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Ribeiro

Making The Cut

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I was watching Making The Cut on CBC when one of the players at 5'5 was saying how his height was such a disadvantage in the NHL, where everyone is tall. :nono:

Tall? 6'0? Bertuzzi at 6'3 is considered huge.

If Spud Webb at 5'8 could win an NBA Slam Dunk Contest, if Earl Boykins at 5'5 could average double-digit points last season (lighting up the Wizards, Lakers and Mavericks), if Bogues can have 14 seaons in the NBA at 5'8, I think this guy can play in the NHL.

The NHL definition for "heart" is way off. To diehard NHL fans, playing without a visor and a concussion shows heart. To diehard NBA fans, playing against the all odds, and still coming out on top shows heart.

[Edited on 2004/10/27 by Ribeiro]

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What are you smoking? It doesn't even appear you like hockey half the time.

You completely make up those definitions in such a way that your league, the NBA, comes out on top. Your definitions are foolish. Playing injured and coming out on top is no different than playing against all odds and coming out on top. When you are injured, the odds are against you that you will come out on top.

I think a guy like St. Louis personifies heart in the NHL. I don't remember if he wear a visor, but it doesn't matter. The guy is small compared to the rest of the league. He went undrafted. He worked his way through the ranks and made himself a star. He overcame all the odds against him and succeeded. That is heart.

P.S. Gretzky is the Great One

[Edited on 10-27-04 by Fanpuck33]

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It doesn't even appear you like hockey half the time.

Aside from the Habs, I could give less of a sh!t about hockey. Who cares anymore? The league is locked out, the game is dying, nobodies watching.

.

I think a guy like St. Louis personifies heart in the NHL. I don't remember if he wear a visor, but it doesn't matter. The guy is small compared to the rest of the league. He went undrafted. He worked his way through the ranks and made himself a star. He overcame all the odds against him and succeeded. That is heart.

You're comparing St. Louis at 5'9, while the biggest player ever in the NHL is 6'9.

To players like Bogues, at 5'3, who's biggest worry was 7'7 George Muresan, 7'6 Sean Bradley, 7'1 Shaq, 7'1 Robinson, 7'0 Olajuwan.

What are you smoking!? That's a sick comparison, and you proved my point about NHL fans have a lesser definition for "heart".

P.S. Gretzky is the Great One

That's complete BS and anyone who knows their sport facts realizes that.

Michael Jordan in his prime was completely dominant on both defense and offense. Gretzky was not.

[Edited on 2004/10/27 by Ribeiro]

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Man you're talking BS Ribeiro ... :wall:

Who cares anymore? The league is locked out, the game is dying, nobodies watching.

That's so nosed up, argh!

You know there are still millions of people who play, watch and love this game?! The NHL isn't the only hockey league around the world ...

And always the same, silly comparisons between hockey/NHL and the NBA. Nobody wants to hear such crap ... I don't have any problem with that if you write such things in a basketball forum - there you can write how much better Jordan is than Gretzky, basketball is more exciting than hockey, and on and on. :zzz:

I'm a monkey. :monkey:

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Originally posted by Ribeiro

Aside from the Habs, I could give less of a sh!t about hockey. Who cares anymore? The league is locked out, the game is dying, nobodies watching.

Nobody is watching? That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Don't you live in Canada? And you expect me to believe nobody in Canada cares about hgockey?

You're comparing St. Louis at 5'9, while the biggest player ever in the NHL is 6'9. To players like Bogues, at 5'3, who's biggest worry was 7'7 George Muresan, 7'6 Sean Bradley, 7'1 Shaq, 7'1 Robinson, 7'0 Olajuwan.

Hmm, so now you are saying that overcoming height issues is the way to show heart in the NBA. Wow, that is pretty easy. As I showed, St. Louis overcame far more than his small size. Like you said, heart involves beating the odds. St. Louis certainly has, not only because of his size, but because he went undrafted and had to work his ass off to even make an NHL club.

All the short players you list are PG, who aren't going up against those centers. Their biggest worry is not Muresan, Shaq, etc. Their biggest worry is the guy guarding them. The guys you bring up are being guarded by guys who are closer to 6'0. The only time they get near the big guys is if they drive to the hole, where most of the time they pass, since they aren't gonna make a layup over those tall guys.

In the NHL, the small guys, like St. Louis are going up against players of all sizes. He isn't guarded by a single player for 95% of the time. He faces wingers who outweigh him by 20 pounds and D-men who outwiegh him by at least that almost every night. In a game as physical as hockey, going up against bigger guys takes a toll on your body. He gets the shit beat out of him night in and night out. If you don't think St. Louis has heart, then you are a fool.

