Giguere deserves the Smythe

[Markov79]

He's been the best player in the playoffs so far, but if he doesn't have what it takes to give his team the win in game 7 of the SC finals, then in my mind he wasn't the most valuable player.

I think it's still idiotic to say ''no matter what happens tonight'' Giguere deserves the Smythe.

If he plays ok and still loses, maybe. But if he's shaky then he doesn't deserve it.

[Edited on 2003/6/9 by Markov79]

[sakiqc]

It is sure goalies weren't a major factor in the Stanley Cup Finals. Brodeur and Giguere were shaky. But, we cannot forget that Giguere won the 3 series before almost all by himself (Dallas, Detroit and Minnesota!)

So if the Conn Smythe is allowed to the best player of the playoff, then probably Giguere will have it, since he was THE star of 3/4 of the playoffs.

The only thing I can see, it's if Kariya scores the Overtime Winning goal. He played good all playoffs (not Mario Lemieux-like but good) then he scored an important goal after the Stevens'hit.

Anyway, that's not likely to happen. I don't see how Giguere can lost the trophy.

[Markov79]

I just think it should be given to the player who best allowed his team to win the cup.

If Giguere has an average game tonight, then give it to him. But if he blows the most important game of the playoffs, the true test of a Conn Smythe winner, then I don't think he deserves it.

[sakiqc]

MVP is the player who is the Most valuable in the playoffs.

Giguere was unbelievable 3/4 of the playoffs... is there any other player who was MORE valuable than him?

The MVP is not allowed to the 1st star of the last game.

It would be tough to find a player more valuable than JS.

Any ideas of who else can hae a shot ?

Go !

[Habs77]

Originally posted by Markov79

He's been the best player in the playoffs so far, but if he doesn't have what it takes to give his team the win in  game 7 of the SC finals, then in my mind he wasn't the most valuable player.  

I think it's still idiotic to say ''no matter what happens tonight'' Giguere deserves the Smythe.  

If he plays ok and still loses, maybe. But if he's shaky then he doesn't deserve it.

I find it funny that people are jealous of the Ducks success, and how they choose to forget what Giguère accomplished in order for the Ducks to even get this far...

They just put it in their mind that they hate a certain team (player) and then their arguments are weak as hell... ring a bell?

No player with NJ deserves the MVP... Niedermayer, Madden, Langenbrunner, Friesen, Brodeur all had good playoffs... but none even come close to being THE most valuable player like Giguère, not even close.

He could lose 20-0 tonight and I'd still vote for him easy... that's how good he has been in these playoffs.

I wouldn't expect a NJ fan to agree.. but that's the way it is

I hate the NJ FANS so much, half empty arena in the playoffs and all, that's the biggest reason I hope they lose tonight... the fans there just don't deserve it.

Anaheim's arena was half-empty most of the year, but at least they had the excuse of being an expansion that had never been commited to winning (and this in California no less)... and at least they DID start to appreciate their team once they turned things around.

Tonight's game would be been 10 times more exciting if it was played in Anaheim, that's too bad. I'll settle for an Anaheim win.

NJ fans just plain suck... none worse in the league.

Go Ducks.

[huzer]

Originally posted by Markov79

He's been the best player in the playoffs so far, but if he doesn't have what it takes to give his team the win in  game 7 of the SC finals, then in my mind he wasn't the most valuable player.

Hmmm, Hextall lost game 7 on the road in Edmonton way back when...he snagged the Conn Smythe. I hope the same fate (a game 7 loss) doesn't await Giguere, but he does deserve the trophy. As Habs77 said, I can't think of anyone else on either team that has been more important to his team, period. Since both teams play that idiotically annoying system, the only logical choices for MVP are the two goalies. If anyone else snags it, I'll be incredibly shocked.

Here's hoping Kariya skates with his head up!

[Markov79]

''It's funny that some people are jealous of the Ducks success'': LOL

The only jealous person here is people like you who envy the Devils. At least I have the guts to admit they do whatever it takes to win year after year.

Newsflash, I don't hate the Ducks, in fact I was one of their biggest fans during the regular season. (even before the season started) Sad to see you don't know everything, eh Habs77?

Then again, what would you expect from a person jealous of the Devils' success...

Giguere has been the best so far, but he needs to show up in game 7 because if he blows it bad when it counts the most, how can you be the MVP?

Oh, and as for the ''exciting'' arena in Anaheim, NJ's is just as good during these series. Tell me, what is it exactly that makes the games better in Anaheim?

Is it Elmilio Estevez showing up and talking about the freaking Mighty Ducks MOVIE?

You want a weak argument? How about saying that a certain TEAM isn't deserving of a win because of their FANS. Gee, I guess the Habs players really deserved to win the cup because we are basically the best fans in the world (we are:)!)

Plus the Devils don't bitch and complain and annoy other teams, they play clean, unlike teams such as Toronto or Boston...They are disciplined and mind their own business. Madden barks a little at Rucchin and suddenly the Devils are a whining team...give me a break...

