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dlbalr

NBA-VC Trade Rumour

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Those that really know me know that I usually don't get into trade rumours much, but this one really caught my eye. Reports have Vince Carter (TOR) heading to Portland in a 7 player deal. Here's how it shakes out:

To Toronto: Shareef Abdur-Rahim (SF/PF), Derek Anderson (SG), Vladimir Stepania ©

To Portland: Vince Carter (SG/SF), Jalen Rose (SG/SF), Milt Palacio (PG), Roger Mason Jr. (PG)

It's easy to see that Portland wins the deal, but it would appear that the Raps are looking for the future. Abdur-Rahim's deal expires after this season, so Toronto would get some cap flexibility for next season (which may be cancelled due to no CBA).

Toronto's lineup would look like this: PG-Alston, SG-Anderson, SF-Abdur-Rahim, PF-Bosh, C-Woods.

The only reason I really bring this up, is because there's some extra NBA talk on here, and some people are actually proving to be fans. Remember this is just a rumour (a more publicized one than others), so nothing is carved in stone. In fact, I'd expect to see Carter, Rose, and Palacio in tomorrow night vs the Sonics. What are your thoughts?

PS: Anyone else find it interesting that yesterday's debate on here was about Abdur-Rahim and Carter, and now they could be traded for each other?

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I think that was why they were being compared, because of the rumor.

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The rumour just broke today actually, in fact, just after noon ET it appears. Here was the quote that sparked the whole debate in that thread:

The game against Portland showed that Toronto can play well without Carter.  

He'll be swapped by Christmas. Hopefully for Abdur-Rahim.  

How right he may be...

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Well, as long as it boosts Carter's stats, that'll help my NBA fantasy team ;)

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I really hope this doesnt happen. Not from a Raptors perspective, but because i dont want Ribeiro to be right.

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If this deal was to go through it has less to do with player value comparisons and more to do with $$$. Rose has a ridiculous contract that lasts for a couple more years as does Carters. Both Rahim, and Anderson/Van Exel have expiring contracts. The Raps would clear out about 26 million in salary cap room for next year!! With Marshall also an FA at year end the Raps could potentially have in the neighbourhood of 31 million in spending money for next year. Thats HUGE...considering they're already a deep team that and really only would need to add 2-3 players that's basically saying they could add 2-3 10 million type players. And Ray Allen is an FA this season(though he's looking for a max deal...).

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Originally posted by dlbalr

Those that really know me know that I usually don't get into trade rumours much, but this one really caught my eye.  Reports have Vince Carter (TOR) heading to Portland in a 7 player deal.  Here's how it shakes out:

To Toronto: Shareef Abdur-Rahim (SF/PF), Derek Anderson (SG), Vladimir Stepania ©

To Portland: Vince Carter (SG/SF), Jalen Rose (SG/SF), Milt Palacio (PG), Roger Mason Jr. (PG)

It's easy to see that Portland wins the deal, but it would appear that the Raps are looking for the future.  Abdur-Rahim's deal expires after this season, so Toronto would get some cap flexibility for next season (which may be cancelled due to no CBA).

Toronto's lineup would look like this: PG-Alston, SG-Anderson, SF-Abdur-Rahim, PF-Bosh, C-Woods.

The only reason I really bring this up, is because there's some extra NBA talk on here, and some people are actually proving to be fans.  Remember this is just a rumour (a more publicized one than others), so nothing is carved in stone.  In fact, I'd expect to see Carter, Rose, and Palacio in tomorrow night vs the Sonics.  What are your thoughts?

PS: Anyone else find it interesting that yesterday's debate on here was about Abdur-Rahim and Carter, and now they could be traded for each other?

How right he may be...

Was there any doubt? I had the correct information from the beginning. It was pretty clear Zowpeb was talking out of his ass and when proved wrong, didn't have the integrity to admit it. It was even more pathetic how members simply agreed with him to disagree with me (Fanpuck33, Quebecois). At least it's comforting to know that there are still a few decent members here that can admit when someone's right.