P.S. First of all, The Great One is a nickname for Gretzky. Second of all, you are foolish for saying Jordan was the best defensive player of his era. There were many players who were more dominant in the defensive end than he was. Yes, Jordan was the most dominant on offense. But on defense, please.

P.S.S. I don't know why I bother arguing with you. You are completely stubburn and use loaded arguments when you see that you are losing. I shouldn't respond, just so you will stop responding with the foolish ideas you try to spread on this board. But at the same time, your arguments must be shot down.

[Edited on 10-27-04 by Fanpuck33]

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Originally posted by habsfannr1

And always the same, silly comparisons between hockey/NHL and the NBA. Nobody wants to hear such crap

I agree, and yet at the same time I get in the middle of such idotic arguments. I know the comparisons are stupid, but I feel the need to disprove his holier than thou attitude about the NBA and how it is so superior to the NHL.

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Originally posted by Ribeiro
It doesn't even appear you like hockey half the time.

Aside from the Habs, I could give less of a sh!t about hockey. Who cares anymore? The league is locked out, the game is dying, nobodies watching.

.

i dont really understand rooting for a team in a sport you do not enjoy. I dont go around rooting for Man U or Arsenal - I dont care - I don't enjoy watching soccer.

BTW - its good to know that you evaluate the value of a sport based on how many people watch it.

I find it funny we are talking about the whole heart issue as it relates to size. What about playing hurt? Saku had frickin' tore rib muscles and still kicked ass. What about the heart to pull a goalie in the last minute and score? What about killing penalties when down 2 men. This takes heart.

I dont dislike basketball, i enjoy watching a game every now and then, but i dont understand why you feel that in order to promote basketball you must shit all over hockey.

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Nobody is watching? That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Don't you live in Canada? And you expect me to believe nobody in Canada cares about hgockey?

The NHL and every other large league doesn't aim towards Canadians. They aim towards Americans. As one, you should have realized that.

As I showed, St. Louis overcame far more than his small size.

The players in the NHL aren't that tall. St. Louis overcame like 2 inches - not a big deal. Especially when you are pathetic enough to compare him to Bogues who overcame a height where players reach 7-ft and higher. Where Spud Webb won a Slam Dunk contest. St. Louis is a bit taller than Boykins, and Boykins plays along 7 footers, Louis doesn't. And basketball involves rebounding and jump shots, hockey doesn't. I already mentioned this. There's no use replying to you if you're just going to ignore, and bring up your old, incorrect opinions. Compared to Bogues, Bonsey and Webb, St. Louis overcame a big of crap.

All the short players you list are PG, who aren't going up against those centers.

You're a moron. The center guards the inside. A PG will try to shoot or lay it up over him. Even when they don't have to get pass a 7-ft center (which they do), they'll be facing PG at 6'3-6'7, all which are almost a feet taller than them.

In the NHL, the small guys, like St. Louis are going up against players of all sizes. H

WTF? And Bonsey isn't?

If Bonsey can pass away, so can Louis. Except Louis doesn't have to worry about someone that's 6'5 jumping in front of him.

The guys you bring up are being guarded by guys who are closer to 6'0.

WRONG. Just to point out to the forum, Fanpuck33 simply made that number up in his head to his favor. Let's look at the top PG's in the league:

Gary Payton: 6'4

Jason Kidd: 6'4

Steve Nash: 6'3

Baron Davis: 6'3

Those are just the pure PGs, so the numbers above are smaller than they should be. Especially when you consider the guards that double as SG and PG like Penny Hardaway at 6'7, Kobe Bryant at 6'6 or Ray Allen at 6'5

Second of all, you are foolish for saying Jordan was the best defensive player of his era. There were many players who were more dominant in the defensive end than he was. Yes, Jordan was the most dominant on offense. But on defense, please

Just to point out to the forum, Fanpuck33 did not check his facts correctly before making that factually incorrect comment.

Michael Jordan was the Defensive Player of the Year (1988) and Nine-time All-Defensive First Team. The only other guard to ever win the defensive player of the year award since then was Gary Payton. Despite the lies that Fanpuck33 types out, MJ was one of the most dominant players on defense in his era, and definitely the most defensive guard,, as those honors prove.

P.S.S. I don't know why I bother arguing with you. You are completely stubburn and use loaded arguments when you see that you are losing. I shouldn't respond, just so you will stop responding with the foolish ideas you try to spread on this board. But at the same time, your arguments must be shot down.

I've never lost to you in an argument and never will.

I use facts, you type BS and drivel. It's really quite easy to make up statistics and facts, but until you find some correct information, please don't bother replying. It's the equivalent of talking to a 10 year old.

