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The Chicoutimi Cucumber

Gainey's press conference - Habs stand pat

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I agree... he's not going to say that even if it is the truth. Reality is that Bob has consistantly proven that he is either unable to make the big trade for an impact player, or is unwilling to make sure a deal. Either way he has failed in this departmnet in his time with the Habs, no question.

I disagree. I could point to the Niwendyke/Iginla trade but instead I'll point out that he identified 3 weaknesses with the team last summer and got 3 players to fill those holes: Tanguay, Laraque and Lang. Now Laraque hasn't worked out that well (yet) but the others definitely filled the bill.

It is also clear that he did everything he could to aquire Hossa a year ago and also everything he could to get Sundin to sign.

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We need to keep in mind that Gainey got Kovalev for almost nothing. I think he looks for those kinds of deals and when the price goes up, he walks.

What I wish he would have done is sign some of these players to extensions if he really believes in them. I worry about us losing a ton of players this summer and with our inability to attract UFA talent, we might find ourselves with a much worse team next year.

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Disappointing to lose out on Jokinen. Are we going into next year with Plex as our #1? Haven't we just had years of Koivu not able to lead the team anywhere as our #1? And Koivu in his prime I'd rate much, much higher than the streaky Plex.

Whether it is Jokinen or not, seriously we need a #1 centre, or else it is 10 more years of 7th-10th in the East. And I feel less and less that the Bolts are bluffing, and that Vinny will retire in Florida. Absurd, how weak we are down the middle.

Also, it seems that Tanguay is a feather-touch away from being out for the year, this shoulder of his. When he went down, I had a sinking feeling he wouldn't come back this year. I've always been behind Bob, but standing pat with this team is baffling.

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Disappointing to lose out on Jokinen. Are we going into next year with Plex as our #1? Haven't we just had years of Koivu not able to lead the team anywhere as our #1? And Koivu in his prime I'd rate much, much higher than the streaky Plex.

Whether it is Jokinen or not, seriously we need a #1 centre, or else it is 10 more years of 7th-10th in the East. And I feel less and less that the Bolts are bluffing, and that Vinny will retire in Florida. Absurd, how weak we are down the middle.

Also, it seems that Tanguay is a feather-touch away from being out for the year, this shoulder of his. When he went down, I had a sinking feeling he wouldn't come back this year. I've always been behind Bob, but standing pat with this team is baffling.

:clap: ...agree, its frakin ridiculous. same shat different year... and still you'll have blind followers who say gainey can do no wrong.

:popcorn:

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In general I am very much pro-Bob. I even thought he made the right call on Samsonov (at the time).

But this 'performance' (vs. Blunts, 5-1 loss just ended) only highlights what kind of reciprocation you get back with this lot. You cannot have faith in this team, they have never shown any ability to achieve. Last year was obviously a massive exception.

I thought that if he didn't deal for a ctr, then a top-level d-man would come, Bouweesmeisensenter or Pronger, or someone else to shore things up. Even during our 4-game win streak, we were shelled with shots routinely every night. Then make a run at a ctr in the summer.

It is great to show confidence in your guys to get the job done. We'll see if Bob is right in a couple of weeks, but I've a very bad feeling about this.

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I wanted some glimpse into what this team will look like in 2009-10... and I'm left with nothing. Gainey set an expiry date on this team and it's this summer, but for crying out loud... he's left all the work for next year until June and beyond. I guess he just wants a vacation.

I'm glad he isn't Don Waddell bad, since those kinds of moves are the only type that could've been worse than standing pat like he did. Nothing could've turned this team into a contender instantly, but it's not like he couldn't have made moves that made our team better heading into the post-Kovalev/Koivu era.

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Good to see the troops rewarded BG with a loss for leaving the team as is. They played a really good 15 minutes then blahhhhhhhhh, once the Sabs scored.

