JoeLassister Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 No we are talking about the people who are considered to be of working age...that is from 15 to 65 years of age! I received about 90% of what I paid in 2008. I was 24, I earned around 25.000$ before taxes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_Boagalott Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 Capitalism, for all it's fault, is the best system to move a society forward in terms of technological advancement and superior services. But at what cost? Capitalism is the absolute worst system to move a society forward in terms of technological advancement and superior services. Proof: Have you ever taken a train from L.A. to NYC in 1 hour? No Eh. Why not, the technology exists. So why isnt there such a train? It costs to much to advance all of our lives, especially when you factor in all the profits for the companies making it and bulding it. Capatalism rocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 But at what cost? Capitalism is the absolute worst system to move a society forward in terms of technological advancement and superior services. Proof: Have you ever taken a train from L.A. to NYC in 1 hour? No Eh. Why not, the technology exists. So why isnt there such a train? It costs to much to advance all of our lives, especially when you factor in all the profits for the companies making it and bulding it. Capatalism rocks. The tech also exists for non-polluting cars, etc, etc. But since big oil, tabacco, pharmacy etc rule the world, capitalism has taken progress out of the equation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenadian Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 Capitalism doesn't work.....Just look at AO and their performance last night! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazy26 Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 Capitalism doesn't work.....Just look at AO and their performance last night! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tokyohabs Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 Capitalism doesn't work.....Just look at AO and their performance last night! +1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForumGhost Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 (edited) Capitalism works because it fuels competition. Competition pushes competing companies to keep developing better products to continuously outdo their competitors. If there was only one type of car made by one company, what incentive would there be to make it better? If they don't, it's not like the people can choose another car. Example #1: The iPhone. Love it or hate it, this is a serious advancement in technology. Not just because of the touch screen, but the way it accomplishes so much with such a simple interface. This is a major step toward the 'universal device', if it isn't already that. It exists because Apple needed a way to stand out from the crowd of a million different cellphone, blackberry and mp3 player companies. Example #2: The STM. It sucks. Like, really sucks. Is it going to get better? Nope. It's not being pushed by any competition. It pretty much has a monopoly on the public transit system here, so what's the worse that can happen if it doesn't seriously attempt to improve? Nothing. Either way, the people gotta fork over their money to use it anyways. Also, it wasn't facism that drove the technological advances during the war, it was the war itself. Germany was quite literally in competition with the allies and if it wasn't pushed to outdo them, they wouldn't have stood a chance of winning. Edited May 16, 2009 by ForumGhost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanpuck33 Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 Capitalism is the absolute worst system to move a society forward in terms of technological advancement and superior services. Well, there's two sides of the coin. When there are essential monopolies and businesses so massive that the competition is meaningless, then you're correct. True capitalism, though, is based a lot on competition. When there is competition, technological advances are what keep companies alive. If your company isn't coming up with better technology each and every week, you're going to get left behind by other companies who are advancing. Every week there's a better phone, better computer, better TV, better almost anything because of the competition. The problem with capitalism is that it's all economics and no society. Just as an example, if there wasn't so much money to be made in technology and silly things like erectile dysfunction research, don't you think that we'd be a lot closer to curing things like cancer and AIDs? I certainly do. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying "down with capitalism." Right now, I still think it's better than the alternatives. It's obviously not perfect and not the best in theory, but it's worked out in practice better than the others. Communism sounds wonderful in theory, but in practice, it's been terrible, whether that be economically or socially. It failed in Russia on both counts. It's failing miserably socially in China now. On a less serious note, the best choice is clearly to find Zefram Cochran, help him invent warp drive, and then found the United Federation of Planets. Wait, I guess we have to have WWIII first. Let's get it on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 I dont see what's the big arguement about. Capitalism -- like Communism -- is dead folks. Why? Because we all live in mixed economies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zowpeb Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 Exactly, Koz. The reason the posts about Capitalism NOT moving progress forward are ignoring the fact that we live