net. You don't score on 100% of the pucks you don't shoot. The difference between this year's PP and previous incarnations? NO ONE SHOOTS.

You know what the Habs reminded me of? A team playing shinny. You know, that bull puckey perimeter crap where you wave your stick at the opponent and attempt to keep with them, albeit one step behind. Other than one or two players, there was no physical contact. Carolina was allowed to move at will on the ice. What's even worse than all that, however, is that there just wasn't effort. It's one thing to play shinny and still use your skill to win games (see: early in the season), it's quite another to play shinny and allow pucks to drool off sticks, pass horribly, and look like you generally don't care.

This team needs focus, and it needs it badly. I'll tell you what else it needs, a bonified defensive plan. Raise your hand if you're sick and tired of watching the team run around in the defensive end like chickens sans head. For how many years have we had to put up with a defensively berift team that relies on goaltending? Don't get me wrong, I think we have talented defenders - our top-three rival the best teams in the league... or at least they should in a proper defensive system. Our system, however, is bunk.

Sergei needs to sit. For a while. Or go back to the minors and cede his spot to someone who cares. He's pathetic out there. Has Kovy played like that all year? He needs a smack upside the head. Markov - and I love Markov - was completely unfocused and looked more like Denny than Andrei. And I'm sorry, I love the guy, heart and soul, but Begin? Really? He's good on a team with Witehall and Lind. I'm not saying we don't need his type of player, because we do. But we need the next evolution of his type player. There's a reason he was up for grabs on waivers so many years ago. He should be a heart and soul player on a bottom feeding team. Not one with *snicker* Stanley Cup aspirations.

I felt embarassment for Brisebois because he hasn't lost a step, he's lost a windsprint. Seeing his legs "pump" is like watching an old Dutch windmill in a mild breeze. Pun mildly intended. Oh, and can someone put out an APB on Thomas Plekanec? 5'10, speedy, and supposed to be a top-six forward. Usually wears number 14, but I think his shirt was stolen by a reincarnation of Fat Kyle Wellwood. (Not to be mistaken for Chubby Kyle Wellwood of this season who can actually play.)

The rest of the team was, by and large, varying degrees of "meh." Unfortunately, this is the NHL, and "meh" just doesn't cut it. You can't win games on "meh" alone. There were a few solid plays, some less than stellar. Georges is turning into a very good defensive defender. Cube is Cube - I enjoyed one 15 second sequence where he actually went in two complete 360's behind our own net. Very entertaining. The Russian judge gave a 5.4. Koivu and Tanguay has some ups, some downs, and were mostly held back by Streamy McLazy Hair. You know, that 27 character... reminds one of Malakhov actually. Tons of skill, little motivation.

Incidentally, I can't understand at all why people are on the case of Latendresse. For the situations in which he's being used? Doing a fine job. Fine indeed. In fact, he's even trying to carry the play a little, and what more can you ask of a YOUNG kid still learning his craft and more importantly how to use his body. Here's a suggestion: if you really don't like him because he's French, think of him as Garry Softlove. I mean hey! This Softlove guy can hit! He also controls the puck and it was his line that was the most consistent tonight.

Which reminds me. Kostopoulous? Or however you spell that monstrosity... Why do people want him out of the lineup? Is it because of his hustle? His willingness to hit? Or maybe it's because he keeps opponents accountable to a degree. If it helps, think of him as Guillaume Kostopuolet. Or if you just don't like the Greek bent of his name, how about just Tom Kostan. There. Problem solved.

If only solving the problems of the team were easier. Coach?

Colin, great analysis.. Your post definitly sums up our team right now.

Here would be my lines for Ottawa:

Koivu Tanguay Lats

A Kosto Lang Diago

Kosto Laps Kovy

Laraque Begin Dandy

I know it won;t happen, but I would take a loss in exchange for a bigtime shakeup.

Get the message across Carbo, or take a seat!

Edited by MMPL
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It's simple really, when a team improvises and is as unprepared as the Canadiens, they're bound to look terrible against a team that hustles and forechecks as much as the Canes or the Bruins. I've mentioned this often, but I don't see a lack of effort or motivation, however I see a sorry bunch of willing individuals playing chaotic hockey as a whole. Sometimes it looks as if these guys have never played a single game together before as there's no anticipation, no support, and no distinguishable chemistry.