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Just to be clear, it's not that I have a hard-on for Jokinen. The point is that he would address a longer-term dilemma that is extremely worrisome for this franchise: the lack of ANY quality top-6 centremen other than an aging Koivu. People who say we should hold out for better than Jokinen...hey, I admire your optimism. All I know is that we haven't had a top C since Koivu's knee was destroyed in 1996-97. That's 12 years of waiting. Godot showed up sooner.

Huge opportunity missed. And don't give me this cap stuff. Waivers, minors - that's the way to dump salary if you absolutely have to in order to solve a massive problem like that.

As for tonight's game, I think it was a big statement. And that statement is: sorry, Bob, but we suck.

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Just to be clear, it's not that I have a hard-on for Jokinen. The point is that he would address a longer-term dilemma that is extremely worrisome for this franchise: the lack of ANY quality top-6 centremen other than an aging Koivu. People who say we should hold out for better than Jokinen...hey, I admire your optimism. All I know is that we haven't had a top C since Koivu's knee was destroyed in 1996-97. That's 12 years of waiting. Godot showed up sooner.

Huge opportunity missed. And don't give me this cap stuff. Waivers, minors - that's the way to dump salary if you absolutely have to in order to solve a massive problem like that.

As for tonight's game, I think it was a big statement. And that statement is: sorry, Bob, but we suck.

Wow, that's harsh. But certainly you raise some points. BG didn't have much choice today. Right now, no GM wants anyone in the current lineup other than Komi, Pacriotti or maybe Plecs...

That being said, the habs have speed and talent -- just no size up the middle. So, I think BG was right calling them out and, at this point, crossing his fingers to see if this rag-tag crew can get some chemistry and pull it together for a run...

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Ultimately I dont have any problems with Bob standing pat.

The Habs have so many UFAs this summer that Bob hands were tied and that he couldnt really make any trades happen without destroying the team beyond this year. Jokenin was traded for 2 roster guys and a 1st rnd pick, and neither of the roster guys will be UFAs next year. So if Bob had made a move for Jokenin the Habs would have all their soon to be UFAs (14?) + 2 spots to be filled next year. :blink:

I dont know why people here are beleiving the analysts. Most of them blantantly dont follow the Habs or they wouldnt be saying Habs have 0 chance. Realistically when you actually use your brain and think aboot it the Habs are in 5th place and have had major injuries to key players all season. Had these players not been injured I would only assume they would be higher in the standings. Also a lot of Habs players that havent been injured arent playing up to their potential. When all the injured guys come back and the rest start playing to their potential they would be a lot higher in the standings. Unfortunately because the useless way NHL does the standings they could only get as high as 4th anyways and still be better teams than the 2nd & 3rd place teams.

Lately most of the underacheiving players have been starting to acheive. The majority of the Habs should be 20G scorers are starting to come on and actually score. i.e. Plex, Kovy, and Higgs will get close to 15, with the time he is out considered it would be closer to 20. Everybody seems to be getting back on pace and now is the right time to start getting hot.

How is this season completely wrote off exactly? :rolleyes:

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Gainey's press conference

But it's also plain Gainey believes his group no longer has any excuses to underperform.

"We've got a number of players who have been a little below their potential this year for different reasons, this is their time to prove me right … and for the coaches to take the players that they have and squeeze as much or more out of this team than we've seen to this point," he said.

It was an unusual shot across the coaching staff's bow from Gainey, who has a close relationship with head coach Guy Carbonneau and his assistants.

---------------------

That, to me, was the most interesting comment from Gainey's press conference.

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:clap: ...agree, its frakin ridiculous. same shat different year... and still you'll have blind followers who say gainey can do no wrong.

:popcorn:

Could be worse. Could be one of the same complainers that say Gainey sucks. I remember before Gainey got here the habs were just garbage with no talent and no playoffs.

Montreal has depth and a core of young players (whether they are good or not is another arguement) that must start producing. Chipchura was supposed to be the centre of the future but failed.

The off season free agents are going to be shocked how few teams have cap room. Gainey is betting the franchise by going UFA next year while promoting young players up from the farm. Sure we are all disappointed by the lack of vision by Gainey at trade deadline, however I find I would rather have him at the helm manning the boat than have a bunch of Whiners running the show.