Saku had frickin' tore rib muscles and still kicked ass

I mentioned this:

To diehard NHL fans, playing without a visor and a concussion shows heart.

Playing with injuries, disregard to safety and health qualifies for heart in the NHL? We have that in the NBA too, he's called Allen Iverson. He's 6'0 (but his tailor knows better), and he'll go head to head with any 7 footer out there.

What about the heart to pull a goalie in the last minute and score?

Oh no, they pulled their goalie! That shows heart! I can't believe I forgot something as stupid as pulling the goalie and comparing that to Spudd Webb winning a Slam Dunk contest!!!

Dumb thing to bring up. Pathetic comparison.

What about killing penalties when down 2 men.

You mean those two men who tried to drill the other guys head through the ice? Oh yes, lots of heart.

BTW - its good to know that you evaluate the value of a sport based on how many people watch it.

I evaluate based on talent, attitude, excitement and broadcast quality. Oh, and facts, which Fanpuck33 fails to do.

i dont understand why you feel that in order to promote basketball you must shit all over hockey

Because, it's ridiculous how people believe St. Louis has heart breaking a 2 inch barrier in height, while players like Bogue brought the 2 ft barrier and players like Webb at 5'8, could win a Slam contest.

Besides, the NHL does a great job shitting all over itself. I don't have to do anything. Imagine the NBA or NFL if the less talented players were allowed to grab onto the hands, shoving or grab and drag a player while they were about to score or while they were running down the field or court? You'd have the low-scoring NHL.

Absolutely pitiful. :nono:

[Edited on 2004/10/27 by Ribeiro]

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holy strawberries batman

you sure love to freakin quote people there ribs

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Originally posted by Ribeiro

The NHL and every other large league doesn't aim towards Canadians. They aim towards Americans. As one, you should have realized that.

They are still NHL fans in the states, but hockey is Canada's sport. It will never be as popular as other sports in the US, because people feel it isn't an American game.

The players in the NHL aren't that tall. St. Louis overcame like 2 inches - not a big deal.

Why do you overlook what I said? I said height isn't all that matters. St. Louis is outweighed by at least 15-20 pounds by most everyone in the NHL. These guys are out there checking him and giving his body a brutal beating. It takes heart to go out there every night taking that kind of punishment. Going up against taller people in the NBA is difficult, but heart has nothing to do with overcoming this disadvantage. It takes skill to get them off their feet, or good moves to get around them. St. Louis goes into the corners and gets checked into the boards by much bigger players. Getting up every time and playing at you best shows heart.

Just to point out to the forum, Fanpuck33 did not check his facts correctly before making that factually incorrect comment.

Tell me where I said MJ was a poor defender? I just said he wasn't the absolute best, as you implied. Gretzky did so much more for hockey than MJ did for basketball. When MJ played, basketball was already flourishing after the Bird vs. Magic showdowns of the 80s. When Gretzky started playing hockey, there were few storng American markets and not many television deals. Gretzky brought new found glory to the NHL, and people began to take notice. Look at the expansion that was able to happen as a result of this increased popularity.

I use facts, you type BS and drivel. It's really quite easy to make up statistics and facts, but until you find some correct information, please don't bother replying.

You are the one who often posts incorrect information, and completely unreliable websites that support your side of the argument. (Not here, but in other arguments)

Playing with injuries, disregard to safety and health qualifies for heart in the NHL? We have that in the NBA too, he's called Allen Iverson. He's 6'0 (but his tailor knows better), and he'll go head to head with any 7 footer out there.

So why is it ok for playing hurt to qualify as heart for the NBA, but not for the NHL? You implied playing hurt in the NHL doesn't show heart. Here you imply that it does? Well make up your mind. You are like John Kerry.

Imagine the NBA or NFL if the less talented players were allowed to grab onto the hands, shoving or grab and drag a player while they were about to score or while they were running down the field or court?

Umm, scoring is way down in the NBA if you haven't noticed. Why? Because players get away with pushing and shoving each other around. And have you never noticed how often WR get away with pass interference? Randy Moss does it on almost every single play.

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They are still NHL fans in the states, but hockey is Canada's sport. It will never be as popular as other sports in the US, because people feel it isn't an American game.

They could make it America's game like they did with basketball (invented in Canada). However, why would they follow a boring sport with low scores, no strategy and winning goals resulting from lucky bounces?

They have very little fans in the states. So little that High School sports get higher television ratings. And after the strike, expect less. Half of Americans don't even realize that the NHL is locked out.

St. Louis is outweighed by at least 15-20 pounds by most everyone in the NHL

Shaq outweights Allen Iverson by 160lbs - basically a grown, healthy man. I'm not even going to bother measuing Boykins, so the differences are closer than they should be (Boykins is outweighed by a lot more than 160lbs). And Allen Iverson is a drive-in SG, who kept on getting pounded during the Championship series they had against the Lakers. He had multiple injuries, but still kept on getting pounded and drawing fouls.

