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Ribeiro

Favourite NBA Team?

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What is your favourite NBA team? Mine are the Seattle Supersonics (long time fan) and Houston Rockets (2 years ago).

The Rockets have been a bit of a disappointment so far, with Yao and T-Mac nursing injuries. Disappointing to see that T-Mac didn't get a chance to play against Kobe.

The Sonics are doing awesome. Daniels is finally getting the minutes he deserves (former Vancouver Grizzly). Ray Allen and Lewis are both awesome as expected. The only problem is that Daniels should start instead of Ridnour.

How are your teams doing so far?

[Edited on 2004-12-30 by puck7x]

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I'm a Raptors fan if anything. Don't follow them incredibly closely but they are off to a solid start. Vince is averaging less than 15 points a game but they Raps are playing a team-oriented game right now and are winning some games against some tough opponents.

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I don't follow the NBA too awful much, because it is so hard to watch, but I do follow the Pacers, but only because Larry Bird is their President.

Antonio Daniels, I can't stand him. He went to my High School's arch rival, the same school most of my grade school friends went to. Made the rivalry that much better.

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I'm a Raptors fan if anything. Don't follow them incredibly closely but they are off to a solid start. Vince is averaging less than 15 points a game but they Raps are playing a team-oriented game right now and are winning some games against some tough opponents.

The game against Portland showed that Toronto can play well without Carter.

He'll be swapped by Christmas. Hopefully for Abdur-Rahim.

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You talked about the pool like you know basketball but tell me where Rahim fits in if we have Bosh and Marshall at PF? Don't tell me you'd stick him at the 3 permanently either...it's not his best position and we have Murray, Mo Pete and Rose that can all slide into that spot as well. Sure he could get some minutes there but we'd have trouble getting him 25+ minutes a night.

Use Carter in a trade for a guy like Artest, Allen or Peja. If that's not available then trade him for an expiring contract and some good young players/quality draft picks.

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You talked about the pool like you know basketball but tell me where Rahim fits in if we have Bosh and Marshall at PF?  

Rahim can play ahead of Marshall, he's much more talented. Shareef played 3 constantly during his time in Vancouver. If he wants to play PF, then let him.

Rose is just as uncomfortable as Rahim at the 3 spot. You're drunk if you think Rose can play small forward better than Shareef.

You're not going to get 'Reef with just Carter, expect more players to be shipped from Toronto.

Use Carter in a trade for a guy like Artest, Allen or Peja. If that's not available then trade him for an expiring contract and some good young players/quality draft picks.

Artest has just as much attitude as Carter, without the large fan appeal.

Ray Allen, the best shooter and one of the best SG in the league for Vince? You are drunk.

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Wow...first off I never said VC for anyone straight up. Obviously, and I'm assuming you know this, the Raps and whoever they trade with need to match up salaries for any deal to go through as per the NBA's CBA rules. I don't know everyone's salary but I'm pretty sure Rahim is making less then Carter by enough to veto anything there.

VC is worth more then Rahim. Period. Carter is a top 10 scorer in this league with decent assists and rebounds for a guy who plays SG/SF. Don't even bother giving me his numbers for this year either...only 8 games in. Rahim also basically came out and said that he wants to be a PF and not play SF...he's changed his tune recently but he prefers PF. There is NO WAY the Raps play Rahim at PF ahead of Bosh. They already have Marshall, Mo Pete, Murray and Rose who can get SF minutes. Since Bosh and Marshall will get most of the PF minutes currently, with Bosh getting 30-35 a night where exactly do you think Rahim fits in? Considering that Marshall, Mo Pete and Murray WILL get their minutes and much of it at SF Rahim is limited there as well. Rahim is really not much more valuable then Marshall right now...Don't get me wrong here, I like Rahim. I just don't think he's a fit on this team considering the players on the Raps already.

As for Artest...sure he's got attitude problems and Carter is worth more, BUT he's a better fit on the Raps. He's one of the top defenders in the league and brings a solid offense but doesn't need the O to run through him like Carter. Indy would need to add something to the deal to make it work from both a salary and a value standpoint.

I realise Peja is a great player but he WANTS traded. Again, I never said VC for Peja straight up...but considering they both want dealt that cancels any "de-valuing" that may occur. From a talent standpoint they aren't far apart at all...and VC would put more butts in the seats then Peja too.

As for Allen...there was a rumoured Allen for Carter deal in the off-season. They put up similar points, rebounds and assists every year...with Carter having put up better points averages even. The numbers point to them being at WORST equal in value. They have also looked into dealing Allen because he's FA at year end and has publicly stated he wants a max contract which they won't offer...so he's likely going to get dealt.

I'd love to see you come out and show me numbers that make any of these guys better or more valuable then VC. I can point to career numbers and history that makes VC more valuable, or at worst equal, then all of them. All of them have "issues" that balance that side of any deals out too.

