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Ribeiro

Making The Cut

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So basically what you are saying is that every player in the NHL is 6' and all NBA players are 7' ?

Miscomprehension on your part. The fact is that NBA players are both larger and heavier than NHL players. So Earl Boykins, Bogues had to overcome more than St. Louis, who gets way too much credit for overcoming 2 inches.

You guys act as if he's Allen Iverson or something like he's playing against 7 footers. Ridiculously stupid, then again, so are your posts.

Now maybe you see why I said the last post was the SECOND stupidest thing I have ever read.

So I guess that proves that you don't read your own posts.

I am beginning to doubt how much you actually know about the NBA. SI has Payton ranked as the 52nd best player in the league. Sportsline had him as the 11th best PG in the league. In his prime he was elite, he's not even close anymore though.

Most of those are fantasy rankings. TSN has him ranked as a Top 25 Guard. He didn't get huge numbers last season because he was a support player for the Lakers, but he still managed to win the Conference Championship. 1 sub-par season that we knew was going to happen before it even started. No big deal. And you're a sports writer? Who hired you!?

Do you really think that basketball is a more physical sport than hockey?

If you're talking about having to be physically fit then yes. If you're talking about the main attributes of athletes: endurance, jumping, speed, and taking hits in mid-air, then yes.

If you're talking about getting physical like punching the hell out of someone, slamming faces into the ice/glass or blinding someone with a stick, then no. Good God, no. That kind of behavior is exclusive to NHL hockey.

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Originally posted by Ribeiro

If you're talking about having to be physically fit then yes. If you're talking about the main attributes of athletes: endurance, jumping, speed, and taking hits in mid-air, then yes.

Hehehe. I'd like to see an NBA player try to go a full NHL game playing 1st line minutes. They'd be huffing and puffing after 3 shifts.

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Originally posted by Fanpuck33
Originally posted by Ribeiro

If you're talking about having to be physically fit then yes. If you're talking about the main attributes of athletes: endurance, jumping, speed, and taking hits in mid-air, then yes.

Hehehe. I'd like to see an NBA player try to go a full NHL game playing 1st line minutes. They'd be huffing and puffing after 3 shifts.

When did "jumping, and taking hits in mid-air" become attributes of athletes? Are you still an athlete if you don't play basketball?

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Hehehe. I'd like to see an NBA player try to go a full NHL game playing 1st line minutes. They'd be huffing and puffing after 3 shifts.

No problem:

Time On Ice Leaders in the NHL:

Lidstrom 27:39 mpg

Pronger 27:27 mpg

Adrian Aucoin 26:37

Mattias Ohlund 25:47

Scott Niedermayer 25.55

(NHL.com)

Minutes Per Game leaders in the NBA:

Iverson 42.5 mpg

Marion 40.7 mpg

J. Johnson 40.6 mpg

Francis 40.4 mpg

Cuttino Mobley 40.4 mpg

Pedrag Stojakovic 40.3 mpg

(NBA.com)

Gee, I wonder how AI and the rest of the NBA ballers will feel about having his minutes dramatically cut down. Meh, I'm sure they'll learn to enjoy their 14 minute breaks w/ shifts.

When did "jumping, and taking hits in mid-air" become attributes of athletes?

Instead of just taking selected parts out of the statement, make sure to mention the whole thing or your post will simply be disregarded.

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Originally posted by Ribeiro

Gee, I wonder how AI and the rest of the NBA ballers will feel about having his minutes dramatically cut down. Meh, I'm sure they'll learn to enjoy their 14 minute breaks w/ shifts.

I remain unimpressed. Let's see those guys put skates on and play at full speed in a hockey game. You are silly if you think basketball players are in any better shape than hockey players.

Instead of just taking selected parts out of the statement, make sure to mention the whole thing or your post will simply be disregarded.

Your post is the one that should be disregarded. You listed those two things as part of your definition of an athlete. Habitforming's post was completely valid. It wasn't like he twisted what you said by leaving part of it out. He simply pointed out that 2 of the so-called attributes of an athlete you listed are sketchy at best. How is taking a mid air hit part of being an athlete? That shows toughness, not athletecism.

[Edited on 11-1-04 by Fanpuck33]

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Man it's really getting bored .... we all know that basketball is more exciting and physical than hockey - dunno! :wall: :zzz:

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Just an interesting note. There are 16 markets that have both an NHL team and an NBA team. Using percent capacity, the NHL team drew better during the 2003-2004 season than the NBA team in 12 of those 16 markets, with the only exceptions being Dallas, Chicago, LA and Phoenix.