First, you were comparing St. Louis being 6'8 in a 6'0 league to Bogues being 5'3 in a league with numerous 7' footers. Now, you're comparing Louis being outweighed 15-20lbs to AI, Webb, Bogues and Boykins being outweighed by well over 160lbs+.

Whatever point you're trying to prove has failed miserably.

I just said he wasn't the absolute best, as you implied.

Not many people realize this because of his multiple scoring titles but

he was the absolute best defender for one year (he won best defender!), and he was the best defender at his position 9 times during his career.

Certainly a better defender than Gretzky.

I just said he wasn't the absolute best, as you implied. Gretzky did so much more for hockey than MJ did for basketball. When MJ played, basketball was already flourishing after the Bird vs. Magic showdowns of the 80s. When Gretzky started playing hockey, there were few storng American markets and not many television deals. Gretzky brought new found glory to the NHL, and people began to take notice. Look at the expansion that was able to happen as a result of this increased popularity.

Just because the NBA had talent before Jordan came in doesn't mean he didn't do anything for the sport.

Ratings dropped when Jordan left the league (interest dropped). Jordan revolutionized what a superstar is - a great all around player (excelling at everything). He was on one of the greatest dynasties of all time. MJ brought major attention to the game. The basketball market gained so much attention he had his own shoe/clothing brand; gretzky did not. MJ was featured in movies along with other NBA stars. He definitely made the NBA more popular and denying that is useless.

You are the one who often posts incorrect information, and completely unreliable websites that support your side of the argument. (Not here, but in other arguments)

I actually post sources, you don't. You just type unbacked opinions and pass them off as facts.

So why is it ok for playing hurt to qualify as heart for the NBA, but not for the NHL? You implied playing hurt in the NHL doesn't show heart. Here you imply that it does?

Playing with 9 concussions = Stupidity

Playing through arm, hip and foot injury = tough

I was simply contradicting the NHL view for one of the biggest definitions of heart: playing injured. NBA players played injured, so do NFLers. Why do NHL fans act like their players are the only ones to do so? Well, they're the only ones that'll purposely give each other concussions, I guess that counts.

Umm, scoring is way down in the NBA if you haven't noticed.

Yeah, way down:

LA Lakers vs T-Wolves Round 3:

Game 1- 97-88

2- 89-71

3- 89-100

4- 85-92

5- 96-98

6- 90-96

Kings vs Dallas Round 1:

Game1- 105-116

2-79-83

3-79-104

4-94-92

5-118-119

Scores no lower than 80 and exceeding 100, and you say that's a problem? The NHL can only dream of having exciting offense like that and teams like the Dallas Mavericks who put up breathetaking offensive performances.

Why? Because players get away with pushing and shoving each other around.

No, because of great, ruthless and exciting defensive plays. Unlike the NHL, they don't shove, grab, push and drag (I'm sure you were about to say that the NHL had exciting defense). The NBA has great shot blocking, steals and ruthless defensive plays so the other teams can't get a quality shot in 24 secs. (see Pistons vs Lakers Final Round).

And have you never noticed how often WR get away with pass interference? Randy Moss does it on almost every single play. [/quote

Pass interference is called on the Corner for interferring with the receiver.

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Originally posted by Ribeiro

Shaq outweights Allen Iverson by 160lbs - basically a grown, healthy man.

But Iverson isn't getting checked hard into the boards every night. And Shaq gets away with so much it is disgusting. All he does is cheat by pushing people out of his way and dunking. He is one of the many things wrong with the NBA.

I actually post sources, you don't. You just type unbacked opinions and pass them off as facts.

First of all, neither of us has posted any links to back up your information in this argument. Secondly, in previous arguments you have posted links to personal Geocities sites, which you have no way of knowing whether or not they are correct in their facts.

Playing with 9 concussions = Stupidity

And NHL fans agree.

Scores no lower than 80 and exceeding 100, and you say that's a problem? The NHL can only dream of having exciting offense like that and teams like the Dallas Mavericks who put up breathetaking offensive performances.

You are obviously very young, or you would see that during the 80s teams consistently scored over 100 points, often reaching at least 110. Nowadays, as you can see, 100 points is the exception rather than the rule. So yes, scoring is down.

Unlike the NHL, they don't shove, grab, push and drag (I'm sure you were about to say that the NHL had exciting defense). The NBA has great shot blocking, steals and ruthless defensive plays so the other teams can't get a quality shot in 24 secs. (see Pistons vs Lakers Final Round).