Guy Carbonneau re-shuffling his lines again certainly doesn't help while acquiring a new player is a short-term solution at best, one that won't fix the lack of structure in this team. As some have mentioned the first thing we need, before putting in place any kind of system or strategies, is more stability. Instead of trying to punish the AK46-Pleks-Kovy line which has proven chemistry, the coaching staff needs to work with them to make the necessary adjustments so that they can be successful again. The Tanguay-Koivu-Latendresse showed a lot of promise earlier this season, but Carbonneau was waiting for the first sign of them slowing down to insert Higgins in there as he had planed; we need to give that line another chance, and again work with them (including teaching Latendresse to work the net) to optimize efficiency. The third line of Higgins-Lang-S.Kostsitsyn barely got a handful of games together to build any kind of chemistry, patience was required here.

Finally in regards to the forth liners, Carbonneau needs to identify his roster and reserve players, they can't continually play on their toes and being scared of becoming healthy scratches, they need to know that they can take a risk without losing their spot if it goes badly. For example, there was no reason to start scratching Maxim Lapierre because of a couple of ordinary games, when he was playing great hockey earlier this season.

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What a game by Price - outstanding.

The Koivu line has been creating chances and goals all year long then along comes Kovalev and that line can't do anything. Get Kovalev off that line and perhaps put Latendresse back there. They were rocking until Higgins came back and Lats was moved.

Our Defense is ugly...Soft and weak on the boards. O'Byrne does not belong in the NHL based on what I have seen from him. Brisebois has been one of our best defensemen lately, that's how bad it is.

I don't know what the answer is but it is frustrating as hell.

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For all the in-game line mix-and-matching that Carbonneau likes to do, he picked an odd game to keep the original lines intact. Guys who didn't come to play like SK, Kovalev, and Tanguay were rewarded with more icetime in the 3rd, while the 4th line languished on the bench. I realize we needed offence, but I think putting Lats (who seemed to be using his body and creating things last night) onto one of the top 3 lines would have been worth trying, considering the others were generating virtually nothing.

Anyway, Colin pretty much nailed everything wrong with this team. The lack of focus and urgency better be fixed soon, or this Cup-contending team playing its 100th anniversary season will struggle to make the playoffs. :puke:

Edited by Mont Royale
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These line are a message sent to the players who were floating.

A lot of players are given a second chance to jump in the boat.

We'll see if they stand or fall.

Kovalev has the opportunity play with the best centre in the team.

Lang is promoted to the second offensive line. See what he gives back.

Plekanek is playing with two hard checking, defensive awared wingers.

He has to simplify is game and be more intense.

Bégin was considered a men out, he has a chance to do better than Lapierre.

Kovalev is simply out of his game.

Lang did good, very good.

Plek is a little girl, so is Higgins, Kosto could not save them for their lack of testosterone.

Bégin tried but not any better than Lapierre, 4th line was good because of Latendresse.

O'byrne is really in need of AHL playing time. Put Dandenault there he cannot do worse.

And give the 4th line role to Chip.

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Nice thread Colin and others. I do disagree about needing a trade. I think that is what is needed. Kovalev for starters. Maybe to Edmonton for Cole who is struggling. (Just dreaming)

Holy cow that game was pathetic. These guys have been pathetic for weeks, whop have they beaten since the Florida game? The worst in the West and the worst in the eat, nice effort guys.

Players who should be glad Craig McTavish is not there coach:

Kovalev

Koivu (only recently)

Tanguay (only recently)

Pleks

Higgins

Sk

The defense is so bad i am almost speachless. They can't win a battle, they can't clear the front of the net, they can't pass it out of the zone, they can't skate it out of the zone. When Gorges is your best Dman you have some issues, Not a swipe at Gorges but he is a good 3rd line pairing.

I bench Pleks and Kovalev next game. Sitting out 4th liners sends no message. In Lapierre and Laraque. Put them on the PP, it can't get worse.

I hate to bring it again, but leadership and character is once again a huge problem.

If you took the names off the jerseys this team looks exactly like the year Theo had his monter year. Just skating around soring 1 goal and letting your golaie win it. This is disgusting with the "talent" on this team.

Bg and GC NEED to make some sort of statement, bench someone, call them out, make a trade or something.

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Agree with all of the analysis on our troubles here, but I am trying to remain patient and not freak out not even 25% of the way in. It is a long year, and I really want to have the team rolling for the playoffs. We were extremely happy with the teams play down the stretch last year and then flat in the palyoffs so we know that our play right now is irrelevant other than holding our playoff spot (I'm still hoping for top 4).