Like I said, don't make up facts - I'll prove you wrong every time.

[Edited on 2004/11/19 by Ribeiro]

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It's easy to see that Portland wins the deal, but it would appear that the Raps are looking for the future.  Abdur-Rahim's deal expires after this season, so Toronto would get some cap flexibility for next season (which may be cancelled due to no CBA).

If anything, Toronto wins the deal. They get the oppurtunity to dump a risky, injury prone and egotistic Vince Carter and Jalen Rose's heavy contract (which he earned after 1 spectacular season) for an above average SG and a consistent forward and former All-star like Shareef, who has been cursed with losing teams throughout the years (he managed to reach 5000 points as the 2nd youngest player to ever achieve this).

Toronto needs 'Reef's big body. Portland is taking a chance on Carter. He either stays healthy and wants to play or carries himself like an unclutch cry-baby (past 2 seasons, New York series).

Portland has the pockets to take a chance on Vince.

Here's some more commentary from Bill Simmons (ESPN Columnist):

Chicago.It's a big risk. But the Bulls already stink. It's not like things could get worse
Detroit. Not the Pistons ... I'm talking about the Shock. Now there's a team that would be perfect for Vince Carter

As you can clearly see, Vince Carter is a liability. Raptors fans have put him on a pedestool he never deserved to be on. If he didn't have the ability to breeze the "Slam a da month" on Slam magazine every once and a while, he wouldn't be near as popular as he is now.

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Originally posted by Ribeiro

If anything, Toronto wins the deal.  They get the oppurtunity to dump a risky, injury prone and egotistic Vince Carter and Jalen Rose's heavy contract (which he earned after 1 spectacular season) for an above average SG and a consistent forward and former All-star like Shareef, who has been cursed with losing teams throughout the years (he managed to reach 5000 points as the 2nd youngest player to ever achieve this).  

Toronto needs 'Reef's big body.  Portland is taking a chance on Carter.  He either stays healthy and wants to play or carries himself like an unclutch cry-baby  (past 2 seasons, New York series).

I'll give you that, the Raps potentially benefit in the long run by dumping the contracts, and the egos, although Anderson has 2 years and $18 M left on his deal. And Abdur-Rahim does add a much needed rebounding presence and strong post-up opportunities, while Stepania is a pretty good rebounder. I was speaking more in terms of PPG, the Raps lose by around 8-10 per game, which would put them around what they were at last year, and being a Raptors fan, AAAAAH! :)

The word being bandied about here is that the Raps aren't really looking to keep 'Reef, but they want to move him for either a true SF (less post up skills, but more consistent from the outside), or a better C than Woods, who is beginning to struggle.

As it stands, nothing yet though...

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Ribeiro...give it up...the other thread was a comparison of Rahim vs. Carter's talent. I figured you'd come on and spout some sort of rhetoric about how you were right and everyone else was wrong...just like most of your adolescent comments.

I have yet to read or listen to ANY analyst come out and say that the Raps win this proposal on talent alone...I'll agree that the Raps win on cap/payroll flexibility. That alone swings the deal in their favour...but from a player talent standpoint the Raps lose.

In terms of talent:

Carter > Rahim - there's really no doubt...

Rose > Anderson/Van Exel - again, no doubt...

I'm not saying either Rahim or Anderson are bad players...they're just not as talented as Carter and Rose. I was also surprised at how much Rahim has been paid in his last contract...he might be one of the most overpaid players in the league for his contributions.

But hey, if the Raps can clear out potentially 26 million in payroll (if Van Exel is included...) then I'm all for it. I'd rather see them get the players to build around Bosh anyways.