From the parts of the finals I watched, all I saw was pushing and shoving in the paint, and the Pistons getting away with push-offs all the time. The NBA is not supposed to be a physical sport, but it has turned into one. This is one of the reasons scoring is down, the same as the NHL: the refs let the players get away with far too many rule infractions.

Pass interference is called on the Corner for interferring with the receiver.

Hello?!?! Have you never heard of offensive pass interference? Watch Randy Moss play a game, and you will see that he gets open by pushing off almost every time. He has gotten very good at getting away with cheating. Offensive pass interference occurs much more often than it is called.

[Edited on 10-28-04 by Fanpuck33]

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By the way, here is a link for you: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/statitude...lowscoring_nba/

And here are the yearly averages:

Season GP FG% 3P% FT% TRb Ast PF Stl Trn Blk Pnts

1946-47 - 60.2 .279 .... .641 .... 6.9 20.8 .... .... .... 67.7

1947-48 - 48.0 .284 .... .675 .... 7.0 22.2 .... .... .... 72.6

1948-49 - 60.0 .327 .... .703 .... 18.6 25.6 .... .... .... 80.0

1949-50 - 66.0 .340 .... .714 .... 19.6 27.0 .... .... .... 88.0

1950-51 - 64.4 .357 .... .732 46.8 21.0 27.0 .... .... .... 84.1

1951-52 - 66.0 .367 .... .735 51.8 21.9 26.9 .... .... .... 83.7

1952-53 - 70.2 .370 .... .716 48.9 21.0 28.8 .... .... .... 82.7

1953-54 - 72.0 .372 .... .709 48.4 20.3 25.4 .... .... .... 79.5

1954-55 - 72.0 .385 .... .738 53.1 23.6 24.8 .... .... .... 93.9

1955-56 - 72.0 .387 .... .745 56.5 24.3 26.4 .... .... .... 99.0

1956-57 - 72.0 .380 .... .751 58.0 18.9 25.1 .... .... .... 99.6

1957-58 - 72.0 .383 .... .746 65.9 19.6 25.5 .... .... .... 106.6

1958-59 - 72.0 .395 .... .756 62.3 19.6 26.0 .... .... .... 108.2

1959-60 - 75.0 .409 .... .735 66.2 22.6 25.6 .... .... .... 115.3

1960-61 - 79.0 .415 .... .733 66.0 24.2 26.8 .... .... .... 118.1

1961-62 - 80.0 .426 .... .727 64.3 23.9 25.9 .... .... .... 118.8

1962-63 - 80.0 .441 .... .727 60.1 22.7 26.0 .... .... .... 115.3

1963-64 - 80.0 .433 .... .722 59.3 21.4 26.8 .... .... .... 111.0

1964-65 - 80.0 .426 .... .721 60.5 21.0 26.0 .... .... .... 110.6

1965-66 - 80.0 .433 .... .727 61.4 22.9 26.2 .... .... .... 115.5

1966-67 - 81.0 .441 .... .732 60.6 22.4 26.2 .... .... .... 117.4

1967-68 - 82.0 .446 .... .720 59.6 22.8 26.3 .... .... .... 116.6

1968-69 - 82.0 .441 .... .714 52.9 23.1 25.5 .... .... .... 112.3

1969-70 - 82.0 .460 .... .751 53.1 24.7 25.7 .... .... .... 116.7

1970-71 - 82.0 .449 .... .745 51.1 24.3 24.4 .... .... .... 112.4

1971-72 - 82.0 .455 .... .748 51.1 24.1 23.6 .... .... .... 110.2

1972-73 - 82.0 .456 .... .758 50.3 25.2 22.8 .... .... .... 107.6

1973-74 - 82.0 .459 .... .771 48.2 24.6 23.8 8.70 20.8 4.71 105.7

1974-75 - 82.0 .457 .... .765 47.1 23.8 24.3 8.80 19.9 4.26 102.6

1975-76 - 82.0 .458 .... .751 47.4 23.0 24.8 8.93 19.8 4.44 104.5

1976-77 - 82.0 .465 .... .751 47.1 22.8 25.2 9.37 20.6 5.07 106.6

1977-78 - 82.0 .469 .... .752 47.1 25.0 25.2 9.60 20.1 5.13 108.5

1978-79 - 82.0 .485 .... .752 45.2 25.8 25.3 9.13 19.8 5.37 110.3

1979-80 - 82.0 .488 .280 .764 44.9 25.8 24.4 9.41 18.9 5.30 109.3

1980-81 - 82.0 .491 .245 .751 43.5 25.5 25.1 9.00 18.7 5.32 108.1

1981-82 - 82.0 .497 .262 .746 43.5 25.2 26.2 8.54 17.7 5.37 108.6

1982-83 - 82.0 .492 .238 .740 42.6 25.9 25.6 8.89 19.1 5.60 108.5

1983-84 - 82.0 .499 .250 .760 41.2 26.2 25.8 8.50 17.9 5.30 110.3

