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Carbo fired

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I heard the entire 60 second clip, and Koivu goes on for 60 seconds saying that everyone has weaknesses and that for some it's communication.

MItch melnick played the clip on the Team 990 Tuesday during the afternoon drive-home show. He played the clip for Pierre mcGuire, and McGuire said he was truly disappointed by "that player" (meaning Koivu)! For pierre mcGuire to say that he was disappointed in Koivu for saying these things shows that we are not wrong to believe that koivu was one of the players who had Carbo fired!

I realize many of you don't like McGuire, but it doesn't change the fact that he knows hockey and he knows what goes on a team. For him to come out after hearing that clip and saying that the players are at fault and that the pressure is now on them to perform says alot!

Then maybe Gainey should have taken the "C" from Koivu, and traded him, or at least told the owners that it's not Carbo's fault, Koivu had to be dealt with, but that is not the case.

Gainey fired Carbo because that is what he felt needed to happen. I don't find anything wrong with what Saku said, or what Steve Bégin. Frankly numerous players have been whispering it for quite some time now. Why is everyone so surprised. Obvously, Carbo had communication issues, not a good trait for a coach.

What does Mcguire have to do with this? He says a lot of dumb stuff, that's his job, it doesn't mean it's the truth.

This goes without saying. I can't stand Saku, but a cup is a cup and I'd be happy no matter who the captain was if it means the Habs finally win it again. Osama Bin Laden could be the captain of the Canadiens and it wouldn't stop me from enjoying a cup win!

Comments like these belong on Hfboards.com. :puke:

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After a week's vacation in Vegas, i come back and GC was fired? That was weird. Even though the team has stunk it up since the all star break i must admit i didn't see it coming.

I would have rather rid the team of some garbage players first, then see what happens but i'm not the GM. My only problem with this is how many coaches do you need to run through before you realize the core and several players are a big part of the problem.

Anyon ethink Lever is the guy next year? Nice article on Lever, was he a D coach or a forwards coach?

I was hoping Hartley, but he is a hard a## also, so maybe the players would cry or not work hard because there feelings were hurt.

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Stephen Brunt in The Globe and Mail is adamant that the firing was 100% Gainey's decision, that Boivin and Gillett had nothing to do with it.

I trust Brunt, and hearing that is somewhat of a relief.

As for Macguire, let's remember that he is in high dudgeon about the injustice of the Carbo firing. He's so emotional about it that his arguments don't even make sense. I don't say that excuses Koivu - certainly his comments could have been more gracious - but I don't think Koivu's comments were *that* bad, and Macguire's overheated response shouldn't be taken too seriously either.

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Koivu was just being honest.

And will he be re-signed? I think so. We'll see. But Koivu haters always crawl out of the woodwork when he plays badly and crawl away when he plays well.

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Stephen Brunt in The Globe and Mail is adamant that the firing was 100% Gainey's decision, that Boivin and Gillett had nothing to do with it.

I trust Brunt, and hearing that is somewhat of a relief.

As for Macguire, let's remember that he is in high dudgeon about the injustice of the Carbo firing. He's so emotional about it that his arguments don't even make sense. I don't say that excuses Koivu - certainly his comments could have been more gracious - but I don't think Koivu's comments were *that* bad, and Macguire's overheated response shouldn't be taken too seriously either.

Yesterday TK played about 5 or 6 minutes less than he normally plays. Those minutes were played by the Koivu line. I know that TK and Laps have been the hardest workers on the team all year, but at some point you have to go with the guys who can score. You have to play your best players. Gainey did that. Carbo did not. Everyone is blaming Koivu for the team crapping out in Edmonton after the bowling game. I was there. BGL and TK in 90% of the power plays? Grinders on the top line? Gorges playing forward? Not to mention that Hammer and Komi played their worst game of the season. Why couldn't Carbo see that Komi and Markov bailed each other out? I saw Komi make those mistakes last year, but Markov bailed him out. He never put Schnieder with Hammer for more than a few minutes. I agree that Koivu may not be a great captain. I think he needs to be a co captain. And just so everyone knows, I wouldn't be bothered if he wasn't re signed. I just think he is in a role more like Breeze was. A little higher than his abilities at his stage in his career. but this whole tangent of yelling at Koivu (who, btw has 7 or 8 points in his last 7 games) and blaming him for Carbo's experiments is a little silly. Carbo made crazy decisions often, and they didn't work.