This board has so many whiners, it just adds to the fact Habs fans are so hated world wide!

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Just to be clear, it's not that I have a hard-on for Jokinen. The point is that he would address a longer-term dilemma that is extremely worrisome for this franchise: the lack of ANY quality top-6 centremen other than an aging Koivu. People who say we should hold out for better than Jokinen...hey, I admire your optimism. All I know is that we haven't had a top C since Koivu's knee was destroyed in 1996-97. That's 12 years of waiting. Godot showed up sooner.

Huge opportunity missed. And don't give me this cap stuff. Waivers, minors - that's the way to dump salary if you absolutely have to in order to solve a massive problem like that.

As for tonight's game, I think it was a big statement. And that statement is: sorry, Bob, but we suck.

Hey, I'm totally with you, except I wouldn't limit our lack of quality up front to just centres. In virtually that same time frame all we've had on the wing was Kovalev in two seasons (05-06 and last year).

We need something to build around going forward. If we're going to have Plekanecs down the middle we better have Hossas/Kovalchuks flanking them.

We have 4 players that are too old/worn out to handle their current roles: Kovalev, Koivu, Hamrlik and Schneider. Schneider should ideally be in Brisebois' role 5 on 5. Kovalev should not be "the man" anymore. Saku needs a 3rd centre to help out... he was thriving early in the year when we had all our top 3 centres healthy. I'd prefer Koivu to be our checking centre at this point. And Hamrlik... I honestly don't know what to do with anymore. I think he needs a slick D partner. He's definitely overvalued.

Beyond that, I can only count Tanguay and potentially Kostitsyn has front line players. On D, Markov-Komi should be a good pair, but we need a good 2nd pair and we won't get one until we find quality puckmovers to compliment our group.

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It will make for an interesting offseason. With all the UFAs, Gainey is definitely going to have the oppurtunity to make some aggressive moves if he intends to reshape this team.

To be honest, the more I think about it, a Jokinen wouldn't have changed this team much. He can't carry a team and is a complementary piece. Not a bad thing, look at Tanguay who's only excelled in the same role (he struggled in Calgary when asked to do too much). So from that aspect, Gainey's inaction can be forgiven. But the clock is ticking and the team simply isn't an elite squad, and the onus is on Gainey to fix that.

Edited by smon

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Thinking a bit more about Olli, the more he kind of strikes me as a Kovalev type, actually, just one in the form of a big centreman. When we got Alex, he was turning 31 (Olli is 30), had a couple of 80-95 point seasons under his belt, and had the reputation of being a hard personality to fit into a team concept. Heck, both had a strong Keenan connection as well, although Iron Mike loves Olli and he never really reached that stage with Alex (leaving the Rags after the Cup win when Alex was a rookie).

It could've been the start of something special, but it just as easily could've been the start of another tumultous relationship full of severe ups and downs.

Moving forward, will Bob look to that kind of relationship again? I don't know. The alternative might be a low on high end talent, but easier to coach group, since we sure have a lot of trouble attracting talent to this team. That type of team could become a New Jersey type team, but it could also easily become the Edmonton Oilers or Minnesota Wild.

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Uguys R

Fargin

Awful................

Blow it up Bob; bring in a new core and go YOUNG..................... :puke:

Edited by kenadian

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Blow it up Bob; bring in a new core and go YOUNG.....................

Yeah, unless this team makes some sort of magical run and shows they do have some heart, then blow it up. Say goodbye to Koivu and Kovalev. To give the team some sort of veteran presence up front, bring back Tanguay if the price is good. Bring back Lang if he's cheap and can still skate. Bring back Kostopoulos for sure. On the backend, let everyone walk except for Komisarek. He's played like crap lately, but I think he's one of the keys to future success. Nobody in the system can be as good as Komisarek is when he's at the top of his game defensively and physically. Let Brisebois retire and let Bouillon and Dandenault walk. If Schneider is willing to stay around real cheap to be the 7th D-man, he'd be a good influence. I'd say resign him to play, but I wanna see some kids back there.