1984-85 - 82.0 .499 .282 .764 43.5 26.3 24.9 8.55 17.9 5.32 110.8

1985-86 - 82.0 .495 .282 .756 43.6 26.0 25.2 8.79 17.8 5.26 110.2

1986-87 - 82.0 .480 .301 .763 44.0 26.0 24.5 8.62 17.0 5.52 109.9

1987-88 - 82.0 .480 .316 .766 43.4 25.8 24.1 8.51 16.7 5.39 108.2

1988-89 - 82.0 .477 .323 .768 43.9 25.5 23.7 9.09 17.2 5.34 109.2

1989-90 - 82.0 .476 .335 .764 43.1 24.9 23.3 8.52 16.1 5.06 107.0

1990-91 - 82.0 .474 .320 .765 43.3 24.7 23.2 8.59 16.0 5.26 106.3

1991-92 - 82.0 .472 .331 .759 43.7 24.5 22.2 8.65 15.5 5.51 105.3

1992-93 - 82.0 .473 .337 .755 43.1 24.7 23.2 8.55 15.9 5.22 105.3

1993-94 - 82.0 .466 .333 .734 43.0 24.4 22.2 8.88 16.0 5.23 101.5

1994-95 - 82.0 .466 .359 .736 41.6 23.4 23.5 8.28 16.0 5.16 101.4

1995-96 - 82.0 .462 .367 .740 41.3 22.7 23.0 7.98 15.8 5.06 99.5

1996-97 - 82.0 .455 .360 .738 41.1 22.0 22.1 8.20 15.7 4.91 96.9

1997-98 - 82.0 .450 .346 .737 41.5 22.0 22.4 8.39 15.5 5.07 95.6

1998-99 - 50.0 .437 .339 .728 41.7 20.7 22.2 8.35 15.3 4.96 91.6

1999-00 - 82.0 .449 .353 .750 42.9 22.3 23.3 7.94 15.5 5.17 97.5

2000-01 - 82.0 .443 .354 .748 42.5 21.8 22.3 7.80 14.8 5.30 93.8

EDIT: Reformatted trying to make the stats align better, failed.

[Edited on 10-28-04 by Fanpuck33]

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But Iverson isn't getting checked hard into the boards every night

Iverson constantly gets a beating in games out there. That's common knowledge for any NBA fan. It's not unneccesary either like the crap players pull in the NHL (cross-checks, slashes). Of course, AI doesn't have pads, unlike St. Louis. I'd much rather have Jovanoski hit me while I'm in mid air than Shaq or Chris Weber.

And Shaq gets away with so much it is disgusting. All he does is cheat by pushing people out of his way and dunking. He is one of the many things wrong with the NBA.

Ironic how a fan of the NHL is complaining about cheating and pushing in the NBA, when roughing/fighting/slashing/cross-checking gets a 2 minute minor and the league has players that'll punch each other in the head or hack heads off with ther sticks.

First of all, neither of us has posted any links to back up your information in this argument

Playoff stats were from NBA.com

Player weights/heights were from TSN.ca/nba and NBA.com.

Earl Boykin stats are from ESPN.

Michael Jordan stats are from NBA.com's history section.

Now, where are your sources froM?

You are obviously very young, or you would see that during the 80s teams consistently scored over 100 points, often reaching at least 110. Nowadays, as you can see, 100 points is the exception rather than the rule. So yes, scoring is down.

Ironic how an NHL fan is complaining about low-scores in the NBA (80-100PPG) while the NHL struggles to get enough shots on net.

The NBA is not supposed to be a physical sport, but it has turned into one.

No, it's a known fact that being in the paint can get rough. That's no secret. NASCAR even did a commercial about it. You can ask AI, who often drives into the paint (without pads, into 7 footers).

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<i>Yeah, way down:

LA Lakers vs T-Wolves Round 3:

Game 1- 97-88

2- 89-71

3- 89-100

4- 85-92

5- 96-98

6- 90-96

Kings vs Dallas Round 1:

Game1- 105-116

2-79-83

3-79-104

4-94-92

5-118-119

</i>

Yes, what a tremendous sample of evidence you have there. Hey, let's take 2 high scoring series from last years playoffs and then they will see how high scoring the NBA is.

The Habs played an 8-0 game against Pittsburgh and a 6-4 game against Chicago, i guess NHL scoring is doing alright now.

