Habsworld Draft Central

[Fanpuck33]

Timmins is highly successful at wasting high round draft picks. 6 wasted picks in the last 3 drafts.

Let's count our chickens before they hatch!

Seriously, if a player in the NCAA is close to being NHL ready, chances are very good that he is going to leave school after his sophomore year and make the jump to the AHL, the same age CHLers are making the jump also.

[Sir_Boagalott]

I'm not counting anything before theyre hatched. I'm just looking at the track record in bewilderment.

Ya, I'm not so sure aboot them leaving college after their softmore year. Looking at the Habs NCAA track record its not very good. Its more like the chances are poor that a prospect who is off to the NCAA will leave before 2 years. I can think of only 3 Habs out of the last 20+ NCAA prospects picked who left NCAA after 2 years. Ironically off the top of my head I can only think of 3 NCAA prospects that even made the Habs. Komi, Higgs, Patches. Disagree and falsely beleive that Timmins is a drafting God all you want but the track record speaks for itself.

Timmins success rate is actually closer to being at par with Eklund ffs. Its true. :puke:

Now think of this: If it wasnt for the few Gems the Habs have drafted late in the drafts Timmins success rate would amazingly be worse than Eklunds 3%.

I'm going to start a new thread just aboot Timmins and why he should be the next big winner in this summers cleaning house sweepstakes.

Edited June 30, 2009 by Sir_Boagalott

[Habitforming]

I'm not counting anything before theyre hatched. I'm just looking at the track record in bewilderment.

Ya, I'm not so sure aboot them leaving college after their softmore year. Looking at the Habs NCAA track record its not very good. Its more like the chances are poor that a prospect who is off to the NCAA will leave before 2 years. I can think of only 3 Habs out of the last 20+ NCAA prospects picked who left NCAA after 2 years. Ironically off the top of my head I can only think of 3 NCAA prospects that even made the Habs. Komi, Higgs, Patches. Disagree and falsely beleive that Timmins is a drafting God all you want but the track record speaks for itself.

Timmins success rate is actually closer to being at par with Eklund ffs. Its true. :puke:

Now think of this: If it wasnt for the few Gems the Habs have drafted late in the drafts Timmins success rate would amazingly be worse than Eklunds 3%.

I'm going to start a new thread just aboot Timmins and why he should be the next big winner in this summers cleaning house sweepstakes.

I'm sorry, is there a scout in the NHL who has a great a great track record after the first three rounds?

I'd love to hear who it is and what they have done.

Until then I'm calling bullshit on this one. Just another "sky is falling" fan looking for something to bitch about.

[Trizzak]

Now think of this: If it wasnt for the few Gems the Habs have drafted late in the drafts Timmins success rate would amazingly be worse than Eklunds 3%.

You're comparing trade rumours to draft success? You just go ahead and keep talking about oranges while the rest of us discuss apples.

You seem to flip flop from talking about prospects' track record on not leaving the NCAA within 2 years (a good point) to then talking about Timmins' poor success rate in drafting (a pretty bad point). What does one have to do with the other?

Also, are you counting every player drafted by Timmins ever, or just his picks for Montreal? And are you including every pick for your math, including the ones selected a few days ago? That hardly takes into account the time needed for prospect development. Or are you talking about Timmins being unable to woo NCAA players to the AHL before they spend 2 years in the NCAA? That isn't his job.

I also like how you take away positive data out of the equation by saying "if it wasn't for the few late gems the Habs have drafted" just to try to prove your point. Might as well say, "If you take away anything positive Timmins has done you'll only see the negative like me!"

How do you determine success at a draft table? Is every pick supposed to be an NHLer? Do you have lesser expectations for a prospect selected in the 7th round as opposed to one selected in the 1st? Do you count all drafts in your equations, even the most recent one, thus making all players busts until they play an NHL game?

Timmins has drafted 55 players since he joined the Habs 2003. 15 have played an NHL game (and not busted out of the NHL (like Locke)). That's a better overall success rate than 3%.