[Edited on 2004/11/17 by Zowpeb]

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I'd love to see you come out and show me numbers that make any of these guys better or more valuable then VC.  I can point to career numbers and history that makes VC more valuable, or at worst equal, then all of them.

Vince Carter is injury prone and misses a lot of games - that devalues him. It's obvious you don't watch the NBA since you didn't mention this.

The Kings have enough injury problems, but hey, if they want more, they should get Carter.

'Reef is a much more valuable player than Carter. Carter during the past 2 years has played 43 and 73 games, while Rahim has played 85 and 81. Shareef also grabs more rebounds and has a higher FG% than cry-baby Carter. Futhermore, despite Allen's injuries last year, he still played more than Carter. And he averaged more PPG the past 2 seasons (not including this one, where Allen has significantly more). During last season, Allen also had a higher FG% than Carter. Even as a pure SG, Allen grabs more rebounds than Vince. Ray Allen is also clutch. Carter has only proven a number of times that he cannot win big games , his numerous 1st round elimination and that classic series where LJ schooled him are perfect examples.

You seem, those stats? The stats that show Shareef as the better all-around, healthier player? The stats that show Allen averaging more PPG and RPG? Those stats?

Edit

You talked about the pool like you know basketball but tell me where Rahim fits in if we have Bosh and Marshall at PF?

Here's more evidence that you're wrong. From ESPN:

3. Portland. For Shareef. This one makes the most sense: the Raps get another big body and some cap room next summer; Portland has the pockets to take a chance on Vince. Plus, Nike's right there. And on paper, a lineup with Stoudamire/Van Exel, Carter/Anderson, Patterson/Miles, Randolph and Ratliff looks pretty intriguing, on a number of levels ... including the "Wow, I've never seen two teammates fight to the death before"

Maybe Vince can go play for the Bobcats so he can do some post-graduate work.

The compelling story was Vince Carter, benched for the final 15 minutes of the Portland game last Saturday ... and now we know why. He's a mess. During the pregame "Everyone bunch into a circle and jump up and down" ritual, Chris Bosh accidentally bumped him in the head, so Vince dramatically took three steps back to make sure he was OK, then rejoined the circle with a sarcastic frown. He made his first five jumpers, banged his shooting hand on a collision with Maggette, then spent the rest of the game touching the hand, examining it and swearing to himself ... only he would not-so-coincidentally forget to do this every time he made a basket. When he was angry after not getting the ball before one timeout, he stormed towards the bench, then brushed off a high-five from Donyell Marshall and left poor Donyell hanging.

It went on and on. Forget about the fact that Vince doesn't play defense anymore; that he doesn't bother to box out; that he's shooting pretty much every time he gets the ball (23 shots in 26 minutes against the Clips); that he tries to avoid contact even on plays when he's driving to the basket. - Bill Simmons

Like I said, you have no clue about anything basketball, so stop pretending like you do. Not only is this more evidence proving how wrong you are, but more proof on how I would have easily won that basketball pool.

[Edited on 2004/11/18 by Ribeiro]

[Edited on 2004/11/18 by Ribeiro]

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Originally posted by Ribeiro

Vince Carter is injury prone and misses a lot of games - that devalues him.  It's obvious you don't watch the NBA since you didn't mention this.

Whatever...Carter's injury issues are not because he's "injury prone" in the sense that they were soft injuries. We're not talking paper cuts and excuses, we're talking legit injuries. I define injury prone as guys who miss time due to minor bumps and bruises. If anything VC was guilty of coming back from injuries too early.

'Reef is a much more valuable player than Carter.  Carter during the past 2 years has played 43 and 73 games, while Rahim has played 85 and 81.  Shareef also grabs more rebounds and has a higher FG% than cry-baby Carter.  .

I think this is hilarious and exactly why I don't think you really understand the game. Reef has primarily played PF over his career and plays in the post more often then VC. Therefore he has a higher FG%. Rahim is a 2nd and 3rd option in his offense so he's not keyed on by opposing defences, he's going to be able to be more selective in his shots because he takes less. The offense doesn't run through him. We are talking about the same guy who has never averaged over 21.2PPG and in the last two years has averaged 19.9 and 16.3 PPG right? Wow...that must be better then Carter. You can talk FG% all you want but it's clear that his minutes at PF jack that up relative to a SG/SF. While Rahim usually floats his FG% around .475, Carter, when healthy is around .465...as I said, considering the differences between a PF and SG/SF that's actually pretty close. Kobe Bryant has a FG% that usually hovers around .460...is Rahim better then him too? LMAO.