Maybe the NBA isn't as popular as you think Ribeiro?

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Originally posted by Quebecois

Just an interesting note. There are 16 markets that have both an NHL team and an NBA team. Using percent capacity, the NHL team drew better during the 2003-2004 season than the NBA team in 12 of those 16 markets, with the only exceptions being Dallas, Chicago, LA and Phoenix.

Maybe the NBA isn't as popular as you think Ribeiro?

Plus dont arenas which host NBA and NHL teams have a larger seating capacity for NBA games? (courtside seats) ... Thats another mark against the NBA.

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I remain unimpressed. Let's see those guys put skates on and play at full speed in a hockey game.

It takes more effort to run up and down a basketball rink than to skate up and down a hockey rank (assuming the ice skater is of at least intermediate level). That's common sense, less friction = less resistance. Ice has less friction.

I remain unimpressed. Let's see those guys put skates on and play at full speed in a hockey game.

Using television ratings and overall attendance, the NBA wins. What's your point? If the NHL isn't successful in huge cities such as Dallas, Los Angelos and Chicago, that's just pathetic. I'll give you Phoenix, due to the weather not making winter sports popular.

NHL = League that's locked-out. League that LaFleur suggested should "declar bankruptcy". League with record low NHL Cup playoff ratings.

Too easy.

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<i>Using television ratings and overall attendance, the NBA wins. What's your point? If the NHL isn't successful in huge cities such as Dallas, Los Angelos and Chicago, that's just pathetic. I'll give you Phoenix, due to the weather not making winter sports popular. </i>

If your going to give me Phoenix because of the weather, shouldn't you give me LA and Dallas too? The fact that Miami chose the NHL is ridiculous.

And what about the biggest city of them all? NYC chose the pathetic Rangers over the playoff bound Knicks.

Your point about the NBA winning in overall attendance is dumb because NBA arenas have higher capacity than NHL arenas. That's like saying that the Blue Jays are more popular than the Leafs because the Jays drew more fans and had a higher average attendance.

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Originally posted by Ribeiro

I remain unimpressed. Let's see those guys put skates on and play at full speed in a hockey game.

It takes more effort to run up and down a basketball rink than to skate up and down a hockey rank (assuming the ice skater is of at least intermediate level). That's common sense, less friction = less resistance. Ice has less friction.

Are you being serious Ribeiro? Common sense, less friction? First of all it is a different motion, so different energy exertion. Secondly, the logic would be less energy exerted at the same speed. But they dont move at the same speed, it is much, much faster in hockey - thus, your argument doesnt really hold water. Athletes in all sports are very well trained and athletic.... its kind of a silly metric y'all are using. I can't really be sure about this, but the overall defensive posturing of NBA teams seems more immobile than that of the NHL. I see guys walking or standing still a lot at times....

NHL = League that's locked-out. League that LaFleur suggested should "declar bankruptcy". League with record low NHL Cup playoff ratings.

Too easy.

Im sorry, lafleur was a fantastic hockey player, but quoting him as a source for policy initiatives is a little much. I dont think anybody disagrees in essence that the NHL has an american popularity problem... you seem to insinuate that nobody watches hockey in the US. Statistically there has been a slight but significant slide over the last few years, but there is a very real fan base that is represented in many markets. BTW - bankruptcy does not mean cessation of operations. It is a system of removing a debt cloud (I dont know if lafleur realized this when making his statement). Look at another ailing industry - airlines. Many currently operating airlines have declared bankrupcy - if you go to the airport it seems that their planes are still flying and will continue to do so for some time to come.

You attack the NHL's popularity based on the fact that it is locked out. Many very popular sports, like all major US sports, have had relatively recent labor stoppages, it isnt really an indication of relative popularity. Now, the relatively small amount of attention that the lockout has received in US media does forebode an apathy, but one could make an argument that the intense election, war, and red sox world series run could account for a portion of the lower coverage, although certainly not all. It will be interesting to see if in a week or two, as the election coverage winds down (hopefully) whether there are more hockey stories.

Relative basketball and hockey attendance in competetive markets is an interesting statistic. Is detroit a hockey town? I would imagine yes, but I do not have your figures. It would be quite impressive if a one round playoff hockey team could beat a world championship basketball team We are forgetting that the NHL abandoned certain (relatively) high attendance markets for lower attendance markets in the hopes of spreading the game, especially on TV (which has basically failed as to date). Hartford had better attendance than carolina, as did winnepeg and the decision to put new franchises in atlanta, nashville, florida is kinda funny in view of the lack of pro hockey in Quebec City.

Anyways, just trying to calm down the conversation

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