These are the players that were selected during Timmins tenure in Montreal that decided to play in the NCAA. (The only player I know that is going from this season's draft is Louis Leblanc. If that is wrong, please edify.) I hope I didn't miss anyone.

Louis Leblanc, 1st round, 2009, NCAA

---

Greg Pateryn*, 2nd round, 2008, NCAA *not a Montreal pick

Steve Quailer, 3rd round, 2008, NCAA

Patrick Johnson, 7th round, 2008, NCAA

---

Max Pacioretty, 1st round, 2007, Habs

Ryan McDonaugh, 1st round, 2007, NCAA

Andrew Conboy, 5th round, 2007, AHLer

Joe Stejskal, 5th round, 2007, NCAA

Scott Kishel, 7th round, 2007, NCAA

---

David Fischer, 1st round, 2006, NCAA

---

Philippe Paquet, 7th round, 2005, NCAA

---

JT Wyman, 4th round, 2004, AHLer

Jon Gleed, 7th round, 2004, Gone?

---

Ryan O'Byrne, 3rd round, 2003, Habs/AHLer

Ignoring the guys selected 2 years ago or sooner.... David Fischer decided to stay in school a bit longer, and two 7th rounders and a 4th busted. I just can't get upset about this. At all. I'm happy with Timmins.

[Chris]

Cichy or however you spell his name is going to North Dakota to play with the other habs prospect you foirgot to mention and i can't remmeber his name either. He was the RW kid with a bunch of speed, played for America in the world Jr's.

Someone will remember his name.

[Psycing]

Cichy or however you spell his name is going to North Dakota to play with the other habs prospect you foirgot to mention and i can't remmeber his name either. He was the RW kid with a bunch of speed, played for America in the world Jr's.

Someone will remember his name.

Danny Kristo.

[Chris]

Thanks, i knew siomeone would get it.

Supposedly they will be playing on the same line at North Dakota. Since i get alot of college games i can see how they are doing.

[kaos]

I'm sorry, is there a scout in the NHL who has a great a great track record after the first three rounds?

I'd love to hear who it is and what they have done.

Not too sure who there scout is, but Detroit has been very successfull in the later rounds

Zetterberg 7th Rd

Holmstrom 10th Rd

Datysuk 6th Rd

Helm 5th Rd

Meech 7th Rd

Ericsson 9th Rd

Lidstrom 3rd Rd

Franzen 3rd Rd

Fillipulla 3rd Rd

Better take yer Bullshit back

However I do agree that Timmins has more misses than hits. Even the apparent steal of Kostitsyn at 10th overall in 2003, he really missed by not selecting Getzlaf, Carter, Richards or Parise

Edited June 30, 2009 by kaos

[dlbalr]

Small note on Petteri Simila, he was drafted in the 1st round of the CHL Import Draft this afternoon by the Niagara Ice Dogs.

http://www.niagaraicedogs.net/index.php?mo...lay&nid=532

Doesn't mean he'll report, but still news nonetheless.

[Sir_Boagalott]

You're comparing trade rumours to draft success? You just go ahead and keep talking about oranges while the rest of us discuss apples.

No, I'm comparing hockey idiots who apparently have close to 0 hockey sense.

You seem to flip flop from talking about prospects' track record on not leaving the NCAA within 2 years (a good point) to then talking about Timmins' poor success rate in drafting (a pretty bad point). What does one have to do with the other?

Of all the NCAA guys Timmins has a hard on for, I can only name 3 who actually ever made the Habs team. Komi, Higgs, and Patches. He's picked over 20+ of them. Is that great results? I think not.

Wasting 50% on NCAA guys is useless. Timmins has around a 10% success rate on NCAA guys. Its true. :puke:

Also, are you counting every player drafted by Timmins ever, or just his picks for Montreal? And are you including every pick for your math, including the ones selected a few days ago? That hardly takes into account the time needed for prospect development. Or are you talking about Timmins being unable to woo NCAA players to the AHL before they spend 2 years in the NCAA? That isn't his job.

I also like how you take away positive data out of the equation by saying "if it wasn't for the few late gems the Habs have drafted" just to try to prove your point. Might as well say, "If you take away anything positive Timmins has done you'll only see the negative like me!"