Poor Habs77...If you're THAT sick about watching NJ at home then...don't watch

Go Devils

[Edited on 2003/6/9 by Markov79]

[sakiqc]

Giguere has been the best so far, but he needs to show up in game 7 because if he blows it bad when it counts the most, how can you be the MVP?  

"the best so far" = MVP

if he allows 5 goals tonight, will he still have been the best player of the playoffs?

i think yes

[Markov79]

So does Brodeur.

Giguere showed up in the last game, he should win it but Brodeur has a slim chance.

[Habs77]

Brodeur didn't have a prayer... as I told you.

Most of his shutouts were team shutouts... Giguère's were mostly one-man shows.

Numbers mean nothing... anybody who watched the games know who was the MVP of these playoffs, and thankfully those who had a vote WERE watching, unlike you Markov.

Even on NJ alone, I'd have given it to Niedermayer before Brodeur... he barely had to break a sweat tonight, and many other nights.

[Markov79]

...NJ wins as A TEAM. If you don't think the Devils deserved the cup, or were lucky, then ouch. They do the most with the amount of skill they have.

TEAM wins cups, not one-player shows.

You're a joke Habs77, but oh well.

[Habs77]

Originally posted by Markov79

Oh, and as for the ''exciting'' arena in Anaheim, NJ's is just as good during these series. Tell me, what is it exactly that makes the games better in Anaheim?

If you watched the games and couldn't tell, I can't help you.... it was that obvious. Again tonight, a ho hum game... pretty boring, only thing that made this game a little better than most boring games was that we knew it was the last of the season... and even then...

Plus the Devils don't bitch and complain and annoy other teams....

Madden is a poor man's Tucker in terms of being a jackass on the ice, Friesen is another one. I respect Stevens, Niedermayer.. and do the job and just shut up.

Brodeur is that way too, low key and just does his job out there.

If you're THAT sick about watching NJ at home then...don't watch

Sadly all of us had to watch, and we got the game we expected... nothing much.

Hamilton's game playing at the same time was great for comparison purposes, it was so much more intense & exciting... and that was only Game 6

But the better the team won, and the best player won the MVP... so in that sense all happened as it should have.

I don't remember home-ice being such an advantage since the old days back in the old buildings... what's that about? Is it familiarity with the rink, being in your hometown before the game, having the last change that is suddenly such an advantage? (for NJ it certainly wasn't the crowd )

I really don't know, but whatever it was you could just feel it from the drop of the puck... can't remember the last time I've seen that.

Sorry for Stumpy, Oates... happy for Daneyko, and Burns.

The key to the series IMO was the fact that the Ducks were completely incapable of getting sustained pressure in the Devils' zone... thanks to the combination of Brodeur being so comfortable leaving his net especially on home ice, and Niedermayer/Rafalski carrying the puck out with ease.

But the Ducks managed to beat Dallas with Turco who is another goalie great at leaving his net... so the difference was the players did a better job of getting the puck out for NJ (the Dmen, plus the wingers on the boards at the point).

Not pretty, but effective.

If you want to find something good that'll come out of this year's playoffs... the fact 3 of the 4 last teams relied almost stricly on the trap and were successful just might provide enough motivation among the NHL brass to make serious changes to the game to make it exciting again. (I'll start a different thread on that subject)

And now... can't wait for the draft

[Habs77]

Originally posted by Markov79

...NJ wins as  A TEAM. If you don't think the Devils deserved the cup, or were lucky, then ouch. They do the most with the amount of skill they have.  

TEAM wins cups, not one-player shows.  

You're a joke Habs77, but oh well.

NJ is a better team than Anaheim, I never said anything to the contrary... they are not a better team than Ottawa, there they got lucky.

As for your little insult... didn't I tell you already that Koz type posting doesn't impress me in the least?

Get your own act, this wannabe act is just sad.

[Markov79]

Another obvious fact there, but it's ok that you don't get it.

So I guess Anaheim was lucky to sweep Detroit and beat the Stars?

The Sens had more pure skill then the Devils, were a better team on paper, but you should start to understand that it's not the flashiest team that win cups, it's the best TEAMS that do.

Ottawa could of been the in finals, it was close, but if you say that NJ were lucky to beat the Sens then I guess EVERY team that one a game 7 by a goal was lucky, even if it was in the last 5 minutes.

So if the Devils would of won vs Ottawa in OT instead of the finals minutes, it would have been luck too?

I also guess it was pure luck that let the Habs win the cup in 1993.

NJ was the best team in these playoffs, when it counted the most they all played to the max. and did what they could to win.

I wish my Habs would have the same drive.

[Habs77]

Originally posted by Markov79

So I guess Anaheim was lucky to sweep Detroit and beat the Stars?

Anaheim SWEPT Detroit... how is that in any way similar to the Devils barely escaping with a steal Game 7?