Gainey thinks this team is better than they are playing. I don't know if that is true or not anymore, but something had to change. Either that or rebuild again.

I wish Carbo luck. I think his firing was premature. His record is great, but he didn't seem to have the tools to get the team out of a whole. (Flyers and this year) The players should know how to do this, but knowing the other team's system and guiding players to adjust is the coach's job.

It is too common to link ideas and rumour and state them as fact. Koivu whines to management. Is that a fact? How do we know this? Did we read it in a blog?

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The rebuilding is already happening. That is the reason for so many UFA's. BG wanted to know where his veterans stand and if they can go deep in the playoffs. Only time will tell on this years team but i don't see them going past the first round or even making the playoffs. I think Buffalo may be out, the teams playing poorly after that are the habs and rangers. (I'm talking long term) recently have won 5 of 8 or something.

As for Carbo's crazy decisions: He had the best single season in the last 20 years, this years team was also over 500 and in the playoffs.

So GC has his faults, but he was also the coach who got the most out of this roster in many years. So everyone desrves a little blame for the firing.

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Koivu was just being honest.

And will he be re-signed? I think so. We'll see. But Koivu haters always crawl out of the woodwork when he plays badly and crawl away when he plays well.

The way he was used yesterday optimises his energy level and I have no problem having him (or Robert Lang... but since Koivu has been here forever, he has priority) for another 2-3 years at a 3-3.5M contract.

Granted though that we have a better #1 center than him or Pleks...

IF keeping him means we can't have a better #1, then, #### it. :P

If the rumours are true, both Arnott (some years ago) and Brière didn't come here because they wanted to be guaranteed the 1st line C... well the heck with Koivu then, I prefer those guys over him (offensively, not as active figure in the community or as chairmen of the koivu foundation)

In other words :

-If having Koivu means good veteran depth at center => :clap:

-If having Koivu means we're still stuck with no TRUE LEGITIMATE #1 center => :puke:

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The way he was used yesterday optimises his energy level and I have no problem having him (or Robert Lang... but since Koivu has been here forever, he has priority) for In other words :

-If having Koivu means good veteran depth at centre => :clap:

-If having Koivu means we're still stuck with no TRUE LEGITIMATE #1 centre => :puke:

That's exactly the way I see it too. I also think that co-capaincy needs to be considered.

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As for Carbo's crazy decisions: He had the best single season in the last 20 years, this years team was also over 500 and in the playoffs.

So GC has his faults, but he was also the coach who got the most out of this roster in many years. So everyone desrves a little blame for the firing.

The only problem is that when the team was playing well, he never made those crazy decisions. He only did it when they were in trouble, and it never worked. It seems like instead of making system or tactical adjustments, he would throw grinders out there.

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That's exactly the way I see it too. I also think that co-capaincy needs to be considered.

That's what I think is funny. From all the things posters complain about, coach, lines captaincy etc.... a lot come true. We hear Gainey mention it, a trade is made, a player is benched or demoted etc.... The captaincy never ever comes up.

Don't you think Gainey would have somehow addressed this by now? Well he hasn't. NO player has ever made a comment about it even after being traded, not even Ribero. This whole leadership from Koivu issue doesn't even exist. I thnk the problem is that you all seem to think Captain = production or 6ft 4 and 220 lbs.

None of you know what he brings to the table off the ice and neither do I, but I do know that NO coach, NO GM,NO former player and NO owner of the Habs for the past 10-12 years has ever even whispered it. What makes any posters on this board know more? They don't, this is so stupid.

As far as co-captaincy goes? It exists already. It doesn't need to be said. Souray was a co-captain, Rivet was a co-captain, Kovalev is a co-captain, we need a big centre that scores goals NOT a Leader or co captain. Geez!!!! Quit confusing it all onto Koivu's shoulders.