No, I'm talking aboot Timmins success rate with his NCAA love affair. I'm not suggesting its Timmins job to woo anybody anywhere, but he shopuld have enough sense not to spend 50% of picks on players who they have their rights for 8 years who are off to college for 4 years + will most likely need 1 year of AHL conditioning. The Habs will probably only have Leblanc for 3 years in Montreal, not to mention the other 11 NCAA picks they've wasted just in the last 4 drafts. Yeah. Gret job Timmins. Hows that not a complete waste of high picks?

Most NHL clubs draft players in the 1st rnd that make the NHL within 2 years. Timmins selects guys who might possibly make the team 6th years after they were drafted. i.e. 4 yrs NCAA + 1 yr AHL, yr 6, maybe a habs? Only 3 NCAA in the last 7 years have made the Habs. Its such a success strategy I can ssee why 50% of picks would NCAA guys. .

I also like how you take away positive data out of the equation by saying "if it wasn't for the few late gems the Habs have drafted" just to try to prove your point. Might as well say, "If you take away anything positive Timmins has done you'll only see the negative like me!"

Since 2005 only 1 1st rnd pick has played for the Habs so far. Since 2005 only 1 2nd rnd pick has played for the Habs so far. Since 2005 only 1 3rd rnd pick has played for the Habs so far. These 3 have only played 44 NHL games combined. Ya, thats right, only 3 out of 28, Timmins is the bestest ever. Wake up!!

PS Wyman is ECHL.

[thib46]

No, I'm comparing hockey idiots who apparently have close to 0 hockey sense.

Of all the NCAA guys Timmins has a hard on for, I can only name 3 who actually ever made the Habs team. Komi, Higgs, and Patches. He's picked over 20+ of them. Is that great results? I think not.

Wasting 50% on NCAA guys is useless. Timmins has around a 10% success rate on NCAA guys. Its true. :puke:

No, I'm talking aboot Timmins success rate with his NCAA love affair. I'm not suggesting its Timmins job to woo anybody anywhere, but he shopuld have enough sense not to spend 50% of picks on players who they have their rights for 8 years who are off to college for 4 years + will most likely need 1 year of AHL conditioning. The Habs will probably only have Leblanc for 3 years in Montreal, not to mention the other 11 NCAA picks they've wasted just in the last 4 drafts. Yeah. Gret job Timmins. Hows that not a complete waste of high picks?

Most NHL clubs draft players in the 1st rnd that make the NHL within 2 years. Timmins selects guys who might possibly make the team 6th years after they were drafted. i.e. 4 yrs NCAA + 1 yr AHL, yr 6, maybe a habs? Only 3 NCAA in the last 7 years have made the Habs. Its such a success strategy I can ssee why 50% of picks would NCAA guys. .

Since 2005 only 1 1st rnd pick has played for the Habs so far. Since 2005 only 1 2nd rnd pick has played for the Habs so far. Since 2005 only 1 3rd rnd pick has played for the Habs so far. These 3 have only played 44 NHL games combined. Ya, thats right, only 3 out of 28, Timmins is the bestest ever. Wake up!!

PS Wyman is ECHL.

I thought JT Wyman went back to Hamilton and played defense for the second half of the year, or is there another Wyman????

[dlbalr]

I thought JT Wyman went back to Hamilton and played defense for the second half of the year, or is there another Wyman????

You are correct, Wyman was a regular for the Bulldogs down the stretch this year, his versatility really came in handy.

[Fanpuck33]

Interesting thing I came across: We know that LeBlanc and Kristo played together at Omaha in the USHL. What you probably don't know, the son of former Hab Craig Ludwig, CJ, also played on the team.

[Habsfan]

Interesting thing I came across: We know that LeBlanc and Kristo played together at Omaha in the USHL. What you probably don't know, the son of former habs Craig Ludwig, CJ, also played on the team.