<i>

Let's look at the top PG's in the league:

Gary Payton: 6'4

</i>

Gary Payton is a top PG?

<i>They could make it America's game like they did with basketball (invented in Canada). </i>

</i>

This is false. Do not fill this argument with incorrect statements.

<i>I've never lost to you in an argument and never will. </i>

Similar to Ricky Henderson's "I am the greatest of all time" statement. Truly pompous, and few would agree with it.

<i>

If Spud Webb at 5'8 could win an NBA Slam Dunk Contest</i>

Good for Spud. I am really happy he could win a gimmick event at the all-star game. What a tremendous accomplishment.

Wayne Gretzky has nothing on Al Iafrate, i bet he can't even beat him in the hardest shot competition.

Why don't you join an NBA board already and quit bashing the NHL at a hockey board? It doesn't make sense.

[Edited on 28/10/04 by Quebecois]

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Originally posted by Ribeiro

Scores no lower than 80 and exceeding 100, and you say that's a problem? The NHL can only dream of having exciting offense like that and teams like the Dallas Mavericks who put up breathetaking offensive performances.

I hate to get involved in this thread, but I will. Since when are games only exciting when they are high scoring? I've seen many exciting low scoring NHL games, or at least average-scoring games.

And you cant compare to the NBA's scoring to the NHL's, whats the point? Of course the NHL will never get scores nearly as high as the NBA, the games are completely different. I agree the NHL isnt perfect, but its not as big of a pile of crap as you make it out to be.

Personally I fall asleep when I watch any non-playoff NBA game, I'm just not very interested in Basketball.

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Originally posted by puck7x

I hate to get involved in this thread, but I will.

I feel the same way, but for some reason I feel compelled to defend against Ribeiro's claims. I know it is pointless, but for some reason I keep going. Perhaps it's because I don't want to do what I should be doing, work.

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Originally posted by Ribeiro

Ironic how an NHL fan is complaining about low-scores in the NBA (80-100PPG) while the NHL struggles to get enough shots on net.

It isn't ironic at all. I know full well scoring is down in the NHL. I was simply attacking your stance that scoring is high in the NBA. I accomplished this, as I have proven that scoring is down quite a bit in the NBA. Low scoring in the NHL has nothing to do with this argument. Stop changing the subject when you know you are beaten.

By the way, who is this Bonsey you keep talking about?

[Edited on 10-28-04 by Fanpuck33]

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although james naismith was a canadian, he was in Springfield, MA when he invented basketball and did so with the help of his american students. That is why the basketball hall of fame is in springfield, MA.

Fun fact - holyoke, MA - just a few minutes from springfield is the home of volleyball and the volleyball hall of fame is there too.

Wasn't the first football game between McGill and Harvard? Kinda off-topic, but I was curious.

I'm surprised that we are being pushed to defend our sport inside our own forum.... weird. I thought this was a place where people met up to discuss their mutual interest and love of hockey and the habs.

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Yes, what a tremendous sample of evidence you have there. Hey, let's take 2 high scoring series from last years playoffs and then they will see how high scoring the NBA is.

I posted from of 11 games in the playoffs. You can check NBA.com for more, and scores are 80-100 with the exception of the extremely defensive-minded Pistons (and their series with Pacers).

The Habs played an 8-0 game against Pittsburgh and a 6-4 game against Chicago, i guess NHL scoring is doing alright now.

Illogical comparison. You gave 2 examples from the playoffs, I gave 11. Try again.

Gary Payton is a top PG?

Yes, for awhile now. Maybe you should start following basketball as opposed to making uninformed comments like, "The Lakers were a 2-man dynasty."

This is false. Do not fill this argument with incorrect statements.

It was invented by a Canadian minister, 1 man - a Canadian, what's your point?

Basketball is unusual in that it is a sport that was invented essentially by one man.

In 1891, Dr. James Naismith, a Canadian minister on the faculty of a college for YMCA professionals in Springfield, Massachusetts, sought an indoor game of vigor and grace to keep young men occupied during the long New England winters. - Wikipedia

and few would agree with it.

It's not feasible to lose an argument when your opponent writes drivel as opposed to facts.

Good for Spud. I am really happy he could win a gimmick event at the all-star game. What a tremendous accomplishment.

At 5'8, it was a tremendous accomplishment. Al Iafrate doesn't have a foot advantage over Gretzky. Webb was competing in a slam dunk contest and won. Are you too stupid to understand the signifigance of that?

Tons of modern stars (just in the 90s) have won that contest including Kobe Bryant, Vince Carter, Isiah Rider and Jordan of course, while finalists included Tracy McGrady and Steve Francis.

Why don't you join an NBA board already and quit bashing the NHL at a hockey board?