The tale will be told when Carbo decides to speak, and I can't wait because he'll say nothing about it either. Which he already did during the Kovalev saga. " I hope Kovalev doesn't need the C to play better, because I'm NOT taking it off Saku"

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I thought (and maybe hoped) that Carbo would be coaching a rebuilding team next season. A team without Kovalev, Koivu and some other old mid-caliber 1st-2nd liner players. If Koivu wants more than 4M / year this summer then let him go. Same with Kovalev. Id focus most on resigning Komisarek even after his bad play the last months.

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On OTR tonight, a former player, a head scout, and lansberg all said that dumping Carbo was wrong and that Gainey just sent the message to these guys that they can do whatever they want and the coach will pay the price. Even Peter Z. who played for Gainey said that Gainey is too soft to be a coach. They were also convinced that the main culprit was Kovy.

I am sure they are happy now as Gainey is a great guy, but he doesn't last long in these situations. If there is any bunch of players that will eventually screw Gainey for his kindness, it is this group. This is a desperation move due to the 100th anniversery and over hyped expectations of the team, imo.

What is done is done, but I still hope that Gainey fixes this locker room in the offseason so that the next coach doesn't have to put with this crap.

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Some of my thoughts on the Carbo firing:

Definitely surprised by the firing.

Have to believe that Carbo's lack of good communication skills were a huge part in the firing. If a coach has trouble talking with his players, it may be tough for them to understand their roles. When guys are sat out, they should know why.

One of GC biggest problems was his delegation of icetime. Too much of Koivu, Kovalev killing penalties. Their enery should be preserved for 5on5 and PP time. Times when Kostopoulus would play more than Akostitsyn. Just ridiculous in my mind. Especially when down a goal. TK is a warrior, but best suited for about 12-13 minutes a game.

Carbo liked his foot soldiers too much. They are valuable but i remember when the PP was struggling and he would use Laps and Kosto on the PP. Terrible.

Why Carbo would rarely use Dandy on the PP amazed me. He might be the fastest Habs forward and that should be a good part of this role.

Anyways, hopefully BG turns the ship around.

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Some of my thoughts on the Carbo firing:

Definitely surprised by the firing.

Have to believe that Carbo's lack of good communication skills were a huge part in the firing. If a coach has trouble talking with his players, it may be tough for them to understand their roles. When guys are sat out, they should know why.

One of GC biggest problems was his delegation of icetime. Too much of Koivu, Kovalev killing penalties. Their enery should be preserved for 5on5 and PP time. Times when Kostopoulus would play more than Akostitsyn. Just ridiculous in my mind. Especially when down a goal. TK is a warrior, but best suited for about 12-13 minutes a game.

Carbo liked his foot soldiers too much. They are valuable but i remember when the PP was struggling and he would use Laps and Kosto on the PP. Terrible.

Why Carbo would rarely use Dandy on the PP amazed me. He might be the fastest Habs forward and that should be a good part of this role.

Anyways, hopefully BG turns the ship around.

Well, he had to like his foot soldiers, thats all Gainey ever got him. :rolleyes:

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Worst decision Gainey's made so far. We had the best possible coach for the team, one that had been around for a couple of seasons. We brought him in for the very purpose of cultivating him and having some stability at this position. Now he's fired because his players quit on him. And the fact that his players quit on him is an argument against him? What kind of players quit because they don't like their coach? Losers.

Stephen Brunt in The Globe and Mail is adamant that the firing was 100% Gainey's decision, that Boivin and Gillett had nothing to do with it.

I trust Brunt, and hearing that is somewhat of a relief.

As for Macguire, let's remember that he is in high dudgeon about the injustice of the Carbo firing. He's so emotional about it that his arguments don't even make sense. I don't say that excuses Koivu - certainly his comments could have been more gracious - but I don't think Koivu's comments were *that* bad, and Macguire's overheated response shouldn't be taken too seriously either.

Gainey said in his press conference something like "I don't think anyone who's watched the team over the past 8 weeks could not have at least considered this." He added that he brought it up to the owners a few days ago and they let him do it. Of course, he could have been lying but it seems like this was totaly his call.

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That's what I think is funny. From all the things posters complain about, coach, lines captaincy etc.... a lot come true. We hear Gainey mention it, a trade is made, a player is benched or demoted etc.... The captaincy never ever comes up.