If you brain has an "on" button, now would be the time to press it. :eyes:

As for the Dallas series... both teams went at it from Game 1, Anaheim won. (Although if Dallas was healthy I'm not sure that even Giguère could have carried his team past them)

As for the NJ-OTT series... OTT sleepwalked 'til they were down 3-1. Then a dying Neilson made speach woke them up from their coma, and once they did NJ was not match... it got to Game 7, Ottawa totally dominated, but NJ managed to steal it.

So NJ was lucky in that OTT spotted them a 3-1 lead before starting to play, then lucky they managed to steal a Game 7 they had no business winning.

It happens... sometimes you win games you should have lost... series you should have lost... that doesn't make you better, it makes you lucky.

They beat the struggling Bruins, the so-so Lightning, barely got throught the sleeping Senators, and then the Ducks... not exactly the toughest road to the Cup I've ever seen.

Ducks had a much tougher road, defending champions Detroit, Dallas, ok Minnesota, then NJ.

Despite that the Ducks finish the playoffs with a 15-5 (.750) record... NJ a 16-8 (.666)

NJ IS one of the better teams in the league, but not THE best. They got lucky this year, yes luck does play it's part in every playoffs, some years more than others. And yet they have the Cup and that's all that matters...

The thing I like, and respect, about NJ is the way the organization is run... they don't spend as much as they could, they prefer to rely on good management. They have an experienced & competent GM, an experienced & competent coach.

Why has it been so hard for Montreal to do that, after all it's so damn simple.

[Edited on 10-6-03 by Habs77]

[Markov79]

Coming from the person who dislikes jealous people...LOL...You clearly hate the Devils. (like most people) And to quote you: ''that makes your arguments weak as hell''.

You're analysing the ''what if this and that happened'' of the Devils this year... Care to do that for all the teams that won the cup for the last 80 years or so?

The Sens won the 1st game of the series, so I guess they were sleepwalking and somehow still managed to win?

And when the Sens did ''wake up'' they still LOST to the Devils in game 7. I guess that's still luck!

Poor Habs77, you have to understand that it's not sheer skill on paper that makes a champion. It's experience, and the ability to BRING IT when it counts the most.

The Devils had an easy road?

The Devils were favorites to beat the Bruins and Lightning in 4-6 games for each series. That's EXACTLY what they did, and they even made it shorter. The Bruins couldn't do anything except for one game and the Devils won in 5. They also beat the Bolts in only 5 games, and BTW when they won it wasn't always in overtime: the other team almost never had control of the puck.

The Sens were the most skilled team of the playoffs, but THERE'S A REASON why they didn't show up for 2-3 games of the most important series of their lives: they didn't have what it takes to be a winner yet.

A champion team doesn't only rely on its skill, it had every player on the ice working together for a full 60 minutes, and it doesn't ''take games off''.

The fact that the Sens ''didn't show up'' (lame excuse for not admitting the Devils just beat them) is alone proof that they don't even deserve the Cup.

[Habs77]

Originally posted by Markov79

And when the Sens did ''wake up'' they still LOST to the Devils in game 7. I guess that's still luck!

Did you even watch that game?... total Ottawa domination except on the scoreboard... dictated the play all night long.

Yes NJ got real lucky... and it takes that kind of luck when you're not the best but win the cup anyway.

The best team often doesn't win the Cup... deal with it.

And on the pathetic NJ fans, they can't have their parade because they need the parking lot it was schedule to be held in for the basketball game... it doesn't get any lamer than that.

And I don't hate the Devils, I like Stevens, Neidermayer, their coach, GM, Stevenson, Langenbruner, Rafalski, Brodeur (even if his numbers are inflated because of the team in front of him, ultra defensive team).

I just happen to have no respect for trash-talking bums like Madden/Friesen... I put them in the same bin with Thornton, Guerin, Tucker in the "players I hate" category.

[Markov79]

Give me a break

You run out of ideas so now you constantly bring up the fact that their fans suck.

Yes, they have bad fans, DEAL WITH IT! Do you think you're the 1st to realize that Jersey doesn't compare to Montreal, or any good hockey town to that matter? Bravo

East Rutherford blows, their arena blows, and they know it: the Devils are getting a new arena soon...

Your opinion as to the Devils being outplayed by the Sens is still just your own little opinion, keep it for yourself instead of thinking that if you say it's true, it must be it.

I have my opinion, you have yours. Get over it.

And as for the ''Koz thing'', I have never seen a poster who ressembles him more than you.

[Habs77]

Originally posted by Markov79

I have my opinion, you have yours. Get over it.

Hey... that's my line, you got mixed up reading the cue cards I guess.

I simply stated NJ wasn't the best team... that's it.

You're the one who's been in a rage ever since, so who needs to get over what again?

And as for the ''Koz thing'', I have never seen a poster who ressembles him more than you.

Koz insulted anyone who disagreed with him, which is what you often do as well... while I try to reserve my insults for people that have insulted me first.

You should try my shrink's advice, jerk off before posting... it uses up some of the pent up aggressive energy, then you can post in a more pleasant, relaxed frame of mind. :contract:

And since we both agree this thread has run it's course... it is now closed.