Interesting...very interesting! I wonder if he has the same hip checking ability his father had??;)

I don't think Timmins is the problem. he's done a realtively good job in drafting good prospects. The problem is when these kids enter the organization...i get the feeling that they aren't well prepared or taken care of by the team. Their development hasn't progressed.

[Sir_Boagalott]

Interesting...very interesting! I wonder if he has the same hip checking ability his father had??;)

I don't think Timmins is the problem. he's done a realtively good job in drafting good prospects. The problem is when these kids enter the organization...i get the feeling that they aren't well prepared or taken care of by the team. Their development hasn't progressed.

Technically it isnt Timmins per se, its all the NCAA picks he keeps taking. Timmins in several drafts has blown 50% of draft picks on NCAA guys. Its a waste. The Habs this year might have 2 NCAA guys, possibly 0. How many are in Hamilton? Not many considering theres been 20+ picks used on them.

"oh, but theres some good players that come out of the NCAA, like Cammy"

Exactly, let other teams be suckers and waste 4+ years on their prospects while they toil away in college and then sign them when they are UFAs. Plus theres an equal number of picks from Russia, Sweden, Quebec etc that pan out so why draft only in the Tri-State area when its a world wide draft?

So far not 1 of the Habs NCAA draft picks has panned out. Dont believe me? Wheres Komi? Oh ya. Wheres Higgs? They really worked out so well, and they werent even Timmins picks. Timmins has 0 NCAA picks that have worked out so far and Patches and O'Byrne are the only 2 who might.

Timmins was great at drafting late in the draft in the 7-9th rnds, but guess what? Theres no 8th or 9th rnd anymore so no more Halaks, Striets, S Kosts, etc. None of Timmins high NCAA picks have worked out.

Edited August 6, 2009 by Sir_Boagalott

[saskhab]

He didn't start his NCAA obsession until 2007, so of course there hasn't been much in terms of results yet. Sure, there were NCAA picks before then, but not that big of volume. He picked Fischer, O'Byrne, Wyman, Paquet and Gleed from 2003-06, but I doubt that those picks have failed us as a franchise.

Just because guys aren't Habs anymore doesn't mean it's the NCAA's or Timmins' fault. By the logic that Higgins, Komi, and McDonagh were bad picks because they aren't on the team anymore, the same goes for picking Saku Koivu, Jose Theodore, and Craig Rivet several years back. There are good picks that you eventually trade or let walk via free agency. That doesn't mean that Timmins is doing a piss poor job.

In 2007, he picked 5 guys from the NCAA pipeline: McDonagh, Pacioretty, Stejskal, Conboy, and Kishel. 1 has played in the NHL, 2 are now pro, and McDonagh has been flipped in the Gomez trade. All are still early in their development. The 4 picks that weren't from the NCAA were Subban, Fortier, Weber, and Torp. Pretty good batting percentage there, as Weber has already seen NHL time, while Subban and Fortier have both turned pro. Torp is a decent prospect in Sweden.

In 2008, he picked 3 out of 5 picks from the NCAA pipeline: Kristo, Quailer and Johnson. With no first rounders, this will be a crapshoot draft, but Kristo and Quailer had good years last year while Johnson (the final pick) was a bit kooky, that's for sure. That being said, his 2 picks from other leagues in Missiaen and Trunev are longshots as well. If 2 guys make the NHL in any form, this draft will be a huge success. If 1 guy ends up being a top 6 forward or top 4 D or starting goalie, this will be an enormous success.

In June, 4 out of the 8 picks were from the NCAA pipeline in Leblanc, Bennett (who could still go major junior), Walsh and Cichy. We'll see how this goes.

No doubt about it, Timmins has a bit of a crush on the NCAA pipeline. But I think it's a huge stretch to say it's failed us yet.... it only started 2 years ago!

[yorickbrown]

Interesting thing I came across: We know that LeBlanc and Kristo played together at Omaha in the USHL. What you probably don't know, the son of former habs Craig Ludwig, CJ, also played on the team.

Here's a link to an article where Craig Ludwig says good things about LeBlanc: http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=423360&...id=rss-mcgourty . (It's down towards the bottom of the article.)