Don't you think Gainey would have somehow addressed this by now? Well he hasn't. NO player has ever made a comment about it even after being traded, not even Ribero. This whole leadership from Koivu issue doesn't even exist. I thnk the problem is that you all seem to think Captain = production or 6ft 4 and 220 lbs.

None of you know what he brings to the table off the ice and neither do I, but I do know that NO coach, NO GM,NO former player and NO owner of the Habs for the past 10-12 years has ever even whispered it. What makes any posters on this board know more? They don't, this is so stupid.

As far as co-captaincy goes? It exists already. It doesn't need to be said. Souray was a co-captain, Rivet was a co-captain, Kovalev is a co-captain, we need a big centre that scores goals NOT a Leader or co captain. Geez!!!! Quit confusing it all onto Koivu's shoulders.

The tale will be told when Carbo decides to speak, and I can't wait because he'll say nothing about it either. Which he already did during the Kovalev saga. " I hope Kovalev doesn't need the C to play better, because I'm NOT taking it off Saku"

i am in 100% agreement.

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Clearly the players couldn't stand Carbonneau and his methods/systems (and I can't blame them) and they became disillusioned and tuned him out. Therefore, if we want to win - and that IS the main goal here - he had to go. Simple as that. Whether he had the POTENTIAL someday of being a good coach or not... that's not the issue at hand.

You know, I have a lot of respect for Carbo as a former great habs player...but it could very well be possible that Carbonneau in person is just a completely arrogant arsehole and no one liked him.

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That's what I think is funny. From all the things posters complain about, coach, lines captaincy etc.... a lot come true. We hear Gainey mention it, a trade is made, a player is benched or demoted etc.... The captaincy never ever comes up.

Don't you think Gainey would have somehow addressed this by now? Well he hasn't. NO player has ever made a comment about it even after being traded, not even Ribero. This whole leadership from Koivu issue doesn't even exist. I thnk the problem is that you all seem to think Captain = production or 6ft 4 and 220 lbs.

None of you know what he brings to the table off the ice and neither do I, but I do know that NO coach, NO GM,NO former player and NO owner of the Habs for the past 10-12 years has ever even whispered it. What makes any posters on this board know more? They don't, this is so stupid.

As far as co-captaincy goes? It exists already. It doesn't need to be said. Souray was a co-captain, Rivet was a co-captain, Kovalev is a co-captain, we need a big centre that scores goals NOT a Leader or co captain. Geez!!!! Quit confusing it all onto Koivu's shoulders.

The tale will be told when Carbo decides to speak, and I can't wait because he'll say nothing about it either. Which he already did during the Kovalev saga. " I hope Kovalev doesn't need the C to play better, because I'm NOT taking it off Saku"

Post of the year !

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This team has gone steaadily downhill all season. And I do mean steadily. We had the 27th best record over Jan-Feb. We were the top team (or near it) 10 games into the season. We were 7th overall after November. We were worse in early March - only Halak kept our record respectable. Something was seriously wrong. Personnaly I don't think it was our personnel - they were good enough to win the division last year and started this year out great. However that doesn't reallly matter.

Given the slide we were in, we weren't even going to make the playoffs and still might not (I am confident we will under Gainey). Something had to be done. Carbo admitted that he was out of ideas. We could have tried some big moves at the deadline. I doubt that would have worked but maybe. The only viable option thing left was to fire Carbonneau. We may yet salvage a decent season. Maybe this is unfair to Carbonneau but Gainey had no other reasonable choices. Doing nothing would have meant a disgraceful fall into lousiness.

Some people blame the players and say they wanted Carbo fired. I don't subscribe to this view, but even if its true, that is a power the players hold. You may not like it but thre is no point in destroying the team to punish a few players. How long would it take to rebuild by dumping 5 or 6 important guys in a blood-letting and keeping Carbo? Too long. Get rid of them over the off season if we need to.

-----------

Regarding re-signing Koivu and/or Kovalev: Gainey will try to re-sign both and if he can they will both be back next season for smaller and shorter contracts. For those who want to see Kovalev gone, who do we replace him with? There are not many elite free agents available and no guarantee we can attract those that will be available. Similarly replacing Koivu isn't all that easy either although we could probably do it. Finding someone better than Koivu is harder.

