Official MLB Discussion Thread

[BlueKross]

Johnson would still get good money if he were on the market now. Not to the extent of $13 million but 8-10 isn't unfathomable because of his past successes. Also, I'd disagree as to what's more important - I'd rather try and get his value to the point of increasing the likelihood of getting a third pick in the 1st round than turfing him in the hopes that his replacement might add one or two more wins. In terms of regrouping the others - he's a pitcher, he only impacts one out of every five games. Keeping or getting rid of him isn't going to do much of anything to rally the troops, especially considering the options to use aside from him (and it's certainly not worth trading for another starter at the moment).

Well we can disagree. Your first obligation should be to put the best product on the field every night. You just can't run JJ out there in his present state. It would be no different if you left a first baseman out there that couldn't catch a ball. For my money, you have to make a change.

[Commandant]

You could replace Josh Johnson with Adam Wainright tomorrow and the Jays still arent making the playoffs. Might as well either

1) trade him for prospects with the value equal to the compensatory pick

or

2) try and get another first rounder out of him.

No point in losing him for nothing.

[dlbalr]

Well we can disagree. Your first obligation should be to put the best product on the field every night. You just can't run JJ out there in his present state. It would be no different if you left a first baseman out there that couldn't catch a ball. For my money, you have to make a change.

Sure it would. The 1st baseman would cost you every night, the bad starter would cost you one in five. And quite honestly, I feel a whole lot better trotting Josh Johnson out there in three days than I would Dave Bush, Justin Germano, or one of the other career minor leaguers in AAA (Happ is still on rehab and Romero isn't ready yet). They're a better team with Johnson than not when those are the options.

[BlueKross]

Sure it would. The 1st baseman would cost you every night, the bad starter would cost you one in five. And quite honestly, I feel a whole lot better trotting Josh Johnson out there in three days than I would Dave Bush, Justin Germano, or one of the other career minor leaguers in AAA (Happ is still on rehab and Romero isn't ready yet). They're a better team with Johnson than not when those are the options.

Let me rephrase. You can't leave somebody out there at the major league level, at least for very long. who constantly puts you in a hole when he is on the field. I would point out that JJ's last outing not only had drastic effect for the game he was in, but spent the bullpen for the following game and may have enough effect to induce the sweep.

[dlbalr]

Let me rephrase. You can't leave somebody out there at the major league level, at least for very long. who constantly puts you in a hole when he is on the field. I would point out that JJ's last outing not only had drastic effect for the game he was in, but spent the bullpen for the following game and may have enough effect to induce the sweep.

I don't disagree. However, replacing him with someone who would yield the exact same result also accomplishes nothing. In fact, it does worse that that by completely eliminating any chance of recovering something for Johnson while likely having to DFA someone off the roster. The AAA rotation is as follows:

Happ (rehab, still needs a couple of starts; will likely take Redmond's spot on the 25-man when healthy)

Wang (not on the 40-man, couldn't pitch into the 3rd his last two ML starts)

Romero (not on the 40-man, couldn't pitch into the 2nd his last AAA start)

Germano (not on the 40-man, ERA over 5.00 at AAA)

Weber (on the 40-man but is best suited as a reliever)

There's no one that's ready there that would do any better than Johnson, even as bad as he's been and it makes no sense at all to trade for a temporary replacement given that they're going nowhere. Who would you replace him with? For better or for worse, Johnson's going to keep taking the ball every five days for the foreseeable future.

[BlueKross]

I am not here to solve the problem. I will be shocked if they let it malais much longer. its kind of like damned if you do damned if you don't. What I do know is that I am not alone in my assessment.

[dlbalr]

I am not here to solve the problem. I will be shocked if they let it malais much longer. its kind of like damned if you do damned if you don't. What I do know is that I am not alone in my assessment.

I know we're not the ones to solve it but if you're advocating taking him out of the rotation, I'd be curious to know who you have in mind to replace him. In the meantime, hope that Houston can cure what ails him (the way the Astros have played all year, there's a chance he can get back on track yet).

[BlueKross]

Keep Redmond up when Happ comes back/ sign Marcuum/ santos comes back stretch somebody out 0f bullpen. There has to be more options . I don't really know. All I know is they can't leave JJ out there hanging the rest of team to dry. Incidently, a first baseman missing catchable ball becomes an ex first baseman before a pitcher would get his second start.

[dlbalr]

Keep Redmond up when Happ comes back/ sign Marcuum/ santos comes back stretch somebody out 0f bullpen. There has to be more options . I don't really know. All I know is they can't leave JJ out there hanging the rest of team to dry. Incidently, a first baseman missing catchable ball becomes an ex first baseman before a pitcher would get his second start.