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Zowpeb said:

Ribeiro...give it up...the other thread was a comparison of Rahim vs. Carter's talent.  I figured you'd come on and spout some sort of rhetoric about how you were right and everyone else was wrong
You talked about the pool like you know basketball but tell me where Rahim fits in if we have Bosh and Marshall at PF?  Don't tell me you'd stick him at the 3 permanently either...it's not his best position and we have Murray, Mo Pete and Rose that can all slide into that spot as well

No, the other thread was about how you claimed Reef wouldn't be traded to Toronto, "he didn't fit in." After which I linked you to an article claiming that, "'Reef to Portland makes the most sense." Then you started denying the facts like an imbecile in front of everyone.

Stop restating comments like a coward. It's disgusting. Everyone here with even half a brain can see you were wrong.

[Edited on 2004/11/20 by Ribeiro]

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More lies from Ribeiro. If you wanted us to think your trade idea was the first best, maybe you should have removed the 3 from in front of it, meaning this was the third most likely trade for VC, not the first.

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You can try and make it out that I'm lying all you want but obviously everyone who's read the posts see's you for what you are...lol.

I never once claimed Reef wouldn't be dealt to Toronto. My question to you was how he could fit in with the Raps...obviously if Rose is included in any deal it opens some minutes up since Mo Pete would get more SG time then SF time. My exact comments in regards to Rahim were that Carter is worth more...and he is. I defy you to find ONE analyst that thinks Rahim is worth Carter straight up in terms of talent alone. If you can't see that the deal is about salary cap room and the Raps dumping Rose's contract then your an even bigger idiot then you seem. I would only be able to assume you'd disagree for the sake of it.

I'm left wondering why you post on a message board when no one even likes your opinion or comments...lol.

I don't think I've ever read one post of any value from you...you skew facts to state your points which only invalidates them. You consistently take an adversarial role, likely for some perverse sense of humour that is the sign of an extreme lack of self confidence. Don't take your inadequacies out on us...

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More lies from Ribeiro. If you wanted us to think your trade idea was the first best, maybe you should have removed the 3 from in front of it, meaning this was the third most likely trade for VC, not the first.  

Wrong again. The author says nothing about the numbers relating to the likelihood of the trade. He however does say:

3. Portland. For Shareef. This one makes the most sense: the Raps get another big body and some cap room next summer; Portland has the pockets to take a chance on Vince. Plus, Nike's right there. And on paper, a lineup with Stoudamire/Van Exel, Carter/Anderson, Patterson/Miles, Randolph and Ratliff looks pretty intriguing, on a number of levels ... including the "Wow, I've never seen two teammates fight to the death before" level.

So, you've now proved that you are not just a dumbass but you have little reading comprehension too.

I'm left wondering why you post on a message board when no one even likes your opinion or comments...lol.

No, actually, there are quite a few people tired of your idiocy. You'll find out soon enough.

[Edited on 2004/11/20 by Ribeiro]

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Originally posted by Ribeiro

No, actually, there are quite a few people tired of your idiocy.  You'll find out soon enough.

No, people are getting sick of you.

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People are tired of me? LMAO...

Hmmm...I've been here since virtually the beginning. I know most of the guys who started this website and most of the mods through the pools(and other message boards) we've been involved in for a few years now. Hell, I was even asked to write a couple articles...though my time didn't permit it. I know where I stand with most of the posters around here...do you? LOL

Go back and read my original response to why I didn't think Rahim fit in with the Raps...you'll notice there was nothing derogatory. You were the one who went on to say that Rahim is worth as much or more then Carter...which set off the player comparison posts. Something you've never disproved on the way to showing you know nothing about the sport other then what you read through the media. YOU took the posts to the next level and seem to consistently post condescending remarks...I only assume it's because you're trying to boost your own ego. Whatever let's you sleep at night...

The only thing that makes the potential Portland deal worth considering is that they'd take Rose's bloated contract as well...which would also open up minutes for Rahim as well since Mo Pete would get more SG minutes(which coincidentally plays to my original comments about Rahim fitting in and getting minutes).

You hear/read only what you want and blot out the rest.

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