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This team has gone steaadily downhill all season. And I do mean steadily. We had the 27th best record over Jan-Feb. We were the top team (or near it) 10 games into the season. We were 7th overall after November. We were worse in early March - only Halak kept our record respectable. Something was seriously wrong. Personnaly I don't think it was our personnel - they were good enough to win the division last year and started this year out great. However that doesn't reallly matter.

Given the slide we were in, we weren't even going to make the playoffs and still might not (I am confident we will under Gainey). Something had to be done. Carbo admitted that he was out of ideas. We could have tried some big moves at the deadline. I doubt that would have worked but maybe. The only viable option thing left was to fire Carbonneau. We may yet salvage a decent season. Maybe this is unfair to Carbonneau but Gainey had no other reasonable choices. Doing nothing would have meant a disgraceful fall into lousiness.

Some people blame the players and say they wanted Carbo fired. I don't subscribe to this view, but even if its true, that is a power the players hold. You may not like it but thre is no point in destroying the team to punish a few players. How long would it take to rebuild by dumping 5 or 6 important guys in a blood-letting and keeping Carbo? Too long. Get rid of them over the off season if we need to.

-----------

Regarding re-signing Koivu and/or Kovalev: Gainey will try to re-sign both and if he can they will both be back next season for smaller and shorter contracts. For those who want to see Kovalev gone, who do we replace him with? There are not many elite free agents available and no guarantee we can attract those that will be available. Similarly replacing Koivu isn't all that easy either although we could probably do it. Finding someone better than Koivu is harder.

Kovy is not an elite player, he is a good player and according to many, a coach killer. Koivu is also replaceable.

If you look at the points these guys put up, there are going to be a lot of available players who are better. You are right that it will be difficult to sign top guys, but I wouldn't assume Koivu and Kovy want to sign here either.

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From TSN.ca:

Question No. 4: If you were Bob Gainey, who would you hire to coach the Canadiens next season? Marc Crawford, Bob Hartley, Don Lever or Patrick Roy?

Jones: Marc Crawford, without question. A phenomenal coach - had the opportunity to play for him while I was with the Colorado Avalanche following his Stanley Cup championship season in '96. Crawford knew how to get the most out of highly skilled players in that lineup like Forsberg and like Sakic. He does a terrific job and would be a great choice.

Dreger: Take it in a new and fresh direction - that means Don Lever. Bob Gainey, the general manager, called up Don Lever from the Hamilton Bulldogs for a reason. That's because of his connection with Montreal's younger player. Yes there's a language barrier in Montreal but Don Lever's a fresh choice.

Ferraro: I had a tough time with this - I looked at the four candidates and I really wasn't sure which way to go but Jonesy, you broke me down on this. He's president of the Marc Crawford Fan Club so I'm going to go along with Crawford as well. I believe Crawford can do a very good job in Montreal but no way should Bob Gainey just limit his choice to a bilingual coach. I understand that the language is an important part of the culture in Montreal - if the best candidate is an English-speaking coach, hire the English-speaking coach and have a translator with him.

Ouch. Not a French candidate to be seen a mile away. Looks like 'best man for the job' really might be a consideration. Who'd a thunk it!

Edited by Colin

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Ouch. Not a French candidate to be seen a mile away. Looks like 'best man for the job' really might be a consideration. Who'd a thunk it!

Since when are Patrick Roy and Bob Hartley not French? I'd say there's also a good chance Crawford learned French before the Nordiques moved to Colorado.

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Since when are Patrick Roy and Bob Hartley not French? I'd say there's also a good chance Crawford learned French before the Nordiques moved to Colorado.

Crawford did. I actually listened to Sirius HNIC radio the day Carbo was fired, and they had Crawford on the show. He mentioned that he had learned french (or at least tried) while with the Aces/Nords. He also hesitated when asked if he'd consider a job in Montreal.

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Lever is the closest to Montreal, but since he's mostly regarded as a teacher I'm wondering how the vets will respond to him. Might work, like Boudreau in Washington... or not work, like Marc Crawford in LA...

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