I think Marcum's out for the year so he's not an option (and given that he was as bad if not worse than Johnson when healthy, he wouldn't be an upgrade anyways). Redmond isn't ideal either, he's a career minor leaguer and the book isn't out on him yet. I think he'd be lucky to get through three more starts before he gets lit up. The bullpen is wearing down now, stretching one of those tired arms out isn't going to help; there really aren't too many candidates either (Cecil used to be a starter but struggled as one, that's why he's in the pen). If you want other options, you've gotta go to AA, there's Nolin (who didn't make it out of the 2nd in his debut) and Stroman who doesn't need to go on the 40-man for another year and a bit unless absolutely necessary (I'd prefer not to lose a year of control to be a two month replacement to a struggling starter when they're 11 out of the wild card). That's the whole point I've been making - despite his struggles, he's about the best option they have right now and sticking with him even makes sense in the longer-term.

[BlueKross]

JJ lines up against Houston on Saturday. If he is a no-show you might as well line up the suspects that you have mentioned / waiver pick ups what ever. The good news if he does show, albeit Houston, there will be the preception that things are improving which might give him a longer leash.

[dlbalr]

Philly gets Gonzalez, the Cuban pitcher. 6 years, $48 million plus a vesting option at $11M for a seventh season. http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/report-phillies-to-sign-cuban-star-gonzalez/

[BlueKross]

I don't expect the Jays were really in on Garza or Gonzales. Knowing how confidental AA conducts his business, if ones hears about a situation before it is a done deal, then the Jays are probably out of it. Also the price range is probably prohibitive after the big expenditures last year. The BJ did sign a 16yr. 3rd baseman from the Dominican, per the BJ official site, at 1/4M.--- more in their price range.

[dlbalr]

I don't expect the Jays were really in on Garza or Gonzales. Knowing how confidental AA conducts his business, if ones hears about a situation before it is a done deal, then the Jays are probably out of it. Also the price range is probably prohibitive after the big expenditures last year. The BJ did sign a 16yr. 3rd baseman from the Dominican, per the BJ official site, at 1/4M.--- more in their price range.

The 16 year old is subject to slot restrictions, as are the other IFA's they've signed (and there are a few others as there are every year). If that option year vests, Gonzalez's deal would be the most expensive to an international UFA ever (slightly surpassing Darvish's deal). That's a huge risk to take although I wouldn't have minded them jumping in there.

[BlueKross]

The 16 year old is subject to slot restrictions, as are the other IFA's they've signed (and there are a few others as there are every year). If that option year vests, Gonzalez's deal would be the most expensive to an international UFA ever (slightly surpassing Darvish's deal). That's a huge risk to take although I wouldn't have minded them jumping in there.

That's sort of what i am hinting at. I have my doubts if Rogers has allocated enough blessing to make AA a legitamate suitor, The only favourable outcome would be to leak the news early to get a little publicity..

[BlueKross]

Apparently JJ has been fighting some kind of leg problem, which would make sense for how he has pitched.(per the jays official site) That should close any notion that he might get dealt. It would lend an excuse to shut him down whether the injury is fictious or real. Currently he is of no value to anyone and negative value to the Jays.

[dlbalr]

And here come the suspensions. Getting hit so far today for 50 games apiece are:

Nelson Cruz (OF-TEX)

Everth Cabrera (SS-SD)

Jhonny Peralta (SS-DET) - they knew that was coming when they got Iglesias from Boston

Antonio Bastardo (RP-PHI)

Jordany Valdespin (IF/OF-NYM)

Francisco Cervelli (C-NYY)

Jesus Montero (C-SEA)

Cesar Puello (OF-NYM)

Fautino De Los Santos (P-SD)

Sergio Escalona (P-HOU)

Fernando Martinez (OF-NYY)

Jordan Norberto (P-FA) - I bet you this doesn't help his chances of signing anywhere

Yasmani Grandal, Bartolo Colon, and Melky Cabrera don't receive any additional discipline while Gio Gonzalez and Danny Valencia, who some thought were going to get hit, didn't either.

Alex Rodriguez is expected to get 214 games but will appeal. The thought is a few more may still be pending but will also be appealed.

[dlbalr]

This A-Rod debacle never seems to get out of the media. It was reported yesterday that he (or more likely, his 'people') leaked info to MLB about two of the other players who got suspended...including one of his teammates. I think at this point, most fans don't want to hear another thing about Rodriguez until the result of his appeal is made public sometime in the offseason.