The next 2 games are the type that can turn a teams motivations around. Against an arch-rival, although struggling one, in Ottawa. If the team isnt motivated and working hard against the B's at the Bell Centre saturday, after the last embarrassment, I will be convinced there is a big problem.

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17 gp 10 win 5 lost 2 lost in overtime.

.647 of points total 22 points.

Still not that bad of a result for poor performance.

But a good reality check for all the people who though the other team were formality every night.

This is the NHL and every team has NHL player caliber and some teams have way more talent than

Montreal. To sum everybody comments constant effort is needed to win.

Look ahead not behind now.

Thursday Ottawa will look for revenge.

Saturday Boston is in town, us fans want revenge what will happen, what team is gonna show up?

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Bg and GC NEED to make some sort of statement, bench someone, call them out, make a trade or something.

Carbo said about scratching guys "If the rules were different, they [some players] would be in danger"

I dont know what "rules" he's talking about. Sounds like something (or someone) has got his hands tied. What is it? Contracts? Cap? Gainey? Agents? Publicity promotions centered around some players?

He's right to be pissed if on top of repeating the same stuff he's not allowed to scratch guys that are clearly not caring enough about winning to do the dirty work.

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Kovalev is pissing me off!! For a guy playing in his contract year he's showing absolutely nothing. What was he doing the last minute of the game, clearing the puck when we had to attack!! I have nothing more to say, its just too frustrating :angry:

You summed up my thoughts. Twice Kovalev gave up the puck and made no effort to look what he was doing at the end of the game. Guess he does not want another contract with the Habs.....

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Carbo said about scratching guys "If the rules were different, they [some players] would be in danger"

I dont know what "rules" he's talking about. Sounds like something (or someone) has got his hands tied. What is it? Contracts? Cap? Gainey? Agents? Publicity promotions centered around some players?

He's right to be pissed if on top of repeating the same stuff he's not allowed to scratch guys that are clearly not caring enough about winning to do the dirty work.

By "rules" he means sending players to the minors. Only O'Byrne, Sergei Kostitsyn, and the goalies can be sent to the minors without being exposed to waivers. I guess he hasn't reached the point where he'd want to send either O'Byrne or Kostitsyn to Hamilton, but he has with other players.

It actually wouldn't surprise me if O'Byrne went to Hamilton once Komisarek gets healthy. One of Chipchura or D'Agostini would come up to fill the roster spot, with Breeze and Dandy filling the 6/7 D spots.

Again, for the question that's bound to be asked, waiver elgibility has nothing to do with 1 or 2 way contracts. It has to do with a combination of age and NHL experience. This is why Latnedresse, on a 2 way contract, would have to go through waivers and O'Byrne and Halak, who are on one-way deals, do not. Once O'Byrne hits 80 NHL games played, he becomes waiver eligible. Once both Price and Halak play 80 NHL games in their career, they too will be waiver eligible. Sergei Kostitsyn has to play 160 NHL games before he's waiver eligible. However, regardless of NHL games played, both O'Byrne and Halak will automatically be waiver eligible in 2009-10.

http://www.nhlscap.com/waivers.htm

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I think Kozed means the vets on the team. SK as bad as he has played at times also hustles, is gritty and does create some offense. He needs to shoot more.

O'Byrne is just really bad, slow footed, poor decisions.

Weber couldn't do any worse. I know Weber will shoot the puck.

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I think the biggest issue is Kovalev. When he plays hard and well, the team follows. When he floats around trying to go east west losing the puck, half the team emulates him.

This is a coaching nightmare for Carbo. Kovalev doesn't respond to punishment. He needs to feel embarrassed about his own play before he will wake up. I am starting to suspect that Carbo put Kovalev on the top line to prove to Kovalev that it is not his line mates. In fact, he just made the top line worse. Second, it gets Pleks and AK away from him. Notice how much better the boobies have played paired with Lang, you works hard and does what he is told (ie... north south not east west).

At some point, Kovalev needs to decide he is sucking and he has no one to blame but himself. Then he will play better. If he plays better, the team will play better.

If it doesn't happen by Christmas, then it is not going to happen. If I am Gainey, I am dangling Kovalev at the deadline or letting him go at the end of the year and using the money to get a more reliable, harder working player. It will be a shame, but I really believe Kovalev makes this team better, or worse, depending on his own attitude. So far, he is making them worse.

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I think the biggest issue is Kovalev. When he plays hard and well, the team follows. When he floats around trying to go east west losing the puck, half the team emulates him.