This is an off-topic board at a Habs site. I have no problem with a Habs, but I do have a problem with ignorant NHL fans like you, who actually believe that a failing league like the NHL and its players are a success compared to the NBA.

I agree the NHL isnt perfect, but its not as big of a pile of crap as you make it out to be.

Right now the NHL is a pile of crap. Not even that - it's non-existant. Even Guy Lafleur thinks it's time for the NHL to declare bankruptcy. It's time to take it out back and shoot it.

It isn't ironic at all. I know full well scoring is down in the NHL. I was simply attacking your stance that scoring is high in the NBA. I accomplished this

You haven't accomplished anything besides proving that the NHL lacks the offensive excitement as the NBA, defensive excitement, plays and talent. As well as the fact that MJ is superior to Gretzky at their sports.

Thank you for proving my points and accomplishing nothing in 2 pages.

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I think this is the second dumbest thing I have ever read.

I bet St.Louis would love to have all the NHL D-men triyng to jump up in front of his shots instead of trying to put him through the boards...and then there's the forwards!

My God.... I was sucked into a comment afterall.

Merde

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Originally posted by simonus

Fun fact - holyoke, MA - just a few minutes from springfield is the home of volleyball and the volleyball hall of fame is there too.

Yeah volleyball!

Originally posted by Habitforming

My God.... I was sucked into a comment afterall.

I know the feeling. I know I waste my time arguing against his foolish claims and false statements bcked up b misleading facts, but I feel compelled to make sure people see the true side of the story.

Ribeiro, this is an off topic forum, so it is fine for ou to show your support for the NBA. But going around bashing the NHL is ridiculous. We are all hockey fans here. We know the pros and cons of the sport. We don't need you spreading drivel talking about how bad this league is. This is a Habs site, therefore a hockey site, so stop bashing the sport that we all hold dear. We know its flaws, but we also see the overwhelming good in the game, which you fail to see.

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I bet St.Louis would love to have all the NHL D-men triyng to jump up in front of his shots instead of trying to put him through the boards...and then there's the forwards!

Hitting is exists in basketball too, dumbass. Watch AI or Francis drive into the paint and get pounded afterwards. I'd much rather be pushed into the boards by some hockey player 2 inches taller than have some 7'0, angry black guy throw me to the ground.

St. Louis didn't overcome that much as far as size goes. Live with the facts. He's got nothing on Boykins, Mogues or Webb. He doesn't even have anything on 6 footers like Iverson as far as overcoming size.

I know the feeling. I know I waste my time arguing against his foolish claims and false statements bcked up b misleading facts, but I feel compelled to make sure people see the true side of the story.

The immature and desperate, "I know you are but what am I?" technique. You haven't used any facts or common sense with your claims, except accusing the NBA of having problems actually associated with the NHL. Pitiful.

We know its flaws, but we also see the overwhelming good in the game, which you fail to see.

[We know its flaws, but we also see the overwhelming good in the game, which you fail to see.

You obviously don't realize the flaws in the game if you believe that St. Louis is actually an athlete who overcame large 'size disadvantages'. It's common sense: 5'8 vs 6'0, 5'5 vs 7'0

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So basically what you are saying is that every player in the NHL is 6' and all NBA players are 7' ?

Now maybe you see why I said the last post was the SECOND stupidest thing I have ever read.

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<i>Yes, for awhile now. Maybe you should start following basketball as opposed to making uninformed comments like, "The Lakers were a 2-man dynasty."

</i>

I am beginning to doubt how much you actually know about the NBA. SI has Payton ranked as the 52nd best player in the league. Sportsline had him as the 11th best PG in the league. In his prime he was elite, he's not even close anymore though.

<i>At 5'8, it was a tremendous accomplishment. Al Iafrate doesn't have a foot advantage over Gretzky. Webb was competing in a slam dunk contest and won. Are you too stupid to understand the signifigance of that?

Tons of modern stars (just in the 90s) have won that contest including Kobe Bryant, Vince Carter, Isiah Rider and Jordan of course, while finalists included Tracy McGrady and Steve Francis.

</i>

I don't know if you realize this, but a Slam Dunk competition is not basketball. We were talking about the National Basketball Assosciation, a Slam Dunk competition is not real basketball. I already mentioned that it is a tremendous accomplishment, but it is judged by random celebs/former players that give their personal opinion on the dunk And don't tell me that the judges weren't favouring the little guy.

<i>Hitting is exists in basketball too, dumbass. Watch AI or Francis drive into the paint and get pounded afterwards. I'd much rather be pushed into the boards by some hockey player 2 inches taller than have some 7'0, angry black guy throw me to the ground. </i>

Do you really think that basketball is a more physical sport than hockey?

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