On the coaching staff, keep Carbo and Muller. Get rid of Mellanson and Jarvis. Mellanson has been good at developing young guys, but once they reach the NHL I haven't seen a lot of long-term growth with our goalies. As for Jarvis, replace him with a defensive coach who actually played defense and can teach using first hand knowledge. Our D needs that desparately.

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Gainey's press conference

But it's also plain Gainey believes his group no longer has any excuses to underperform.

"We've got a number of players who have been a little below their potential this year for different reasons, this is their time to prove me right … and for the coaches to take the players that they have and squeeze as much or more out of this team than we've seen to this point," he said.

It was an unusual shot across the coaching staff's bow from Gainey, who has a close relationship with head coach Guy Carbonneau and his assistants.

---------------------

That, to me, was the most interesting comment from Gainey's press conference.

He really said that about the coaching staff?

Effin brilliant. Best news all year from the Habs perspective. Gainey has held on long enough, and he's finally throwing down the gauntlet. Yer my close friend, a great person, and right now you're not doing enough with the team. Business first.

Effin brilliant! I wasn't going to listen. Now I'm excited to listen.

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lalalal.jpg

until the habs have a legitimate superstar the team isn't going anywhere.

i don't think they are even going to make the playoffs this year.. that'll be so embarrassing in their "100th year"

habs need a #1 centre... this has been known for yearssss.. yet it has not been taken care of.

gainey can try to sign ufa's and discuss trades but until it actually happens it means nothing.

habs leading scorer is markov, a defenseman.. the only other team with their leading scorer being a d-man is the islanders..lol.. and its streit.

i don't think expressing my opinion is whining.. its frustration... year after year of the habs not being able to entice the ufa's they really go after to want to play in montreal and not being able to put together a package to get the players they go after in a trade.

also, the whole coaching staff needs to be able to light a fire under the players.. i think they are complacent towards carbo now...time for a change.

In Montreal, the team did not make a deadline day deal, but they did acquire Matt Schneider last week, did they need to do more?

Pierre McGuire: They did need to do more, but that being said, this is all on Bob Gainey. He had a clearly defined organizational mantra and that was 'we like adding Schneider and we're going to be O.K. with what we have.'

The proof will be in the pudding. The only way we'll be able to judge the Montreal Canadiens is at the end of the year. If they win the Stanley Cup or get to the final, it's O.K.

Anything less than that is inexcusable, and they made a mistake by not making another move. :clap:

:popcorn:

Edited by newf

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Uguys R

Fargin

Awful................

Blow it up Bob; bring in a new core and go YOUNG..................... :puke:

If it get's blown up, Bob goes with it. What, another 5 year plan?? Where's the accountability?? Edited by Habsy

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Hey, I'm totally with you, except I wouldn't limit our lack of quality up front to just centres. In virtually that same time frame all we've had on the wing was Kovalev in two seasons (05-06 and last year).

We need something to build around going forward. If we're going to have Plekanecs down the middle we better have Hossas/Kovalchuks flanking them.

We have 4 players that are too old/worn out to handle their current roles: Kovalev, Koivu, Hamrlik and Schneider. Schneider should ideally be in Brisebois' role 5 on 5. Kovalev should not be "the man" anymore. Saku needs a 3rd centre to help out... he was thriving early in the year when we had all our top 3 centres healthy. I'd prefer Koivu to be our checking centre at this point. And Hamrlik... I honestly don't know what to do with anymore. I think he needs a slick D partner. He's definitely overvalued.

Beyond that, I can only count Tanguay and potentially Kostitsyn has front line players. On D, Markov-Komi should be a good pair, but we need a good 2nd pair and we won't get one until we find quality puckmovers to compliment our group.

Not to single you out, but I find the general tone of these comments depressing. Someone said negativity was a reason Habs fans are hated... hell, I'm starting to dislike most of you and I know nothing about any of you about except all of this #&**@ ranting and calling for Bob's head. At least wait for for a few games before you pass judgement on Bob's planning and ability. If we go far in the playoffs, most of you will be calling him a genius. If we go out in the first round you can flame me, BG and GC for all you are worth but this endless flip flopping is asinine.