in economies which already carry significant levels of government involvement. There are many degrees of government between capitalism and communism and totalitarian regimes. The most innovative and economically successful have historically proven to have capitalist drivers with varying degrees of government intervention and regulation to protect the lower economic classes. As for the comments about how many poor people live in Canada or the US...it's rather a ridiculous argument if you do not have a common scale to judge a the level of "poverty". In Canada we measure poverty as a percentage of the population...you can NEVER irradicate poverty in Canada, which is exactly what many Liberal part members and all NDPers want. The government looks at what percentage of people earn below a median income level...since there will ALWAYS be people earning in, let's say the bottom 25%, it doesn't mean they can't afford to live in comfort. Poverty in North America is quite different then poverty in China, Mexico or most 3rd world nations. No one is saying it doesn't exist in North America but I think it's VERY FAIR to say that, if measured equally, poverty here is FAR LOWER then in most other nations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Puck Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 Capitalism works because it fuels competition. Competition pushes competing companies to keep developing better products to continuously outdo their competitors. If there was only one type of car made by one company, what incentive would there be to make it better? If they don't, it's not like the people can choose another car. Example #1: The iPhone. Love it or hate it, this is a serious advancement in technology. Not just because of the touch screen, but the way it accomplishes so much with such a simple interface. This is a major step toward the 'universal device', if it isn't already that. It exists because Apple needed a way to stand out from the crowd of a million different cellphone, blackberry and mp3 player companies. Example #2: The STM. It sucks. Like, really sucks. Is it going to get better? Nope. It's not being pushed by any competition. It pretty much has a monopoly on the public transit system here, so what's the worse that can happen if it doesn't seriously attempt to improve? Nothing. Either way, the people gotta fork over their money to use it anyways. Also, it wasn't facism that drove the technological advances during the war, it was the war itself. Germany was quite literally in competition with the allies and if it wasn't pushed to outdo them, they wouldn't have stood a chance of winning. Example #3 (From the news earlier this week). The government pays interest on taxes that corporations pay if it turns out that they overpaid. The current rate of interest the government pays exceeds what banks pay (3% vs 0.2% iirc). So businesses intentionally overpay and refuse to take money back and then insist (and receive) their extra 2.8% interest. This is money taken from citizens' taxes. Capitalism may encourage competition but it also encourages greed and this sort of cheating. Many (most?) companies find it easier to cheat than to innovate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 Capitalism may encourage competition but it also encourages greed and this sort of cheating. Many (most?) companies find it easier to cheat than to innovate. Greed fuels capitalism anyway. The end goal of capitalism is profits; not innovation. Competition in itself is meanlingless, companies dont compete for bragging rights, they compete for profits. Innovation isnt motivated by idealism, it's motivated by the goal of gaining more market shares and making more profits. So of course, if there's a shortcut to more profits -- and a lot are very legal, like using lesser quality products, raising prices, etc -- lot will be tempted to take it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLP Posted May 17, 2009 Author Share Posted May 17, 2009 IMO capitalism brings out the worst in people. As KoZ points out, capitalism is about increasing profits, not advancing humanity. After sixty centuries, is this the best we can manage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zowpeb Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 IMO capitalism brings out the worst in people. As KoZ points out, capitalism is about increasing profits, not advancing humanity. After sixty centuries, is this the best we can manage? That is not the fault of capitalism but the fault of humanity itself. Or perhaps your argument is that capitalism brings out a worse form of human nature then any other political philosophy we've seen...and I don't personally think you have a leg to stand on. Over time, there have been far worse occurances then corporate, and/or individual, greed in communism, facism, etc. In fact, greed is not exactly limited to capitalist societies...after all, if it was we wouldn't have seen the rise of special ruling classes in communist/fascist societies, or the associated corruption from those leveraging the little authority they gained in those societies. Frankly, I think it's extremely naive to blame "capitalism" for human nature's very own flaws. At least under capitalism the opportunity for success is not limited to as small a portion of the populace, or those who had the luck to be born into it...and I'm not saying that doesn't factor into capitalism, just that it's not your ONLY avenue to success. Capitalism isn't perfect...most elected officials, governments and voting citizens realised that long ago, hence the varying level of social reforms that regulate, legislate and guide every country with capitalism at it's foundation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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