Futhermore, despite Allen's injuries last year, he still played more than Carter.  And he averaged more PPG the past 2 seasons (not including this one, where Allen has significantly more).  During last season, Allen also had a higher FG% than Carter.  Even as a pure SG, Allen grabs more rebounds than Vince.  Ray Allen is also clutch.  Carter has only proven a number of times that he cannot win big games , his numerous 1st round elimination and that classic series where LJ schooled him are perfect examples.

Ray Allen 6'5" 205lbs 28yrs

01-02 21.8PPG 4.5RBG 3.9APG

02-03 22.5PPG 5.0RBG 4.4APG

03-04 23.0PPG 5.1RBG 4.8APG

Vince Carter 6'6" 225lbs 27yrs

01-02 24.7PPG 5.2RBG 4.0APG

02-03 20.6PPG 4.4RBG 3.3APG

03-04 22.5PPG 4.8RBG 4.8APG

And VC has averaged over 25PPG twice...which Allen has never done, with last year being Allen's career high. Considering Carter, at 27, is actually younger I'd say that says something. You compared only the last 2 years, of which, as you noted, Carter was injured much of the time. Which conviniently skews the stats in your favour. When Carter is healthy he's a better player then Allen...without a doubt. He's bigger, younger, has had more success, put up similar numbers to Allen in injury plagued years, and can also play SF whereas Allen doesn't have the size to play there effectively.

As for VC not being clutch...he carried the Raps to the 7th game against AI and was quite "clutch". He's won numerous games late in the 4th quarter and has put up good playoff numbers. Unfortunately they haven't surrounded him with much talent in the meantime. There are very few players in the NBA that I would want to have the ball in a close game in the final minutes besides Carter.

I'm not even a huge Carter fan...lol. But I'll give him his credit where it's due. The guys got huge talent.

You seem, those stats?  The stats that show Shareef as the better all-around, healthier player?  The stats that show Allen averaging more PPG and RPG?  Those stats?

I see that I just owned you.

Here's more evidence that you're wrong.  From ESPN:

Seriously, did you just use the "Sportsguy" to back up your comments????? I don't even know if that's worth responding to...in fact, I know it's not. Next time use someone who is actually an analyst.

Like I said, you have no clue about anything basketball, so stop pretending like you do.  Not only is this more evidence proving how wrong you are, but more proof on how I would have easily won that basketball pool..

Ah I see what this is all about...you need to tell yourself that you would've won the pool if you'd bothered to play. If this line of thinking is what you need to sleep at night you can tell yourself whatever you want. I'll stop posting responses so I don't wreck your ego.

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Seriously, did you just use the "Sportsguy" to back up your comments?????  I don't even know if that's worth responding to...in fact, I know it's not.  Next time use someone who is actually an analyst.

He is an analyst you moron. That's the dumbest statement here and shows that you were offended and surprised that ESPN had a whole article completely contradicting you while supporting exactly what I said.

You compared only the last 2 years

The last 2 seasons? That would be a pretty accurate comparison, as opposed to you, who went back as many seasons as neccesary until Carter's stats appeared higher than Allen's. I went back 2 seasons, you went back as many as needed to sway the facts to your incorrect statements.

ESPN just completely contradicted Zowpeb's whole argument.

You're an idiot, ESPN proved it, I proved it. That's the end for you. Don't make moronic comments. I'll always make you look like a dumbass for it.

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Until you see that you are wrong and give up, just like every argument.

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Hmmm...ya know Ribeiro...I truly believe you are probably the dumbest poster I've seen on this site. I never once insulted you but you feel the need to insult me...the sign of someone who has LOST a debate. Are you 12?

Look, we can agree to disagree.

The sportsguy is comic relief on ESPN...he is not an analyst. Ford, Ramsay, etc...those guys are the analysts. Did you read the entire article? It was not in fact entirely about the Raps...you do realise that right? You can pull little exerpts all you want from satirical articles written by the guy who simply writes their comic relief "page 2" stuff...he doesn't even stick to one sport for his articles. He's all over because his articles are humour based. 'Nuff said.

Hmmm...I compared 3 years of stats. Reason being is that the last 2 years VC was suffering some solid injuries. Guess what, most analysts and publications will compare 3 years of stats...who in the world compares 2 years worth of stats??? Only the guy trying to skew the numbers in his favour...namely YOU.

You can post in bold all you want...doesn't make your statement right...lol.

You can look at me in whatever light you choose. I don't much care. I KNOW I proved you wrong...and you can't do a thing about it so you call me names. That's okay, I don't think much of you either...I've never seen one even decent post from you actually...lol

The fact that you didn't even try to speak against any of the points I made simply showed I OWNED YOU.

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Chicago Bulls? I had some cool mercandise when I went to the fourth grade.

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<i>It's obvious you don't watch the NBA since you didn't mention this.</i>

As opposed to you, who was all over the fact that Alonzo Mourning had come back from his kidney ailment and called Gary Payton one of the NBAs top 5 PGs.

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