Did no one else see the comment on TSN where opposition players were happy that Jokinen were traded to CLGY because he is " a cancer in the room"? Does no one else wonder why Bob had " no interest" ?

And... the general usual opinion expressed on this board is that McGuire, Dreger, et al are useless... in fact, I am one of the few that think PMcGuire usually has some idea what he is talking about--- now many of you seem to agree with him and them unreservedley.

@**&!)@@@@!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! make up your minds! A great many of you sound like Leaf trolls in disguise :puke:

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lalalal.jpg

In Montreal, the team did not make a deadline day deal, but they did acquire Matt Schneider last week, did they need to do more?

Pierre McGuire: They did need to do more, but that being said, this is all on Bob Gainey. He had a clearly defined organizational mantra and that was 'we like adding Schneider and we're going to be O.K. with what we have.'

The proof will be in the pudding. The only way we'll be able to judge the Montreal Canadiens is at the end of the year. If they win the Stanley Cup or get to the final, it's O.K.

Anything less than that is inexcusable, and they made a mistake by not making another move. :clap:

:popcorn:

I like Macguire, and I've insisted that we should have made a push for Jokinen, so in a sense I agree with him. But my argument for Jokinen has less to do with this season than with the longer-term void at C. Macguire is speaking solely of a run in 2009. In this sense I disagree with him. Gainey has made tons of additions to improve a team that finished 1st in the East last season. In the process he has already weakened our draft position in the future. Further major moves would likely have eroded our future even more - and given that this team's problems seem to be 90% mental, and also coaching-related, I'm not sure adding a big piece (except perhaps a big C) would have made any fundamental difference this season.

Macguire's argument is contradictory in a way. On the one hand, he obviously thinks we should be considered contenders, based on talent; otherwise he wouldn't be declaring the season a failure if we don't get to the Finals. This means that Gainey has assembled a team that, on paper, should win. And yet it will be 'all on Gainey' if this excellent assemblage of talent he put together doesn't win.

It's not quite a contradiction, if you see the basic problem as coaching. Gainey is responsible for hiring and firing the coach, so if the coach fails to get the most out of the players, Gainey has to wear it. But granting this, it still makes no sense to attack Gainey for not making trades at the deadline. An extra player or two will not fix a poisonous team culture or a crappy coaching system.

I dunno. I keep hearing people attacking Gainey. I find it bizarre. Stepping back from the deadline and looking at the big picture, Bob addressed every obvious weakness the 2008 team had. Fixing the 2009 team is a much more vexing problem because of the catastrophic gap between talent and performance, and I'm not sure hasty dealing at the deadline is the right way to approach it.

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Not to single you out, but I find the general tone of these comments depressing. Someone said negativity was a reason Habs fans are hated... hell, I'm starting to dislike most of you and I know nothing about any of you about except all of this #&**@ ranting and calling for Bob's head. At least wait for for a few games before you pass judgement on Bob's planning and ability. If we go far in the playoffs, most of you will be calling him a genius. If we go out in the first round you can flame me, BG and GC for all you are worth but this endless flip flopping is asinine.

Did no one else see the comment on TSN where opposition players were happy that Jokinen were traded to CLGY because he is " a cancer in the room"? Does no one else wonder why Bob had " no interest" ?

And... the general usual opinion expressed on this board is that McGuire, Dreger, et al are useless... in fact, I am one of the few that think PMcGuire usually has some idea what he is talking about--- now many of you seem to agree with him and them unreservedley.

@**&!)@@@@!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! make up your minds! A great many of you sound like Leaf trolls in disguise :puke:

Fair enough. The more I've heard about Jokinen, the more he sounds like Kovalev did when we got him back in '04, actually.

I was shooting for a more long term view, BTW. Something needs to happen beyond this spring, regardless of how far this team goes.

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