This is a coaching nightmare for Carbo. Kovalev doesn't respond to punishment. He needs to feel embarrassed about his own play before he will wake up. I am starting to suspect that Carbo put Kovalev on the top line to prove to Kovalev that it is not his line mates. In fact, he just made the top line worse. Second, it gets Pleks and AK away from him. Notice how much better the boobies have played paired with Lang, you works hard and does what he is told (ie... north south not east west).

At some point, Kovalev needs to decide he is sucking and he has no one to blame but himself. Then he will play better. If he plays better, the team will play better.

I agree with in parts about the impact Kovalev has had on this team, however I don’t agree that it is because of a lack of effort, but a lot more about his selfishness and his lack of hockey sense. Despite his elite-level physical skills (skating, puck handling, shooting …) Kovalev rarely makes the rights plays on the ice which leads to numerous turnovers and missed opportunities. He’s capable of game-breaking plays through individual efforts, but more often than not he gets countered and/or cornered for holding on the puck too long.

This is also why I’ve always said that signing Kovalev – or more specifically relying on him as a leading core player – was a mistake. You might as well build a two-storey house on quicksand, it has just about the same probability of holding up.

As for Carbonneau’s coaching nightmare, he also has his share of responsibilities, and as long as he keeps deflecting everything on the players and burying his hand in the sand, that is not going to change. This team has not played good quality hockey over the last two years, and the biggest difference between last season and the other two was that Kovalev’s individual efforts worked a lot more often.

This group of players is still playing like it was put together a couple weeks ago, and not as a coherent whole. Of course this takes a long time to put into place – as Kozed and others have mentioned it took a few years for the Red Wings to do so – however I don’t see any significant improvement from the day Carbonneau took over…. the fact that he’s still repeating the same old clichés from his debut is evidence of this. Sadly I feel the Canadiens played much better hockey when a few years ago with the likes of Koivu, Zednik, Petrov, near-retirement Gilmour, Perreault, Juneau, Savage, Rivet… teams that were much less talented, but that displayed much more line chemistry and anticipation.

On a final note, sometimes I wonder what Carbonneau’s speech would have been like had he won the Jack Adams last year. Would he have given all the credit for his players since after all he admitted that he’s powerless behind the bench, and that they are entirely responsible for the team’s success (or lack of)… would he have said “The guys worked very hard, and this award goes to them”?

Edited by CerebusClone
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No I don't think so cause jose always plays well when he is looking for a new contract It is once he gets it that he pisses the bed

True, but my point was more about how if you build your team around them, you sink and swim with the player. And there's a lot of sinking involved... both have the talent, but are incredibly unreliable.

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I agree with in parts about the impact Kovalev has had on this team, however I don’t agree that it is because of a lack of effort, but a lot more about his selfishness and his lack of hockey sense. Despite his elite-level physical skills (skating, puck handling, shooting …) Kovalev rarely makes the rights plays on the ice which leads to numerous turnovers and missed opportunities. He’s capable of game-breaking plays through individual efforts, but more often than not he gets countered and/or cornered for holding on the puck too long.

I disagree with calling Kovalev selfish per se (although the end result might be the same) - I think he is supremely confident in his own abilities. I get the sense, completely from my perception and without direct evidence, that when Kovalev feels things are going to hell he takes it upon himself to change the game. I think he can be quick to stop trusting the other players around him and try to make plays on his own - in his desperation he can make incredibly high risk plays (like ultra-low percentage passes), which can lead to him perceiving an increased need to take the game away from other players and win the game on his own. That Kovalev doesn't seem to have an innate ability (or predilection?) to drive for the net makes this a particularly bad strategy, but his skating, shooting, and passing skills make it understandable.

I think this is a particularly difficult pattern to break. Every success is a confirmation that his plan is working, every failure (whether his own or the failures of his teammates) is a confirmation that his plan is necessary. Punishment is relatively ineffective in fixing this situation not because Kovalev is obstinate, but perhaps because there is a simply a perception gap between him and the coaching staff - how can Kovalev do what Carbo wants in a given situation if he simply does not see the situation that Carbo sees?

I think the best way to get Kovalev away from the ultimately counterproductive figure-eights and behind the back passes, etc... is to try to find a way for him to trust his linemates. This might involves putting Kovalev on a line with players he thinks he can play with or getting Plekanec away from him to show Kovalev that if given the puck he can score. To that extent the current lines make sense. Especially if you think the Kostitsyns might be helped by playing together.

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