The Jays are finding lots of different ways to lose this year but their AA team may have trumped them all - losing on an intentional walk. http://www.bluebirdbanter.com/2013/8/16/4627044/video-time-new-hampshire-loses-on-walk-off-wild-pitch-daniel-norris (The first video)

[BlueKross]

Looks like the medical staff/trainers are the potential fall guys for this dismal season. Gibbon's gets to keep his job because he has done a good job? Seems to me AA needs to go and count beans somewhere else.

[dlbalr]

Looks like the medical staff/trainers are the potential fall guys for this dismal season. Gibbon's gets to keep his job because he has done a good job? Seems to me AA needs to go and count beans somewhere else.

It's really hard to quantify a managers' impact on any given team. He certainly shouldn't be absolved of any blame but he shouldn't be the scapegoat. The bullpen management is strong, the game-to-game lineups largely make sense (unlike some past managers where three weeks of a slump were needed to move down a spot), those are the main in-game affects a manager can have. There aren't any Ozzie Guillen or Bobby Valentine-like fiascos either which is nice. If anything, my biggest coaching concern is with Pete Walker, the pitching coach. When pretty much all of the starters have surprisingly bad years, a lot of the blame should fall to him. I think that's where a change needs to be made more than anything (and I suspect he will be moving on).

[BlueKross]

It's really hard to quantify a managers' impact on any given team. He certainly shouldn't be absolved of any blame but he shouldn't be the scapegoat. The bullpen management is strong, the game-to-game lineups largely make sense (unlike some past managers where three weeks of a slump were needed to move down a spot), those are the main in-game affects a manager can have. There aren't any Ozzie Guillen or Bobby Valentine-like fiascos either which is nice. If anything, my biggest coaching concern is with Pete Walker, the pitching coach. When pretty much all of the starters have surprisingly bad years, a lot of the blame should fall to him. I think that's where a change needs to be made more than anything (and I suspect he will be moving on).

I can't disagree with that. i would say that i expect more of the manager than just running the players out there day to day. i would expect the manager to direct the daily progression and development of players. I am not seeing that. I see the top tier development team Triple A Buffalo filled with retreads from other teams. Why not use that space to develop your own players? That is just one thing. Personnally, I think the problem is organizational and runs deeper and higher up.

[dlbalr]

I can't disagree with that. i would say that i expect more of the manager than just running the players out there day to day. i would expect the manager to direct the daily progression and development of players. I am not seeing that. I see the top tier development team Triple A Buffalo filled with retreads from other teams. Why not use that space to develop your own players? That is just one thing. Personnally, I think the problem is organizational and runs deeper and higher up.

Every AAA team has tons of filler players. Part of the arrangement made with Buffalo to get them to leave the Mets was that they'd put forth a much better effort than they did in Vegas to bring in quality veterans to keep the team competitive. In terms of position players, they've had a lot of their better prospects out there (Pillar, Gose, Sierra, and Goins - all of whom are up now - were regulars down there). Pitching wise there haven't been many but that should change next year (Nolin, Stroman, Hutchison, Jenkins, McGuire, etc) - they're either finally healthy or progressing from AA New Hampshire.

There's a big gap in terms of higher level minor leaguers but that falls on the previous management regime - the guys that Anthopoulos has drafted for the most part are playing at High-A or lower as is natural for guys in their first few seasons (go from extended spring training to short season to full season Low-A to High-A). In the next couple of years, those players should continue to advance and make more of an impact at the higher minor league levels meaning there shouldn't be a need for as many veterans. They'll still need/want some for sure though, every team needs them.

[BlueKross]

One thing we can agree on is that there needs to be changes. I am not in agreement with AA on the evaluation of job done by Gibbons. The endorsement of Gibbons is based on the assumption that AA will be back. The bottom line, which is increased ticket sales should be enough to retain AA. I will predict that a resumption of similar results heading into next year will put AA tenure in jeopardy.

[dlbalr]

One thing we can agree on is that there needs to be changes. I am not in agreement with AA on the evaluation of job done by Gibbons. The endorsement of Gibbons is based on the assumption that AA will be back. The bottom line, which is increased ticket sales should be enough to retain AA. I will predict that a resumption of similar results heading into next year will put AA tenure in jeopardy.

Yeah, I think it's safe to say that if we see a repeat of this year at this time next season, there will be a house cleaning.

[dlbalr]

Alex Rodriguez can't go very long without getting his name in the media. He filed a complaint against MLB today. https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef/ViewDocument?docIndex=eGASxaYAaqLtQ1Jfd9hS4w==

[JoeLassister]

Nice read. Biased, but nice.